Dry Lined Walls and Hanging Heavy Objects

[MB]

I'm constantly having problems hanging heavy items in our new build
house, which is constructed with dry lined walls.

I now need to hang an LCD tv weighing c. 10kg on a swivel arm.
Naturally with the arm fully extended, this is going to produce a high
level of force on the fixings which I am certain the dry lining will
not be able to take. I have had poor experience with plasterboard
fixings, that claim to be heavy duty, pulling out of the plaster
whenever there is any leveraged force - e.g. heavy book shelves, and
curtain poles).

If I attempt to get wall plugs into the underlying brick work, this
will leave quite a hole in the plaster, and leave the screw unsupported
for about 35mm - being the distance from the brick work to the outside
face of the plaster board.

The solutions I have considered are:

1. Cut out the dry lining and mount a block of wood to the underlying
brick. Plaster over the wood and make good, and then mount the bracket
to this. This is somewhat labour intensive and rather messy.

2. Using masonry screws, which alledgedly will screw, with the aid of a
pilot hole, into brick work. However, I am not certain as to how secure
these are, and this still leaves quite a length of screw unsupported.

3. Use window frame fixings with long wall plugs which would then
support the fixing in both the plaster and brickwork - however, again,
I don't know whether these would take the force.

Any suggestions from more experienced DIYers would be much appreciated.

Thanks

Michael.

[bill]

Post by MB
I'm constantly having problems hanging heavy items in our new build
house, which is constructed with dry lined walls.
I now need to hang an LCD tv weighing c. 10kg on a swivel arm.
Naturally with the arm fully extended, this is going to produce a high
level of force on the fixings which I am certain the dry lining will
not be able to take. I have had poor experience with plasterboard
fixings, that claim to be heavy duty, pulling out of the plaster
whenever there is any leveraged force - e.g. heavy book shelves, and
curtain poles).
If I attempt to get wall plugs into the underlying brick work, this
will leave quite a hole in the plaster, and leave the screw unsupported
for about 35mm - being the distance from the brick work to the outside
face of the plaster board.
1. Cut out the dry lining and mount a block of wood to the underlying
brick. Plaster over the wood and make good, and then mount the bracket
to this. This is somewhat labour intensive and rather messy.
2. Using masonry screws, which alledgedly will screw, with the aid of a
pilot hole, into brick work. However, I am not certain as to how secure
these are, and this still leaves quite a length of screw unsupported.
3. Use window frame fixings with long wall plugs which would then
support the fixing in both the plaster and brickwork - however, again,
I don't know whether these would take the force.
Any suggestions from more experienced DIYers would be much appreciated.
Thanks
Michael.

It's not worth the trouble, I would buy a floor stand instead. This thing
about hanging LCD TVs on the wall is out of fashion now. They have poor
viewing angles, so the wrong height and you're stuffed. I would go for a
decent quality CRT and sit it in the corner, LCD is way behind in terms of
quality on any moving pictures. Shadows and ghosting etc. Try watching
scrolling text!
This is one problem of buying a "cheap" construction house, you probably
have chipboard floors too. Try getting those up to put cables under or fix
pipes. Some houses I went to had the floor nailed down, then the second
floor built up, so whole boards went under doorframes!
One house had a flood and the floor had to be destroyed to get it up.
Screwing anything to the wall like shelves was also a nightmare for people.
Massive long screws into crumbling block. It did the same as what you
found, ripped bits of the wall off.
I would do two things, never buy a cheap construction with poor build
quality and get either a TV stand or a proper TV!
Maybe you would need to fix a plate to the wall or use massive long fixings,
either way - you will get home one day to find a very expensive LCD TV on
the floor face down.

[The Medway Handyman]

Post by MB
1. Cut out the dry lining and mount a block of wood to the underlying
brick. Plaster over the wood and make good, and then mount the
bracket to this. This is somewhat labour intensive and rather messy.

Messy possibly, but secure! How much is that TV worth?

[MB]

The TV cost enough to upset me if it falls off the wall! It's only a
smallish one - 23", and weight is quite modest at 10kg, but this still
exerts quite an angular force if the mounting arm is extended out all
18".

The TV is going in our kitchen, and I want to free up the breakfast
table. The viewing angle on it is excellent, so I am happy with the
idea of mounting on the wall.

The construction of the house I think is now pretty standard. All
builders will look for ways of completing houses in the quickest and
cheapest ways possible - dry lining is one of those. However, I am
pleased to say that we have both concrete ground and first floors.

[m***@care2.com]

Post by MB
The TV cost enough to upset me if it falls off the wall! It's only a
smallish one - 23", and weight is quite modest at 10kg, but this still
exerts quite an angular force if the mounting arm is extended out all
18".
The TV is going in our kitchen, and I want to free up the breakfast
table. The viewing angle on it is excellent, so I am happy with the
idea of mounting on the wall.
The construction of the house I think is now pretty standard. All
builders will look for ways of completing houses in the quickest and
cheapest ways possible - dry lining is one of those. However, I am
pleased to say that we have both concrete ground and first floors.

I think most of the ideas mentioned wont work in this case. The wall is
presumably either 4" lightweight block, wood frame, metal frame, 2"
concrete or straw.

the tv is 10kg, the shelf another 2kg. The screw fixings are maybe 3"
apart, and tv 18" from the wall, giving a lever ratio of 3/18= 6.
Bracket c of g has a lever ratio of 3. So at the lower fixing the
bracket pushed the wall in wards with 60+6 = 66kg force over a few
inches. PB will simply crush under such force.

You have to not only fix to something a lot more solid than PB, you
also have to have something solid in the space between the solid wall
and the PB. This rules out most of the suggestions.

If you have a frame wall, the simplest is to locate the uprights and
screw into those. PB screws are sharp enough to go into steel frames.

If youve got aerated block I'd try to screw thru the whole 4" of block.
If 2" concrete, ditto.

If you have a straw wall, forget it, fit an external upright and attach
to that, use a stand, or possibly dangle from ceiling. The tv, not you.


NT

[Andrew Gabriel]

Post by MB
If I attempt to get wall plugs into the underlying brick work, this
will leave quite a hole in the plaster, and leave the screw unsupported
for about 35mm - being the distance from the brick work to the outside
face of the plaster board.

What about a rawlbolt with protruding threaded stud.
You can screw a nut and washer on so they are flush
level with the plasterboard surface, and then bolt
the wall bracket mounting plate up against those, so
there's no weight on the plasterboard at all.

[MB]

Not sure that I have come across a rawlbolt before, and I can't find
one in my bible (screwfix catalogue) - sorry for being naive - but can
you explain how these work?

Having said that, I am not sure if a bolt would work with the bracket
that I have got. I don't think there is enough clearance for a nut
underneath the cover plates that fix over the mounting bracket. Of
course, I could if push comes to shove, leave it exposed - but this
would not be ideal.

Thanks for your input.

[Andrew Gabriel]

Post by MB
Not sure that I have come across a rawlbolt before, and I can't find
one in my bible (screwfix catalogue) - sorry for being naive - but can
you explain how these work?

Screwfix part D11554-39 or D17637-39 (calls them Shield Anchors).
The protruding stud on these is much longer than shown in the
picture (same picture seems to be used for all sizes of them),
and you'll need another 2 or 3 nuts and washers per anchor to
do what I suggested.

You'll need a hole in the plasterboard big enough to get the
washer and a spanner through (a box spanner would be best for
this) to tighten the nut against the brick wall.

[Lobster]

Post by MB
I'm constantly having problems hanging heavy items in our new build
house, which is constructed with dry lined walls.

It's a bit of an old chestnut, this - if you google the archives of this
newsgroup you should find a fair amount of info (and possible solutions)

eg:
<http://groups.google.co.uk/group/uk.d-i-y/browse_frm/thread/348e30b8f20bc39f/ac544f2c5e6c5dd8?hl=en#ac544f2c5e6c5dd8>

David

[MB]

Thanks for your explanation Andrew.

David - sorry I missed that thread when I searched previously. Do you
think your idea of the wall plug and glue packing would work with the
TV mounting?

[Lobster]

Post by MB
Thanks for your explanation Andrew.
David - sorry I missed that thread when I searched previously. Do you
think your idea of the wall plug and glue packing would work with the
TV mounting?

Erm - well, I reckon it would probably be as strong as it if you used
rawlplugs with a non-dry-lined plastered wall. However the question is
whether rawlplugs would be strong enough for your application... hard to
say without eyeballing the situation and making a judgement accordingly;
but personally I think I'd probably be going with Andrew's shield bolts
here!

David

[Dave Fawthrop]

On 5 Feb 2006 09:12:08 -0800, "MB" <***@ukonline.co.uk> wrote:

|Thanks for your explanation Andrew.
|
|David - sorry I missed that thread when I searched previously. Do you
|think your idea of the wall plug and glue packing would work with the
|TV mounting?

The packing *must* be waterproof or have a waterproof membrane between it
and the wall. Otherwise it will get damp from the wall, and deteriorate.

[MB]

This post might be inappropriate. Click to display it.

[John]

Post by MB
The wall in this situation is an internal one. So I assume this isn't
an issue.

How thick is the wall? I lived in a new build house a few years ago and all
the internal walls were only about 3" thick (apart from the loadbearing
ones). These walls were basically made of a straw inner with PB outers and
then skimmed. What a b*****d to hang anything heavier than a calendar on,
and only then if it wasn't a 'his and hers'!! One day I could smell an
awful mouldy smell in my sons bedroom and traced it to a 'bulging' lower
part of the party wall between his bed and our En-Suite shower. It turned
ot that the grout in the shower had failed and water had been leaking into
the wall, with it being straw it had soaked in and not given the tell tale
drip, drip... downstairs. The builders of the house were building another
estate close by so I asked why they used the "three little pigs style of
house bulid" to be told by the site foreman, "It's cheap and cuts down on
the noise transfer from room to room".

If your walls are like this I wouldn't hang a 10Kg bag of spuds of them,
never mind a TV.

HTH

John

[Mike Dodd]

Post by MB
I'm constantly having problems hanging heavy items in our new build
house, which is constructed with dry lined walls.
I now need to hang an LCD tv weighing c. 10kg on a swivel arm.
Naturally with the arm fully extended, this is going to produce a high
level of force on the fixings which I am certain the dry lining will
not be able to take. I have had poor experience with plasterboard
fixings, that claim to be heavy duty, pulling out of the plaster
whenever there is any leveraged force - e.g. heavy book shelves, and
curtain poles).
If I attempt to get wall plugs into the underlying brick work, this
will leave quite a hole in the plaster, and leave the screw unsupported
for about 35mm - being the distance from the brick work to the outside
face of the plaster board.
1. Cut out the dry lining and mount a block of wood to the underlying
brick. Plaster over the wood and make good, and then mount the bracket
to this. This is somewhat labour intensive and rather messy.
2. Using masonry screws, which alledgedly will screw, with the aid of a
pilot hole, into brick work. However, I am not certain as to how secure
these are, and this still leaves quite a length of screw unsupported.
3. Use window frame fixings with long wall plugs which would then
support the fixing in both the plaster and brickwork - however, again,
I don't know whether these would take the force.
Any suggestions from more experienced DIYers would be much appreciated.
Thanks
Michael.

Frame fixings; using them to secure battens to the wall to support 3.6m
of desks holding home office equipment in same construction house - no
problems whatsover (and I've walked on the desks).

[h***@tricyesterday.com]

On Sun, 05 Feb 2006 17:20:34 +0000, Mike Dodd

Post by Mike Dodd
snip
Frame fixings; using them to secure battens to the wall to support 3.6m
of desks holding home office equipment in same construction house - no
problems whatsover (and I've walked on the desks).

the desks presumably sit on the floor


you could find two studs and fix a decent sized piece of 19mm mdf to
them
studs are either 600 or 400mm centres(approx)
decorate the mdf and fix your bracket


breeze

[fred]

Post by MB
I'm constantly having problems hanging heavy items in our new build
house, which is constructed with dry lined walls.
I now need to hang an LCD tv weighing c. 10kg on a swivel arm.
Naturally with the arm fully extended, this is going to produce a high
level of force on the fixings which I am certain the dry lining will
not be able to take. I have had poor experience with plasterboard
fixings, that claim to be heavy duty, pulling out of the plaster
whenever there is any leveraged force - e.g. heavy book shelves, and
curtain poles).
If I attempt to get wall plugs into the underlying brick work, this
will leave quite a hole in the plaster, and leave the screw unsupported
for about 35mm - being the distance from the brick work to the outside
face of the plaster board.
1. Cut out the dry lining and mount a block of wood to the underlying
brick. Plaster over the wood and make good, and then mount the bracket
to this. This is somewhat labour intensive and rather messy.
2. Using masonry screws, which alledgedly will screw, with the aid of a
pilot hole, into brick work. However, I am not certain as to how secure
these are, and this still leaves quite a length of screw unsupported.
3. Use window frame fixings with long wall plugs which would then
support the fixing in both the plaster and brickwork - however, again,
I don't know whether these would take the force.

I'd use chemical anchors or hammer/frame fixings into the brickwork but
I think it is important to have a hard spacer between the solid wall and
the bracket to take the compression force when the fixings are tightened
ie not the plasterboard. Make sure you have at least 4" of fixing in the
wall.

Have some ascii art (fixed font):

wall plaster
board
backnut
| | | /
| | |/ front nut
chemical | | /|| /
anchor | |XX|||XX
//////////////////XX|//XX///
/////////////////|XX|//XX///
| |XX|||XX
| | |||
| | |||
| | |||
OR |gap| |||
| | ||| bracket
| | |||
hammer/ | | |||
frame | | |||
fixing | | |||
-------------|#######||||
//////////////--------/||
//////////////--------\||
-------------|#######||||
| | \|||
| | \||
| | |\|
| | | \
| | | \
| | | spacer

HTH