13a soucket outlets with usb ports

[Peter Johnson]

Installing several more of these over the last couple of days reminded
me that when they first came available a fww years ago someone on here
was certain that they would be the cause of great conflagrations. I
haven't heard of any fires caused by them. Has anyone? They seem to be
mainstream now, even displayed in Screwfix for casual purchase. Some
of them even have 3amp USB c ports for faster phone charging.

[fred]

Post by Peter Johnson
Installing several more of these over the last couple of days reminded
me that when they first came available a fww years ago someone on here
was certain that they would be the cause of great conflagrations. I
haven't heard of any fires caused by them. Has anyone? They seem to be
mainstream now, even displayed in Screwfix for casual purchase. Some
of them even have 3amp USB c ports for faster phone charging.

I see obsolescence and reliability to be more of an issue than fire safety.

Now that USB type C is set to be the norm (at both ends) I can see early
adopters of ones with type A (rectangular outlets) kicking themselves as
fewer and fewer people use the annoyingly polarised connectors. The same
will apply as newer high spec charging outputs become the norm.

Also, if the USB element fails after a few years and a replacement is no
longer available in that fancy design you chose then you're stuffed. A
recent install at a relative's had the USB port DOA, not encouraging. A
simple, electronics free socket should last decades but with electronics,
who knows.

After the DOA item was returned it was decided simply to use a plugged-in
charger which can be replaced if it fails or goes obsolete and is an easy
solution if the installation is designed with plenty of outlets.

[Peter Johnson]

Post by fred

Post by Peter Johnson
Installing several more of these over the last couple of days reminded
me that when they first came available a fww years ago someone on here
was certain that they would be the cause of great conflagrations. I
haven't heard of any fires caused by them. Has anyone? They seem to be
mainstream now, even displayed in Screwfix for casual purchase. Some
of them even have 3amp USB c ports for faster phone charging.

I see obsolescence and reliability to be more of an issue than fire safety.
Now that USB type C is set to be the norm (at both ends) I can see early
adopters of ones with type A (rectangular outlets) kicking themselves as
fewer and fewer people use the annoyingly polarised connectors. The same
will apply as newer high spec charging outputs become the norm.

With the right lead a USB A outlet will still charge a phone with a
USB port, but slowly.
The current standard seems to be to provide USB A and USB C ports,
outputting 3a on the USB C and 2.4a on the USB A, total 4.2a, so
charging lower if both are used simultaneously.
Previously, they had 2 USB A ports for a total of 3.1a. Those that I
had that I have now replace will be relocated elsewhere that they
might be useful, and where I'm not bother about charging speed. One of
them is already in the garage, where it can charge an LED work light.
I have one of the 1st generation sockets with USB ports that is in the
loft, so I can't tell you what its ampage is, less than 2 I think.

[Scott]

On Sat, 05 Apr 2025 15:11:48 +0100, Peter Johnson

Post by Peter Johnson
Installing several more of these over the last couple of days reminded
me that when they first came available a fww years ago someone on here
was certain that they would be the cause of great conflagrations. I
haven't heard of any fires caused by them. Has anyone? They seem to be
mainstream now, even displayed in Screwfix for casual purchase. Some
of them even have 3amp USB c ports for faster phone charging.

Mine it MK where it is only the Essentials range that conflagrates:
https://www.gov.uk/product-safety-alerts-reports-recalls/product-safety-report-mk-electric-mk-essentials-electrical-three-pin-sockets-with-switches-2411-0130

[Davey]

On Sat, 05 Apr 2025 15:11:48 +0100

Post by Peter Johnson
Installing several more of these over the last couple of days reminded
me that when they first came available a fww years ago someone on here
was certain that they would be the cause of great conflagrations. I
haven't heard of any fires caused by them. Has anyone? They seem to be
mainstream now, even displayed in Screwfix for casual purchase. Some
of them even have 3amp USB c ports for faster phone charging.

Do these things use a little power all the time, even when nothing USB
is connected, or is there some kind of switching mechanism to control
them? Washing machines etc are required to shut themselves off if
unattended for some time, these sockets should be treated similarly, I
would think. Several years of even a trickle current would add up to
a lot of power.

[Andy Burns]

Post by Davey
Do these things use a little power all the time, even when nothing USB
is connected, or is there some kind of switching mechanism to control
them? Washing machines etc are required to shut themselves off if
unattended for some time, these sockets should be treated similarly, I
would think. Several years of even a trickle current would add up to
a lot of power.

There's a difference between "off" and "standby", the latter is better
now than it used to be, but just because your washing machine has no
LEDs lit, don't think it's completely off ...

[Davey]

On Thu, 10 Apr 2025 09:34:01 +0100

Post by Andy Burns

Post by Davey
Do these things use a little power all the time, even when nothing
USB is connected, or is there some kind of switching mechanism to
control them? Washing machines etc are required to shut themselves
off if unattended for some time, these sockets should be treated
similarly, I would think. Several years of even a trickle current
would add up to a lot of power.

There's a difference between "off" and "standby", the latter is
better now than it used to be, but just because your washing machine
has no LEDs lit, don't think it's completely off ...

That's why I always switch it off at the socket when I am done with it.
Ditto the dryer, the microwave oven, the electric cooking oven, the
bedroom TV set, etc etc. If it can be brought back to life by pressing
a button, then it's still using power. I could also turn off the living
room TV set, but it's too much hassle to reach the switch behind all
the equipment, and I need to leave the Humax on standby. I leave the
dishwasher on standby, but that's because I need to be a contortionist
to get to the mains switch.
All in all, I try my best.

[The Natural Philosopher]

Post by Davey
That's why I always switch it off at the socket when I am done with it.
Ditto the dryer, the microwave oven, the electric cooking oven, the
bedroom TV set, etc etc. If it can be brought back to life by pressing
a button, then it's still using power.

Depends on the button


Typical standby currents these days are the order of microamps

"The phantom power drawn from USB ports is about 0.05 watts (W) when
nothing is plugged in"

So about 400Wh per year.
Or less than 15p even at today's inflated 'green energy' rates

And at least a third of that you get back in terms of useful heating
compared to typical gas or heat pump costs

Just drink one less cup of tea per year. Problem solved.

Switching off everything on standby is a typical ArtStudent response. As
is half filling the kettle

Try not having a shower every day, Save far more

[Max Demian]

Post by The Natural Philosopher

Post by Davey
That's why I always switch it off at the socket when I am done with it.
Ditto the dryer, the microwave oven, the electric cooking oven, the
bedroom TV set, etc etc. If it can be brought back to life by pressing
a button, then it's still using power.

Depends on the button
Typical standby currents these days are the order of microamps
"The phantom power drawn from USB ports is about 0.05 watts (W) when
nothing is plugged in"
So about 400Wh per year.
Or less than 15p even at today's inflated 'green energy' rates
And at least a third of that you get back in terms of useful heating
compared to typical gas or heat pump costs
Just drink one less cup of tea per year. Problem solved.
Switching off everything on standby is a typical ArtStudent response. As
is half filling the kettle
Try not having a shower every day, Save far more

In the days of instant start CRT TVs - where the valve and CRT heaters
were left on - now that was a lot of standby power. And the sets
sometimes caught fire when people went away for holiday and left them in
standby. (I don't think there was any visible indication.)

This stopped in the mid 70s I think - I bought my first CTV in 1978 and
it genuinely started up in five seconds.

For years after, people continued to unplug their TVs when they want to
bed - and the aerial in case of a lightning strike. (I don't know
whether the latter was worthwhile.)

[Joe]

On Thu, 10 Apr 2025 12:36:39 +0100

Post by Max Demian
For years after, people continued to unplug their TVs when they want
to bed - and the aerial in case of a lightning strike. (I don't know
whether the latter was worthwhile.)

Very worthwhile if the aerial ever got a strike, not at all otherwise.

Next door's chimney was struck one day, with some sort of side shoot
travelling between our roof tiles to the TV aerial. The felt was pushed
away from the tiles and had a hole in it. The front element of the
aerial was bent back at 45 degrees on both sides, but there was no
other damage to it.

The aerial plug was hanging loose downstairs, and the socket just
wasn't there. No trace of it, just a burned wire end inside. The TV
tuner and power supply were destroyed.

Unfortunately, the TV was plugged in and on at the time, and everything
that was turned on in the house was damaged. The spike didn't seem able
to cross open switches. My receiver was off at the time, but the aerial
cable crossed a speaker cable, and that power amp was dead. The washing
machine was on, and the heater gained a short to ground. Even neon
bulbs died.

All covered by insurance, of course, but still annoying. The local
repairer couldn't get parts for the Rotel receiver, so I bought a
couple of Crimson Elektrik amp modules and fitted them, and the insurer
paid the cost.

Funny stuff, lightning.

[Andy Burns]

Post by Joe

Post by Max Demian
For years after, people continued to unplug their TVs when they want
to bed - and the aerial in case of a lightning strike. (I don't know
whether the latter was worthwhile.)

Very worthwhile if the aerial ever got a strike, not at all otherwise.
[snip tale of destruction]
Funny stuff, lightning.

So, if the aerial had been unplugged from the TV, do you think the
lightning would have harmlessly dribbled out of the socket and soaked
into the carpet!?

[Joe]

On Thu, 10 Apr 2025 14:31:58 +0100

Post by Andy Burns

Post by Joe

Post by Max Demian
For years after, people continued to unplug their TVs when they
want to bed - and the aerial in case of a lightning strike. (I
don't know whether the latter was worthwhile.)

Very worthwhile if the aerial ever got a strike, not at all
otherwise.
[snip tale of destruction]
Funny stuff, lightning.

So, if the aerial had been unplugged from the TV, do you think the
lightning would have harmlessly dribbled out of the socket and soaked
into the carpet!?

No, it would need to be moved some distance away and preferably the
mains plug removed. But presumably that would have reduced the
attractiveness of the aerial itself, inside the loft of the adjacent
house and no longer being at earth potential, and the lightning
offshoot may not have happened or at least been much weaker.

As I said, funny stuff. I'm aware of a somewhat local case of a
lightning offshoot *leaving* an earthed lightning conductor at a
right-angle bend. The moral being, don't route a lightning conductor to
ground through any sharp bends. Points at high potential have a very
high electrostatic gradient with respect to the rest of the world, and
charge is more likely to leak in or out of them. Hence the charge
collector of a Van de Graaf generator being as near a sphere as is
possible, with no sharp bits.

[tony sayer]

Post by Joe
On Thu, 10 Apr 2025 14:31:58 +0100

Post by Andy Burns

Post by Joe

Post by Max Demian
For years after, people continued to unplug their TVs when they
want to bed - and the aerial in case of a lightning strike. (I
don't know whether the latter was worthwhile.)

Very worthwhile if the aerial ever got a strike, not at all
otherwise.
[snip tale of destruction]
Funny stuff, lightning.

So, if the aerial had been unplugged from the TV, do you think the
lightning would have harmlessly dribbled out of the socket and soaked
into the carpet!?

No, it would need to be moved some distance away and preferably the
mains plug removed. But presumably that would have reduced the
attractiveness of the aerial itself, inside the loft of the adjacent
house and no longer being at earth potential, and the lightning
offshoot may not have happened or at least been much weaker.
As I said, funny stuff. I'm aware of a somewhat local case of a
lightning offshoot *leaving* an earthed lightning conductor at a
right-angle bend. The moral being, don't route a lightning conductor to
ground through any sharp bends. Points at high potential have a very
high electrostatic gradient with respect to the rest of the world, and
charge is more likely to leak in or out of them. Hence the charge
collector of a Van de Graaf generator being as near a sphere as is
possible, with no sharp bits.

Well we have installed some lightning earth systems and that small kink
in the down conductor usually going around the gutter presents quite a
bit of inductance to the discharge.

As to unplugging the TV aerial lead not a bad idea as by the time its
got that far its likely to have arced elsewhere and damaged something
else and even then your aerial might get a sideswipe not as strong as a
direct hit, in a previous time i have seen aerials melt then the cable
vaporise!

Its not done to fit lightning earth systems to domestic buildings here
others like office blocks and hospitals factories yes and there are
calculators around for that.

I've got a system here just needs finalising before the warmer weather
starts;). Got some nice old gear that needs taking care of, I've
actually got an Audiolab 8000 amp that was in a strike elsewhere more
cleaning up then a repair that was!..

[Marland]

Post by Andy Burns

Post by Joe

Post by Max Demian
For years after, people continued to unplug their TVs when they want
to bed - and the aerial in case of a lightning strike. (I don't know
whether the latter was worthwhile.)

Very worthwhile if the aerial ever got a strike, not at all otherwise.
[snip tale of destruction]
Funny stuff, lightning.

So, if the aerial had been unplugged from the TV, do you think the
lightning would have harmlessly dribbled out of the socket and soaked
into the carpet!?

When I was young Dad used to remove the lead when a storm approached, we
were an isolated dwelling and just about at the top of a hill* so
reasonably vulnerable to lightning strikes.
The aerial arrangement was a typical 1950’s VHF installation where the
coax ran down the roof and came in through a hole drilled in a wooden
window frame and terminated in an aerial socket mounted
on the inside of the window frame, from there five or six feet of aerial
fly lead plugged into the socket and down to the TV. The actual aerial was
very large as when it went up there was no official ITV contractor for the
region but Dad found he could using the large aerial just about receive ITV
from the adjoining area whose franchise was in operation. This meant
there was a large amount of metal
sitting on a tall pole some feet above the chimney.
As a storm approached he removed the fly lead but pulled it out of the
socket rather than the TV, as was often the case once the storm came close
the electricity went off so the old oil lamp was ready
on the table by the Window, Mother decided to sit at the table . Soon
after as the sky darkened an arc of electricity flew out of the socket and
hit the metalwork of the oil lamp about a yard away, next stop would have
been Mother and she was suitably startled.
I don’t think it could have been a direct strike as there was no damage
that could be noticed, perhaps a charge had built up on the aerial or it
had grounded the cloud that was now around us before it built up too much
charge to be a full strike but anyway after that Dad always removed the
plug from the telly and let it lie on the floor so any charge had far less
distance to cross.
* SWEBs. pole mounted transformer in the adjoining field was fractionally
higher , they have lost two to lightning that I am aware of with some
rewiring the house needed afterwards.

GH

[Davey]

On 10 Apr 2025 15:35:11 GMT

Post by Marland

Post by Andy Burns

Post by Joe

Post by Max Demian
For years after, people continued to unplug their TVs when they
want to bed - and the aerial in case of a lightning strike. (I
don't know whether the latter was worthwhile.)

Very worthwhile if the aerial ever got a strike, not at all
otherwise.
[snip tale of destruction]
Funny stuff, lightning.

So, if the aerial had been unplugged from the TV, do you think the
lightning would have harmlessly dribbled out of the socket and
soaked into the carpet!?

When I was young Dad used to remove the lead when a storm approached,
we were an isolated dwelling and just about at the top of a hill* so
reasonably vulnerable to lightning strikes.
The aerial arrangement was a typical 1950’s VHF installation where
the coax ran down the roof and came in through a hole drilled in a
wooden window frame and terminated in an aerial socket mounted
on the inside of the window frame, from there five or six feet of
aerial fly lead plugged into the socket and down to the TV. The
actual aerial was very large as when it went up there was no
official ITV contractor for the region but Dad found he could using
the large aerial just about receive ITV from the adjoining area
whose franchise was in operation. This meant there was a large
amount of metal sitting on a tall pole some feet above the chimney.
As a storm approached he removed the fly lead but pulled it out of
the socket rather than the TV, as was often the case once the storm
came close the electricity went off so the old oil lamp was ready
on the table by the Window, Mother decided to sit at the table . Soon
after as the sky darkened an arc of electricity flew out of the
socket and hit the metalwork of the oil lamp about a yard away, next
stop would have been Mother and she was suitably startled.
I don’t think it could have been a direct strike as there was no
damage that could be noticed, perhaps a charge had built up on the
aerial or it had grounded the cloud that was now around us before it
built up too much charge to be a full strike but anyway after that
Dad always removed the plug from the telly and let it lie on the
floor so any charge had far less distance to cross.
* SWEBs. pole mounted transformer in the adjoining field was
fractionally higher , they have lost two to lightning that I am aware
of with some rewiring the house needed afterwards.
GH

Once some years ago, a colleague and I were assigned the job of reading
the airflow in a whole set of paint shop exhaust stacks on top of a car
assembly plant in Tennessee. This meant that, for a whole afternoon,
were were inserting a 6-foot long stainless steel tube into holes
drilled into these steel stacks, and reading the pressure created by
the airflow. Soon after we started, the sky darkened and we saw a dark
cloud appearing over the horizon and heading our way. The assembly plant
was in a depression and we watched as the storm cloud went up one side
of the surrounding hills, then turned and came down the other side. We
could see lightning occasionally. Amazingly, although we were ready to
drop everything and flee at a moment's notice, the storm eventually
petered out and disappeared, much to our relief.

The project manager had been hit by lightning twice, he had no
sensation of hot or cold.

[The Natural Philosopher]

the aerial in case of a lightning strike. (I don't know whether the
latter was worthwhile.)

It's very unlikely, but yes. a strike to an antenna could be as
disastrous as my strike on the telephone drop wire

[tony sayer]

Post by The Natural Philosopher

the aerial in case of a lightning strike. (I don't know whether the
latter was worthwhile.)

It's very unlikely, but yes. a strike to an antenna could be as
disastrous as my strike on the telephone drop wire

Aren't you all fibre there now?..

[The Natural Philosopher]

Post by tony sayer

Post by The Natural Philosopher

the aerial in case of a lightning strike. (I don't know whether the
latter was worthwhile.)

It's very unlikely, but yes. a strike to an antenna could be as
disastrous as my strike on the telephone drop wire

Aren't you all fibre there now?..

That was when I was living on the Fens, Tony. About 1987...
I wstill have a copper phone circuit, though for how much longer...

[Davey]

On Thu, 10 Apr 2025 10:59:57 +0100

Post by Davey
On Thu, 10 Apr 2025 09:34:01 +0100

Post by Andy Burns

Post by Davey
Do these things use a little power all the time, even when nothing
USB is connected, or is there some kind of switching mechanism to
control them? Washing machines etc are required to shut themselves
off if unattended for some time, these sockets should be treated
similarly, I would think. Several years of even a trickle current
would add up to a lot of power.

There's a difference between "off" and "standby", the latter is
better now than it used to be, but just because your washing machine
has no LEDs lit, don't think it's completely off ...

That's why I always switch it off at the socket when I am done with
it. Ditto the dryer, the microwave oven, the electric cooking oven,
the bedroom TV set, etc etc. If it can be brought back to life by
pressing a button, then it's still using power. I could also turn off
the living room TV set, but it's too much hassle to reach the switch
behind all the equipment, and I need to leave the Humax on standby. I
leave the dishwasher on standby, but that's because I need to be a
contortionist to get to the mains switch.
All in all, I try my best.

Thanks, that's worth knowing. Tell Mad Ed, though, and see if he
listens!

[Davey]

On Thu, 10 Apr 2025 11:20:18 +0100

Post by Davey
On Thu, 10 Apr 2025 10:59:57 +0100

Post by Davey
On Thu, 10 Apr 2025 09:34:01 +0100

Post by Andy Burns

Post by Davey
Do these things use a little power all the time, even when
nothing USB is connected, or is there some kind of switching
mechanism to control them? Washing machines etc are required to
shut themselves off if unattended for some time, these sockets
should be treated similarly, I would think. Several years of
even a trickle current would add up to a lot of power.

There's a difference between "off" and "standby", the latter is
better now than it used to be, but just because your washing
machine has no LEDs lit, don't think it's completely off ...

That's why I always switch it off at the socket when I am done with
it. Ditto the dryer, the microwave oven, the electric cooking oven,
the bedroom TV set, etc etc. If it can be brought back to life by
pressing a button, then it's still using power. I could also turn
off the living room TV set, but it's too much hassle to reach the
switch behind all the equipment, and I need to leave the Humax on
standby. I leave the dishwasher on standby, but that's because I
need to be a contortionist to get to the mains switch.
All in all, I try my best.

Thanks, that's worth knowing. Tell Mad Ed, though, and see if he
listens!

Oops, wrong message. See elsewhere for correct placement.

[Tim Streater]

Post by Davey
All in all, I try my best.

Better than a lot of people, who just don't botherr. My brother, when he had a
new meter put in at home, decided to enter super anal mode and spent a while
turning off / disconnecting lots of stuff. Result was a 50% reduction in
consumption. But it's too easy just to leave stuff on.

[David Wade]

Post by Scott
On Sat, 05 Apr 2025 15:11:48 +0100

Post by Peter Johnson
Installing several more of these over the last couple of days reminded
me that when they first came available a fww years ago someone on here
was certain that they would be the cause of great conflagrations. I
haven't heard of any fires caused by them. Has anyone? They seem to be
mainstream now, even displayed in Screwfix for casual purchase. Some
of them even have 3amp USB c ports for faster phone charging.

Do these things use a little power all the time, even when nothing USB
is connected, or is there some kind of switching mechanism to control
them? Washing machines etc are required to shut themselves off if
unattended for some time, these sockets should be treated similarly, I
would think. Several years of even a trickle current would add up to
a lot of power.

More like over several centuries. Switched Mode PSUs such as the ones in
these adapt to the load. Under no load the current is incredibly low.
I checked the British General data sheets and for the "bog standard"
double 13amp socket with 2 x USB A outputs the standby consumption is
quoted as <100 milliwatts. So assuming 0.1Watts that is 1Kwh every
10,000 hours. There are only 8760 hours in a year that is less than 1
unit per year.

So assuming you are on the Price Cap of 25p/unit you would need I think
around 15 for 25p/month or 60 to make your bill £1/month more expensive.

I would guess the bigger units may have more, I think they probably
conform to the EU limit of 0.5W but Switched Mode PSUs can behave in an
non-intuitive manner. The adapt very well to both input and output load.
So reducing the mains voltage has no effect on power consumption. They
just take more current to compensate.

Of course, the usual caveats apply. Most ohe energy used will be
converted to heat so reducing your winter bill by a few pounds, but in
summer increasing your AirCon load....

Dave

[Davey]

On Thu, 10 Apr 2025 11:00:19 +0100

Post by David Wade

Post by Scott
On Sat, 05 Apr 2025 15:11:48 +0100

Post by Peter Johnson
Installing several more of these over the last couple of days
reminded me that when they first came available a fww years ago
someone on here was certain that they would be the cause of great
conflagrations. I haven't heard of any fires caused by them. Has
anyone? They seem to be mainstream now, even displayed in Screwfix
for casual purchase. Some of them even have 3amp USB c ports for
faster phone charging.

Do these things use a little power all the time, even when nothing
USB is connected, or is there some kind of switching mechanism to
control them? Washing machines etc are required to shut themselves
off if unattended for some time, these sockets should be treated
similarly, I would think. Several years of even a trickle current
would add up to a lot of power.

More like over several centuries. Switched Mode PSUs such as the ones
in these adapt to the load. Under no load the current is incredibly
low. I checked the British General data sheets and for the "bog
standard" double 13amp socket with 2 x USB A outputs the standby
consumption is quoted as <100 milliwatts. So assuming 0.1Watts that
is 1Kwh every 10,000 hours. There are only 8760 hours in a year that
is less than 1 unit per year.
So assuming you are on the Price Cap of 25p/unit you would need I
think around 15 for 25p/month or 60 to make your bill £1/month more
expensive.
I would guess the bigger units may have more, I think they probably
conform to the EU limit of 0.5W but Switched Mode PSUs can behave in
an non-intuitive manner. The adapt very well to both input and output
load. So reducing the mains voltage has no effect on power
consumption. They just take more current to compensate.
Of course, the usual caveats apply. Most ohe energy used will be
converted to heat so reducing your winter bill by a few pounds, but
in summer increasing your AirCon load....
Dave

Thanks, that's worth knowing. Tell Mad Ed, though, and see if he
listens!

Apologies for replying to the wrong post before.

[SteveW]

Post by Scott
On Sat, 05 Apr 2025 15:11:48 +0100

Post by Peter Johnson
Installing several more of these over the last couple of days reminded
me that when they first came available a fww years ago someone on here
was certain that they would be the cause of great conflagrations. I
haven't heard of any fires caused by them. Has anyone? They seem to be
mainstream now, even displayed in Screwfix for casual purchase. Some
of them even have 3amp USB c ports for faster phone charging.

Do these things use a little power all the time, even when nothing USB
is connected, or is there some kind of switching mechanism to control
them? Washing machines etc are required to shut themselves off if
unattended for some time, these sockets should be treated similarly, I
would think. Several years of even a trickle current would add up to
a lot of power.

Yes, they use power all the time, but it's so little, it's not worth
bothering about - one, just like a plug-in charger, might cost 22p a
year! 0.1W, 24 hours a day, 365 days a year, 25p a unit.

[Theo]

Post by SteveW

Post by Scott
On Sat, 05 Apr 2025 15:11:48 +0100

Post by Peter Johnson
Installing several more of these over the last couple of days reminded
me that when they first came available a fww years ago someone on here
was certain that they would be the cause of great conflagrations. I
haven't heard of any fires caused by them. Has anyone? They seem to be
mainstream now, even displayed in Screwfix for casual purchase. Some
of them even have 3amp USB c ports for faster phone charging.

Do these things use a little power all the time, even when nothing USB
is connected, or is there some kind of switching mechanism to control
them? Washing machines etc are required to shut themselves off if
unattended for some time, these sockets should be treated similarly, I
would think. Several years of even a trickle current would add up to
a lot of power.

Yes, they use power all the time, but it's so little, it's not worth
bothering about - one, just like a plug-in charger, might cost 22p a
year! 0.1W, 24 hours a day, 365 days a year, 25p a unit.

It's interesting in that some things you use sparingly may take more energy
in standby than in use. eg in this example (46m00):

the microwave may take more energy to run the clock over the course of a
year than is used in cooking the food. 0.7W for the clock is equivalent to
microwaving something for 36 seconds every day, and some microwaves don't
get used that much.

Since the total amount of energy is small it's not a big overall part of
your consumption. But it does make the point that a small number for a long
time can exceed a large number for a short time.

Theo

[SteveW]

Post by Theo

Post by SteveW

Post by Scott
On Sat, 05 Apr 2025 15:11:48 +0100

Post by Peter Johnson
Installing several more of these over the last couple of days reminded
me that when they first came available a fww years ago someone on here
was certain that they would be the cause of great conflagrations. I
haven't heard of any fires caused by them. Has anyone? They seem to be
mainstream now, even displayed in Screwfix for casual purchase. Some
of them even have 3amp USB c ports for faster phone charging.

Do these things use a little power all the time, even when nothing USB
is connected, or is there some kind of switching mechanism to control
them? Washing machines etc are required to shut themselves off if
unattended for some time, these sockets should be treated similarly, I
would think. Several years of even a trickle current would add up to
a lot of power.

Yes, they use power all the time, but it's so little, it's not worth
bothering about - one, just like a plug-in charger, might cost 22p a
year! 0.1W, 24 hours a day, 365 days a year, 25p a unit.

It's interesting in that some things you use sparingly may take more energy
http://youtu.be/OOK5xkFijPc
the microwave may take more energy to run the clock over the course of a
year than is used in cooking the food. 0.7W for the clock is equivalent to
microwaving something for 36 seconds every day, and some microwaves don't
get used that much.
Since the total amount of energy is small it's not a big overall part of
your consumption. But it does make the point that a small number for a long
time can exceed a large number for a short time.

Indeed.

The big users are electric cookers, water heaters, room heaters, washing
machines, tumble dryers, gaming computers and fridge-freezers. While
high standby power tends to be things like set-top boxes (but they need
to stay plugged-in for recording, schedule updates, etc.

For us, a constantly on device is the home-server, but that's not as bad
as I expected it might be.

[Tim+]

Post by Theo
It's interesting in that some things you use sparingly may take more energy
http://youtu.be/OOK5xkFijPc
the microwave may take more energy to run the clock over the course of a
year than is used in cooking the food. 0.7W for the clock is equivalent to
microwaving something for 36 seconds every day, and some microwaves don't
get used that much.

Hmm. The clock on ours doesn’t tell the time, it just counts down. A
lovely bit of electromechanical simplicity. It also gives a resounding
“ding” at the end. ;-)

We’ve had it longer than we’ve been married. (39 years so far). I think
it’s about 42 years old now.

Tim

[Adrian Caspersz]

Post by Peter Johnson
Installing several more of these over the last couple of days reminded
me that when they first came available a fww years ago someone on here
was certain that they would be the cause of great conflagrations. I
haven't heard of any fires caused by them. Has anyone? They seem to be
mainstream now, even displayed in Screwfix for casual purchase. Some
of them even have 3amp USB c ports for faster phone charging.

I was at a wine party, Gen-z folks working for HR admin that would not
know how to wire a plug.

Between a bunch of giggly girls the topic casually floated onto these
USB sockets.

"oh, I changed all mine in the kitchen"

"put the power off, undid the screws, undid the wires, popped the new
one in"

"easy, child of six can do it"

"don't pay an electrician"


How tight do ye think the connections were remade?
Was there still an functioning ring?

[Marland]

Post by Adrian Caspersz

Post by Peter Johnson
Installing several more of these over the last couple of days reminded
me that when they first came available a fww years ago someone on here
was certain that they would be the cause of great conflagrations. I
haven't heard of any fires caused by them. Has anyone? They seem to be
mainstream now, even displayed in Screwfix for casual purchase. Some
of them even have 3amp USB c ports for faster phone charging.

I was at a wine party, Gen-z folks working for HR admin that would not
know how to wire a plug.
Between a bunch of giggly girls the topic casually floated onto these
USB sockets.
"oh, I changed all mine in the kitchen"
"put the power off, undid the screws, undid the wires, popped the new
one in"
"easy, child of six can do it"
"don't pay an electrician"
How tight do ye think the connections were remade?
Was there still an functioning ring?

Not all younger people are stupid even though older people like to think
they are as they feel threatened.
One thing I have noticed is that many younger people will turn to something
like You tube
where it is possible to find out how to do something ,a resource that was
not around when I was their age. Obviously the information provided could
be suspect but changing 13 amp outlets to those with USB sockets is one of
the more common ones so viewing a few should show best practise.
Where problems could arise is when the law of sod strikes where wires are
too short for an easy swap
or previous bodges like the wrong polarity come to light. That is when a
few years of experience under the belt becomes useful in both recognising
and solving issues.

GH

[Joe]

On 11 Apr 2025 09:17:32 GMT

Post by Marland

Post by Adrian Caspersz

Post by Peter Johnson
Installing several more of these over the last couple of days
reminded me that when they first came available a fww years ago
someone on here was certain that they would be the cause of great
conflagrations. I haven't heard of any fires caused by them. Has
anyone? They seem to be mainstream now, even displayed in Screwfix
for casual purchase. Some of them even have 3amp USB c ports for
faster phone charging.

I was at a wine party, Gen-z folks working for HR admin that would
not know how to wire a plug.
Between a bunch of giggly girls the topic casually floated onto
these USB sockets.
"oh, I changed all mine in the kitchen"
"put the power off, undid the screws, undid the wires, popped the
new one in"
"easy, child of six can do it"
"don't pay an electrician"
How tight do ye think the connections were remade?
Was there still an functioning ring?

Not all younger people are stupid even though older people like to
think they are as they feel threatened.

It's not being stupid, it's being ignorant of many things we needed to
know but they don't. The country is a great deal wealthier now, and many
things are thrown away rather than repaired, and of course cheapness of
manufacture means that many things can't be repaired. Things have also
become more reliable generally. When I started driving, I'd generally
get half a dozen punctures a year, so I learned quickly how to change a
wheel. Today, there is no spare wheel and no tools supplied anyway.

Because people haven't grown up fixing things, they will immediately
turn to a tradesman rather than enter a whole new world. Those who do
try to take the plunge often do the best they can, but lack fundamental
knowledge.

The government doesn't help in self-sufficiency, for obvious reasons.
Appliances have come with moulded 13A plugs for decades, so very few
know how to wire a plug. What used to be a necessary skill for any
non-rich adult would also help somewhat with fixed wiring. Of course
now it's illegal to do all but the simplest fixed-wiring job, and even
replacing a standard socket with one with USB might be argued in court
not to be a like-for-like replacement.

Post by Marland
One thing I have noticed is that many younger people will turn to
something like You tube
where it is possible to find out how to do something ,a resource
that was not around when I was their age. Obviously the information
provided could be suspect but changing 13 amp outlets to those with
USB sockets is one of the more common ones so viewing a few should
show best practise. Where problems could arise is when the law of sod
strikes where wires are too short for an easy swap
or previous bodges like the wrong polarity come to light. That is
when a few years of experience under the belt becomes useful in both
recognising and solving issues.

Indeed, and if you don't start gaining that experience you will never
have it.

[Theo]

Post by Marland
Not all younger people are stupid even though older people like to think
they are as they feel threatened.
One thing I have noticed is that many younger people will turn to something
like You tube
where it is possible to find out how to do something ,a resource that was
not around when I was their age. Obviously the information provided could
be suspect but changing 13 amp outlets to those with USB sockets is one of
the more common ones so viewing a few should show best practise.

+1. I have been handed down the family heirloom Readers Digest Guide to
DIY, which was the bible of the 1970s. It's neat to flick through, but I've
barely opened it - YT is better in almost all regards.

Post by Marland
Where problems could arise is when the law of sod strikes where wires are
too short for an easy swap or previous bodges like the wrong polarity come
to light. That is when a few years of experience under the belt becomes
useful in both recognising and solving issues.

It also helps to have enough of a resource of bits to dig you out of the
inevitable hole. If the wires are too short, you can just Wago to make them
longer - if you know that Wagos exist and you have one on hand. Otherwise
it generates a lot of trips to the DIY store as you have to solve each hole
in turn.

Plus it's useful to know that your options for resolving the problem might
be A, B, C but you know that C is the quickest/neatest/etc. A DIY peril is
it's easy to come up with elaborate solution D that's 'nice' but takes 5x as
long/as much money to do.

Theo

[David Wade]

Post by Adrian Caspersz

Post by Peter Johnson
Installing several more of these over the last couple of days reminded
me that when they first came available a fww years ago someone on here
was certain that they would be the cause of great conflagrations. I
haven't heard of any fires caused by them. Has anyone? They seem to be
mainstream now, even displayed in Screwfix for casual purchase. Some
of them even have 3amp USB c ports for faster phone charging.

I was at a wine party, Gen-z folks working for HR admin that would not
know how to wire a plug.

Why would any one know how to wire a plug, let alone select the correct
fuse. I suspect 99% have never needed this skill. By law, since 1987 so
almost 30 years ago, everything you buy must come with plug pre-fitted.

So its a rare event one needs replacing. Even when it does, for many
pieces of equipment, the lead is an IEEE type with a "C" series socket
at the appliance end. If you don't have a spare, and who doesn't,
replacement leads are available from Amazon or E-bay in some cases for
less than a 13AMP plug...

.. and speaking of 13Amp plugs most are moulded to the lead, so you
really need a decent set of cutters/strippers to remove and replace a
plug, why would you have these to hand, if you seldom use them..

Post by Adrian Caspersz
Between a bunch of giggly girls the topic casually floated onto these
USB sockets.
 "oh, I changed all mine in the kitchen"
 "put the power off, undid the screws, undid the wires, popped the new
one in"
 "easy, child of six can do it"
 "don't pay an electrician"
How tight do ye think the connections were remade?
Was there still an functioning ring?

Who knows, but its one of the things you are permitted to do.

Dave