Shared downpipe and ownership of sewer

[Mathew Newton]

We live in semi-detached house with an inspection chamber for the rainwater sewer at the end of the garden with two inputs and one output.

The two inputs are fed by underground pipes from the rear of our house; the first is fed by the downpipe from the garage roof and the second fed by the downpipe from the main house roof.

The guttering from the adjoining semi connects to ours and thus also feeds into this second downpipe so, as far as ownership and responsibility are concerned, does this mean that the underground pipe to the inspection chamber is considered a public sewer by virtue of it serving more than one property? There are no underground connections from elsewhere.

The context of the question is that we are currently planning an extension to the rear of the house which will be within 3m of this underground pipe and therefore, if public, will require approval from the water authority and associated fees, inspections, etc.

Mathew

[Mathew Newton]

On Monday, 7 April 2014 19:32:03 UTC+1, Mathew Newton wrote:

<snip>

They say a picture is worth a thousand words so in case my first post was all a bit much here's a diagram:

Loading Image...

Our property is the red one in the middle and the grey lines are the guttering and downpipes. The underground pipe of interest is the blue one, but I suppose the question is equally applicable to the pink one too given the shared garage guttering.

The proposed extension will occupy the same footprint as the existing conservatory.

[djc]

Post by Mathew Newton
<snip>
http://www.newtonnet.co.uk/permanent/Drainage.gif
Our property is the red one in the middle and the grey lines are the guttering and downpipes. The underground pipe of interest is the blue one, but I suppose the question is equally applicable to the pink one too given the shared garage guttering.
The proposed extension will occupy the same footprint as the existing conservatory.

I don't think the shared guttering makes this a shared sewer. From your
diagram it looks to me as though the only shared part is the bit at the
bottom of the garden from the black blob (inspection cover) which runs
into the next door garden. So I would say the pink/blue lines are just
yours. I think this is a case where its best not to trouble authority,
they will only make trouble for you.

[nemo]

Post by Mathew Newton
<snip>
http://www.newtonnet.co.uk/permanent/Drainage.gif
Our property is the red one in the middle and the grey lines are the guttering and downpipes. The underground pipe of interest is the blue one, but I suppose the question is equally applicable to the pink one too given the shared garage guttering.
The proposed extension will occupy the same footprint as the existing conservatory.

My supply company publishes this guidance:
<http://www.unitedutilities.com/sewers-and-drains-explained.aspx>

The wording "What you're responsible for – the pipes, gutters and drains
in and around your home, including the drains from your property up to
your boundary..."
... implies that it is your responsibility because it doesn't cross your
property boundary.

[PeterL]

Post by Mathew Newton
<snip>
http://www.newtonnet.co.uk/permanent/Drainage.gif
Our property is the red one in the middle and the grey lines are the guttering and downpipes. The underground pipe of interest is the blue one, but I suppose the question is equally applicable to the pink one too given the shared garage guttering.
The proposed extension will occupy the same footprint as the existing conservatory.

Mathew, I'm inclined to agree with you that the drain serves 2
properties and, that being the case, the drains are invested with the
sewerage undertaker. For some pointers:

- download this document
(http://sfa.wrcplc.co.uk/small-developments-version.aspx) and take a
look at the definitions of adopted drains / sewers

- navigate across to your sewerage undertakers website to see what
advice they give

- when you make your Building Regulations application for the extension,
the first thing the LABC (or private Building Control provider) will do,
is carry out their own search

[Peter Crosland]

Post by Mathew Newton
We live in semi-detached house with an inspection chamber for the rainwater sewer at the end of the garden with two inputs and one output.
The two inputs are fed by underground pipes from the rear of our house; the first is fed by the downpipe from the garage roof and the second fed by the downpipe from the main house roof.
The guttering from the adjoining semi connects to ours and thus also feeds into this second downpipe so, as far as ownership and responsibility are concerned, does this mean that the underground pipe to the inspection chamber is considered a public sewer by virtue of it serving more than one property? There are no underground connections from elsewhere.
The context of the question is that we are currently planning an extension to the rear of the house which will be within 3m of this underground pipe and therefore, if public, will require approval from the water authority and associated fees, inspections, etc.

Storm drainage is not a sewer. So there should not be a problem.

[Mathew Newton]

Thanks for the comments everyone. I am pleased to hear a general consensus that it's not a shared sewer.

Post by Peter Crosland
Storm drainage is not a sewer. So there should not be a problem.

I am intrigued by this reasoning - can you elaborate?

Of all the literature I've read I've not seen mention of 'storm drainage', only 'surface water sewers' and 'foul sewers'. The definition of 'drain' seems to be related to pipework that connects property to one of the aforementioned sewers, but that this drain is itself considered a sewer if it has more than one property connecting in to it.

Mathew

[harryagain]

"Mathew Newton" <***@googlemail.com> wrote in message news:90c62b47-b9f0-41b9-b6c2-***@googlegroups.com...
Thanks for the comments everyone. I am pleased to hear a general consensus
that it's not a shared sewer.

Post by Peter Crosland
Storm drainage is not a sewer. So there should not be a problem.

I am intrigued by this reasoning - can you elaborate?

Of all the literature I've read I've not seen mention of 'storm drainage',
only 'surface water sewers' and 'foul sewers'. The definition of 'drain'
seems to be related to pipework that connects property to one of the
aforementioned sewers, but that this drain is itself considered a sewer if
it has more than one property connecting in to it.

Mathew

It is just a matter of terminology which has changed over the
years/locality.
Sewers/foulwater have shit/other waste in them.
The other ones have rainwater only.

Every generation like to invent fancy new wards.

[harryagain]

"Mathew Newton" <***@googlemail.com> wrote in message news:97bee196-db81-4fc0-9d3d-***@googlegroups.com...
We live in semi-detached house with an inspection chamber for the rainwater
sewer at the end of the garden with two inputs and one output.

The two inputs are fed by underground pipes from the rear of our house; the
first is fed by the downpipe from the garage roof and the second fed by the
downpipe from the main house roof.

The guttering from the adjoining semi connects to ours and thus also feeds
into this second downpipe so, as far as ownership and responsibility are
concerned, does this mean that the underground pipe to the inspection
chamber is considered a public sewer by virtue of it serving more than one
property? There are no underground connections from elsewhere.

The context of the question is that we are currently planning an extension
to the rear of the house which will be within 3m of this underground pipe
and therefore, if public, will require approval from the water authority and
associated fees, inspections, etc.

Mathew
Don't tell the f****rs. The less they know the better.
The whole system is set up to part you and your money.
If it isn't their business, the will make it so.
No useful benefit to yourself.
But not a good idea to put any new building on top of an old drain anyway.
New (plastic) drains are a different matter.

You will likely find that if it is a separate drain for surface water, it is
not connected to the sewer.
Likely goes to a local watercourse. Surface water going into sewers causes
big problems.

[Mathew Newton]

Post by Mathew Newton
Mathew
Don't tell the f****rs. The less they know the better.
The whole system is set up to part you and your money.
If it isn't their business, the will make it so.
No useful benefit to yourself.

He he. Don't beat around the bush Harry! ;-)

Post by Mathew Newton
But not a good idea to put any new building on top of an old drain anyway.
New (plastic) drains are a different matter.

Yeah, they're all new plastic drains here (built 2007).

What I am likely to do is to remove the section of blue pipe to the side of the extension and divert the house downpipe round to feed in to the extension downpipe (if that makes sense?). Then there'll be no building-over whatsoever and much easier access to the drains. Everyone's happy.