Electric Vehicles

[Jeff Gaines]

Following the recent discussion in here I have started exploring EVs.
Price comparisons:

Kia Picanto £15,845 to £18,695 - PETROL

Renault 5 eTech £23,000 to £27,000

Fiat Grande Panda Electric £20,975

Citroen e-C3 £21,990

My 1983 built bungalow has an Austin A40 size garage, the A40 was 1,511 mm
wide from what I can discover, I want something that will fit in it.

My motoring is limited to doctor, dentist, optician, pharmacist, all
within 15 miles but I need my own transport so I can get out if I need to*.

The cheapest small EV is about £4K more than the most expensive petrol
Picanto. I m 77 so probably limited payback period, what do I get for my
extra money?


* There was a question about buses on our local Facebook group recently,
looks like one a week to a couple of local destinations, return following
week.

[Scott]

Post by Jeff Gaines
Following the recent discussion in here I have started exploring EVs.
Kia Picanto £15,845 to £18,695 - PETROL
Renault 5 eTech £23,000 to £27,000
Fiat Grande Panda Electric £20,975
Citroen e-C3 £21,990
My 1983 built bungalow has an Austin A40 size garage, the A40 was 1,511 mm
wide from what I can discover, I want something that will fit in it.
My motoring is limited to doctor, dentist, optician, pharmacist, all
within 15 miles but I need my own transport so I can get out if I need to*.
The cheapest small EV is about £4K more than the most expensive petrol
Picanto. I m 77 so probably limited payback period, what do I get for my
extra money?

I suspect the reality is that you get the 'feelgood factor' of
contributing to the environmental cause and the sense of adventure in
trying something new. I am looking for an EV but mine seems to be
caught up in a geopolitical intrigue.

I am looking at the electric Micra (which is retro style based on my
existing Micra K14). I understand it is/was due to be built by Renault
in France as a joint venture with Nissan. However, reports suggest
that the Nissan Renault partnership has ended and Nissan has fallen
out with the French government. Meantime, Nissan and Honda entered
talks about a possible merger, but Nissan has walked out as Honda
wanted Nissan to be a subsidiary, not a true merger. Maybe they need
Mr Trump to chair the negotiation! To confuse matters further, the
former Nissan CEO allegedly embezzled money from Nissan, an arrest
warrant was granted in Japan and he arranged to be airfreighted in a
double bass case to a country with no extradition treaty (allegedly)
to live in a Nissan house he bought while CEO. Is there any realistic
prospect of this vehicle being built in the near future?

[Scott]

On Wed, 19 Feb 2025 10:17:18 +0000, Scott
<***@gefion.myzen.co.uk> wrote:
[snip]

Post by Scott
I am looking at the electric Micra (which is retro style based on my
existing Micra K14). I understand it is/was due to be built by Renault
in France as a joint venture with Nissan. However, reports suggest
that the Nissan Renault partnership has ended and Nissan has fallen
out with the French government. Meantime, Nissan and Honda entered
talks about a possible merger, but Nissan has walked out as Honda
wanted Nissan to be a subsidiary, not a true merger. Maybe they need
Mr Trump to chair the negotiation! To confuse matters further, the
former Nissan CEO allegedly embezzled money from Nissan, an arrest
warrant was granted in Japan and he arranged to be airfreighted in a
double bass case to a country with no extradition treaty (allegedly)
to live in a Nissan house he bought while CEO. Is there any realistic
prospect of this vehicle being built in the near future?

Now in the latest twist Honda may be willing to continue talks if the
Nissan CEO steps down. Very Trumpian.

https://www.msn.com/en-gb/cars/news/the-honda-nissan-merger-isn-t-completely-dead-yet/ar-AA1ziphs?ocid=winp2fptaskbarhover&cvid=dd736fe34da54c7c81919023343a2dc2&ei=22
Last year’s Honda-Nissan merger deal quickly fizzled in early 2025.
Talks between the two companies ended last week as the pair clashed
over the direction of the merger. An eventual tie-up between Nissan
and Honda might not be entirely out of the question, though.

A new Financial Times report, citing “people with knowledge of the
deliberations,” says Honda is open to resuming merger discussions with
Nissan if its CEO, Makoto Uchida, steps down. And Honda might get its
wish.

[Jeff Layman]

Post by Jeff Gaines
Following the recent discussion in here I have started exploring EVs.
Kia Picanto £15,845 to £18,695 - PETROL
Renault 5 eTech £23,000 to £27,000
Fiat Grande Panda Electric £20,975
Citroen e-C3 £21,990
My 1983 built bungalow has an Austin A40 size garage, the A40 was 1,511 mm
wide from what I can discover, I want something that will fit in it.
My motoring is limited to doctor, dentist, optician, pharmacist, all
within 15 miles but I need my own transport so I can get out if I need to*.
The cheapest small EV is about £4K more than the most expensive petrol
Picanto. I m 77 so probably limited payback period, what do I get for my
extra money?
* There was a question about buses on our local Facebook group recently,
looks like one a week to a couple of local destinations, return following
week.

I guess it depends on how much you value your independence. Don't forget
that you'll have to add insurance to the cost of the EV, and no doubt
road tax in the not-too-distant future. Also add - eventually -
servicing costs and MOT.

What would it cost to get a taxi to take you to the 15 miles and back?
If you assume it's £100 return (I had no idea but just checked a 2 x 16
mile - ie return journey - at <https://www.taxipricecompare.co.uk/>. The
cheapest was £98 for up to 3 passengers). You could probably do five
return journeys for the cost of a year's insurance alone. Add the cost
of the car's annual depreciation value and you should be able to get
some sort of comparison.

[Spike]

Post by Jeff Gaines
Following the recent discussion in here I have started exploring EVs.
Kia Picanto £15,845 to £18,695 - PETROL
Renault 5 eTech £23,000 to £27,000
Fiat Grande Panda Electric £20,975
Citroen e-C3 £21,990
My 1983 built bungalow has an Austin A40 size garage, the A40 was 1,511 mm
wide from what I can discover, I want something that will fit in it.
My motoring is limited to doctor, dentist, optician, pharmacist, all
within 15 miles but I need my own transport so I can get out if I need to*.
The cheapest small EV is about £4K more than the most expensive petrol
Picanto. I m 77 so probably limited payback period, what do I get for my
extra money?

Have you considered a 2- to 4-year old VW e-ep!?

These will have the 36kWh battery and a range of goodies, from about £11k.
The battery capacity should easily be enough for you to do the return trip
in winter (heaters, headlights, wipers, six-speaker stereo all going).

For £20 VW can offer a collect-and-deliver service for servicing and MoT,
so that saves a lot of hassle.

Downside is said to be ‘dated’ display and the crude phone cradle; I don’t
know if any vital info or controls
are via the phone.

I believe they have a max 7kW AC input, but given your limited use charging
at home from a 10A supply will keep the battery topped up between trips.

It’s said there’s an app that lets you defrost the car and heat the
interior ready for when you want to go out, or cool it on a summer’s day.

A review here:

<https://www.topgear.com/car-reviews/volkswagen/e>

[Scott]

Post by Spike

Post by Jeff Gaines
Following the recent discussion in here I have started exploring EVs.
Kia Picanto £15,845 to £18,695 - PETROL
Renault 5 eTech £23,000 to £27,000
Fiat Grande Panda Electric £20,975
Citroen e-C3 £21,990
My 1983 built bungalow has an Austin A40 size garage, the A40 was 1,511 mm
wide from what I can discover, I want something that will fit in it.
My motoring is limited to doctor, dentist, optician, pharmacist, all
within 15 miles but I need my own transport so I can get out if I need to*.
The cheapest small EV is about £4K more than the most expensive petrol
Picanto. I m 77 so probably limited payback period, what do I get for my
extra money?

Have you considered a 2- to 4-year old VW e-ep!?
These will have the 36kWh battery and a range of goodies, from about £11k.
The battery capacity should easily be enough for you to do the return trip
in winter (heaters, headlights, wipers, six-speaker stereo all going).
For £20 VW can offer a collect-and-deliver service for servicing and MoT,
so that saves a lot of hassle.
Downside is said to be ‘dated’ display and the crude phone cradle; I don’t
know if any vital info or controls
are via the phone.
I believe they have a max 7kW AC input, but given your limited use charging
at home from a 10A supply will keep the battery topped up between trips.
It’s said there’s an app that lets you defrost the car and heat the
interior ready for when you want to go out, or cool it on a summer’s day.
<https://www.topgear.com/car-reviews/volkswagen/e>

I am surprised there does not seem to be any market for refurbising
EVs in the way that trains can have a mid-life refurbishment.

[Max Demian]

Post by Jeff Gaines
Following the recent discussion in here I have started exploring EVs.
Kia Picanto £15,845 to £18,695 - PETROL
Renault 5 eTech £23,000 to £27,000
Fiat Grande Panda Electric £20,975
Citroen e-C3 £21,990

https://www.citroen.co.uk/ami £7,695 OTR

[Andy Burns]

Post by Max Demian

Post by Jeff Gaines
Citroen e-C3 £21,990

https://www.citroen.co.uk/ami £7,695 OTR

First UK Ami buyer

Game over two years later

[Andrew]

Post by Jeff Gaines
* There was a question about buses on our local Facebook group recently,
looks like one a week to a couple of local destinations, return
following week.

You moved there fairly 'recently'. Did you not check out
bus routes and railway lines first ?.

When you get to a certain age, the ability, ease, and cost
of getting to and from decent shops and NHS facilities
should be top of your list when looking at somewhere new
to move to.

[Jeff Gaines]

Post by Andrew

Post by Jeff Gaines
* There was a question about buses on our local Facebook group recently,
looks like one a week to a couple of local destinations, return following
week.

You moved there fairly 'recently'. Did you not check out
bus routes and railway lines first ?.

No, don't use them.

Post by Andrew
When you get to a certain age, the ability, ease, and cost
of getting to and from decent shops and NHS facilities
should be top of your list when looking at somewhere new
to move to.

How on earth do you know what should be at the top of my list?

[Dave W]

Post by Jeff Gaines

Post by Andrew

Post by Jeff Gaines
* There was a question about buses on our local Facebook group recently,
looks like one a week to a couple of local destinations, return following
week.

You moved there fairly 'recently'. Did you not check out
bus routes and railway lines first ?.

No, don't use them.

Why not

[The Natural Philosopher]

Post by Jeff Gaines

Post by Andrew

Post by Jeff Gaines
* There was a question about buses on our local Facebook group recently,
looks like one a week to a couple of local destinations, return following
week.

You moved there fairly 'recently'. Did you not check out
bus routes and railway lines first ?.

No, don't use them.

Why not? Have you something against them?

In my case the fact that they are simply not there has a large deal to
do with it

[Andy Burns]

Post by Jeff Gaines

Post by Andrew
You moved there fairly 'recently'. Did you not check out
bus routes and railway lines first ?.

No, don't use them.

Why not? Have you something against them?

Journeys involving buses and trains end up taking /much/ longer

[SteveW]

Post by Andy Burns

Post by Jeff Gaines

Post by Andrew
You moved there fairly 'recently'. Did you not check out
bus routes and railway lines first ?.

No, don't use them.

Why not? Have you something against them?

Journeys involving buses and trains end up taking /much/ longer

Yes. My journey to a previous workplace took 20 minutes by car, but an
hour by bus - and then you've got to add on up to half an hour each way,
because the bus doesn't arrive or leave in line with your start of
finish times.

[Andrew]

Post by SteveW

Post by Andy Burns

Post by Jeff Gaines

Post by Andrew
You moved there fairly 'recently'. Did you not check out
bus routes and railway lines first ?.

No, don't use them.

Why not? Have you something against them?

Journeys involving buses and trains end up taking /much/ longer

Yes. My journey to a previous workplace took 20 minutes by car, but an
hour by bus - and then you've got to add on up to half an hour each way,
because the bus doesn't arrive or leave in line with your start of
finish times.

Nothing. For 30+ years I spent anything from 3 hours to 4.5 hours every
day commuting from Sussex up to Croydon or the City of London or KingsX
or Hammersmith.

[SteveW]

Post by Andrew

Post by SteveW

Post by Andy Burns

Post by Jeff Gaines

Post by Andrew
You moved there fairly 'recently'. Did you not check out
bus routes and railway lines first ?.

No, don't use them.

Why not? Have you something against them?

Journeys involving buses and trains end up taking /much/ longer

Yes. My journey to a previous workplace took 20 minutes by car, but an
hour by bus - and then you've got to add on up to half an hour each
way, because the bus doesn't arrive or leave in line with your start
of finish times.

Nothing. For 30+ years I spent anything from 3 hours to 4.5 hours every
day commuting from Sussex up to Croydon or the City of London or KingsX
or Hammersmith.

But most people don't want to live life like that. With a disabled wife
and three children, I value my time too much to spend large parts of it
commuting.

[Andrew]

Post by SteveW

Post by Andrew

Post by SteveW

Post by Andy Burns

Post by Jeff Gaines

Post by Andrew
You moved there fairly 'recently'. Did you not check out
bus routes and railway lines first ?.

No, don't use them.

Why not? Have you something against them?

Journeys involving buses and trains end up taking /much/ longer

Yes. My journey to a previous workplace took 20 minutes by car, but
an hour by bus - and then you've got to add on up to half an hour
each way, because the bus doesn't arrive or leave in line with your
start of finish times.

Nothing. For 30+ years I spent anything from 3 hours to 4.5 hours every
day commuting from Sussex up to Croydon or the City of London or KingsX
or Hammersmith.

But most people don't want to live life like that. With a disabled wife
and three children, I value my time too much to spend large parts of it
commuting.

It's where much of the more lucrative IT contractor work is/was.
Getting to places in Surrey, Sussex and Kent for less money involves
a pretty awful daily commute by car. The traffic in the South East
is horrendous. At least I could read or snooze on the train up to
London Bridge or Victoria.

[Tim Streater]

The traffic in the South East is horrendous.

Thass because the South East is, as my old Dad used to say, packed out to beat
Hell.

[alan_m]

Post by Andrew

Post by SteveW

Post by Andy Burns

Post by Jeff Gaines

Post by Andrew
You moved there fairly 'recently'. Did you not check out
bus routes and railway lines first ?.

No, don't use them.

Why not? Have you something against them?

Journeys involving buses and trains end up taking /much/ longer

Yes. My journey to a previous workplace took 20 minutes by car, but an
hour by bus - and then you've got to add on up to half an hour each
way, because the bus doesn't arrive or leave in line with your start
of finish times.

Nothing. For 30+ years I spent anything from 3 hours to 4.5 hours every
day commuting from Sussex up to Croydon or the City of London or KingsX
or Hammersmith.

Fairly early in my career I decided that I wasn't going to commute 30
miles each way to work taking total of 1.75 hours a good traffic day to
3+ hours on a bad traffic day, by car.

I ended up living around 14 miles away from my place of work with the
(round) journey taking an hour on a good traffic day and twice as long
on a bad traffic day. The travelling times got longer the more years I
did it, partly due to the increase in traffic but mainly due to the
constant road improvements designed to cut journey times which in fact
did the opposite. Since I retired many of these road improvements have
been adjusted, with 3 months of lane closures, to improve them :)

I had the option of doing the 14 mile journey by bus or by train and
bus. The train bus option would have taken around 2 hours each way and
would have included 30 minutes of walking. The bus option was around 2
hours each way mainly because the route wasn't direct, wandering through
various A and B side roads with multiple bus stops.

[Andrew]

Post by alan_m

Post by Andrew

Post by SteveW

Post by Andy Burns

Post by Jeff Gaines

Post by Andrew
You moved there fairly 'recently'. Did you not check out
bus routes and railway lines first ?.

No, don't use them.

Why not? Have you something against them?

Journeys involving buses and trains end up taking /much/ longer

Yes. My journey to a previous workplace took 20 minutes by car, but
an hour by bus - and then you've got to add on up to half an hour
each way, because the bus doesn't arrive or leave in line with your
start of finish times.

Nothing. For 30+ years I spent anything from 3 hours to 4.5 hours every
day commuting from Sussex up to Croydon or the City of London or KingsX
or Hammersmith.

Fairly early in my career I decided that I wasn't going to commute 30
miles each way to work taking  total of 1.75 hours a good traffic day to
3+ hours on a bad traffic day, by car.
I ended up living around 14 miles away from my place of work with the
(round) journey taking an hour on a good traffic day and twice as long
on a bad traffic day. The travelling times got longer the more years I
did it, partly due to the increase in traffic but mainly due to the
constant road improvements designed to cut journey times which in fact
did the opposite. Since I retired many of these road improvements have
been adjusted, with 3 months of lane closures, to improve them :)
I had the option of doing the 14 mile journey by bus or by train and
bus.  The train bus option would have taken around 2 hours each way and
would have included 30 minutes of walking.  The bus option was around 2
hours each way mainly because the route wasn't direct, wandering through
various A and B side roads with multiple bus stops.

I actually chose the village where I have been since 1978 because
it had a mainline station allowing 'easy' access to London or the
South Coast.

Annoyingly, even back in 1983 it was 1Hr 10mins to Victoria (station
to station).
Today with all the manual signal boxes replaced by computers the
fastest time to Victoria before 9AM is 1Hr 20Mins. After then, add
another 10 mins.

In 1983 there were two fast trains out of London Bridge to Bognor
complete with dining cars in the early evening.
Now all gone (dining cars and fast services).

[Scott]

Post by Andy Burns

Post by Jeff Gaines

Post by Andrew
You moved there fairly 'recently'. Did you not check out
bus routes and railway lines first ?.

No, don't use them.

Why not? Have you something against them?

Journeys involving buses and trains end up taking /much/ longer

Yes, but of course the counter-argument is that the time can be spent
productively.

[Tim Streater]

Post by Andy Burns

Post by Jeff Gaines

Post by Andrew
You moved there fairly 'recently'. Did you not check out
bus routes and railway lines first ?.

No, don't use them.

Why not? Have you something against them?

Journeys involving buses and trains end up taking /much/ longer

Not necessarily. Train from Wye to Paddock Wood a lot quicker than I can drive
it.

[Jeff Layman]

Post by Andy Burns

Post by Jeff Gaines

Post by Andrew
You moved there fairly 'recently'. Did you not check out
bus routes and railway lines first ?.

No, don't use them.

Why not? Have you something against them?

Journeys involving buses and trains end up taking /much/ longer

That depends. If you're going into a city with dedicated bus lanes it
can be pretty quick. Also you've got to find a parking space, which
could be a challenge at busy times. Add to that the cost of parking (and
a small amount for fuel), and if you've a free bus pass the difference
can buy at least a couple of coffees.

[Andy Burns]

Post by Jeff Layman

Post by Andy Burns
Journeys involving buses and trains end up taking /much/ longer

That depends. If you're going into a city with dedicated bus lanes it
can be pretty quick.

It's two buses (which inconveniently arrive at, and depart from separate
bus stations) to get to the railway station.

I could take a taxi (which can use the same bus lanes) to the main
railway station, then I don't need to pay to park.

Post by Jeff Layman
Also you've got to find a parking space, which
could be a challenge at busy times.

I can drive to a smaller railway station, parking is cheap enough and
not over crowded, and it only adds a quid or so to the main rail fare,
but then not every train on the return journey stops where my car now
is, so use the bus on the return, and have to get a taxi to collect car
in the morning.

Post by Jeff Layman
Add to that the cost of parking (and
a small amount for fuel), and if you've a free bus pass the difference
can buy at least a couple of coffees.

I've got 7 years to wait for my bus pass

There's someone's leaving-do next month, I was expecting it to be in
Nottingham, which isn't too bad from Leicester, had several good nights
out that way, except it's now going to be in Mansfield, which due to
poorly fitting timetables would mean 5 hours of buses and trains for 2
hours of drinking, the irony is the chap's new job is at a railway company.

[Bob Eager]

Post by Jeff Layman

Post by Andy Burns

Post by Jeff Gaines

You moved there fairly 'recently'. Did you not check out bus routes
and railway lines first ?.

No, don't use them.

Why not? Have you something against them?

Journeys involving buses and trains end up taking /much/ longer

That depends. If you're going into a city with dedicated bus lanes it
can be pretty quick. Also you've got to find a parking space, which
could be a challenge at busy times. Add to that the cost of parking (and
a small amount for fuel), and if you've a free bus pass the difference
can buy at least a couple of coffees.

Rail travel from here (East Kent) into the City of London (which I do for
meetings sometimes) is both quicker and cheaper (when parking is taken
into account) than driving. And more relaxing!

Even cheaper as the meetings are in the afternoon, so I can use my wrinkly
card.

[Andrew]

Post by Andy Burns

Post by Jeff Gaines

Post by Andrew
You moved there fairly 'recently'. Did you not check out
bus routes and railway lines first ?.

No, don't use them.

Why not? Have you something against them?

Journeys involving buses and trains end up taking /much/ longer

But if financial or medical reasons prevent you from driving and
you live alone or your partner doesn't drive, then you are
totally stuffed if (many years earlier when fit and capable with
20/20 vision) you moved to that 'dream house' out in the sticks.

[The Natural Philosopher]

Post by Andrew

Post by Andy Burns

Post by Jeff Gaines

Post by Andrew
You moved there fairly 'recently'. Did you not check out
bus routes and railway lines first ?.

No, don't use them.

Why not? Have you something against them?

Journeys involving buses and trains end up taking /much/ longer

But if financial or medical reasons prevent you from driving and
you live alone or your partner doesn't drive, then you are
totally stuffed if (many years earlier when fit and capable with
20/20 vision) you moved to that 'dream house' out in the sticks.

Round here you use taxis or stay at home enjoying the dream home

Most of what you need can be bought online anyway.

I think the point is that below a certain density public transport is
fucking useless.
When I were a lad the bus at the bottom of the road that took an hour to
do 8 miles into town, ran every hour. The train that took ten minutes,
was every half an hour but was 15 minutes walk away.

As a teenager I could cycle faster than the bus, later a car took about
15 minutes.
Public transport outside of a town simply belongs in the age of
leisurely coach rides across 1950s countryside - when it took a day to
get anywhere at all.

Living in London, i ended up *walking* everywhere as it was more
pleasant and scarcely slower than the underground.

[Marland]

Post by The Natural Philosopher

Post by Andrew

Post by Andy Burns

Post by Jeff Gaines

Post by Andrew
You moved there fairly 'recently'. Did you not check out
bus routes and railway lines first ?.

No, don't use them.

Why not? Have you something against them?

Journeys involving buses and trains end up taking /much/ longer

But if financial or medical reasons prevent you from driving and
you live alone or your partner doesn't drive, then you are
totally stuffed if (many years earlier when fit and capable with
20/20 vision) you moved to that 'dream house' out in the sticks.

Round here you use taxis or stay at home enjoying the dream home
Most of what you need can be bought online anyway.

Another factor is if when you moved to your dream home you just enjoyed the
view and did not attempt to make new friends you can end up very isolated
when the faculties go and you can no longer visit friends in old haunts.
Whereas if you get to know a few people and are not shy then when stuck you
can always ask somebody for a lift to that hospital appointment for that
eye test with drops in that prevent you from driving yourself.
We regularly ferry a couple of older residents around, hopefully if or when
I get to that stage others will do it for me.

GH

[Andrew]

Post by Marland

Post by The Natural Philosopher

Post by Andrew

Post by Andy Burns

Post by Jeff Gaines

Post by Andrew
You moved there fairly 'recently'. Did you not check out
bus routes and railway lines first ?.

No, don't use them.

Why not? Have you something against them?

Journeys involving buses and trains end up taking /much/ longer

But if financial or medical reasons prevent you from driving and
you live alone or your partner doesn't drive, then you are
totally stuffed if (many years earlier when fit and capable with
20/20 vision) you moved to that 'dream house' out in the sticks.

Round here you use taxis or stay at home enjoying the dream home
Most of what you need can be bought online anyway.

Another factor is if when you moved to your dream home you just enjoyed the
view and did not attempt to make new friends you can end up very isolated
when the faculties go and you can no longer visit friends in old haunts.
Whereas if you get to know a few people and are not shy then when stuck you
can always ask somebody for a lift to that hospital appointment for that
eye test with drops in that prevent you from driving yourself.
We regularly ferry a couple of older residents around, hopefully if or when
I get to that stage others will do it for me.
GH

Apart from one occasion when Southlands eye hospital gave me an 8:30AM
appointment on a Sunday (yes really), I have always managed to
get there by train to Shoreham-by-sea and then walking. Then get
the 700 bus back to Worthing and hence up into Sussex.
A bit of a circular route but I have all the time in the world.

[Paul]

Post by Marland

Post by The Natural Philosopher

Post by Andrew

Post by Andy Burns

Post by Jeff Gaines

Post by Andrew
You moved there fairly 'recently'. Did you not check out
bus routes and railway lines first ?.

No, don't use them.

Why not? Have you something against them?

Journeys involving buses and trains end up taking /much/ longer

But if financial or medical reasons prevent you from driving and
you live alone or your partner doesn't drive, then you are
totally stuffed if (many years earlier when fit and capable with
20/20 vision) you moved to that 'dream house' out in the sticks.

Round here you use taxis or stay at home enjoying the dream home
Most of what you need can be bought online anyway.

Another factor is if when you moved to your dream home you just enjoyed the
view and did not attempt to make new friends you can end up very isolated
when the faculties go and you can no longer visit friends in old haunts.
Whereas if you get to know a few people and are not shy then when stuck you
can always ask somebody for a lift to that hospital appointment for that
eye test with drops in that prevent you from driving yourself.
We regularly ferry a couple of older residents around, hopefully if or when
I get to that stage others will do it for me.
GH

The anecdotal evidence is, you live a longer life, if you
are still independent and have wheels of your own. It *does*
make a difference, if you're isolated.

If you only have the one vehicle, you're old and you
need reliable transport, the ICE solution is perfect
for you. As it's most likely to go when you need it
to go. A PHEV is likely to cost more. A practical
BEV is more expensive than one of the impractical models.
If you are still in your earning years, you can blend
vehicle types (own two cars), to get the best of each
type.

This PHEV is an example of a practical vehicle, and I would
want to see a review that actually gets the stated mileage
from such a tiny battery pack.

"Golf eHybrid" Eighty miles plus, on battery alone, hard to believe

https://www.volkswagen-newsroom.com/en/press-releases/dynamic-and-with-a-long-range-golf-gte-and-golf-ehybrid-now-available-to-order-18398

"Charging now also possible at DC quick-charging stations"

For a city driver, you could likely get around a lot
of the time, on electrons with that one. The petrol would
go stale, before you'd be using it :-)

Paul

[Marland]

Post by Paul

Post by Marland
We regularly ferry a couple of older residents around, hopefully if or when
GH

The anecdotal evidence is, you live a longer life, if you
are still independent and have wheels of your own. It *does*
make a difference, if you're isolated.
If you only have the one vehicle, you're old and you
need reliable transport, the ICE solution is perfect
for you. As it's most likely to go when you need it
to go.

One of the people we drive out still drives himself at times ,he has an
elderly Peugeot which is worth
hardly anything but doesn’t get much wear on it either , does less than
2500 miles per year.
What he has to do is remember to trickle charge the battery occasionally
otherwise after a week or two of non use especially in Winter it is most
likely not to go when he needs it.
OTOH having seen how little room a power bank style starting pack takes up
when I loaned him mine he has now got one for himself.

GH

[Andrew]

Post by The Natural Philosopher

Post by Andrew

Post by Andy Burns

Post by Jeff Gaines

Post by Andrew
You moved there fairly 'recently'. Did you not check out
bus routes and railway lines first ?.

No, don't use them.

Why not? Have you something against them?

Journeys involving buses and trains end up taking /much/ longer

But if financial or medical reasons prevent you from driving and
you live alone or your partner doesn't drive, then you are
totally stuffed if (many years earlier when fit and capable with
20/20 vision) you moved to that 'dream house' out in the sticks.

Round here you use taxis or stay at home enjoying the dream home
Most of what you need can be bought online anyway.
I think the point is that below a certain density public transport is
fucking useless.
When I were a lad the bus at the bottom of the road that took an hour to
do 8 miles into town, ran every hour. The train that took ten minutes,
was every half an hour but was 15 minutes walk away.
As a teenager I could cycle faster than the bus, later a car took about
15 minutes.
Public transport outside of a town simply belongs in the age of
leisurely coach rides across 1950s countryside - when it took a day to
get anywhere at all.
Living in London, i ended up *walking* everywhere as it was more
pleasant and scarcely slower than the underground.

Not Victoria to Kings X on the Victoria line you wouldn't. That
line really belts along when it is running smoothly.

[The Natural Philosopher]

Post by Andrew

Post by The Natural Philosopher

Post by Andrew

Post by Andy Burns

Post by Jeff Gaines

Post by Andrew
You moved there fairly 'recently'. Did you not check out
bus routes and railway lines first ?.

No, don't use them.

Why not? Have you something against them?

Journeys involving buses and trains end up taking /much/ longer

But if financial or medical reasons prevent you from driving and
you live alone or your partner doesn't drive, then you are
totally stuffed if (many years earlier when fit and capable with
20/20 vision) you moved to that 'dream house' out in the sticks.

Round here you use taxis or stay at home enjoying the dream home
Most of what you need can be bought online anyway.
I think the point is that below a certain density public transport is
fucking useless.
When I were a lad the bus at the bottom of the road that took an hour
to do 8 miles into town, ran every hour. The train that took ten
minutes, was every half an hour but was 15 minutes walk away.
As a teenager I could cycle faster than the bus, later a car took
about 15 minutes.
Public transport outside of a town simply belongs in the age of
leisurely coach rides across 1950s countryside - when it took a day to
get anywhere at all.
Living in London, i ended up *walking* everywhere as it was more
pleasant and scarcely slower than the underground.

Not Victoria to Kings X on the Victoria line you wouldn't. That
line really belts along when it is running smoothly.

Yes I calculated it can at times average more than 15mph!

I was on the Northern line

[charles]

Post by Andrew

Post by Andy Burns

Post by Jeff Gaines

Post by Andrew
You moved there fairly 'recently'. Did you not check out
bus routes and railway lines first ?.

No, don't use them.

Why not? Have you something against them?

Journeys involving buses and trains end up taking /much/ longer

But if financial or medical reasons prevent you from driving and
you live alone or your partner doesn't drive, then you are
totally stuffed if (many years earlier when fit and capable with
20/20 vision) you moved to that 'dream house' out in the sticks.

This village has a very good charitable service to provide lifts for those
who are "stuffed". I'm still one of their drivers.

[Timatmarford]

Post by charles

Post by Andrew

Post by Andy Burns

Post by Jeff Gaines

Post by Andrew
You moved there fairly 'recently'. Did you not check out
bus routes and railway lines first ?.

No, don't use them.

Why not? Have you something against them?

Journeys involving buses and trains end up taking /much/ longer

But if financial or medical reasons prevent you from driving and
you live alone or your partner doesn't drive, then you are
totally stuffed if (many years earlier when fit and capable with
20/20 vision) you moved to that 'dream house' out in the sticks.

This village has a very good charitable service to provide lifts for those
who are "stuffed". I'm still one of their drivers.

Here too. They call it the Thursday Club! I haven't used a bus since I
left school but we do have them.

[Jeff Gaines]

Post by Jeff Gaines

Post by Andrew

Post by Jeff Gaines
* There was a question about buses on our local Facebook group recently,
looks like one a week to a couple of local destinations, return following
week.

You moved there fairly 'recently'. Did you not check out
bus routes and railway lines first ?.

No, don't use them.

Why not? Have you something against them?

The last time I went on a bus I was travelling to school. I love trains,
best breakfast I ever had was on a train, but there is nowhere I need to
go on one and I would need to get to Salisbury or (I think) Brockenhurst
to catch one.

[Marland]

Post by Jeff Gaines

Post by Jeff Gaines

Post by Andrew

Post by Jeff Gaines
* There was a question about buses on our local Facebook group recently,
looks like one a week to a couple of local destinations, return following
week.

You moved there fairly 'recently'. Did you not check out
bus routes and railway lines first ?.

No, don't use them.

Why not? Have you something against them?

The last time I went on a bus I was travelling to school. I love trains,
best breakfast I ever had was on a train, but there is nowhere I need to
go on one and I would need to get to Salisbury or (I think) Brockenhurst
to catch one.

Bournemouth is closer to you than Brockenhurst , I have used Brockenhurst
in the past to catch a Cross Country service up to Birmingham because the
parking was easy and at the time I travelled about 7 in the morning no
traffic jam around Lyndhurst.

You are just a bit too far from Fordingbridge to use the buses from there
easily , the X3 service between Salisbury and Bournemouth is actually quite
good every 30 mins up til about 19.00 and then hourly till late with clean
modern vehicles that are a world away from the wheezing objects of the
past. We fortunately can leave the car in Fordingbridge for free so it pays
to get the bus to Salisbury to catch a train to London which is one place I
won’t drive to. Saves the cost of parking in Salisbury. for a day or more.

[Marland]

Post by Jeff Gaines

Post by Jeff Gaines
No, don't use them.

Why not? Have you something against them?

The last time I went on a bus I was travelling to school. I love trains,
best breakfast I ever had was on a train, but there is nowhere I need to
go on one and I would need to get to Salisbury or (I think) Brockenhurst
to catch one.

Bournemouth is closer to you than Brockenhurst , I have used Brockenhurst
in the past to catch a Cross Country service up to Birmingham because the
parking was easy and at the time I travelled about 7 in the morning no
traffic jam around Lyndhurst. But Cross country don’t stop there anymore so
for those journeys I just head for Southampton Airport Parkway ,via
Ringwood its only just over half an hour.

You are just a bit too far from Fordingbridge to use the buses from there
easily , the X3 service between Salisbury and Bournemouth is actually quite
good every 30 mins up til about 19.00 and then hourly till late with clean
modern vehicles that are a world away from the wheezing objects of the
past. We fortunately can leave the car in Fordingbridge for free so it pays
to get the bus to Salisbury to catch a train to London which is one place I
won’t drive to. Saves the cost of parking in Salisbury. for a day or more
or a Taxi. last bus back is 21.45 except on Friday and Saturday Nights
when it leaves at 10 past midnight.

GH

[charles]

Post by Jeff Gaines

Post by Jeff Gaines

Post by Andrew

Post by Jeff Gaines
* There was a question about buses on our local Facebook group recently,
looks like one a week to a couple of local destinations, return following
week.

You moved there fairly 'recently'. Did you not check out
bus routes and railway lines first ?.

No, don't use them.

Why not? Have you something against them?

The last time I went on a bus I was travelling to school. I love trains,
best breakfast I ever had was on a train, but there is nowhere I need to
go on one and I would need to get to Salisbury or (I think) Brockenhurst
to catch one.

my two grandsons are geting to Woking by train from Bournemouth this
afternoon ;-)

[Jeff Gaines]

Post by charles

Post by Jeff Gaines
The last time I went on a bus I was travelling to school. I love trains,
best breakfast I ever had was on a train, but there is nowhere I need to
go on one and I would need to get to Salisbury or (I think) Brockenhurst
to catch one.

my two grandsons are geting to Woking by train from Bournemouth this
afternoon ;-)

I used to live in The Riding in Woking!

[tony sayer]

Post by Jeff Gaines

Post by Jeff Gaines

Post by Andrew

Post by Jeff Gaines
* There was a question about buses on our local Facebook group recently,
looks like one a week to a couple of local destinations, return following
week.

You moved there fairly 'recently'. Did you not check out
bus routes and railway lines first ?.

No, don't use them.

Why not? Have you something against them?

The last time I went on a bus I was travelling to school. I love trains,
best breakfast I ever had was on a train, but there is nowhere I need to
go on one and I would need to get to Salisbury or (I think) Brockenhurst
to catch one.

What you should be a doing in the retirement years is driving the train!

Not cheap but bloody good fun:)

I'm waiting until one of the 3,300 horse Deltic's are up there again the
sound of that engine is superb:-)..

If you've got both 1650 HP units running at the same time..


https://nvr.org.uk/section.php/3/1/

[Jeff Gaines]

Post by tony sayer

Post by Jeff Gaines
The last time I went on a bus I was travelling to school. I love trains,
best breakfast I ever had was on a train, but there is nowhere I need to
go on one and I would need to get to Salisbury or (I think) Brockenhurst
to catch one.

What you should be a doing in the retirement years is driving the train!
Not cheap but bloody good fun:)
I'm waiting until one of the 3,300 horse Deltic's are up there again the
sound of that engine is superb:-)..
If you've got both 1650 HP units running at the same time..
https://nvr.org.uk/section.php/3/1/

How fantastic! Have you actually done it?

[alan_m]

Post by Andrew

Post by Jeff Gaines
* There was a question about buses on our local Facebook group
recently, looks like one a week to a couple of local destinations,
return following week.

You moved there fairly 'recently'. Did you not check out
bus routes and railway lines first ?.
When you get to a certain age, the ability, ease, and cost
of getting to and from decent shops and NHS facilities
should be top of your list when looking at somewhere new
to move to.

Its not just people who get to a certain age. :)

I know of someone who moved from the outskirts of London to a rural
location. Having purchased a nice property in a small village is when
he realised it was a 30 mile round trip to the nearest supermarket,
builders merchant, post office, doctors surgery, petrol station etc. or
an hour each way to a more cost effective supermarket or to other
warehouse type retailers, and the nearest hospital. There is no Uber
taxi or delivery for take-aways. Taxis usually have to be booked a day
in advance and often not available during school run periods.

Yes, a few of the big supermarkets do offer home delivery in the area.

[Marland]

Post by Jeff Gaines
Following the recent discussion in here I have started exploring EVs.
Kia Picanto £15,845 to £18,695 - PETROL
Renault 5 eTech £23,000 to £27,000
Fiat Grande Panda Electric £20,975
Citroen e-C3 £21,990
My 1983 built bungalow has an Austin A40 size garage, the A40 was 1,511 mm
wide from what I can discover, I want something that will fit in it.
My motoring is limited to doctor, dentist, optician, pharmacist, all
within 15 miles but I need my own transport so I can get out if I need to*.
The cheapest small EV is about £4K more than the most expensive petrol
Picanto. I m 77 so probably limited payback period, what do I get for my
extra money?
* There was a question about buses on our local Facebook group recently,
looks like one a week to a couple of local destinations, return following
week.

If you haven’t already looked at it then the Dorset Community Transport
page gives details for where you live.

<https://ectcharity.co.uk/dorset/welcome-dorset-community-transport>

I have a feeling that either now or very soon they will no longer be
totally free to holders of he National Bus Pass .

GH

[ajh]

Post by Marland
I have a feeling that either now or very soon they will no longer be
totally free to holders of he National Bus Pass .

Busses will be devoid of passengers then.

[Marland]

Post by ajh

Post by Marland
I have a feeling that either now or very soon they will no longer be
totally free to holders of he National Bus Pass .

Busses will be devoid of passengers then.

Just to clarify
You have snipped the URL I gave to J Gaines which may give the
impression I meant on all buses.

The URL linked to a local “charity” run transport service of which there
are quite few around the country. Rules are not standardised over them all
but many of the services operated are not stage carriage and require the
passenger to be pre registered with the provider and book in advance.
Some accept the ENBP ,some don’t ,others accept the pass but still charge a
small fare.
The one that serves the village J Gaines lives in at present accepts the
ENBP but has indicated that because some subsidies from the County Councils
have been reduced they will start to make a charge to ENBP Holders soon,
that charge will still be less than the fare for non pass holders.
Quite a number would have no choice but to pay it if they want to get out
of their village for a weekly shopping trip. Though a trio of old boys now
down to two went out to the various destinations and spent most of the time
before the return journey in a Wetherspoons.

I’ve no doubt the ENBP could be under threat at some time but at the moment
I don’t think there is any plan to charge holders of it on the normal stage
carriage services.
AFAIK that needs a change in law, Hampshire CC were making noises that they
would like to have their passholders pay a small charge like a £1.00 to
ease their finances but cannot as the law stands at the moment.

GH

[charles]

Post by ajh

Post by Marland
I have a feeling that either now or very soon they will no longer be
totally free to holders of he National Bus Pass .

Busses will be devoid of passengers then.

Just to clarify You have snipped the URL I gave to J Gaines which may
give the impression I meant on all buses.
The URL linked to a local ”charity• run transport service of which there
are quite few around the country. Rules are not standardised over them
all but many of the services operated are not stage carriage and require
the passenger to be pre registered with the provider and book in advance.
Some accept the ENBP ,some don‘t ,others accept the pass but still charge
a small fare. The one that serves the village J Gaines lives in at
present accepts the ENBP but has indicated that because some subsidies
from the County Councils have been reduced they will start to make a
charge to ENBP Holders soon, that charge will still be less than the fare
for non pass holders. Quite a number would have no choice but to pay it
if they want to get out of their village for a weekly shopping trip.
Though a trio of old boys now down to two went out to the various
destinations and spent most of the time before the return journey in a
Wetherspoons.
I‘ve no doubt the ENBP could be under threat at some time but at the
moment I don‘t think there is any plan to charge holders of it on the
normal stage carriage services. AFAIK that needs a change in law,
Hampshire CC were making noises that they would like to have their
passholders pay a small charge like a £1.00 to ease their finances but
cannot as the law stands at the moment.

The Guildford P&R services charge Bus Pass holders a reduced fare.

GH

[Marland]

Post by charles
The Guildford P&R services charge Bus Pass holders a reduced fare.

Another variation , At Salisbury the P&R services are free to Bus pas
holders , there is no charge to park the car either so that is another
option we sometimes use if we are going in and not collecting too much.

GH

[Jeff Layman]

Post by Marland

Post by charles
The Guildford P&R services charge Bus Pass holders a reduced fare.

Another variation , At Salisbury the P&R services are free to Bus pas
holders , there is no charge to park the car either so that is another
option we sometimes use if we are going in and not collecting too much.

Salisbury is fine, but Winchester and Portsmouth charge for parking at
the P&R. Is it a city or county council decision to charge or not? It's
always seemed strange to me that, with its congestion and pollution
problems when more than one cruise ship is berthed, Southampton has
never had a P&R.

[ajh]

Post by Marland

Post by ajh

Post by Marland
I have a feeling that either now or very soon they will no longer be
totally free to holders of he National Bus Pass .

Busses will be devoid of passengers then.

Just to clarify
You have snipped the URL I gave to J Gaines which may give the
impression I meant on all buses.

It was just an observation that most of the passengers I see on local
buses seem to be over 60, or does one need to be older to qualify now.

I have only used my pass in 3 cities and then only a handful of
journeys, for its convenience really rather than cost saving. Locally I
can walk the mile to town quicker than the circuitous bus journey. I
generally cycle though.

I do understand buses are an essential service to people less able than
I am.

[Marland]

Post by ajh

Post by Marland

Post by ajh

Post by Marland
I have a feeling that either now or very soon they will no longer be
totally free to holders of he National Bus Pass .

Busses will be devoid of passengers then.

Just to clarify
You have snipped the URL I gave to J Gaines which may give the
impression I meant on all buses.

It was just an observation that most of the passengers I see on local
buses seem to be over 60, or does one need to be older to qualify now.

Most areas it ( in England, don’t know about Wales ,Scotland an NI ) is
tied to the state pension date so 66 for most people. In London and
possibly a couple of other places free travel starts at 60 though to be
accurate that isn’t actually the National bus pass but something else.
Won”t be valid outside the areas, Londoners though also have travel on the
Underground and other rail services in the TFL area thrown in.

Younger people tend to be seen earlier or later.

Post by ajh
I have only used my pass in 3 cities and then only a handful of
journeys, for its convenience really rather than cost saving. Locally I
can walk the mile to town quicker than the circuitous bus journey. I
generally cycle though.
I do understand buses are an essential service to people less able than
I am.

They can be of use if you actually have them but PT cannot possibly serve
everyone in the sticks.
There is often something available as a last resort like a subsidised taxi
to a nearby town to visit the doctors but residents of countryside areas
have to accept their lifestyle needs a lot more forward planning once they
lose access to a car.

GH

[Andy Burns]

Post by ajh
It was just an observation that most of the passengers I see on local
buses seem to be over 60, or does one need to be older to qualify now.

In England (but outside London or Liverpool) you need to be pension age
rather than 60, which I think is 66 for anyone retiring now. Wales and
Scotland are 60.

I daresay there are some minor wrinkles in those rules somewhere ...

[Andrew]

Post by Andy Burns

Post by ajh
It was just an observation that most of the passengers I see on local
buses seem to be over 60, or does one need to be older to qualify now.

In England (but outside London or Liverpool) you need to be pension age
rather than 60, which I think is 66 for anyone retiring now. Wales and
Scotland are 60.
I daresay there are some minor wrinkles in those rules somewhere ...

Yes, only 60 in Wales, as my Barry-resident sister likes to remind me.

I remind her that the buses also have to travel at 20 MPH too :-)

SPA will be 67 in 2028 so I guess that will be the new free bus pass
age (if it still exists by then)

[Theo]

Post by Jeff Gaines
Following the recent discussion in here I have started exploring EVs.
Kia Picanto £15,845 to £18,695 - PETROL
Renault 5 eTech £23,000 to £27,000
Fiat Grande Panda Electric £20,975
Citroen e-C3 £21,990

Dacia Spring £15k

Post by Jeff Gaines
My 1983 built bungalow has an Austin A40 size garage, the A40 was 1,511 mm
wide from what I can discover, I want something that will fit in it.
My motoring is limited to doctor, dentist, optician, pharmacist, all
within 15 miles but I need my own transport so I can get out if I need to*.
The cheapest small EV is about £4K more than the most expensive petrol
Picanto. I m 77 so probably limited payback period, what do I get for my
extra money?

The Spring is actually cheaper.

TBH the best value is to buy slightly used. EVs have favourable tax
treatment as company cars, so after 2-4 years they get auctioned off. The
leasing company takes the depreciation hit (rhey probably got a bulk deal to
begin with) and you can buy them from a dealer for ~40% of the new price.
Most of them have long warranties so you're covered for issues other than
regular msintenance (tyres etc) and servicing (which is minimal).

Jonathan Porterfield:
https://m.youtube.com/channel/UCbTH9H1oI3IUSTMoGJDk5TQ
has a good series of videos of recent EV auctions and what they're fetching
each month. You might not want tp buy sight unseen at an auction, but you
can look up similar models on Autotrader to see what dealers are charging.

Buying used, various models like the Fiat 500e, Mini, etc might fit your
garage.

Theo

[Theo]

Post by Theo
Buying used, various models like the Fiat 500e, Mini, etc might fit your
garage.

New Dacia Spring (£17k top spec) v year old Fiat 500e (£17k):

Spring v Leapmotor T03 (£16k new):

[ajh]

Post by Theo

Post by Jeff Gaines
Following the recent discussion in here I have started exploring EVs.
Kia Picanto £15,845 to £18,695 - PETROL
Renault 5 eTech £23,000 to £27,000
Fiat Grande Panda Electric £20,975
Citroen e-C3 £21,990

Dacia Spring £15k

Post by Jeff Gaines
My 1983 built bungalow has an Austin A40 size garage, the A40 was 1,511 mm
wide from what I can discover, I want something that will fit in it.
My motoring is limited to doctor, dentist, optician, pharmacist, all
within 15 miles but I need my own transport so I can get out if I need to*.
The cheapest small EV is about £4K more than the most expensive petrol
Picanto. I m 77 so probably limited payback period, what do I get for my
extra money?

The Spring is actually cheaper.
TBH the best value is to buy slightly used. EVs have favourable tax
treatment as company cars, so after 2-4 years they get auctioned off. The
leasing company takes the depreciation hit (rhey probably got a bulk deal to
begin with) and you can buy them from a dealer for ~40% of the new price.
Most of them have long warranties so you're covered for issues other than
regular msintenance (tyres etc) and servicing (which is minimal).
https://m.youtube.com/channel/UCbTH9H1oI3IUSTMoGJDk5TQ
has a good series of videos of recent EV auctions and what they're fetching
each month. You might not want tp buy sight unseen at an auction, but you
can look up similar models on Autotrader to see what dealers are charging.
Buying used, various models like the Fiat 500e, Mini, etc might fit your
garage.
Theo

You seem to have researched this; are you aware of a car or car derived
van that is an EV or PHEV and is utilitarian and 4WD. I know there was a
pug 308 hybrid where the electric motor drove the back wheels and the IC
endgine the front but it didn't seem to be charged from the mains.

[Theo]

Post by ajh
You seem to have researched this; are you aware of a car or car derived
van that is an EV or PHEV and is utilitarian and 4WD. I know there was a
pug 308 hybrid where the electric motor drove the back wheels and the IC
endgine the front but it didn't seem to be charged from the mains.

What do you want it for? For cargo?

There are a lot of AWD EVs because adding another motor to the second axle
is relatively trivial. You don't necessarily get the ability to spin each
wheel independently - you might get that on one axle but not the other. Do
you actually need diffs or is AWD sufficient?

(I don't know a whole lot about offroading so happy to be educated if my
understanding is faulty)

'Dual motor' usually means AWD.

Most of the current AWD EVs are SUVs:
https://www.electrifying.com/blog/best-cars/the-best-4x4-electric-cars-to-buy

so seems like cheap and basic doesn't quite fit.

Autotrader has 9200 4wd EVs:
https://www.autotrader.co.uk/car-search?advertising-location=at_cars&drivetrain=Four+Wheel+Drive&fuel-type=Electric&make=&postcode=Sw1a1aa&sort=price-asc&page=2

and the cheapest ones are Teslas and Jaguar iPaces (which have problems).
But something like this Audi e-tron estate could work too:
https://www.autotrader.co.uk/car-details/202502219354577

If you can live without 4WD, the MG5 Estate is a real workhorse - popular as
a taxi and used as a van by these folks, currently at 152k miles.
https://m.youtube.com/channel/UCO8njdiq06-irfyc9xaCyig
They start at about 7k for high mileage examples.

There are also various vans (Nissan, Renault, now Transit and sone others)
and Maxus (LDV bought by Chinese) vans and pickups (quite ropey). Maxus have
a new eTerron 4WD pickup, maybe it's better than the older T90.

Theo

[ajh]

Post by Theo
What do you want it for? For cargo?

You have seen me on my way into work a year or so back. You probably
didn't see all my kit I had with me. I often need to get fairly close to
machinery in the woods to repair or service.

[Theo]

Post by ajh

Post by Theo
What do you want it for? For cargo?

You have seen me on my way into work a year or so back. You probably
didn't see all my kit I had with me. I often need to get fairly close to
machinery in the woods to repair or service.

Hmm, most of the commercial vehicles are more for deliveries than
offroading.

The Maxus eTerron 9 pickup looks like it'll fit the bill, but it's new and
so expensive (£53k+VAT). There are some Skoda Enyaq conversions:

https://professionalpickup.com/national-grid-converts-skoda-enyaq-into-electric-4x4-utility-van-for-engineering-crews/

Presumably if National Grid uses them the 4wd must be up to it?

The US has a number of EV pickups but we don't get them.

Theo

[ajh]

Post by Theo
Hmm, most of the commercial vehicles are more for deliveries than
offroading.

As I said peugeot used to make a hybrid that was all wheel driven but I
would like something that I could charge at home.

I wonder what happened to those conversions to conventional cars some
east Europeans were developing.

[Theo]

Post by ajh

Post by Theo
Hmm, most of the commercial vehicles are more for deliveries than
offroading.

As I said peugeot used to make a hybrid that was all wheel driven but I
would like something that I could charge at home.
I wonder what happened to those conversions to conventional cars some
east Europeans were developing.

There are Landy conversions:
https://www.electricclassiccars.co.uk/products/electric-classic-defender-conversion-kit
https://www.electrogenic.co.uk/kits/conversion-kits/series-land-rover-kits/
(many different kits from various vendors)

but they tend to be quite pricey.

There's no real reason why. This chap:
https://www.evbmw.com/index.php
https://www.youtube.com/@Evbmw/videos

buys 20yo basically scrap cars, throws some cheap parts in them (often out of
crashed Nissan Leafs) and makes them into EVs. It's pretty agricultural
stuff - eg he doesn't have a hoist, he just uses a pulley on a nearby tree.
eg his Mitsubishi L200 pickup conversion sounds like just your kind of thing.

I've not really followed the DIY EV Landy conversion scene but I imagine with
some effort welding up adapters you could drop in an EV drivetrain to
replace the original engine.

Theo

[RJH]

Post by Theo
https://m.youtube.com/channel/UCbTH9H1oI3IUSTMoGJDk5TQ
has a good series of videos of recent EV auctions and what they're fetching
each month. You might not want tp buy sight unseen at an auction, but you
can look up similar models on Autotrader to see what dealers are charging.

Not sure if I'm missing something, but most of those appear to be VAT payable,
plus a c.£1k buyer's fee.

Which makes the few I checked (e.g. at 8.45) more expensive than Autotrader -
despite being described as 'good price' on the video.

[Theo]

Post by RJH

Post by Theo
https://m.youtube.com/channel/UCbTH9H1oI3IUSTMoGJDk5TQ
has a good series of videos of recent EV auctions and what they're fetching
each month. You might not want tp buy sight unseen at an auction, but you
can look up similar models on Autotrader to see what dealers are charging.

Not sure if I'm missing something, but most of those appear to be VAT payable,
plus a c.£1k buyer's fee.
Which makes the few I checked (e.g. at 8.45) more expensive than Autotrader -
despite being described as 'good price' on the video.

Most car auctions are VAT qualifying, which means you pay VAT on the fees
but not on the vehicle, ie the hammer price has no extra VAT. Commercial
vehicles are often sold VAT exclusive, meaning private buyers must pay VAT
on top if they can't reclaim as a business. This is shown in the listing.

Auction fees are often set high to discourage private buyers, but you can go
via an auction buying service who qualify as a high-volume trader and pay
much lower fees, even including the fee to the buying service. Can be ~£500
depending on what price bracket you're in.

Theo

[RJH]

Post by Theo

Post by RJH

Post by Theo
https://m.youtube.com/channel/UCbTH9H1oI3IUSTMoGJDk5TQ
has a good series of videos of recent EV auctions and what they're fetching
each month. You might not want tp buy sight unseen at an auction, but you
can look up similar models on Autotrader to see what dealers are charging.

Not sure if I'm missing something, but most of those appear to be VAT payable,
plus a c.£1k buyer's fee.
Which makes the few I checked (e.g. at 8.45) more expensive than Autotrader -
despite being described as 'good price' on the video.

Most car auctions are VAT qualifying, which means you pay VAT on the fees
but not on the vehicle, ie the hammer price has no extra VAT.

Ah gotcha, thanks.

Post by Theo
Commercial
vehicles are often sold VAT exclusive, meaning private buyers must pay VAT
on top if they can't reclaim as a business. This is shown in the listing.

No, these were just passenger cars I was looking at, so no VAT payable on the
hammer press I assume.

Post by Theo
Auction fees are often set high to discourage private buyers, but you can go
via an auction buying service who qualify as a high-volume trader and pay
much lower fees, even including the fee to the buying service. Can be ~£500
depending on what price bracket you're in

Thanks - I'll take a closer look come the time.

[Theo]

Post by RJH

Post by Theo
Auction fees are often set high to discourage private buyers, but you can go
via an auction buying service who qualify as a high-volume trader and pay
much lower fees, even including the fee to the buying service. Can be ~£500
depending on what price bracket you're in

Thanks - I'll take a closer look come the time.

FWIW I've never quite had the numbers stack up for me. You have to pay
auction fees, buying service fees and maybe delivery. Meanwhile dealers
will be marking up vehicles they bought at auction by X amount. If all the
fees added together start to approach X, the value of the auction isn't so
attractive. Particularly given at auction you're buying (mostly) sight
unseen on the basis of condition reports made by the auction house, whereas
with a dealer (or private sale) you can inspect the vehicle in the flesh and
test drive it, and with a dealer they're responsible for (some) faults.

For dealers it works because they need to buy stock in volume, they have a
tame mechanic to fix faults, and they can take the risk of a lemon among the
peaches as it averages out in the end.

But I think there are areas where it can work... eg a 3 year old ex lease
car - you know it's being sold as an end of lease not because it's a shed,
it's still under warranty which will cover faults, and the condition report
covers superficial damage. Or if you're buying something that you reckon
most dealers won't touch so hammer prices will be low. Or you buy just
before Christmas when nobody is interested in getting new stock so prices
are depressed.

It really depends...

Theo

[PeterC]

Post by Jeff Gaines
Following the recent discussion in here I have started exploring EVs.
Kia Picanto £15,845 to £18,695 - PETROL
Renault 5 eTech £23,000 to £27,000
Fiat Grande Panda Electric £20,975
Citroen e-C3 £21,990
My 1983 built bungalow has an Austin A40 size garage, the A40 was 1,511 mm
wide from what I can discover, I want something that will fit in it.
My motoring is limited to doctor, dentist, optician, pharmacist, all
within 15 miles but I need my own transport so I can get out if I need to*.
The cheapest small EV is about £4K more than the most expensive petrol
Picanto. I m 77 so probably limited payback period, what do I get for my
extra money?
* There was a question about buses on our local Facebook group recently,
looks like one a week to a couple of local destinations, return following
week.
Following the interest in the EV thread I thought it timely to ask for
comment on replacing my wife's 2009 60k miles diesel Fiesta. About
2000m/year of local trips so the MOT smoke test a burden. (overcome so
far by a preceding long motorway trip!)
For several years, we have talked about changing to a new, battery, 4
seater vehicle. Range 150 miles would do.
Neither of us (80 just and 81) have ever driven one! From the passenger
seat, the complexity of the electronic display gadgetry is
incomprehensible! One of us is still struggling to operate her new TV!

If you don't need too much range, the Dacia Spring is fairly basic and well
under £20k.

[Andrew Gabriel]

Post by Jeff Gaines
Following the recent discussion in here I have started exploring EVs.
Kia Picanto £15,845 to £18,695 - PETROL
Renault 5 eTech £23,000 to £27,000
Fiat Grande Panda Electric £20,975
Citroen e-C3 £21,990
My 1983 built bungalow has an Austin A40 size garage, the A40 was 1,511
mm wide from what I can discover, I want something that will fit in it.
My motoring is limited to doctor, dentist, optician, pharmacist, all
within 15 miles but I need my own transport so I can get out if I need to*.
The cheapest small EV is about £4K more than the most expensive petrol
Picanto. I m 77 so probably limited payback period, what do I get for my
extra money?
* There was a question about buses on our local Facebook group recently,
looks like one a week to a couple of local destinations, return
following week.

I would also like to try an EV. I don't need a large range - 200 miles
in winter would meet most of my needs, or even just 150 miles at a pinch
(but that will include motorway driving).

I'm waiting for lower prices, which probably means more cheaper vendors
(probably Chinese) to enter the market.

[Paul]

I'm waiting for lower prices, which probably means more cheaper vendors (probably Chinese) to enter the market.

https://insideevs.com/news/730788/why-evs-arent-cheap/

Competing forces are at play. Let's see who wins.

Paul

[Theo]

Post by Paul

I'm waiting for lower prices, which probably means more cheaper vendors (probably Chinese) to enter the market.

https://insideevs.com/news/730788/why-evs-arent-cheap/
Competing forces are at play. Let's see who wins.

That's a US problem. Tariff imports so high to protect your domestic
companies, with the result they get bloated, lazy and uncompetitive in the
rest of the world. Exactly this happened in 1970s where the Japanese ate
the Big Three's lunch.

There are plenty of cheap EVs coming out of Europe and China - yes, some
even cheaper than $25k.

Theo

[The Natural Philosopher]

Post by Theo

Post by Paul

I'm waiting for lower prices, which probably means more cheaper vendors (probably Chinese) to enter the market.

https://insideevs.com/news/730788/why-evs-arent-cheap/
Competing forces are at play. Let's see who wins.

That's a US problem. Tariff imports so high to protect your domestic
companies, with the result they get bloated, lazy and uncompetitive in the
rest of the world. Exactly this happened in 1970s where the Japanese ate
the Big Three's lunch.

Same in the EU.

Post by Theo
There are plenty of cheap EVs coming out of Europe and China - yes, some
even cheaper than $25k.
Theo