Where can I buy cheap kero?

I'm in the process of buying a Chinese diesel heater, to heat my garage/
workshop,for which I understand - kero, or heating fuel is the cheapest
fuel to run it on and even better than diesel. Where might I be able to
source a gallon or two, initially, please?

Do you mean kerosine? If so its the same as paraffin and all DIY sheds
should stock it.

Harry Bloomfield Esq

2024-09-13 17:46:39 UTC

Post by Harry Bloomfield Esq
I'm in the process of buying a Chinese diesel heater, to heat my
garage/ workshop,for which I understand - kero, or heating fuel is the
cheapest fuel to run it on and even better than diesel. Where might I
be able to source a gallon or two, initially, please?

Do you mean kerosine? If so its the same as paraffin and all DIY sheds
should stock it.Yes, it is similar, but DIY sheds are a very expensive place to source it. Much more expensive, than simply buying diesel.

Yes, it is similar, but DIY sheds are a very expensive place to source
it. Much more expensive, than simply buying diesel.

The Natural Philosopher

2024-09-14 01:41:49 UTC

Do you mean kerosine? If so its the same as paraffin and all DIY sheds
should stock it.

No. He means kerosene

--
Civilization exists by geological consent, subject to change without notice.
– Will Durant

Andy Burns

2024-09-13 17:41:04 UTC

I'm in the process of buying a Chinese diesel heater, to heat my garage/
workshop,for which I understand - kero, or heating fuel is the cheapest
fuel to run it on and even better than diesel. Where might I be able to
source a gallon or two, initially, please?

For my Tilley lamp I got paraffin from a local garden centre, in a 4l
container, not especially cheap, but not the £15 B&Q or Amazon are
asking ...

Harry Bloomfield Esq

2024-09-13 17:51:51 UTC

Post by Andy Burns
For my Tilley lamp I got paraffin from a local garden centre, in a 4l
container, not especially cheap, but not the £15 B&Q or Amazon are
asking ...

Heating oil, is around 60p per litre, diesel around £1.40. I'm wondering
where I might source heating oil, in small quantities, at similar low
costs.

Theo

2024-09-13 19:06:25 UTC

Post by Andy Burns
For my Tilley lamp I got paraffin from a local garden centre, in a 4l
container, not especially cheap, but not the £15 B&Q or Amazon are
asking ...

Heating oil, is around 60p per litre, diesel around £1.40. I'm wondering
where I might source heating oil, in small quantities, at similar low
costs.

I think some rural petrol stations may sell it, but I haven't seen one
advertising it in a while. Deliveries are min 500 litres by law.

You can buy it online in cans but not especially cheap:
https://www.ryeoil.co.uk/shop/kerosene-heating-oil-20l-100l-or-200l/

but your local oil delivery company may have cans you can collect from their
depot.

Finally check FB/ebay/etc. When decommissioning my tank I sold 400 l in 25
litre jerry cans sourced from the local hand car wash (formerly containing
car shampoo)

Theo

Harry Bloomfield Esq

2024-09-13 21:21:06 UTC

Post by Theo
but your local oil delivery company may have cans you can collect from their
depot.
Finally check FB/ebay/etc. When decommissioning my tank I sold 400 l in 25
litre jerry cans sourced from the local hand car wash (formerly containing
car shampoo)

Thanks, some ideas there to try..

Theo

2024-09-13 23:19:09 UTC

Thanks, some ideas there to try..

You could also just find somebody who uses heating oil and offer to buy some
from their tank at some agreeable price. Take your own jerrycan and a
little electric pump (a tenner on ebay). Today's price for 500 litre
delivery from the local oil syndicate is 54p/litre - offer to pay over the
odds and everyone is happy.

Theo

David

2024-09-14 06:17:54 UTC

Thanks, some ideas there to try..

There is also Red Diesel - used by both farmers and the boating sectors.

Andy Burns

2024-09-14 07:05:08 UTC

Post by David
There is also Red Diesel - used by both farmers and the boating sectors.

The rules changed a couple of years ago, red diesel can no longer be
used in boats (except for heating and generators) or several other
traditional uses e.g. diggers on building sites ...

Chris Green

2024-09-14 07:52:16 UTC

Thanks, some ideas there to try..

There is also Red Diesel - used by both farmers and the boating sectors.

Now much more difficult to buy, especially in small quantities. The
rules were tightened up a couple of years ago. I used to use it in my
tractor and diesel mower but now, unless you are a commercial user
(i.e. actually a farmer) or in one or two other special cases it's not
allowed.

--
Chris Green
·

Marland

2024-09-15 14:19:42 UTC

Thanks, some ideas there to try..

There is also Red Diesel - used by both farmers and the boating sectors.

Our local garage still has a red diesel pump
If you are filling a can and using the fuel for a heater what rules are
being broken?
Its when you tip into a vehicle tank where you should be using white the
trouble starts.

GH

Chris Green

2024-09-15 18:18:50 UTC

Post by Marland

Thanks, some ideas there to try..

There is also Red Diesel - used by both farmers and the boating sectors.

Our local garage still has a red diesel pump

All the ones near us (around Ipswich, south Suffolk) have closed. We
used to be able to go to the local Morrisons and fill a few 20l cans
with diesel but no longer.

Post by Marland
If you are filling a can and using the fuel for a heater what rules are
being broken?

None, but heaters configured to use vehicle diesel as opposed to
heating fuel are unusual - as I discovered when we had the 'diesel'
boiler on our boat serviced and the engineer was really surprised that
it actually was set up to use [red] diesel.

Post by Marland
Its when you tip into a vehicle tank where you should be using white the
trouble starts.

That's what has been tightened up a lot, as a private user I used to
be able to use red diesel in my tractor and diesel mower but that is
no longer allowed. There's very few legal vehicle uses for red diesel
now, just businesses whose vehicles are 100% off road like farmers and
some contractors.

Using red diesel for heating is OK but pretty pointless, heating fuel
is just as cheap, if not cheaper.

--
Chris Green
·

Theo

2024-09-15 20:40:02 UTC

Post by Chris Green
None, but heaters configured to use vehicle diesel as opposed to
heating fuel are unusual - as I discovered when we had the 'diesel'
boiler on our boat serviced and the engineer was really surprised that
it actually was set up to use [red] diesel.

They're not uncommon for campervans and similar - if you already have a
diesel tank for the engine you just add a tee in the fuel line to the
heater. There are some Chinese ones which seem basic but decent enough.

Quite surprised that doesn't apply to boats too - or do you need a
sufficient amount of heat (all winter) that it's cheaper to fill a separate
tank? For seaworthy boats there's diesel in every port but not sure about
kerosene (unless they fuel gas turbines?)

Theo

Chris Green

2024-09-16 06:31:22 UTC

I guess that makes sense.

Post by Theo
Quite surprised that doesn't apply to boats too - or do you need a
sufficient amount of heat (all winter) that it's cheaper to fill a separate
tank? For seaworthy boats there's diesel in every port but not sure about
kerosene (unless they fuel gas turbines?)

The boat in question had a standard domestic oil fired CH boiler, it
had the jets adjusted to work with diesel engine fuel rather than
heating oil.

Red diesel is no longer allowed to be used for making your boat go
along. In most of mainland Europe you **have** to have a separate
tank if you want to used un-road-taxed fuel for heating. In the UK
you can still declare what portion of the fuel in your tank is being
used for heating and how much for going along. This is very open to
abuse of course so i don't know how much longer it will last.

--
Chris Green
·

SteveW

2024-09-16 08:15:30 UTC

I guess that makes sense.

The boat in question had a standard domestic oil fired CH boiler, it
had the jets adjusted to work with diesel engine fuel rather than
heating oil.
Red diesel is no longer allowed to be used for making your boat go
along. In most of mainland Europe you **have** to have a separate
tank if you want to used un-road-taxed fuel for heating. In the UK
you can still declare what portion of the fuel in your tank is being
used for heating and how much for going along. This is very open to
abuse of course so i don't know how much longer it will last.

Is it much more open to abuse than a separate tank? Surely it is easy to
use a portable pump to transfer from one tank to the other anyway?

Chris Green

2024-09-16 09:53:44 UTC

I guess that makes sense.

The boat in question had a standard domestic oil fired CH boiler, it
had the jets adjusted to work with diesel engine fuel rather than
heating oil.
Red diesel is no longer allowed to be used for making your boat go
along. In most of mainland Europe you **have** to have a separate
tank if you want to used un-road-taxed fuel for heating. In the UK
you can still declare what portion of the fuel in your tank is being
used for heating and how much for going along. This is very open to
abuse of course so i don't know how much longer it will last.

Is it much more open to abuse than a separate tank? Surely it is easy to
use a portable pump to transfer from one tank to the other anyway?

You'd have red dye in your engine diesel, easily detected.

--
Chris Green
·

SteveW

2024-09-17 08:32:29 UTC

I guess that makes sense.

The boat in question had a standard domestic oil fired CH boiler, it
had the jets adjusted to work with diesel engine fuel rather than
heating oil.
Red diesel is no longer allowed to be used for making your boat go
along. In most of mainland Europe you **have** to have a separate
tank if you want to used un-road-taxed fuel for heating. In the UK
you can still declare what portion of the fuel in your tank is being
used for heating and how much for going along. This is very open to
abuse of course so i don't know how much longer it will last.

Is it much more open to abuse than a separate tank? Surely it is easy to
use a portable pump to transfer from one tank to the other anyway?

You'd have red dye in your engine diesel, easily detected.

Is it still dyed? Don't boatyards only have a single pump and just apply
duty to filling the engine tank? Or proportion it to heating and engine,
when there is only one tank.

Even with two and with red dye, it would hardly be difficult to have a
hidden valve to switch to running the engine off the heating tank, which
appears to only be connected to the heating.

Fredxx

2024-09-17 20:45:45 UTC

I guess that makes sense.

Post by Theo
Quite surprised that doesn't apply to boats too - or do you need a
sufficient amount of heat (all winter) that it's cheaper to fill a separate
tank? For seaworthy boats there's diesel in every port but not
sure about
kerosene (unless they fuel gas turbines?)

The boat in question had a standard domestic oil fired CH boiler, it
had the jets adjusted to work with diesel engine fuel rather than
heating oil.
Red diesel is no longer allowed to be used for making your boat go
along. In most of mainland Europe you **have** to have a separate
tank if you want to used un-road-taxed fuel for heating. In the UK
you can still declare what portion of the fuel in your tank is being
used for heating and how much for going along. This is very open to
abuse of course so i don't know how much longer it will last.

Is it much more open to abuse than a separate tank? Surely it is easy to
use a portable pump to transfer from one tank to the other anyway?

You'd have red dye in your engine diesel, easily detected.

Is it still dyed? Don't boatyards only have a single pump and just apply
duty to filling the engine tank? Or proportion it to heating and engine,
when there is only one tank.

Correct. Some boatyards specify the proportion, others ask the customer.
It's all recorded. Fuel is also allowed for electrical generation with
the main engine. Most splits are 25/75% propulsion/heating etc, or 50/50.

Post by SteveW
Even with two and with red dye, it would hardly be difficult to have a
hidden valve to switch to running the engine off the heating tank, which
appears to only be connected to the heating.

I've never seen an inland boat with two tanks. No need for sea going
vessels.

Theo

2024-09-16 10:08:29 UTC

Post by Chris Green
The boat in question had a standard domestic oil fired CH boiler, it
had the jets adjusted to work with diesel engine fuel rather than
heating oil.

Is this just for hot water, or do you use it for heating as well?

Most diesel heaters I've seen output hot air, not hot water. I'd have
thought having the usual CH setup (pipes, radiators, pump etc) would be
awkward in the cramped spaces of a boat?

Thinking about it, I'm not sure how it works on (small) sailing yachts. Do
they just take off cooling water from the engine and recirc that for heat
before dumping it in the sea? Means you have to run the big engine for heat
which may not be economical or comfortable overnight. I suppose you
probably have diesel cabin heaters as well?

Theo

wasbit

2024-09-16 09:05:19 UTC

They're not uncommon for campervans and similar - if you already have a
diesel tank for the engine you just add a tee in the fuel line to the
heater. There are some Chinese ones which seem basic but decent enough.
Quite surprised that doesn't apply to boats too - or do you need a
sufficient amount of heat (all winter) that it's cheaper to fill a separate
tank? For seaworthy boats there's diesel in every port but not sure about
kerosene (unless they fuel gas turbines?)

I have a wood burning stove in my shed which is ideal if I'm out there
all day. However the diesel heater comes into its own when only needed
for short periods.
They are relatively cheap to buy & economical to run (even at pump prices).

Self contained unit
-
https://www.amazon.co.uk/Jacgood-5000W-8000W-Parking-5KW-8KW-Trailers/dp/B0BLYWFKTV

2 caveats
- it must exhaust to the outside
- it requires a hefty (IIRC) 15a 12v supply. eg
-
https://www.amazon.co.uk/inShareplus-Universal-Regulated-Switching-Transformer/dp/B08QS1KDQ8

--
Regards
wasbit

Marland

2024-09-18 08:38:54 UTC

Post by Marland

Thanks, some ideas there to try..

There is also Red Diesel - used by both farmers and the boating sectors.

Our local garage still has a red diesel pump

All the ones near us (around Ipswich, south Suffolk) have closed. We
used to be able to go to the local Morrisons and fill a few 20l cans
with diesel but no longer.

Post by Marland
If you are filling a can and using the fuel for a heater what rules are
being broken?

Post by Marland
Its when you tip into a vehicle tank where you should be using white the
trouble starts.

Even 100% off road isn’t good enough to be sure you can use red, a near
neighbour runs a wood yard behind the aforementioned garage and is within
100ft of the red diesel pump accessed via his and the garages land. He no
longer can use Red in his forklift as although he sources and fells timber
which would count as forestry which is allowed to use it once it it is in
the yard and turned into kiln dried logs ,fence posts and sold alongside
manufactured products made by himself and bought in it has become a retail
operation so isn’t amongst those that are allowed to use red.

GH

Harry Bloomfield Esq

2024-09-19 20:55:21 UTC

The only differences between red, and white diesel, is that red has a
dye included to identify it, and you pay more tax - both work absolutely
the same in an engine, or a burner.

Chris Green

2024-09-20 07:08:06 UTC

The only differences between red, and white diesel, is that red has a
dye included to identify it, and you pay more tax - both work absolutely
the same in an engine, or a burner.

No, heating oil is slightly 'heavier' (I think it's that way round)
than red (or not) diesel for engines. Hence the (small) change
required in the jetting of a boiler to use vehicle/red diesel.

--
Chris Green
·

The Natural Philosopher

2024-09-20 08:11:33 UTC

The only differences between red, and white diesel, is that red has a
dye included to identify it, and you pay more tax - both work absolutely
the same in an engine, or a burner.

I thought there were slightly more additives in road diesel, but yes,
broadly the same.
Kerosene is slightly different as is Jet-A and friends (JP-8)

I remember always thinking how airports smelt slightly of paraffin, and
the old diesel tractors of my youth smelt way different to the diesels
of today.

All of these products are fine-tuned to their intended use. After a
horrendous experience last year with my AGA sooting up, I now buy
premium kerosene home heating oil. The oil boiler was fine on the sooty
muck, but the AGA was not.

--
The theory of Communism may be summed up in one sentence: Abolish all
private property.

Karl Marx

The Natural Philosopher

2024-09-14 01:43:34 UTC