Discussion:
Mostly Vegan - Ping Tim
(too old to reply)
GB
2021-05-06 18:03:13 UTC
Permalink
I bake most of the bread we eat, and it's nearly all vegan. But, for one
thing!

I need/like to glaze some of the loaves, and I haven't found a decent
substitute for egg to do that. I've tried the liquid from tinned
chickpeas, but it's really naff compared to nice shiny egg.

So, can you suggest a decent vegan substitute, please?

We have vegan guests, and I'm fed up with apologising for the poorly
glazed bread. :)
Rod Speed
2021-05-06 18:35:58 UTC
Permalink
Post by GB
I bake most of the bread we eat,
I bake all I eat.
Post by GB
and it's nearly all vegan. But, for one thing!
I couldn’t care less if its vegan or not or how badly
the wheat etc was tortured getting the grains off the
plants with some fucking great machine costing a
decent chunk of a megabuck and moved in fucking great
polluting trucks from where its grown to where I bake it.
Post by GB
I need/like to glaze some of the loaves, and I haven't found a decent
substitute for egg to do that. I've tried the liquid from tinned
chickpeas, but it's really naff compared to nice shiny egg.
So, can you suggest a decent vegan substitute, please?
We have vegan guests, and I'm fed up with apologising for the poorly
glazed bread. :)
I'd tell them to like it or lump it or bring their own.
Peeler
2021-05-06 20:19:19 UTC
Permalink
On Fri, 7 May 2021 04:35:58 +1000, cantankerous trolling geezer Rodent
Speed, the auto-contradicting senile sociopath, blabbered, again:

<FLUSH the trolling senile asshole's latest trollshit unread>
--
Sqwertz to Rodent Speed:
"This is just a hunch, but I'm betting you're kinda an argumentative
asshole.
MID: <ev1p6ml7ywd5$***@sqwertz.com>
williamwright
2021-05-06 18:46:11 UTC
Permalink
Post by GB
We have vegan guests, and I'm fed up with apologising for the poorly
glazed bread. :)
Why on earth do you let these lunatics in your house, never mind humour
their dietary obsessions?

Bill
ARW
2021-05-06 19:30:25 UTC
Permalink
Post by williamwright
Post by GB
We have vegan guests, and I'm fed up with apologising for the poorly
glazed bread. :)
Why on earth do you let these lunatics in your house, never mind humour
their dietary obsessions?
The guests are only allowed into the garden under current covid rules.

They me be allowed into the house to use the toilet but how do they know
if the toilet paper or soap is vegan?
--
Adam
Robin
2021-05-06 19:49:20 UTC
Permalink
Post by williamwright
Post by GB
We have vegan guests, and I'm fed up with apologising for the poorly
glazed bread. :)
Why on earth do you let these lunatics in your house, never mind humour
their dietary obsessions?
Vegan guests mean more Zebra left for GB? And he can argue that he's
doing his bit to save the planet by not inviting, say, you and Adam.
--
Robin
reply-to address is (intended to be) valid
ARW
2021-05-06 20:02:14 UTC
Permalink
Post by Robin
Post by williamwright
Post by GB
We have vegan guests, and I'm fed up with apologising for the poorly
glazed bread. :)
Why on earth do you let these lunatics in your house, never mind
humour their dietary obsessions?
Vegan guests mean more Zebra left for GB? And he can argue that he's
doing his bit to save the planet by not inviting, say, you and Adam.
Swordfish steak tonight for tea.
--
Adam
Robin
2021-05-06 20:17:20 UTC
Permalink
Post by ARW
Post by Robin
Post by williamwright
Post by GB
We have vegan guests, and I'm fed up with apologising for the poorly
glazed bread. :)
Why on earth do you let these lunatics in your house, never mind
humour their dietary obsessions?
Vegan guests mean more Zebra left for GB? And he can argue that he's
doing his bit to save the planet by not inviting, say, you and Adam.
Swordfish steak tonight for tea.
lovely jubbly

but after the zebra et al I can't help but wonder if you've been working
at a zoo lately :)
--
Robin
reply-to address is (intended to be) valid
ARW
2021-05-09 15:24:20 UTC
Permalink
Post by Robin
Post by ARW
Post by Robin
Post by williamwright
Post by GB
We have vegan guests, and I'm fed up with apologising for the
poorly glazed bread. :)
Why on earth do you let these lunatics in your house, never mind
humour their dietary obsessions?
Vegan guests mean more Zebra left for GB? And he can argue that he's
doing his bit to save the planet by not inviting, say, you and Adam.
Swordfish steak tonight for tea.
lovely jubbly
but after the zebra et al I can't help but wonder if you've been working
at a zoo lately :)
I am working in an old folks home tomorrow....
--
Adam
Richard
2021-05-09 15:44:08 UTC
Permalink
Post by ARW
Post by Robin
Post by ARW
Post by Robin
Post by williamwright
Post by GB
We have vegan guests, and I'm fed up with apologising for the
poorly glazed bread. :)
Why on earth do you let these lunatics in your house, never mind
humour their dietary obsessions?
Vegan guests mean more Zebra left for GB? And he can argue that he's
doing his bit to save the planet by not inviting, say, you and Adam.
Swordfish steak tonight for tea.
lovely jubbly
but after the zebra et al I can't help but wonder if you've been
working at a zoo lately :)
I am working in an old folks home tomorrow....
No more exotics then.
Just same old, same old?
ARW
2021-05-09 18:04:09 UTC
Permalink
Post by Richard
Post by ARW
I am working in an old folks home tomorrow....
No more exotics then.
Just same old, same old?
:-)

With HP sauce.
--
Adam
Robin
2021-05-09 20:41:40 UTC
Permalink
Post by Richard
Post by ARW
Post by Robin
Post by ARW
Post by Robin
Post by williamwright
Post by GB
We have vegan guests, and I'm fed up with apologising for the
poorly glazed bread. :)
Why on earth do you let these lunatics in your house, never mind
humour their dietary obsessions?
Vegan guests mean more Zebra left for GB? And he can argue that
he's doing his bit to save the planet by not inviting, say, you and
Adam.
Swordfish steak tonight for tea.
lovely jubbly
but after the zebra et al I can't help but wonder if you've been
working at a zoo lately :)
I am working in an old folks home tomorrow....
No more exotics then.
Just same old, same old?
You've tasted 90 year matured long pig?

Anyhow, I've always thought it's a waste to burn bodies. If the anatomy
dept. doesn't want mine then I'd be happy for it to go for Soylent Green.
--
Robin
reply-to address is (intended to be) valid
Dave W
2021-05-07 07:19:15 UTC
Permalink
On Thu, 6 May 2021 19:46:11 +0100, williamwright
Post by williamwright
Post by GB
We have vegan guests, and I'm fed up with apologising for the poorly
glazed bread. :)
Why on earth do you let these lunatics in your house, never mind humour
their dietary obsessions?
Bill
Don't apologi
Andy Burns
2021-05-06 18:49:38 UTC
Permalink
I haven't found a decent substitute for egg
Not tried it, but I've seen something called "Oggs" on the supermarket
shelf?

<https://www.loveoggs.com/product-oggs-aquafaba-egg-alternative/>
Fredxx
2021-05-06 18:55:08 UTC
Permalink
Post by GB
I bake most of the bread we eat, and it's nearly all vegan. But, for one
thing!
I need/like to glaze some of the loaves, and I haven't found a decent
substitute for egg to do that. I've tried the liquid from tinned
chickpeas, but it's really naff compared to nice shiny egg.
So, can you suggest a decent vegan substitute, please?
We have vegan guests, and I'm fed up with apologising for the poorly
glazed bread. :)
There are many alternatives that are alternatives to egg wash but don't
give a glaze finish.

I have read that brushing oil after baking is a way of getting a glaze
effect.

Do let us know how you get on.
T i m
2021-05-06 18:58:21 UTC
Permalink
Post by GB
I bake most of the bread we eat, and it's nearly all vegan.
So do I (but only from kits). ;-)
Post by GB
But, for one
thing!
Ok ...
Post by GB
I need/like to glaze some of the loaves, and I haven't found a decent
substitute for egg to do that. I've tried the liquid from tinned
chickpeas, but it's really naff compared to nice shiny egg.
Oh.
Post by GB
So, can you suggest a decent vegan substitute, please?
No, sorry mate I can't (well not from personal experience) but there
do seem to be various solutions (one you have tried).

The loaves I bake are just a wholegrain and seem to 'brown up'
perfectly well on their own. ;-)
Post by GB
We have vegan guests, and I'm fed up with apologising for the poorly
glazed bread. :)
Have you asked them if they care? The chances are if you are
accommodating them in general I think they would be happy with that or
what about asking them?

I do know a professional baker and I'll ask him if he glazes his vegan
range and if so, what he uses (and get back to you).

Cheers, T i m
GB
2021-05-07 00:30:55 UTC
Permalink
Post by T i m
Post by GB
We have vegan guests, and I'm fed up with apologising for the poorly
glazed bread. :)
Have you asked them if they care? The chances are if you are
accommodating them in general I think they would be happy with that or
what about asking them?
The main guest is our son in law, and he's perfectly happy with the
vegan glaze. Thinking about it, it's the rest of the family who are
disappointed by it. :)
Post by T i m
I do know a professional baker and I'll ask him if he glazes his vegan
range and if so, what he uses (and get back to you).
Thanks. That would be appreciated.
Post by T i m
Cheers, T i m
T i m
2021-05-07 09:44:00 UTC
Permalink
Post by GB
Post by T i m
Post by GB
We have vegan guests, and I'm fed up with apologising for the poorly
glazed bread. :)
Have you asked them if they care? The chances are if you are
accommodating them in general I think they would be happy with that or
what about asking them?
The main guest is our son in law, and he's perfectly happy with the
vegan glaze. Thinking about it, it's the rest of the family who are
disappointed by it. :)
See, and they say vegans are 'fussy'! (Well, yes we are, we 'prefer'
our food didn't come with others suffering pain, suffering and death).
Post by GB
Post by T i m
I do know a professional baker and I'll ask him if he glazes his vegan
range and if so, what he uses (and get back to you).
Thanks. That would be appreciated.
He replied with something about 'orange' but I'm not sure he
understood the question so I've re-stated it in my reply (we are going
to try some of his sourdough bread and I think he though we wanted it
(vegan) glazed).


OOI, what is the main purpose of the glaze for you as it seems it can
change the flavour and so there are some for sweet and some for
savoury? If it's just the colour, wouldn't that only really be visible
when the loaf is sitting there whole, rather than cut up in slices?

I guess it might be more relevant if you were making rolls etc?

Cheers, T i m
GB
2021-05-07 10:43:56 UTC
Permalink
Post by T i m
I guess it might be more relevant if you were making rolls etc?
That's indeed what I am making. I'll try to post a picture later.
Post by T i m
Cheers, T i m
GB
2021-05-07 11:41:42 UTC
Permalink
https://imgur.com/hhkmIVX
Rod Speed
2021-05-07 19:44:34 UTC
Permalink
It has to be 100% vegan or timmy will burst a blood vessel, stupid.
Post by GB
https://imgur.com/hhkmIVX
Peeler
2021-05-07 21:06:46 UTC
Permalink
On Sat, 8 May 2021 05:44:34 +1000, cantankerous trolling geezer Rodent
Speed, the auto-contradicting senile sociopath, blabbered, again:

<FLUSH the trolling senile asshole's latest trollshit unread>
Fredxx
2021-05-07 12:30:10 UTC
Permalink
Post by T i m
Post by GB
Post by T i m
Post by GB
We have vegan guests, and I'm fed up with apologising for the poorly
glazed bread. :)
Have you asked them if they care? The chances are if you are
accommodating them in general I think they would be happy with that or
what about asking them?
The main guest is our son in law, and he's perfectly happy with the
vegan glaze. Thinking about it, it's the rest of the family who are
disappointed by it. :)
See, and they say vegans are 'fussy'! (Well, yes we are, we 'prefer'
our food didn't come with others suffering pain, suffering and death).
Death is a certainty, pain and suffering are optional. Shame you don't
care about animal welfare while the animal is alive.
The Natural Philosopher
2021-05-06 19:59:56 UTC
Permalink
Post by GB
I bake most of the bread we eat, and it's nearly all vegan. But, for one
thing!
I need/like to glaze some of the loaves, and I haven't found a decent
substitute for egg to do that. I've tried the liquid from tinned
chickpeas, but it's really naff compared to nice shiny egg.
So, can you suggest a decent vegan substitute, please?
We have vegan guests, and I'm fed up with apologising for the poorly
glazed bread. :)
milk works if they are not agin it

I guess you need a protein? Lentils boiled to destruction?
--
"Nature does not give up the winter because people dislike the cold."

― Confucius
Richard
2021-05-07 05:30:17 UTC
Permalink
Post by The Natural Philosopher
Post by GB
I bake most of the bread we eat, and it's nearly all vegan. But, for
one thing!
I need/like to glaze some of the loaves, and I haven't found a decent
substitute for egg to do that. I've tried the liquid from tinned
chickpeas, but it's really naff compared to nice shiny egg.
So, can you suggest a decent vegan substitute, please?
We have vegan guests, and I'm fed up with apologising for the poorly
glazed bread. :)
milk works if they are not agin it
You seem to not grasp the "vegan" bit of this.
Post by The Natural Philosopher
I guess you need a protein? Lentils boiled to destruction?
williamwright
2021-05-07 07:34:00 UTC
Permalink
Post by Richard
Post by The Natural Philosopher
milk works if they are not agin it
You seem to not grasp the "vegan" bit of this.
Vegans won't have milk because milking a cow kills it.

Bill
SH
2021-05-07 07:51:42 UTC
Permalink
Post by williamwright
Post by Richard
Post by The Natural Philosopher
milk works if they are not agin it
You seem to not grasp the "vegan" bit of this.
Vegans won't have milk because milking a cow kills it.
Bill
There is a range of vegan milk options available:

Soya milk
Oat milk
coconut milk
Peanut milk
cashew milk
Almond milk
Pistachio milk

(from
https://www.independent.co.uk/extras/indybest/food-drink/best-plant-milks-vegan-soy-oat-peanut-pistachio-almond-a8485246.html)
SH
2021-05-07 07:55:00 UTC
Permalink
and while on the subject of baking glazes:

http://www.veganbaking.net/recipes/cake-decorating/icings/sugar-glaze
T i m
2021-05-07 10:31:09 UTC
Permalink
Post by SH
Post by williamwright
Post by Richard
Post by The Natural Philosopher
milk works if they are not agin it
You seem to not grasp the "vegan" bit of this.
Vegans won't have milk because milking a cow kills it.
Bill
Soya milk
Oat milk
coconut milk
Peanut milk
cashew milk
Almond milk
Pistachio milk
They aren't actually 'vegan milk options', they are 'human milk
options' as we should never have been consuming the growth fluid of a
different species in the first place!

Once you have undone all the indoctrination you (we) have been
subjected to for (for most here), many many years you should be able
to see it for the weird behaviour that it has always been.

Now, 'I get' you might stoop to all sorts of levels to do things to
survive but we aren't talking about survival in 2021, well not for a
vast proportion of the population in any case. And given 65% of the
population are lactose intolerant (more intolerant of cows milk than
pretty well anything else), that should give you the clue that maybe
we weren't ever meant to drink it.

Building up a tolerance to something we weren't naturally tolerant to
(because it wasn't meant for us) makes as much sense of keeping
smoking even though it makes you sick until you can do it without
being sick.

Cheers, T i m
SH
2021-05-07 11:41:03 UTC
Permalink
Post by T i m
Post by SH
Post by williamwright
Post by Richard
Post by The Natural Philosopher
milk works if they are not agin it
You seem to not grasp the "vegan" bit of this.
Vegans won't have milk because milking a cow kills it.
Bill
Soya milk
Oat milk
coconut milk
Peanut milk
cashew milk
Almond milk
Pistachio milk
They aren't actually 'vegan milk options', they are 'human milk
options' as we should never have been consuming the growth fluid of a
different species in the first place!
Once you have undone all the indoctrination you (we) have been
subjected to for (for most here), many many years you should be able
to see it for the weird behaviour that it has always been.
Now, 'I get' you might stoop to all sorts of levels to do things to
survive but we aren't talking about survival in 2021, well not for a
vast proportion of the population in any case. And given 65% of the
population are lactose intolerant (more intolerant of cows milk than
pretty well anything else), that should give you the clue that maybe
we weren't ever meant to drink it.
Building up a tolerance to something we weren't naturally tolerant to
(because it wasn't meant for us) makes as much sense of keeping
smoking even though it makes you sick until you can do it without
being sick.
Cheers, T i m
Well mothers do produce human milk for their babies. Its also documented
that mothers can breast feed for several years..... I've heard of kids
still breast feeding at age 6.

So clearly humans can at least drink & digest human milk.....

What would your thoughts be on harvesting human milk and making cheese,
butter, yoghurt etc out of it?

(a genuine question rather than an attempt to wind anyone up... :-) )
T i m
2021-05-07 12:13:35 UTC
Permalink
On Fri, 7 May 2021 12:41:03 +0100, SH <***@spam.com> wrote:

<snip>
Post by SH
Post by T i m
Building up a tolerance to something we weren't naturally tolerant to
(because it wasn't meant for us) makes as much sense of keeping
smoking even though it makes you sick until you can do it without
being sick.
Well mothers do produce human milk for their babies. Its also documented
that mothers can breast feed for several years..... I've heard of kids
still breast feeding at age 6.
Ok ...
Post by SH
So clearly humans can at least drink & digest human milk.....
Ah, yes, 'human milk', milk from and for humans, not milk from a
different species designed (only) for that species. ;-)
Post by SH
What would your thoughts be on harvesting human milk and making cheese,
butter, yoghurt etc out of it?
Well, at least it would be natural (for us to consume, pre weaning)
and as long as the people involved were doing so voluntarily (so
*their choice*) and didn't need to have their babies taken away and
killed ...
Post by SH
(a genuine question rather than an attempt to wind anyone up... :-) )


I think Ricky's reaction is typical of most people that have been
weaned. ;-)

Cheers, T i m
Rod Speed
2021-05-07 19:43:09 UTC
Permalink
Post by SH
Post by T i m
Post by SH
Post by williamwright
Post by Richard
Post by The Natural Philosopher
milk works if they are not agin it
You seem to not grasp the "vegan" bit of this.
Vegans won't have milk because milking a cow kills it.
Bill
Soya milk
Oat milk
coconut milk
Peanut milk
cashew milk
Almond milk
Pistachio milk
They aren't actually 'vegan milk options', they are 'human milk
options' as we should never have been consuming the growth fluid of a
different species in the first place!
Once you have undone all the indoctrination you (we) have been
subjected to for (for most here), many many years you should be able
to see it for the weird behaviour that it has always been.
Now, 'I get' you might stoop to all sorts of levels to do things to
survive but we aren't talking about survival in 2021, well not for a
vast proportion of the population in any case. And given 65% of the
population are lactose intolerant (more intolerant of cows milk than
pretty well anything else), that should give you the clue that maybe
we weren't ever meant to drink it.
Building up a tolerance to something we weren't naturally tolerant to
(because it wasn't meant for us) makes as much sense of keeping
smoking even though it makes you sick until you can do it without
being sick.
Cheers, T i m
Well mothers do produce human milk for their babies. Its also documented
that mothers can breast feed for several years..... I've heard of kids
still breast feeding at age 6.
So clearly humans can at least drink & digest human milk.....
What would your thoughts be on harvesting human milk and making cheese,
butter, yoghurt etc out of it?
Bit of a problem getting enough of it to be useful.

And the brat would starve.
Post by SH
(a genuine question rather than an attempt to wind anyone up... :-) )
A likely story.
williamwright
2021-05-07 12:18:43 UTC
Permalink
Post by T i m
They aren't actually 'vegan milk options', they are 'human milk
options' as we should never have been consuming the growth fluid of a
different species in the first place!
Why not? Who says? Where does this ruling come from? You're doing what
the greeny nutters do, trying to make rules for everyone based on your
minority crackpot ideas.
Post by T i m
Once you have undone all the indoctrination you (we) have been
subjected to for (for most here), many many years you should be able
to see it for the weird behaviour that it has always been.
I'm a member of a species that has co-existed with farm animals for
millennia. That's not indoctrination, it's the natural world as it's
evolved.
Post by T i m
Now, 'I get' you might stoop to all sorts of levels to do things to
survive but we aren't talking about survival in 2021, well not for a
vast proportion of the population in any case. And given 65% of the
population are lactose intolerant (more intolerant of cows milk than
pretty well anything else), that should give you the clue that maybe
we weren't ever meant to drink it.
Got a source for that figure? As it applies to our indigenous
population? I know some effniks have problems with milk.
Post by T i m
Building up a tolerance to something we weren't naturally tolerant to
(because it wasn't meant for us) makes as much sense of keeping
smoking even though it makes you sick until you can do it without
being sick.
No it isn't comparable because smoking is bad for you and milk is good
for you.

Bill
Post by T i m
Cheers, T i m
T i m
2021-05-07 17:59:18 UTC
Permalink
Post by williamwright
Post by T i m
Once you have undone all the indoctrination you (we) have been
subjected to for (for most here), many many years you should be able
to see it for the weird behaviour that it has always been.
I'm a member of a species that has co-existed with farm animals for
millennia. That's not indoctrination, it's the natural world as it's
evolved.
I suspect if T r o l l tried to discuss these views with humans from say 20k
years ago, the response would be short, sharp, and stone-age.
I wouldn't be doing so if we were trying to *SURVIVE* you stupid
Goblin.
He quotes 65% of the population as lactose intolerant. I assume he means the
world population,
Doh!. No, I mean 60% of my local pub or your asylum. <rolls eyes>
since such a number certainly wouldn't apply to just this
country.
No shit sherlock.
Here, we are in the group that is mostly lactose tolerant.
And in other countries / cultures (that think drinking a mothers milk
after you have weaned to be weird) have much greater levels of lactose
intolerance.

https://milk.procon.org/lactose-intolerance-by-country/
And from
what I recall, it's not that the others are intolerant per se, just that their
cultures don't include drinking cows milk later in life.
Bwhaha ... (you are funny).
But ours does, and so
we stay tolerant to it.
Only those who have gained that 'tolerance (to something we shouldn't
have been consuming in the first place) by long term exposure to it.
Hardly an indicator that we were *meant* to consume it eh freak?
This is because if you drink cows milk as a child, and
then stop, the body loses the ability to produce lactase, the enzyme that can
break down lactose, the sugar in milk. Drinking milk as adults is part of our
culture, so talking about intolerance is bollocks.
Aw bless, the stupid goblin tries to conflate science and biology with
culture. Awww ...
Lactase is found in other mammals than humans. We are all born with the
ability to produce it - wouldn't be able to digest human milk otherwise.
Yes, *before we wean' you cow nipple sucking weirdo!
Occasionally you see animals sucking offspring of other species; usually the
latter are orphans.
'Occasional ... so even less than the 40% then? It's the exception
that proves the rule to you does it (I suppose it would if you are
desperately trying to justify your position).
Prhaps T r o l l needs to go have a word with them about
it.
Yeah, of course, because in the world of a sick Goblin desperately
trying to substantiate it's disgusting habit ... they will suddenly
gain the powers of speech?

No, we may have taken the surplus milk from a cow at some point in our
past TO SURVIVE but outside of that, the idea is still *disgusting* to
a very large percentage of the world population ... and I'm not even
talking about the many million who agree (but aren't vegan) and have
moved onto alternative milks that are no only more 'natural' (they
aren't the growth fluid for a different species) but cause fewer
health issues, are more sustainable, far less cruel, create less
pollution, create fewer greenhouse gasses, use far less water and are
more sustainable.

But you carry on sucking on that cows teat baby! ;-)

Cheers, T i m
Fredxx
2021-05-07 19:34:42 UTC
Permalink
Post by T i m
Post by williamwright
Post by T i m
Once you have undone all the indoctrination you (we) have been
subjected to for (for most here), many many years you should be able
to see it for the weird behaviour that it has always been.
I'm a member of a species that has co-existed with farm animals for
millennia. That's not indoctrination, it's the natural world as it's
evolved.
I suspect if T r o l l tried to discuss these views with humans from say 20k
years ago, the response would be short, sharp, and stone-age.
I wouldn't be doing so if we were trying to *SURVIVE* you stupid
Goblin.
He quotes 65% of the population as lactose intolerant. I assume he means the
world population,
Doh!. No, I mean 60% of my local pub or your asylum. <rolls eyes>
Unless your pub is inhabited by Asians or non-western cultures you're lying.
Post by T i m
since such a number certainly wouldn't apply to just this
country.
No shit sherlock.
Here, we are in the group that is mostly lactose tolerant.
And in other countries / cultures (that think drinking a mothers milk
after you have weaned to be weird) have much greater levels of lactose
intolerance.
Given the western World is most advanced perhaps it's not an accident
this is associated with the gene pertaining to lactase persistence.
Post by T i m
https://milk.procon.org/lactose-intolerance-by-country/
So you accept there is an advantage to consuming milk, otherwise the
gene wouldn't be so successful in our advanced cultures.
Post by T i m
And from
what I recall, it's not that the others are intolerant per se, just that their
cultures don't include drinking cows milk later in life.
Bwhaha ... (you are funny).
But ours does, and so
we stay tolerant to it.
Only those who have gained that 'tolerance (to something we shouldn't
have been consuming in the first place) by long term exposure to it.
Hardly an indicator that we were *meant* to consume it eh freak?
Abuse, the MO from a fanatic of a lost argument. The gene wouldn't have
propagated if there wasn't some evolutionary advantage to those with the
gene.
Post by T i m
This is because if you drink cows milk as a child, and
then stop, the body loses the ability to produce lactase, the enzyme that can
break down lactose, the sugar in milk. Drinking milk as adults is part of our
culture, so talking about intolerance is bollocks.
Aw bless, the stupid goblin tries to conflate science and biology with
culture. Awww ...
You mean publish fact you hate top read and wish they weren't true.
Post by T i m
Lactase is found in other mammals than humans. We are all born with the
ability to produce it - wouldn't be able to digest human milk otherwise.
Yes, *before we wean' you cow nipple sucking weirdo!
Is this the softer kind of age restricted animal porn you like to
peddle? Most of us drink it from a cup. I can see you having your weird
dreams.
Post by T i m
Occasionally you see animals sucking offspring of other species; usually the
latter are orphans.
'Occasional ... so even less than the 40% then? It's the exception
that proves the rule to you does it (I suppose it would if you are
desperately trying to justify your position).
No desperation, just a fact you'd rather not read.
Post by T i m
Prhaps T r o l l needs to go have a word with them about
it.
Yeah, of course, because in the world of a sick Goblin desperately
trying to substantiate it's disgusting habit ... they will suddenly
gain the powers of speech?
No, we may have taken the surplus milk from a cow at some point in our
past TO SURVIVE but outside of that, the idea is still *disgusting* to
a very large percentage of the world population ... and I'm not even
talking about the many million who agree (but aren't vegan) and have
moved onto alternative milks that are no only more 'natural' (they
aren't the growth fluid for a different species) but cause fewer
health issues, are more sustainable, far less cruel, create less
pollution, create fewer greenhouse gasses, use far less water and are
more sustainable.
There is nothing disgusting in drinking milk as part of a balanced
natural diet. Only a weirdo would say after thousands of years of this
practice it is disgusting.
Post by T i m
But you carry on sucking on that cows teat baby! ;-)
You are very sad if that is all that enters your mind.
Tim Streater
2021-05-07 16:21:48 UTC
Permalink
Post by T i m
Post by SH
Post by williamwright
Post by Richard
Post by The Natural Philosopher
milk works if they are not agin it
You seem to not grasp the "vegan" bit of this.
Vegans won't have milk because milking a cow kills it.
Bill
Soya milk
Oat milk
coconut milk
Peanut milk
cashew milk
Almond milk
Pistachio milk
They aren't actually 'vegan milk options', they are 'human milk
options' as we should never have been consuming the growth fluid of a
different species in the first place!
Given we have evolved to have the necessary genes to digest lactose in
adulthood, that is not true.
Post by T i m
Once you have undone all the indoctrination you (we) have been
subjected to for (for most here), many many years you should be able
to see it for the weird behaviour that it has always been.
Only weird to fanatical vegans who don't think it's weird to consume
soya milk in its place.
Post by T i m
Now, 'I get' you might stoop to all sorts of levels to do things to
survive but we aren't talking about survival in 2021, well not for a
vast proportion of the population in any case. And given 65% of the
population are lactose intolerant (more intolerant of cows milk than
pretty well anything else), that should give you the clue that maybe
we weren't ever meant to drink it.
The western population has the gene to process lactose. If you were
Asian then I would extend my sympathies to your inability to digest milk.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lactase_persistence
Post by T i m
Building up a tolerance to something we weren't naturally tolerant to
(because it wasn't meant for us) makes as much sense of keeping
smoking even though it makes you sick until you can do it without
being sick.
You're now talking gibberish.
He's talking bollocks. We are naturally tolerant towards lactose. Every baby
is.

Anothe faceplant from T r o l l , who would be well advised to do a bit of
research before sounding off.
--
What power have you got?
Where did you get it from?
In whose interests do you use it?
To whom are you accountable?
How do we get rid of you?

Tony Benn
ARW
2021-05-07 17:32:34 UTC
Permalink
Post by Tim Streater
Post by T i m
Post by SH
Post by williamwright
Post by Richard
Post by The Natural Philosopher
milk works if they are not agin it
You seem to not grasp the "vegan" bit of this.
Vegans won't have milk because milking a cow kills it.
Bill
Soya milk
Oat milk
coconut milk
Peanut milk
cashew milk
Almond milk
Pistachio milk
They aren't actually 'vegan milk options', they are 'human milk
options' as we should never have been consuming the growth fluid of a
different species in the first place!
Given we have evolved to have the necessary genes to digest lactose in
adulthood, that is not true.
Post by T i m
Once you have undone all the indoctrination you (we) have been
subjected to for (for most here), many many years you should be able
to see it for the weird behaviour that it has always been.
Only weird to fanatical vegans who don't think it's weird to consume
soya milk in its place.
Post by T i m
Now, 'I get' you might stoop to all sorts of levels to do things to
survive but we aren't talking about survival in 2021, well not for a
vast proportion of the population in any case. And given 65% of the
population are lactose intolerant (more intolerant of cows milk than
pretty well anything else), that should give you the clue that maybe
we weren't ever meant to drink it.
The western population has the gene to process lactose. If you were
Asian then I would extend my sympathies to your inability to digest milk.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lactase_persistence
Post by T i m
Building up a tolerance to something we weren't naturally tolerant to
(because it wasn't meant for us) makes as much sense of keeping
smoking even though it makes you sick until you can do it without
being sick.
You're now talking gibberish.
He's talking bollocks. We are naturally tolerant towards lactose. Every baby
is.
Anothe faceplant from T r o l l , who would be well advised to do a bit of
research before sounding off.
Nutters never let facts get in the way of their made up stats.
--
Adam
T i m
2021-05-07 19:41:20 UTC
Permalink
On 7 May 2021 16:21:48 GMT, Tim Streater <***@greenbee.net>
wrote:

<snip>
Post by Tim Streater
Post by T i m
Building up a tolerance to something we weren't naturally tolerant to
(because it wasn't meant for us) makes as much sense of keeping
smoking even though it makes you sick until you can do it without
being sick.
You're now talking gibberish.
He's talking bollocks.
Aww, poor stupid Goblin ...
Post by Tim Streater
We are naturally tolerant towards lactose.
Nope.
Post by Tim Streater
Every baby
is.
Oh look, a great big lump of disingenuous troll shit there, like
*anyone* was talking about babies.

When *normal people* talk of 'lactose intolerance we are (of course)
referring to it in it's more complete description of 'Adult lactose
intolerance'.
Post by Tim Streater
Anothe faceplant from T r o l l ,
Oh, beautiful, that mirror rebound faceplant must *really* hurt eh
Goblin!
Post by Tim Streater
who would be well advised to do a bit of
research before sounding off.
Ah, yes, you and your research. I think you must have confused the
word 'research from 'guesswork' as so far, that's all you seem to have
come up with!

So, when we are babies you think the best thing we can have is cows
milk and the best thing (all round, for us, the environment, the cows,
in 2021) is to carry on drinking the growth fluid you should have
never been drinking in the first place (because it's from a different
species, unless you *are* a baby cow and that would make much more
sense) even though after all these years, over 60% of the (world)
population is *still* intolerant to it!?

If I was trying to convince you to drink cows milk for the first time
*today*, you would have every right to consider me weird (because it
is).

Now, I get the 'I drink cows milk because I've always drunk it, there
weren't that many alternatives in those days and I'd never really
considered the negatives ...', and that because you are old and
obviously don't care about animals, don't see any reason why you
should do anything more informed or progressive today.

You would also have been of the last one to get rid of your slaves and
stop bear baiting. :-(

Cheers, T i m
Fredxx
2021-05-08 01:13:59 UTC
Permalink
Post by T i m
<snip>
Post by Tim Streater
Post by T i m
Building up a tolerance to something we weren't naturally tolerant to
(because it wasn't meant for us) makes as much sense of keeping
smoking even though it makes you sick until you can do it without
being sick.
You're now talking gibberish.
He's talking bollocks.
Aww, poor stupid Goblin ...
Post by Tim Streater
We are naturally tolerant towards lactose.
Nope.
We are, however much you would like it to be otherwise.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lactase_persistence
Post by T i m
Post by Tim Streater
Every baby
is.
Oh look, a great big lump of disingenuous troll shit there, like
*anyone* was talking about babies.
When *normal people* talk of 'lactose intolerance we are (of course)
referring to it in it's more complete description of 'Adult lactose
intolerance'.
Which is rare in the Western World:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lactase_persistence
Post by T i m
Post by Tim Streater
Anothe faceplant from T r o l l ,
Oh, beautiful, that mirror rebound faceplant must *really* hurt eh
Goblin!
I guess it did from your desperation.
Post by T i m
Post by Tim Streater
who would be well advised to do a bit of
research before sounding off.
Ah, yes, you and your research. I think you must have confused the
word 'research from 'guesswork' as so far, that's all you seem to have
come up with!
So, when we are babies you think the best thing we can have is cows
milk
Actually it is recommended that babies drink their mother's breast milk.
Post by T i m
and the best thing (all round, for us, the environment, the cows,
in 2021) is to carry on drinking the growth fluid you should have
never been drinking in the first place (because it's from a different
species, unless you *are* a baby cow and that would make much more
sense) even though after all these years, over 60% of the (world)
population is *still* intolerant to it!?
You are an idiot. You have been told many times that the native
population of the developed western world has evolved a gene to digest
milk in adulthood.

Only a fanatic would continue to be blind to the facts.
Post by T i m
If I was trying to convince you to drink cows milk for the first time
*today*, you would have every right to consider me weird (because it
is).
If it was for the first time there is a chance we might not have evolved
to posses the gene to digest milk.
Post by T i m
Now, I get the 'I drink cows milk because I've always drunk it, there
weren't that many alternatives in those days and I'd never really
considered the negatives ...', and that because you are old and
obviously don't care about animals, don't see any reason why you
should do anything more informed or progressive today.
From someone who admits they don't care about animal welfare while the
animal is a alive that's a bit rich. Some of do care about animal
welfare, while you don't.
Post by T i m
You would also have been of the last one to get rid of your slaves and
stop bear baiting. :-(
That is a strange accusation. Which can only be made from someone who is
envious we are free to do what we like (within laws and social morals),
drink what we like, and eat what we like. And we are allowed to use eggs
for glazing pasties and breads.

This envy is eating away at your soul. Please get help.
T i m
2021-05-08 09:49:07 UTC
Permalink
On Sat, 8 May 2021 02:13:59 +0100, Fredxx <***@nospam.co.uk> wrote:

<snip bs unread>

Just in case this saves you some time, let me tell you how I use my
newsreader.

When I first open it it's not set to download any new headers, I click
on that manually.

Then I see any new threads, threads with new messages and new messages
in those threads (if expanded or when I expand them) marked in red.

If I see a reply from you, Spike, crazy-dave and a few others I
typically don't open them (especially when I know you are likely to be
spouting more trolling bollox), just reading the normals and for a
laugh, the Squeaker Goblin and Turnip etc.

When I check again for new messages, it changes the colour of the red
ones to black and hence they disappear into the background, never to
be read.

So, given it's pretty obvious you are never going to stop causing
animals to die and suffer unnecessarily ... just for your personal
pleasure and it's patently obvious to any normal person that vegans
don't do that, I *really* DGAF what BS you have to say on the subject
so please don't bother on my behalf (as I'm never going back to
causing animals to suffer and die, just because you (trolls) do).

Cheers, T i m
Spike
2021-05-08 12:36:38 UTC
Permalink
Post by T i m
Just in case this saves you some time, let me tell you how I use my
newsreader.
When I first open it it's not set to download any new headers, I click
on that manually.
Then I see any new threads, threads with new messages and new messages
in those threads (if expanded or when I expand them) marked in red.
If I see a reply from you, Spike, crazy-dave and a few others I
typically don't open them (especially when I know you are likely to be
spouting more trolling bollox), just reading the normals and for a
laugh, the Squeaker Goblin and Turnip etc.
IOW, you don't like your *claims* being countered by *facts*. This
thread has contained good examples of that.
--
Spike
Fredxx
2021-05-08 12:45:30 UTC
Permalink
Post by T i m
<snip bs unread>
Facts you dare not read.

You come across as being intensely ignorant in the RW with your head
firmly planted in the sand.
ARW
2021-05-08 18:17:24 UTC
Permalink
Post by Fredxx
Post by T i m
<snip bs unread>
Facts you dare not read.
You come across as being intensely ignorant in the RW with your head
firmly planted in the sand.
Next weekends dinner sorted.

Ostrich steaks.
--
Adam
GB
2021-05-08 18:26:03 UTC
Permalink
Post by ARW
Post by Fredxx
Post by T i m
<snip bs unread>
Facts you dare not read.
You come across as being intensely ignorant in the RW with your head
firmly planted in the sand.
Next weekends dinner sorted.
Ostrich steaks.
If you are going to eat animal, ostrich steaks are one of the most
nutritious. White meat. Very lean. Really, quite good for you, if not
for the ostrich. I hope I'm not putting you off?
ARW
2021-05-09 16:15:29 UTC
Permalink
Post by GB
Post by ARW
Post by Fredxx
Post by T i m
<snip bs unread>
Facts you dare not read.
You come across as being intensely ignorant in the RW with your head
firmly planted in the sand.
Next weekends dinner sorted.
Ostrich steaks.
If you are going to eat animal, ostrich steaks are one of the most
nutritious. White meat. Very lean. Really, quite good for you, if not
for the ostrich. I hope I'm not putting you off?
Why would it put me off?

I have worked in an abattoir, a meat processing factory and a Halal
chicken slaughterhouse. I have also shot and eaten game.


If push came to shove and a law was introduced that you had to kill and
prepare the animal you ate then I would still be a meat eater.


I really have no problems with it.

And I claim first dibs on the mountain oysters.
--
Adam
Fredxx
2021-05-08 18:27:26 UTC
Permalink
Post by ARW
Post by Fredxx
Post by T i m
<snip bs unread>
Facts you dare not read.
You come across as being intensely ignorant in the RW with your head
firmly planted in the sand.
Next weekends dinner sorted.
Ostrich steaks.
Something I have never eaten.
Rod Speed
2021-05-08 19:21:57 UTC
Permalink
Post by ARW
Post by Fredxx
Post by T i m
<snip bs unread>
Facts you dare not read.
You come across as being intensely ignorant in the RW with your head
firmly planted in the sand.
Next weekends dinner sorted.
Ostrich steaks.
We've told the zoo what you are up to. You'll be soorree...
Peeler
2021-05-08 21:30:13 UTC
Permalink
On Sun, 9 May 2021 05:21:57 +1000, cantankerous trolling geezer Rodent
Speed, the auto-contradicting senile sociopath, blabbered, again:

<FLUSH the trolling senile asshole's latest trollshit unread>
--
Xeno to senile Rodent:
"You're a sad old man Rod, truly sad."
MID: <***@mid.individual.net>
Rod Speed
2021-05-07 19:19:05 UTC
Permalink
Post by T i m
Post by SH
Post by williamwright
Post by Richard
Post by The Natural Philosopher
milk works if they are not agin it
You seem to not grasp the "vegan" bit of this.
Vegans won't have milk because milking a cow kills it.
Bill
Soya milk
Oat milk
coconut milk
Peanut milk
cashew milk
Almond milk
Pistachio milk
They aren't actually 'vegan milk options', they are 'human
milk options' as we should never have been consuming
the growth fluid of a different species in the first place!
But its fine to munch of the sexual organs of plants ?

Completely off with the fucking fairys, as always.
T i m
2021-05-07 11:13:53 UTC
Permalink
P.S.
https://secretldn.com/la-fauxmagerie-cheesemonger/
https://shop.lafauxmagerie.com/
Apparently you can have cheeses through the post if London is too far
away for you to travel.
Or you can buy it in pretty well any supermarket. ;-)

I used to like the occasional bit of cheese, a strong cheddar
typically but was warned off 'dairy' by my doctor for health reasons a
good few years ago (as has my BIL).

Vegan cheese (scheese) isn't the same taste as cows milk cheese but
the general texture is there , as is the meltability (as in cheese on
toast) and is fine on say a pizza (Pappa John's do a fair range of
vegan pizzas, as do most of them of course now) but it's not yet quite
the same.

However, what we are doing then is comparing the taste of something we
are used to, something we shouldn't have been consuming in the first
place ('cows milk' was meant for 'cows', not humans (same with goat
milk etc)) the same applies to anything made from it, like butter and
cheese.

So, it's not 'going without' anything, it's not assuming you can have
something you have stolen from someone else.

Cheers, T i m
williamwright
2021-05-07 12:11:15 UTC
Permalink
Post by T i m
Vegan cheese (scheese) isn't the same taste as cows milk cheese
I bet it isn't!
Post by T i m
However, what we are doing then is comparing the taste of something we
are used to, something we shouldn't have been consuming in the first
place ('cows milk' was meant for 'cows', not humans (same with goat
milk etc))
"Was meant for"? Who by? God? Your mindset is very weird.
Post by T i m
So, it's not 'going without' anything, it's not assuming you can have
something you have stolen from someone else.
How can you steal from a cow that you own? Cows with full udders are
damned glad when milking time comes.

Humans assume that we can make full use of the natural world because
there's no reason why not. We are the dominant species after all. Rape
loot and pillage, that's what I say.

Bill
newshound
2021-05-07 16:19:04 UTC
Permalink
Post by T i m
However, what we are doing then is comparing the taste of something we
are used to, something we shouldn't have been consuming in the first
place ('cows milk' was meant for 'cows', not humans
But humans have *evolved* to be able to consume it (at least, a lot
can). So how do you justify that statement?
Tim Streater
2021-05-07 16:25:36 UTC
Permalink
Post by newshound
Post by T i m
However, what we are doing then is comparing the taste of something we
are used to, something we shouldn't have been consuming in the first
place ('cows milk' was meant for 'cows', not humans
But humans have *evolved* to be able to consume it (at least, a lot
can). So how do you justify that statement?
He can't, beacuse what humans and other mammals have done is evolve to consume
milk - full stop. Huamn milk has a different make-up to cows milk, but both
contain lactose.
--
Labour - a bunch of rich people convincing poor people to vote for rich people
by telling poor people that "other" rich people are the reason they are poor.

Peter Thompson
T i m
2021-05-07 17:37:19 UTC
Permalink
Post by Tim Streater
Post by newshound
Post by T i m
However, what we are doing then is comparing the taste of something we
are used to, something we shouldn't have been consuming in the first
place ('cows milk' was meant for 'cows', not humans
But humans have *evolved* to be able to consume it (at least, a lot
can). So how do you justify that statement?
He can't, beacuse what humans and other mammals have done is evolve to consume
milk - full stop.
Bwhahahahaa ... stupid Goblin, like you would have a clue about any of
this, you are *way* too old and stupid!
Post by Tim Streater
Huamn milk has a different make-up to cows milk, but both
contain lactose.
Doh, strange that a lot more than 60% of the population aren't
intolerant to the milk from their same *SPECIES* you weird freak!

And worse, we are talking about your sucking on a cows teat when you
are a big boy and supposed to be on solids!!!

Feck, even a calf doesn't keep drinking it's mothers milk as it grows
up, something you could try doing (growing up).

Cheers, T i m

ps. Infant *milk allergies* are rarely any form of lactose intolerance
and only one in 50 have it. *Massive* difference to adult lactose
intolerance levels of over 1 in 2.
Fredxx
2021-05-07 19:11:14 UTC
Permalink
Post by T i m
Post by Tim Streater
Post by newshound
Post by T i m
However, what we are doing then is comparing the taste of something we
are used to, something we shouldn't have been consuming in the first
place ('cows milk' was meant for 'cows', not humans
But humans have *evolved* to be able to consume it (at least, a lot
can). So how do you justify that statement?
He can't, beacuse what humans and other mammals have done is evolve to consume
milk - full stop.
Bwhahahahaa ... stupid Goblin, like you would have a clue about any of
this, you are *way* too old and stupid!
Given the quality of your posts and the errors you call fact you try to
propagate as being true he has more of a clue than yourself.
Post by T i m
Post by Tim Streater
Huamn milk has a different make-up to cows milk, but both
contain lactose.
Doh, strange that a lot more than 60% of the population aren't
intolerant to the milk from their same *SPECIES* you weird freak!
Lactose intolerance comes with age, where those so affected when they
become adults lose the ability to digest milk. It is why the gene is
called lactase persistence.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lactase_persistence

The only freak is the one who is in denial that most people in the
western world has evolved the appropriate gene to digest lactose.
Post by T i m
And worse, we are talking about your sucking on a cows teat when you
are a big boy and supposed to be on solids!!!
Is this the softer kind of age restricted animal porn you like to
peddle? Most of us drink it from a cup. I can see you having your weird
dreams.
Post by T i m
Feck, even a calf doesn't keep drinking it's mothers milk as it grows
up, something you could try doing (growing up).
That is because cattle doesn't have the gene most of us have to enable
the calf to digest milk into older age.

You're coming across as being intensely ignorant in these matters.To
much indoctrination.
Post by T i m
Cheers, T i m
ps. Infant *milk allergies* are rarely any form of lactose intolerance
and only one in 50 have it. *Massive* difference to adult lactose
intolerance levels of over 1 in 2.
That might be true if you're Asian, but not true in the western world
where 100% of Irish people are predicted to be lactase persistent.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lactase_persistence
Fredxx
2021-05-07 16:29:55 UTC
Permalink
Post by newshound
Post by T i m
However, what we are doing then is comparing the taste of something we
are used to, something we shouldn't have been consuming in the first
place ('cows milk' was meant for 'cows', not humans
But humans have *evolved* to be able to consume it (at least, a lot
can). So how do you justify that statement?
He can't, his hatred towards milk drinkers is down to envy.

https://www.irishtimes.com/life-and-style/health-family/being-vegan-i-m-jealous-of-everyone-who-suddenly-seems-to-be-eating-anything-with-a-face-1.2557070
Fredxx
2021-05-07 19:24:23 UTC
Permalink
On Fri, 7 May 2021 17:19:04 +0100, newshound
Post by newshound
Post by T i m
However, what we are doing then is comparing the taste of something we
are used to, something we shouldn't have been consuming in the first
place ('cows milk' was meant for 'cows', not humans
But humans have *evolved* to be able to consume it (at least, a lot
can).
More than 60+% of the population can't so if that was an EU referendum
result that would be a win to 'The world population is lactose
intolerant. ;-)
Post by newshound
So how do you justify that statement?
Do you really think I would need to justify a statement re humans
evolving a tolerance to something we should never have been consuming
in the first place?
Not when it doesn't suit your flavour of fanaticism, of course not.

Contrary to your belief, we should be consuming milk as part of natural,
balanced diet.
Did we have to become tolerant to our mothers milk, apples, nuts or
berries (we as in the vast majority, not some obscure cases)?
Tolerance for most animals is only in the infant stage. It is lost
through maturity, except for us humans of course.
Rod Speed
2021-05-08 02:53:09 UTC
Permalink
Post by T i m
However, what we are doing then is comparing the taste of something we
are used to, something we shouldn't have been consuming in the first
place ('cows milk' was meant for 'cows', not humans
But humans have *evolved* to be able to consume it (at least, a lot can).
Just as true of meat.
So how do you justify that statement?
Same mindless bullshit he spews about meat.
Peeler
2021-05-08 08:57:21 UTC
Permalink
On Sat, 8 May 2021 12:53:09 +1000, cantankerous trolling geezer Rodent
Speed, the auto-contradicting senile sociopath, blabbered, again:

<FLUSH the trolling senile asshole's latest trollshit>
--
***@down.the.farm about senile Rot Speed:
"This is like having a conversation with someone with brain damage."
MID: <ps10v9$uo2$***@gioia.aioe.org>
Spike
2021-05-08 08:09:17 UTC
Permalink
Post by newshound
Post by T i m
However, what we are doing then is comparing the taste of something we
are used to, something we shouldn't have been consuming in the first
place ('cows milk' was meant for 'cows', not humans
But humans have *evolved* to be able to consume it (at least, a lot
can).
More than 60+% of the population can't
Claptrap. Unadulterated claptrap.

If humans hadn't been able to process lactose, humans would not have
succeeded as a species.
--
Spike
Tim Streater
2021-05-08 11:00:14 UTC
Permalink
Post by Spike
Post by newshound
Post by T i m
However, what we are doing then is comparing the taste of something we
are used to, something we shouldn't have been consuming in the first
place ('cows milk' was meant for 'cows', not humans
But humans have *evolved* to be able to consume it (at least, a lot
can).
More than 60+% of the population can't
Claptrap. Unadulterated claptrap.
If humans hadn't been able to process lactose, humans would not have
succeeded as a species.
T r o l l still hasn't grasped the basics, namely that we are all (all
mammals, that is) born with the ability to process lactose. From Wikipedia:

"Infant mammals nurse on their mothers to drink milk, which is rich in
lactose."

so that includes humans, most particularly babies.

Winky goes on to say:

"Many people with ancestry in Europe, West Asia, South Asia, the Sahel belt in
West Africa, East Africa and a few other parts of Central Africa maintain
lactase production into adulthood. In many of these areas, milk from mammals
such as cattle, goats, and sheep is used as a large source of food. Hence, it
was in these regions that genes for lifelong lactase production first evolved.
The genes of adult lactose tolerance have evolved independently in various
ethnic groups. By descent, more than 70% of western Europeans can digest
lactose as adults, compared with less than 30% of people from areas of Africa,
eastern and south-eastern Asia and Oceania."

So as I said before, at the root of it is whether your culture included
drinking milk. If it did, then over the millenia your group might well evolve
genes to enable drinking into adulthood, as that would confer an evolutionary
advantage.

Speaking of drinking fluids from other species, T r o l l might like to have
a friendly word with various ant species, which farm aphids and use their
secretions as food. The benefit to the aphids is protection from predators.
--
"That excessive bail ought not to be required, nor excessive fines imposed,
nor cruel and unusual punishments inflicted" -- Bill of Rights 1689
T i m
2021-05-08 12:30:47 UTC
Permalink
On 8 May 2021 11:00:14 GMT, Tim Streater <***@greenbee.net>
wrote:

<snip>
Post by Tim Streater
T r o l l still hasn't grasped the basics, namely that we are all (all
"Infant mammals nurse on their mothers to drink milk, which is rich in
lactose."
so that includes humans, most particularly babies.
Yes, and? Where does wiki say that human babies are best raised on
cows milk?
Post by Tim Streater
"Many people with ancestry in Europe, West Asia, South Asia, the Sahel belt in
West Africa, East Africa and a few other parts of Central Africa maintain
lactase production into adulthood. In many of these areas, milk from mammals
such as cattle, goats, and sheep is used as a large source of food.
Yup, for them it's normally called 'survival' rather than choice.
Post by Tim Streater
Hence, it
was in these regions that genes for lifelong lactase production first evolved.
The genes of adult lactose tolerance have evolved independently in various
ethnic groups. By descent, more than 70% of western Europeans can digest
lactose as adults, compared with less than 30% of people from areas of Africa,
eastern and south-eastern Asia and Oceania."
Yup, because of the circumstances / cultures / religions of 'some
people', those people have *developed a tolerance to something they
were never designed in nature to consume, certainly after they had
weaned themselves*.

Humans were ,meant to drink human mother breast milk, cow calves were
meant to drink cow mother breast milk, etc etc.
Post by Tim Streater
So as I said before, at the root of it is whether your culture included
drinking milk. If it did, then over the millenia your group might well evolve
genes to enable drinking into adulthood, as that would confer an evolutionary
advantage.
Yup, but still very very weird in 2021, not the 1821 that the Squeaker
Goblin was born and still lives in.
Post by Tim Streater
Speaking of drinking fluids from other species, T r o l l might like to have
a friendly word with various ant species, which farm aphids and use their
secretions as food.
Ah, so now the Goblin thinks we should use ants as a guide for our
morals and ethics!
Post by Tim Streater
The benefit to the aphids is protection from predators.
If only then we weren't slaughtering all those cows and calves just
for you to be able to drink the growth fluid that was meant for the
calves and not you, we could say we had a symbiotic relationship like
the ants ... Do the ants artificially inseminate the aphid as well?

https://ibb.co/G0VSBDw

Cheers, T i m
Spike
2021-05-08 12:42:50 UTC
Permalink
Post by T i m
Yup, because of the circumstances / cultures / religions of 'some
people', those people have *developed a tolerance to something they
were never designed in nature to consume, certainly after they had
weaned themselves*.
Claptrap. Pure, unadulterated claptrap.

People do not "...[develop] a tolerance to something they were never
designed in nature to consume...", they have the ability to digest it
*from* *birth*. HTH.
--
Spike
Fredxx
2021-05-08 12:43:43 UTC
Permalink
Post by T i m
<snip>
Post by Tim Streater
T r o l l still hasn't grasped the basics, namely that we are all (all
"Infant mammals nurse on their mothers to drink milk, which is rich in
lactose."
so that includes humans, most particularly babies.
Yes, and? Where does wiki say that human babies are best raised on
cows milk?
Post by Tim Streater
"Many people with ancestry in Europe, West Asia, South Asia, the Sahel belt in
West Africa, East Africa and a few other parts of Central Africa maintain
lactase production into adulthood. In many of these areas, milk from mammals
such as cattle, goats, and sheep is used as a large source of food.
Yup, for them it's normally called 'survival' rather than choice.
I survive each day and eat meat as a natural balanced diet. Need, want,
choice are meaningless words in the context of human emotion. Very few,
as a proportion to world population, succumb to famine.
Post by T i m
Post by Tim Streater
Hence, it
was in these regions that genes for lifelong lactase production first evolved.
The genes of adult lactose tolerance have evolved independently in various
ethnic groups. By descent, more than 70% of western Europeans can digest
lactose as adults, compared with less than 30% of people from areas of Africa,
eastern and south-eastern Asia and Oceania."
Yup, because of the circumstances / cultures / religions of 'some
people', those people have *developed a tolerance to something they
were never designed in nature to consume, certainly after they had
weaned themselves*.
That is perhaps what has held them back, while the rest of the world
with the lactase persistent gene advanced through industrialisation.
Post by T i m
Humans were ,meant to drink human mother breast milk, cow calves were
meant to drink cow mother breast milk, etc etc.
Some species have, of course, evolved to drink milk into maturity.
Post by T i m
Post by Tim Streater
So as I said before, at the root of it is whether your culture included
drinking milk. If it did, then over the millenia your group might well evolve
genes to enable drinking into adulthood, as that would confer an evolutionary
advantage.
Yup, but still very very weird in 2021, not the 1821 that the Squeaker
Goblin was born and still lives in.
It is only weird to fanatical vegans, envious our loved ones allow us to
drink milk.
Post by T i m
Post by Tim Streater
Speaking of drinking fluids from other species, T r o l l might like to have
a friendly word with various ant species, which farm aphids and use their
secretions as food.
Ah, so now the Goblin thinks we should use ants as a guide for our
morals and ethics!
Given they have a social structure and are sentient beings, they can be
no worse that your morals.
Tim Streater
2021-05-08 15:26:16 UTC
Permalink
Post by T i m
<snip>
Post by Tim Streater
T r o l l still hasn't grasped the basics, namely that we are all (all
"Infant mammals nurse on their mothers to drink milk, which is rich in
lactose."
so that includes humans, most particularly babies.
Yes, and? Where does wiki say that human babies are best raised on
cows milk?
It doesn't, and they aren't, and no one has suggested they should be.
Post by T i m
Yup, because of the circumstances / cultures / religions of 'some
people', those people have *developed a tolerance to something they
were never designed in nature to consume, certainly after they had
weaned themselves*.
No, shit-for-brains, they haven't developed a tolerance. The point is thay
*haven't* developed an *intolerance*.

Which is not the same thing at all. Getting a clue yet?
--
"That which can be asserted without evidence, can be dismissed without
evidence."
-- Christopher Hitchens
T i m
2021-05-08 18:07:31 UTC
Permalink
Post by Tim Streater
Post by T i m
<snip>
Post by Tim Streater
T r o l l still hasn't grasped the basics, namely that we are all (all
"Infant mammals nurse on their mothers to drink milk, which is rich in
lactose."
so that includes humans, most particularly babies.
Yes, and? Where does wiki say that human babies are best raised on
cows milk?
It doesn't, and they aren't, and no one has suggested they should be.
So why the (/YOUR) focus / distraction with babies then?
Post by Tim Streater
Post by T i m
Yup, because of the circumstances / cultures / religions of 'some
people', those people have *developed a tolerance to something they
were never designed in nature to consume, certainly after they had
weaned themselves*.
No, shit-for-brains, they haven't developed a tolerance. The point is thay
*haven't* developed an *intolerance*.
Semantics (re the actual point of course).
Post by Tim Streater
Which is not the same thing at all. Getting a clue yet?
Let's see (and see how much harder your faceplant ends up being ...)

So, when you are a baby you (naturally) drink the milk (of the same
species) until you are weaned, *THEN YOU STOP DRINKING MILK AND GO
ONTO SOLIDS* (shit-for-brains).

If you then (unnaturally) *continue drinking milk, after you have
weaned*, yes, you *then* continue the infant lactose tolerance.

But no animal does that so WTF do you think it's 'perfectly natural'
that we do, and if we then do again, after we have weaned, as adults,
there is a more than 60% chance (worldwide) that we will then be
intolerant of it?

What part of any of that makes you think it's something that we should
be doing, especially as adults in 2021? The fact that we have taken
thousands of years to become tollerant to a food that was never meant
for us in the first place (and the children of mothers have to be
killed for us to have) doesn't ring any alarm bells with you?

Well, it might be different for you as you are probably now back on
rusks and eat your solids blended though a straw. ;-(

So, just so you realise what we are *actually* talking about (before
you try any more desperate distraction bollox) ...

OK, a little backgrounder for you on what cows would look like in
nature and when we exploit them (into milk making machines):
https://ibb.co/XVHHvxf

Does this look comfortable for her (should you give a fcuk etc)?
https://ibb.co/59x8X9c

Does this look like she could run from a predator easily?
https://ibb.co/qRQD1MV

Look how proud they are about what they are doing ...
https://ibb.co/54WVzw1

Another reason why we should be using alternatives:
https://ibb.co/RNfst01

Plus all the methane, pollution, waste, suffering and death, I really
don't know why anyone would support it (in 2021).

Well, I do ... it's because 'that's what they have always done' *so*
it's ok to carry on doing it. No chance of any updating their views to
match the changing circumstances or even any consideration for the
animals themselves, now they have such a massive range of
alternatives?

Try any justify it if you like but you won't change the *fact* that
suckling on the teat of a different species is both weird and
unnatural.

https://ibb.co/CvQTxM5

Cheers, T i m
Tim Streater
2021-05-08 21:55:48 UTC
Permalink
Post by T i m
Post by Tim Streater
Post by T i m
<snip>
Post by Tim Streater
T r o l l still hasn't grasped the basics, namely that we are all (all
"Infant mammals nurse on their mothers to drink milk, which is rich in
lactose."
so that includes humans, most particularly babies.
Yes, and? Where does wiki say that human babies are best raised on
cows milk?
It doesn't, and they aren't, and no one has suggested they should be.
So why the (/YOUR) focus / distraction with babies then?
It's not a distraction, it's part of the discussion.
Post by T i m
Post by Tim Streater
Post by T i m
Yup, because of the circumstances / cultures / religions of 'some
people', those people have *developed a tolerance to something they
were never designed in nature to consume, certainly after they had
weaned themselves*.
No, shit-for-brains, they haven't developed a tolerance. The point is thay
*haven't* developed an *intolerance*.
Semantics (re the actual point of course).
Meaning that you can't tell the difference. Figures.
Post by T i m
Post by Tim Streater
Which is not the same thing at all. Getting a clue yet?
Let's see (and see how much harder your faceplant ends up being ...)
So, when you are a baby you (naturally) drink the milk (of the same
species) until you are weaned, *THEN YOU STOP DRINKING MILK AND GO
ONTO SOLIDS* (shit-for-brains).
Ooh look, you're talking about babies. But I thought that for you they're not
relevant.
Post by T i m
If you then (unnaturally) *continue drinking milk, after you have
weaned*, yes, you *then* continue the infant lactose tolerance.
Ah good, you're starting to show understanding of the point. Which is all
about us all starting *with* the tolerance (or, expressed more usefully, we
start with the *ability* to digest the lactose in milk (any milk, note) and
then we might or might not lose it).
Post by T i m
But no animal does that so WTF do you think it's 'perfectly natural'
that we do, and if we then do again, after we have weaned, as adults,
there is a more than 60% chance (worldwide) that we will then be
intolerant of it?
Mmm oh dear, I thought I was being over-optimistic. It is, of course,
perfectly natural for one species to exploit another, and be exploited right
back. I've already mentioned ants, and we could also mention the bacteria we
permit to live in our gut, which excrete B-vitamins for our benefit, then
there are the mitochondria in every one of our body cells which provide us
with energy in exchange for free grub. Or the microscopic mites which live on
your eyelashes and oil them (not quite sure why that's a benefit to us).

These are all symbiotic relationships between species, and nature abounds with
them.
Post by T i m
What part of any of that makes you think it's something that we should
be doing, especially as adults in 2021? The fact that we have taken
thousands of years to become tollerant to a food that was never meant
for us in the first place (and the children of mothers have to be
killed for us to have) doesn't ring any alarm bells with you?
As you continually fail to appreciate, the tolerance is something we are born
with.
--
The whole aim of practical politics is to keep the populace alarmed (and hence
clamorous to be led to safety) by menacing it with an endless series of
hobgoblins, all of them imaginary.

HL Mencken
T i m
2021-05-09 08:33:04 UTC
Permalink
On 8 May 2021 21:55:48 GMT, Tim Streater <***@greenbee.net>
wrote:
<snip>
Post by Tim Streater
Post by T i m
Post by Tim Streater
Post by T i m
Post by Tim Streater
T r o l l still hasn't grasped the basics, namely that we are all (all
"Infant mammals nurse on their mothers to drink milk, which is rich in
lactose."
so that includes humans, most particularly babies.
Yes, and? Where does wiki say that human babies are best raised on
cows milk?
It doesn't, and they aren't, and no one has suggested they should be.
So why the (/YOUR) focus / distraction with babies then?
It's not a distraction, it's part of the discussion.
If we are born with lactose tolerance then lactose tolerance in
infants is not and never has been 'the discussion re 'lactose
intolerance' in adults which is what we mean where we are talking of
such. So it's not and never has been part of the discussion about how
*adults* not only shouldn't (and typically don't) drink growth fluid
of our own species but certainly shouldn't drink the growth fluid of a
different species!
Post by Tim Streater
Post by T i m
Post by Tim Streater
Post by T i m
Yup, because of the circumstances / cultures / religions of 'some
people', those people have *developed a tolerance to something they
were never designed in nature to consume, certainly after they had
weaned themselves*.
No, shit-for-brains, they haven't developed a tolerance. The point is thay
*haven't* developed an *intolerance*.
Semantics (re the actual point of course).
Meaning that you can't tell the difference. Figures.
Nope, I fully understand the difference but it's only semantics as
it's not relevant *to the point*.
Post by Tim Streater
Post by T i m
Post by Tim Streater
Which is not the same thing at all. Getting a clue yet?
Let's see (and see how much harder your faceplant ends up being ...)
So, when you are a baby you (naturally) drink the milk (of the same
species) until you are weaned, *THEN YOU STOP DRINKING MILK AND GO
ONTO SOLIDS* (shit-for-brains).
Ooh look, you're talking about babies. But I thought that for you they're not
relevant.
Only for the means of proving your attempt of distraction.
Post by Tim Streater
Post by T i m
If you then (unnaturally) *continue drinking milk, after you have
weaned*, yes, you *then* continue the infant lactose tolerance.
Ah good, you're starting to show understanding of the point.
Your (irrelevant) point.
Post by Tim Streater
Which is all
about us all starting *with* the tolerance (or, expressed more usefully, we
start with the *ability* to digest the lactose in milk (any milk, note) and
then we might or might not lose it).
We generally did lose it, just that continuous exposure to it has
allowed us to maintain a tolerance to it.
Post by Tim Streater
Post by T i m
But no animal does that so WTF do you think it's 'perfectly natural'
that we do, and if we then do again, after we have weaned, as adults,
there is a more than 60% chance (worldwide) that we will then be
intolerant of it?
Mmm oh dear, I thought I was being over-optimistic.
You are very simple that's for sure.
Post by Tim Streater
It is, of course,
perfectly natural for one species to exploit another, and be exploited right
back.
Except we are talking about *human* exploitation of other species
here, nothing else (so yet another strawman from you).
Post by Tim Streater
I've already mentioned ants, and we could also mention the bacteria we
permit to live in our gut, which excrete B-vitamins for our benefit, then
there are the mitochondria in every one of our body cells which provide us
with energy in exchange for free grub. Or the microscopic mites which live on
your eyelashes and oil them (not quite sure why that's a benefit to us).
*Still* completely and utterly irrelevant.
Post by Tim Streater
These are all symbiotic relationships between species, and nature abounds with
them.
See above but I appreciate you set your moral standards on what
animals have to do to survive.
Post by Tim Streater
Post by T i m
What part of any of that makes you think it's something that we should
be doing, especially as adults in 2021? The fact that we have taken
thousands of years to become tollerant to a food that was never meant
for us in the first place (and the children of mothers have to be
killed for us to have) doesn't ring any alarm bells with you?
As you continually fail to appreciate, the tolerance is something we are born
with.
And *still* completely and utterly irrelevant to our consumption of a
growth fluid and *especially* from a different species (where we have
to slaughter and enslave their young to steal it) when we are 'grown
ups' and where there are many alternatives that are better for us,
better for them and better for the planet.

Again, what is your justification for knowingly causing *unnecessary*
suffering and death of these innocent and sentient creatures (in
2021)?

Cheers, T i m
Spike
2021-05-09 09:24:42 UTC
Permalink
Post by T i m
If we are born with lactose tolerance then lactose tolerance in
infants is not and never has been 'the discussion re 'lactose
intolerance' in adults which is what we mean where we are talking of
such. So it's not and never has been part of the discussion about how
*adults* not only shouldn't (and typically don't) drink growth fluid
of our own species but certainly shouldn't drink the growth fluid of a
different species!
Where is this law about 'other species' written down?
--
Spike
Fredxx
2021-05-09 18:24:52 UTC
Permalink
Post by Spike
Post by T i m
If we are born with lactose tolerance then lactose tolerance in
infants is not and never has been 'the discussion re 'lactose
intolerance' in adults which is what we mean where we are talking of
such. So it's not and never has been part of the discussion about how
*adults* not only shouldn't (and typically don't) drink growth fluid
of our own species but certainly shouldn't drink the growth fluid of a
different species!
Where is this law about 'other species' written down?
It's not, but firmly imprinted on his mind through indoctrination from
his 'loved ones'.
Spike
2021-05-10 08:28:16 UTC
Permalink
Post by Fredxx
Post by Spike
Post by T i m
If we are born with lactose tolerance then lactose tolerance in
infants is not and never has been 'the discussion re 'lactose
intolerance' in adults which is what we mean where we are talking of
such. So it's not and never has been part of the discussion about how
*adults* not only shouldn't (and typically don't) drink growth fluid
of our own species but certainly shouldn't drink the growth fluid of a
different species!
Where is this law about 'other species' written down?
It's not, but firmly imprinted on his mind through indoctrination from
his 'loved ones'.
Doubtless someone made it up to suit their own purposes.
--
Spike
Tim Streater
2021-05-10 09:24:39 UTC
Permalink
Post by T i m
Post by Tim Streater
Post by T i m
Post by Tim Streater
Post by T i m
Post by Tim Streater
T r o l l still hasn't grasped the basics, namely that we are all (all
"Infant mammals nurse on their mothers to drink milk, which is rich in
lactose."
so that includes humans, most particularly babies.
Yes, and? Where does wiki say that human babies are best raised on
cows milk?
It doesn't, and they aren't, and no one has suggested they should be.
So why the (/YOUR) focus / distraction with babies then?
It's not a distraction, it's part of the discussion.
If we are born with lactose tolerance then lactose tolerance in
infants is not and never has been 'the discussion re 'lactose
intolerance' in adults which is what we mean where we are talking of
such. So it's not and never has been part of the discussion about how
*adults* not only shouldn't (and typically don't) drink growth fluid
of our own species but certainly shouldn't drink the growth fluid of a
different species!
Oh certainly it's part of the discussion. Because what you've attempted to do
throughtout this is to paint lactose tolerance as strange and unusual and
unnatural. Which is typical dishonest behaviour for you (not a politician are
Post by T i m
Post by Tim Streater
Post by T i m
Post by Tim Streater
Post by T i m
Yup, because of the circumstances / cultures / religions of 'some
people', those people have *developed a tolerance to something they
were never designed in nature to consume, certainly after they had
weaned themselves*.
No, shit-for-brains, they haven't developed a tolerance. The point is thay
*haven't* developed an *intolerance*.
Semantics (re the actual point of course).
Meaning that you can't tell the difference. Figures.
Nope, I fully understand the difference but it's only semantics as
it's not relevant *to the point*.
Yeah, you understand the difference all right and have attempted to suppress
it throughout. Now it's been shoved down your throat you're having to
wriggle.
--
When it becomes serious, you have to lie.

Jean-Claude Juncker, Reuters 31st May 2013.
Spike
2021-05-09 07:57:56 UTC
Permalink
Post by T i m
Yup, because of the circumstances / cultures / religions of 'some
people', those people have *developed a tolerance to something they
were never designed in nature to consume, certainly after they had
weaned themselves*.
No, shit-for-brains, they haven't developed a tolerance. The point is they
*haven't* developed an *intolerance*.
That's a scientifically-correct, logical, double negative that goes against
T i m ' s latest vegan-claptrap shibboleth.

T i m will never grasp the complexity of it.
Which is not the same thing at all. Getting a clue yet?
I'm not holding my breath.
--
Spike
Andrew
2021-05-09 10:46:29 UTC
Permalink
Post by Spike
Post by newshound
Post by T i m
However, what we are doing then is comparing the taste of something we
are used to, something we shouldn't have been consuming in the first
place ('cows milk' was meant for 'cows', not humans
But humans have *evolved* to be able to consume it (at least, a lot
can).
More than 60+% of the population can't
Claptrap. Unadulterated claptrap.
If humans hadn't been able to process lactose, humans would not have
succeeded as a species.
It was the ability to devise ways to turn cows milk into a form
that could be stored for consumption during the winter months
(plus other plant-based stuff) that allowed the humans who
migrated north to survive the winter. Ditto using animal hides
and fleeces to keep warm and dry. A useful side effect of this
was better development, leading ultimately to the industrial
revolution.

Meanwhile in Africa and pacific countries, all they needed to
do was catch fish, collect breadfruit and taro to survive. No
impetus to devise a way to survive a food shortage because they
never had one. QED They mostly couldn't be arsed, and when it
is so hot an humid, doing as little as possible is so much
easier.
T i m
2021-05-09 12:33:25 UTC
Permalink
On Sun, 9 May 2021 11:46:29 +0100, Andrew
Post by Andrew
Post by Spike
Post by newshound
Post by T i m
However, what we are doing then is comparing the taste of something we
are used to, something we shouldn't have been consuming in the first
place ('cows milk' was meant for 'cows', not humans
But humans have *evolved* to be able to consume it (at least, a lot
can).
More than 60+% of the population can't
Claptrap. Unadulterated claptrap.
If humans hadn't been able to process lactose, humans would not have
succeeded as a species.
It was the ability to devise ways to turn cows milk into a form
that could be stored for consumption during the winter months
(plus other plant-based stuff) that allowed the humans who
migrated north to survive the winter.
True, but no more 'natural' than saying they ate each other whilst
there to survive or stealing someone else's food to do the same.

(eg, For us to consume milk we need to deny it to the very creature it
was made for).
Post by Andrew
Ditto using animal hides
and fleeces to keep warm and dry.
See above. Maybe what might have made more sense is staying where were
could survive more easily?
Post by Andrew
A useful side effect of this
was better development, leading ultimately to the industrial
revolution.
And the near destruction of the planet.
Post by Andrew
Meanwhile in Africa and pacific countries, all they needed to
do was catch fish, collect breadfruit and taro to survive. No
impetus to devise a way to survive a food shortage because they
never had one. QED
And most native peoples had more respect for 'the land' and only took
what they needed (to survive).
Post by Andrew
They mostly couldn't be arsed, and when it
is so hot an humid, doing as little as possible is so much
easier.
And makes much more sense than trying to live is less naturally
hospitable places.

Many animals migrate exactly for this reason (including us who because
there is generally an easy supply of food wherever we go for the sun
(without having to hunt it ourselves), we can do similar. ;-)

Cheers, T i m
Andrew
2021-05-09 12:59:10 UTC
Permalink
Post by T i m
And most native peoples had more respect for 'the land' and only took
what they needed (to survive).
They took what they needed because there was no shortage of fish and
the climate meant root crops, bananas etc grow almost all year round.
And without electricity there is no chance of keeping for more than a
few hours.

And when the occasional Reverend Baker turns up, why not have a
wonderful BBQ with him on the menu ?.

It was the clever, industrious north americans and europeans who had the
brains (from meat and protein eating) and the requirement to invent
and develop refridgeration and the means to make ice in huge quantities.
This brought cheap meat and fish to the global poor, who benefitted
greatly.
T i m
2021-05-09 19:34:12 UTC
Permalink
On Sun, 9 May 2021 13:59:10 +0100, Andrew
Post by Andrew
Post by T i m
And most native peoples had more respect for 'the land' and only took
what they needed (to survive).
They took what they needed because there was no shortage of fish and
the climate meant root crops, bananas etc grow almost all year round.
Apart from in those places where there weren't.
Post by Andrew
And without electricity there is no chance of keeping for more than a
few hours.
Strange, we keep most of our fruit and veg out of the fridge?
Post by Andrew
And when the occasional Reverend Baker turns up, why not have a
wonderful BBQ with him on the menu ?.
Quite.
Post by Andrew
It was the clever, industrious north americans and europeans who had the
brains (from meat and protein eating)
A skill that they gained from eating veg in the first place of course.
Post by Andrew
and the requirement to invent
and develop refridgeration and the means to make ice in huge quantities.
Drying and salting were pretty common?
Post by Andrew
This brought cheap meat and fish to the global poor, who benefitted
greatly.
Well, till they were all gone?

Cheers, T i m
Spike
2021-05-10 08:32:31 UTC
Permalink
Post by T i m
Post by Andrew
It was the clever, industrious north americans and europeans who had the
brains (from meat and protein eating)
A skill that they gained from eating veg in the first place of course.
Technically, it was a skill that they gained from replacing veg in the
first place of course.
--
Spike
The Natural Philosopher
2021-05-10 08:43:37 UTC
Permalink
Post by Spike
Post by T i m
Post by Andrew
It was the clever, industrious north americans and europeans who had the
brains (from meat and protein eating)
A skill that they gained from eating veg in the first place of course.
Technically, it was a skill that they gained from replacing veg in the
first place of course.
Its absolute tosh to claim that humans were originally vegans - they
probably always ate harvested seafood. And meat eating predates Homo sap.
--
Microsoft : the best reason to go to Linux that ever existed.
Fredxx
2021-05-09 18:33:12 UTC
Permalink
Post by T i m
On Sun, 9 May 2021 11:46:29 +0100, Andrew
Post by Andrew
Post by Spike
Post by newshound
Post by T i m
However, what we are doing then is comparing the taste of something we
are used to, something we shouldn't have been consuming in the first
place ('cows milk' was meant for 'cows', not humans
But humans have *evolved* to be able to consume it (at least, a lot
can).
More than 60+% of the population can't
Claptrap. Unadulterated claptrap.
If humans hadn't been able to process lactose, humans would not have
succeeded as a species.
It was the ability to devise ways to turn cows milk into a form
that could be stored for consumption during the winter months
(plus other plant-based stuff) that allowed the humans who
migrated north to survive the winter.
True, but no more 'natural' than saying they ate each other whilst
there to survive or stealing someone else's food to do the same.
Only a fanatical vegan would associate drinking milk with cannibalism.
Post by T i m
(eg, For us to consume milk we need to deny it to the very creature it
was made for).
That is why we have farms, where cows outlive their expected life, where
in the wild they would be expected to have two calves before dying.
Post by T i m
Post by Andrew
Ditto using animal hides
and fleeces to keep warm and dry.
See above. Maybe what might have made more sense is staying where were
could survive more easily?
Is also makes sense to use renewable resources. Didn't you admit to
owning leather shoes?
Post by T i m
Post by Andrew
A useful side effect of this
was better development, leading ultimately to the industrial
revolution.
And the near destruction of the planet.
And yet you want us feed more humans. Most of the western world's
population has been shrinking. The expansion of the rest of the world is
largely dependent on food production.
Post by T i m
Post by Andrew
Meanwhile in Africa and pacific countries, all they needed to
do was catch fish, collect breadfruit and taro to survive. No
impetus to devise a way to survive a food shortage because they
never had one. QED
And most native peoples had more respect for 'the land' and only took
what they needed (to survive).
That's why advanced civilisations have governments to make laws to
protect the environment.
Post by T i m
Post by Andrew
They mostly couldn't be arsed, and when it
is so hot an humid, doing as little as possible is so much
easier.
And makes much more sense than trying to live is less naturally
hospitable places.
Many animals migrate exactly for this reason (including us who because
there is generally an easy supply of food wherever we go for the sun
(without having to hunt it ourselves), we can do similar. ;-)
No need if we have farms, no need to hunt it ourselves.
Joey
2021-05-09 19:45:00 UTC
Permalink
Post by Andrew
Post by Spike
Post by newshound
Post by T i m
However, what we are doing then is comparing the taste of something we
are used to, something we shouldn't have been consuming in the first
place ('cows milk' was meant for 'cows', not humans
But humans have *evolved* to be able to consume it (at least, a lot
can).
More than 60+% of the population can't
Claptrap. Unadulterated claptrap.
If humans hadn't been able to process lactose, humans would not have
succeeded as a species.
It was the ability to devise ways to turn cows milk into a form
that could be stored for consumption during the winter months
(plus other plant-based stuff) that allowed the humans who
migrated north to survive the winter. Ditto using animal hides
and fleeces to keep warm and dry. A useful side effect of this
was better development, leading ultimately to the industrial
revolution.
Meanwhile in Africa and pacific countries, all they needed to
do was catch fish, collect breadfruit and taro to survive. No
impetus to devise a way to survive a food shortage because they
never had one.
They always did with droughts and still do.
Post by Andrew
QED They mostly couldn't be arsed, and when it is so hot an humid, doing
as little as possible is so much easier.
Richard
2021-05-10 05:11:35 UTC
Permalink
Post by Joey
Post by Andrew
Post by Spike
Post by newshound
Post by T i m
However, what we are doing then is comparing the taste of
something we
are used to, something we shouldn't have been consuming in the first
place ('cows milk' was meant for 'cows', not humans
But humans have *evolved* to be able to consume it (at least, a lot
can).
More than 60+% of the population can't
Claptrap. Unadulterated claptrap.
If humans hadn't been able to process lactose, humans would not have
succeeded as a species.
It was the ability to devise ways to turn cows milk into a form
that could be stored for consumption during the winter months
(plus other plant-based stuff) that allowed the humans who
migrated north to survive the winter. Ditto using animal hides
and fleeces to keep warm and dry. A useful side effect of this
was better development, leading ultimately to the industrial
revolution.
Meanwhile in Africa and pacific countries, all they needed to
do was catch fish, collect breadfruit and taro to survive. No
impetus to devise a way to survive a food shortage because they
never had one.
They always did with droughts and still do.
Nature's way of population control, which has been overturned by us.
That, in turn, has led to the current unsustainable situation.
Rod Speed
2021-05-10 07:10:04 UTC
Permalink
Post by Richard
Post by Joey
Post by Andrew
Post by Spike
Post by newshound
Post by T i m
However, what we are doing then is comparing
the taste of something we are used to, something
we shouldn't have been consuming in the first place
('cows milk' was meant for 'cows', not humans
But humans have *evolved* to be able
to consume it (at least, a lot can).
More than 60+% of the population can't
Claptrap. Unadulterated claptrap.
If humans hadn't been able to process lactose,
humans would not have succeeded as a species.
It was the ability to devise ways to turn cows milk into a form
that could be stored for consumption during the winter months
(plus other plant-based stuff) that allowed the humans who
migrated north to survive the winter. Ditto using animal hides
and fleeces to keep warm and dry. A useful side effect of this
was better development, leading ultimately to the industrial
revolution.
Meanwhile in Africa and pacific countries, all they needed
to do was catch fish, collect breadfruit and taro to survive.
No impetus to devise a way to survive a food shortage
because they never had one.
They always did with droughts and still do.
Nature's way of population control,
Nope, nothing to do with nature, its just how it is.
Post by Richard
which has been overturned by us.
Yes., cant imagine why for the life of me.
Post by Richard
That, in turn, has led to the current unsustainable situation.
Its very far from clear that it actually is unsustainable now
that the world population is self limiting for other reasons.
Peeler
2021-05-10 09:25:15 UTC
Permalink
On Mon, 10 May 2021 17:10:04 +1000, cantankerous trolling geezer Rodent
Speed, the auto-contradicting senile sociopath, blabbered, again:

<FLUSH the trolling senile asshole's latest trollshit unread>

<FLUSH the trolling senile asshole's latest trollshit unread>
--
Sqwertz to Rodent Speed:
"This is just a hunch, but I'm betting you're kinda an argumentative
asshole.
MID: <ev1p6ml7ywd5$***@sqwertz.com>
Andrew
2021-05-10 11:28:06 UTC
Permalink
Post by Richard
Nature's way of population control, which has been overturned by us.
That, in turn, has led to the current unsustainable situation.
+10000000
williamwright
2021-05-07 12:12:09 UTC
Permalink
P.S.
Prop: Michael Palin, no doubt.
Well it's true that a vegan cheese shop would be 'completely
uncontaminated' by nice cheese.

Bill
tim...
2021-05-07 12:33:52 UTC
Permalink
Post by SH
Post by williamwright
Post by Richard
Post by The Natural Philosopher
milk works if they are not agin it
You seem to not grasp the "vegan" bit of this.
Vegans won't have milk because milking a cow kills it.
Bill
Soya milk
Oat milk
coconut milk
Peanut milk
cashew milk
Almond milk
Pistachio milk
that's well known

ITYF that the point that the OP is making is that these alternatives don't
adequately substitute when used as a glaze for baking
T i m
2021-05-07 10:22:36 UTC
Permalink
On Fri, 7 May 2021 06:30:17 +0100, Richard
Post by Richard
Post by The Natural Philosopher
Post by GB
I bake most of the bread we eat, and it's nearly all vegan. But, for
one thing!
I need/like to glaze some of the loaves, and I haven't found a decent
substitute for egg to do that. I've tried the liquid from tinned
chickpeas, but it's really naff compared to nice shiny egg.
So, can you suggest a decent vegan substitute, please?
We have vegan guests, and I'm fed up with apologising for the poorly
glazed bread. :)
milk works if they are not agin it
You seem to not grasp the "vegan" bit of this.
Unfortunately this is the sort of thing we (vegans) get all the time,
people arguing against 'it' when they really don't understand what
'it' is. It is very very simple:

"Veganism is a way of living which seeks to exclude, as far as is
possible and practicable, all forms of exploitation of, and cruelty
to, animals for food, clothing or any other purpose."

What they (and the vegetarians) don't get is the cruelty involved in
the industrial production of milk and eggs, they think something has
to die to have suffered.

They say stupid things like 'Vegans won't have milk because milking a
cow kills it.' but even as a wind-up it's both ignorant and childish
because 'of course' vegans know that the only way you can get milk is
to get a cow pregnant (typically artificially), let it give birth then
deny that calf the milk by killing it, either then (specifically if
it's a male as they are 'no use' for milk production), or after a few
months (after containing it in a small pen (rose veal)) or subjecting
it to the same slavery of producing 'industrial' levels of milk till
it's exhausted and then it's killed at about 7 of it's 20+ year life.

http://www.skoolofvegan.com/if-we-dont-milk-cows-theyll-burst.html

So why anyone would consume the growth fluid of a different species,
especially after they have weaned is simply because that's how they
were conditioned from a child and now can't actually see it for the
bizarre process it is.

https://ibb.co/VDR6Mny

They consider 'milk' a thing, a commodity and that we are supposed to
have, when it's just the opposite and always has been.

Cheers, T i m
williamwright
2021-05-07 12:20:47 UTC
Permalink
Post by T i m
They say stupid things like 'Vegans won't have milk because milking a
cow kills it.'
No it's true. It happened to a cow in our village. Something to do with
the earth connection coming off the milking machine I believe.

Bill
Spike
2021-05-07 15:06:47 UTC
Permalink
Post by T i m
subjecting
it to the same slavery of producing 'industrial' levels of milk till
it's exhausted and then it's killed at about 7 of it's 20+ year life.
That's interesting, because wild foxes have the ability to live for 20
years, but the average age at death for them is about 5 years.

So it looks from your figures that cows have 2 extra years of their
pampered life that wild foxes never see at all.

The natural world...great if you don't live in it...
--
Spike
Andrew
2021-05-09 10:38:16 UTC
Permalink
Post by The Natural Philosopher
Post by GB
I bake most of the bread we eat, and it's nearly all vegan. But, for
one thing!
I need/like to glaze some of the loaves, and I haven't found a decent
substitute for egg to do that. I've tried the liquid from tinned
chickpeas, but it's really naff compared to nice shiny egg.
So, can you suggest a decent vegan substitute, please?
We have vegan guests, and I'm fed up with apologising for the poorly
glazed bread. :)
milk works if they are not agin it
I guess you need a protein? Lentils boiled to destruction?
Mung Beans are used to make transparent noodles somewhere
in Asia. It was on TV the other night. ?Rick stein
Robin
2021-05-06 20:26:26 UTC
Permalink
Post by GB
I bake most of the bread we eat, and it's nearly all vegan. But, for one
thing!
I need/like to glaze some of the loaves, and I haven't found a decent
substitute for egg to do that. I've tried the liquid from tinned
chickpeas, but it's really naff compared to nice shiny egg.
So, can you suggest a decent vegan substitute, please?
We have vegan guests, and I'm fed up with apologising for the poorly
glazed bread. :)
I've eaten challah with a maple syrup glaze. I think diluted as the
flavour was mild but then so are some syrups.
--
Robin
reply-to address is (intended to be) valid
SH
2021-05-06 21:23:04 UTC
Permalink
Post by GB
I bake most of the bread we eat, and it's nearly all vegan. But, for one
thing!
I need/like to glaze some of the loaves, and I haven't found a decent
substitute for egg to do that. I've tried the liquid from tinned
chickpeas, but it's really naff compared to nice shiny egg.
So, can you suggest a decent vegan substitute, please?
We have vegan guests, and I'm fed up with apologising for the poorly
glazed bread. :)
can you not use sugared water as thats whats used onhot cross buns?

It does mean you'd have to get used ot teh sweetness though.
T i m
2021-05-07 09:48:03 UTC
Permalink
On Thu, 6 May 2021 22:23:04 +0100, SH <***@spam.com> wrote:

<snip>
Post by SH
can you not use sugared water as thats whats used onhot cross buns?
It does mean you'd have to get used ot teh sweetness though.
That was my question after a quick Google on bread glazes (I've never
glazed any of mine and so wasn't sure what the key purpose was). GB
mentioned the colour but as a utilitarian I wouldn't really care about
that and the wholegrain loaves I bake generally come out the colour I
am used to seeing bread being in any case?

Cheers, T i m
Andrew
2021-05-09 10:34:29 UTC
Permalink
Post by GB
I bake most of the bread we eat, and it's nearly all vegan. But, for one
thing!
I need/like to glaze some of the loaves, and I haven't found a decent
substitute for egg to do that. I've tried the liquid from tinned
chickpeas, but it's really naff compared to nice shiny egg.
So, can you suggest a decent vegan substitute, please?
We have vegan guests, and I'm fed up with apologising for the poorly
glazed bread. :)
what's wrong with eggs from local suppliers, the hobby farm types
who treat their hens like pets ?.
T i m
2021-05-09 13:11:57 UTC
Permalink
On Sun, 9 May 2021 11:34:29 +0100, Andrew
Post by Andrew
Post by GB
I bake most of the bread we eat, and it's nearly all vegan. But, for one
thing!
I need/like to glaze some of the loaves, and I haven't found a decent
substitute for egg to do that. I've tried the liquid from tinned
chickpeas, but it's really naff compared to nice shiny egg.
So, can you suggest a decent vegan substitute, please?
We have vegan guests, and I'm fed up with apologising for the poorly
glazed bread. :)
what's wrong with eggs from local suppliers, the hobby farm types
who treat their hens like pets ?.
Because (and possibly though ignorance) they aren't treating them like
pets they are (typically) abusing and exploiting them like slaves. ;-(

Most people don't keep a dog and have it work for them generating
electricity on a treadmill or getting it to dig over the garden by
burying bones here and there?

A chicken is no different to no other bird in that they have a desire
to lay eggs, build a clutch (of varying number depending on the
species), sit on those eggs (incubation), have them hatch and then
tend / feed / protect their chicks until they are mature enough to
'fly the nest'. They might also only have restricted breeding seasons.

We have exploited the chicken (and some other birds) by taking their
eggs away from them and so forcing them to keep laying them in an
effort to form a clutch and in so doing cause them mental stress and
putting extra strain on their reproductive systems. By taking the eggs
away you also remove the ability for her to use the egg itself as a
way of recouping some of the lost calcium (seen at it's worst in
battery farms by all the birds with broken limbs).

Taking on an ex battery hen is obviously a good thing in the sense of
their living conditions (they are also under mental strain when forced
into a shed containing 10,000 other chickens because they can't cope
with that large a social group (they would normally be in flocks of
less than 100 as they can only recognise 100 other birds to know they
are friends / family and not aggressors from another flock) but may
not be much better off in other ways.

Also, they are typically forced to roost on the ground (and so
vulnerable to foxes as foxes do get into their cages etc) when they
would normally roost in the trees to be away from such predators.
Having a fox wandering round at eye level and trying to get into your
house is way more stressful than looking at that fox from 20 feet
above it.

Also, if you take on (and especially if you 'buy' from the farmer) an
ex battery chicken you aren't doing the chickens (in general) any
favour if that outlet is more profitable (or even less loss) for the
farmer.

It's the same as people who buy animals from food markets in China and
set them free, the person trapping them in the wild is still getting
reward for their exploitation.

On top of that, given that male chickens play no part useful in the
egg industry, they are all generally killed at about 1 day old by
being fed live into a macerator.

https://ibb.co/JmYzpVz

https://ibb.co/YyrMXZc

Rarely is it the obvious, it's often also all the stuff that goes on
behind the scenes that people who don't want to support all this
cruelty and exploitation want to make people aware of.

Given humans are supposed to be so intelligent and therefore
remorseful, you would think we would have devise other ways of
surviving without having to cause suffering, exploitation and death of
millions of sentient, intelligent, social and trusting [1] animals by
now ... and for the vast majority we have of course.

https://ibb.co/rdQvftm ;-)

Cheers, T i m

[1] And that makes even more disgusting. In general we only
'domesticated' animals that were generally gentle, curious,
intelligent (I think pigs are the 4th most intelligent animal, over
dogs and cats) and trusting. We keep, feed and provide shelter ...
then cut their throats ...
Andrew
2021-05-10 11:31:44 UTC
Permalink
Post by T i m
Because (and possibly though ignorance) they aren't treating them like
pets they are (typically) abusing and exploiting them like slaves. ;-(
NO THEY AREN'T !!. They are treated like members of the family.
Get Real.
Post by T i m
On top of that, given that male chickens play no part useful in the
egg industry, they are all generally killed at about 1 day old by
being fed live into a macerator.
<snip typically irrelevent and possibly fake videos - AGAIN>

name me one hobby farmer who does this ?
T i m
2021-05-10 13:39:33 UTC
Permalink
On Mon, 10 May 2021 12:31:44 +0100, Andrew
Post by Andrew
Post by T i m
Because (and possibly though ignorance) they aren't treating them like
pets they are (typically) abusing and exploiting them like slaves. ;-(
NO THEY AREN'T !!.
Of course they are. Like I said, *ignorance*.
Post by Andrew
They are treated like members of the family.
A member of the family they exploit every day you mean? Your daughter
makes *herself* a toy and you take it away, forcing her to make
another, and another and another ... unless you are saying 'hobby'
(something you have introduced into the conversation as a strawman
from the main point) farmers don't use the eggs?
Post by Andrew
Get Real.
The irony is that I am the real one here. I'm the one who is living a
happy and healthy life without causing animals any unnecessary pain or
suffering (unless you are suggesting humans can't survive without
eating bird eggs)?
Post by Andrew
Post by T i m
On top of that, given that male chickens play no part useful in the
egg industry, they are all generally killed at about 1 day old by
being fed live into a macerator.
<snip typically irrelevent and possibly fake videos - AGAIN>
Ah, so, still so petrified by the truth you can't even click on a link
to a *picture* you pathetic pussy!
Post by Andrew
name me one hobby farmer who does this ?
Does what (given you are too petrified to even look at a picture)?

If you are talking about macerating the male chicks then I doubt many
could afford the equipment to and given they won't be giving any
chance the chickens to sit on the eggs, (even if there is a cock
there) no bird would ever hatch from the egg in the first place.

So where do these chickens these 'hobby farmers' come from where they
only have female chickens?

If they allow nature to work *naturally*, what do they do with all the
males that are born?

Cheers, T i m
Fredxx
2021-05-10 12:18:06 UTC
Permalink
Post by T i m
On Sun, 9 May 2021 11:34:29 +0100, Andrew
Post by Andrew
Post by GB
I bake most of the bread we eat, and it's nearly all vegan. But, for one
thing!
I need/like to glaze some of the loaves, and I haven't found a decent
substitute for egg to do that. I've tried the liquid from tinned
chickpeas, but it's really naff compared to nice shiny egg.
So, can you suggest a decent vegan substitute, please?
We have vegan guests, and I'm fed up with apologising for the poorly
glazed bread. :)
what's wrong with eggs from local suppliers, the hobby farm types
who treat their hens like pets ?.
Because (and possibly though ignorance) they aren't treating them like
pets they are (typically) abusing and exploiting them like slaves. ;-(
Is that an admission you abuse and exploit your dogs like slaves?
Post by T i m
Most people don't keep a dog
It is true most ethical vegans don't.
Post by T i m
and have it work for them generating
electricity on a treadmill or getting it to dig over the garden by
burying bones here and there?
Quite, pets are abused and exploited for your personal pleasure.
Post by T i m
A chicken is no different to no other bird in that they have a desire
to lay eggs, build a clutch (of varying number depending on the
species), sit on those eggs (incubation), have them hatch and then
tend / feed / protect their chicks until they are mature enough to
'fly the nest'. They might also only have restricted breeding seasons.
We have exploited the chicken (and some other birds) by taking their
eggs away from them and so forcing them to keep laying them in an
effort to form a clutch and in so doing cause them mental stress and
putting extra strain on their reproductive systems. By taking the eggs
away you also remove the ability for her to use the egg itself as a
way of recouping some of the lost calcium (seen at it's worst in
battery farms by all the birds with broken limbs).
Then campaign to improve welfare standards, from your admission we know
you don't want to.
Post by T i m
Taking on an ex battery hen is obviously a good thing in the sense of
their living conditions (they are also under mental strain when forced
into a shed containing 10,000 other chickens because they can't cope
with that large a social group (they would normally be in flocks of
less than 100 as they can only recognise 100 other birds to know they
are friends / family and not aggressors from another flock) but may
not be much better off in other ways.
How did you measure this stress? It's a fact that pigs are less stressed
when reared in sheds in benign conditions.
Post by T i m
Also, they are typically forced to roost on the ground (and so
vulnerable to foxes as foxes do get into their cages etc) when they
would normally roost in the trees to be away from such predators.
Having a fox wandering round at eye level and trying to get into your
house is way more stressful than looking at that fox from 20 feet
above it.
Not many chicken owners leave their chickens vulnerable to foxes,
however much you'd like this to be so.
Post by T i m
Also, if you take on (and especially if you 'buy' from the farmer) an
ex battery chicken you aren't doing the chickens (in general) any
favour if that outlet is more profitable (or even less loss) for the
farmer.
Quite, a bit like your animal rescue centre, they "aren't doing the digs
(in general) any favour if that outlet is more profitable (or even less
loss) for the dog breeders."
Post by T i m
It's the same as people who buy animals from food markets in China and
set them free, the person trapping them in the wild is still getting
reward for their exploitation.
On top of that, given that male chickens play no part useful in the
egg industry, they are all generally killed at about 1 day old by
being fed live into a macerator.
It's a pretty quick and painless way to go.
Post by T i m
https://ibb.co/JmYzpVz
Are you confusing animal life with human life? They are different. Do
you cry every time you step on an ant?
Post by T i m
https://ibb.co/YyrMXZc
He's probably not aware of the environment he's in.
Post by T i m
Rarely is it the obvious, it's often also all the stuff that goes on
behind the scenes that people who don't want to support all this
cruelty and exploitation want to make people aware of.
If you disapprove of these scenes then campaign for their improvement.
It's a shame you don't care about animal welfare while the animal is alive.
Post by T i m
Given humans are supposed to be so intelligent and therefore
remorseful, you would think we would have devise other ways of
surviving without having to cause suffering, exploitation and death of
millions of sentient, intelligent, social and trusting [1] animals by
now ... and for the vast majority we have of course.
Intelligence and remorsefulness are not synonyms. We have evolved to eat
meat and drink milk as part of a natural balanced diet.
Post by T i m
https://ibb.co/rdQvftm ;-)
No we really don't. Man has advanced and because we can cook and consume
high value foods such as meat and meat products. The alternative is
being cattle spending 1/2 the day eating grass and consuming all that
energy to digest it's food. We have come a long way.
Post by T i m
Cheers, T i m
[1] And that makes even more disgusting.
The animals you mention are not capable of simple human constructs such
as 'consent'. Were your dogs asked if they would agree to their genitals
being mutilated?
Post by T i m
In general we only
'domesticated' animals that were generally gentle, curious,
intelligent (I think pigs are the 4th most intelligent animal, over
dogs and cats) and trusting. We keep, feed and provide shelter ...
then cut their throats ...
Even a crow is said to be more intelligent than a pig. Can a pig
understand consent?
Spike
2021-05-10 15:21:32 UTC
Permalink
Post by Fredxx
Post by T i m
Post by Andrew
what's wrong with eggs from local suppliers, the hobby farm types
who treat their hens like pets ?.
Because (and possibly though ignorance) they aren't treating them like
pets they are (typically) abusing and exploiting them like slaves. ;-(
Is that an admission you abuse and exploit your dogs like slaves?
Careful...or we'll be back to T i m ' s support for child abuse, after
his massive charm offensive to deflect people's attention away from his
admission.
--
Spike
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