Discussion:
EV recommendation
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Timatmarford
2025-02-15 10:18:17 UTC
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Following the interest in the EV thread I thought it timely to ask for
comment on replacing my wife's 2009 60k miles diesel Fiesta. About
2000m/year of local trips so the MOT smoke test a burden. (overcome so
far by a preceding long motorway trip!)

For several years, we have talked about changing to a new, battery, 4
seater vehicle. Range 150 miles would do.

Neither of us (80 just and 81) have ever driven one! From the passenger
seat, the complexity of the electronic display gadgetry is
incomprehensible! One of us is still struggling to operate her new TV!
nib
2025-02-15 10:42:51 UTC
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Post by Timatmarford
Following the interest in the EV thread I thought it timely to ask for
comment on replacing my wife's 2009 60k miles diesel Fiesta.  About
2000m/year of local trips so the MOT smoke test a burden. (overcome so
far by a preceding long motorway trip!)
For several years, we have talked about changing to a new, battery, 4
seater vehicle. Range 150 miles would do.
Neither of us (80 just and 81) have ever driven one! From the passenger
seat, the complexity of the electronic display gadgetry is
incomprehensible! One of us is still struggling to operate her new TV!
I think the display gadgetry is much the same in all cars nowadays!

If you don't need to do long journeys and you can charge at home, then
in my experience battery electric works very well. Very nice to drive,
smooth, quiet, fast. A warm, de-iced car on winter mornings. No bother
about short journeys. The heater starts up immediately, no engine to
warm up. Cheap fuel (at least for now).

I have a Renault Zoe, which is by design a local runabout (slow charging
only) which did me very well for commuting to work, when I was still
doing that, 240 mile nominal range, effectively 220 in summer, 180 in
winter.

But we did have two cars, the other one a PHEV, so long journeys were
always possible. Now I have the same two cars but it's just me, so it
still works but not cheaply!

What is not always obvious with EVs is the charging rate, that affects
how useful the car is for occasional long journeys. My Zoe charges at
max 22kW, which adds only about 70 miles in an hour, so it's impractical
to charge in-journey. Most "proper" EVs can take about 150kW, so more
like 450 miles added per hour, which makes it possible to get a useful
addition in a short stop. Smaller EVs sometimes have 50kW max rate which
means 45 mins to add 100 miles, which is doable but not something you'd
do regularly. Also older, smaller EVs might have AC charging only which
is often hard to find out on the road; not a problem if buying a modern
design. I am considering getting rid of both the Zoe and the PHEV and
getting a fast charging EV!

nib
The Natural Philosopher
2025-02-15 11:05:37 UTC
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Most "proper" EVs can take about 150kW, so more like 450 miles added per
hour, which makes it possible to get a useful addition in a short stop
150kW is completely beyond any *domestic* installation.

And probably hard to find elsewhere.
--
All political activity makes complete sense once the proposition that
all government is basically a self-legalising protection racket, is
fully understood.
John R Walliker
2025-02-15 11:58:58 UTC
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Post by The Natural Philosopher
Most "proper" EVs can take about 150kW, so more like 450 miles added
per hour, which makes it possible to get a useful addition in a short
stop
150kW is completely beyond any *domestic* installation.
And probably hard to find elsewhere.
Not difficult around here. The local Waitrose has 120kW chargers and

Sainsbury's has 150kW chargers.

John
nib
2025-02-15 12:11:49 UTC
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Post by The Natural Philosopher
Most "proper" EVs can take about 150kW, so more like 450 miles added
per hour, which makes it possible to get a useful addition in a short
stop
150kW is completely beyond any *domestic* installation.
And probably hard to find elsewhere.
Not difficult around here.  The local Waitrose has 120kW chargers and
Sainsbury's has 150kW chargers.
John
Post by The Natural Philosopher
150kW is completely beyond any *domestic* installation.
Of course it is. At home you charge at 7 kW overnight. All EVs do that.
On a journey you want to charge in a few minutes while you have a pee
and a coffee; that's when you use the 150 kW public superfast chargers.
Not all EVs can do that. Surely that's obvious?

nib
Tim+
2025-02-15 13:40:41 UTC
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Post by nib
Post by The Natural Philosopher
Most "proper" EVs can take about 150kW, so more like 450 miles added
per hour, which makes it possible to get a useful addition in a short
stop
150kW is completely beyond any *domestic* installation.
And probably hard to find elsewhere.
Not difficult around here.  The local Waitrose has 120kW chargers and
Sainsbury's has 150kW chargers.
John
Post by The Natural Philosopher
150kW is completely beyond any *domestic* installation.
Of course it is. At home you charge at 7 kW overnight. All EVs do that.
On a journey you want to charge in a few minutes while you have a pee
and a coffee; that's when you use the 150 kW public superfast chargers.
Not all EVs can do that. Surely that's obvious?
Not to dyed in the wool EV haters.

Tim
--
Please don't feed the trolls
The Natural Philosopher
2025-02-15 15:29:11 UTC
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Post by Tim+
Post by nib
Post by The Natural Philosopher
Most "proper" EVs can take about 150kW, so more like 450 miles added
per hour, which makes it possible to get a useful addition in a short
stop
150kW is completely beyond any *domestic* installation.
And probably hard to find elsewhere.
Not difficult around here.  The local Waitrose has 120kW chargers and
Sainsbury's has 150kW chargers.
John
Post by The Natural Philosopher
150kW is completely beyond any *domestic* installation.
Of course it is. At home you charge at 7 kW overnight. All EVs do that.
On a journey you want to charge in a few minutes while you have a pee
and a coffee; that's when you use the 150 kW public superfast chargers.
Not all EVs can do that. Surely that's obvious?
Not to dyed in the wool EV haters.
I am not a BEV hater. I ,merely point out the safety, cost environmental
and utility drawbacks of them

Like most ecobollox™ they are no solution to anything except
manufacturers need to sell expensive 'shiny new thing that makes
everything better' to the sort of gullible idiots who buy Apple products
Post by Tim+
Tim
--
The urge to save humanity is almost always a false front for the urge to
rule.
– H. L. Mencken, American journalist, 1880-1956
charles
2025-02-15 17:00:01 UTC
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Post by The Natural Philosopher
Post by Tim+
Post by nib
Post by John R Walliker
Post by The Natural Philosopher
Most "proper" EVs can take about 150kW, so more like 450 miles
added per hour, which makes it possible to get a useful addition in
a short stop
150kW is completely beyond any *domestic* installation.
And probably hard to find elsewhere.
Not difficult around here. The local Waitrose has 120kW chargers and
Sainsbury's has 150kW chargers.
John
Post by The Natural Philosopher
150kW is completely beyond any *domestic* installation.
Of course it is. At home you charge at 7 kW overnight. All EVs do
that. On a journey you want to charge in a few minutes while you have
a pee and a coffee; that's when you use the 150 kW public superfast
chargers. Not all EVs can do that. Surely that's obvious?
Not to dyed in the wool EV haters.
I am not a BEV hater. I ,merely point out the safety, cost environmental
and utility drawbacks of them
Like most ecobollox they are no solution to anything except
manufacturers need to sell expensive 'shiny new thing that makes
everything better' to the sort of gullible idiots who buy Apple products
Mine stops my drive being polluted with exhaust fumes. You're just biassed
because you can't afford one.
--
from KT24 in Surrey, England - sent from my RISC OS 4té˛
"I'd rather die of exhaustion than die of boredom" Thomas Carlyle
The Natural Philosopher
2025-02-15 18:22:41 UTC
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Post by charles
Post by The Natural Philosopher
Post by Tim+
Post by nib
Post by John R Walliker
Post by The Natural Philosopher
Most "proper" EVs can take about 150kW, so more like 450 miles
added per hour, which makes it possible to get a useful addition in
a short stop
150kW is completely beyond any *domestic* installation.
And probably hard to find elsewhere.
Not difficult around here. The local Waitrose has 120kW chargers and
Sainsbury's has 150kW chargers.
John
Post by The Natural Philosopher
150kW is completely beyond any *domestic* installation.
Of course it is. At home you charge at 7 kW overnight. All EVs do
that. On a journey you want to charge in a few minutes while you have
a pee and a coffee; that's when you use the 150 kW public superfast
chargers. Not all EVs can do that. Surely that's obvious?
Not to dyed in the wool EV haters.
I am not a BEV hater. I ,merely point out the safety, cost environmental
and utility drawbacks of them
Like most ecobollox they are no solution to anything except
manufacturers need to sell expensive 'shiny new thing that makes
everything better' to the sort of gullible idiots who buy Apple products
Mine stops my drive being polluted with exhaust fumes. You're just biassed
because you can't afford one.
My car doesn't pollute my drive with exhaust fumes.
You're just biassed because you have been conned.
--
“Some people like to travel by train because it combines the slowness of
a car with the cramped public exposure of 
an airplane.”

Dennis Miller
charles
2025-02-15 19:15:02 UTC
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Post by The Natural Philosopher
Post by charles
Post by The Natural Philosopher
Post by Tim+
Post by nib
Post by John R Walliker
Post by The Natural Philosopher
Most "proper" EVs can take about 150kW, so more like 450 miles
added per hour, which makes it possible to get a useful addition
in a short stop
150kW is completely beyond any *domestic* installation.
And probably hard to find elsewhere.
Not difficult around here. The local Waitrose has 120kW chargers and
Sainsbury's has 150kW chargers.
John
Post by The Natural Philosopher
150kW is completely beyond any *domestic* installation.
Of course it is. At home you charge at 7 kW overnight. All EVs do
that. On a journey you want to charge in a few minutes while you
have a pee and a coffee; that's when you use the 150 kW public
superfast chargers. Not all EVs can do that. Surely that's obvious?
Not to dyed in the wool EV haters.
I am not a BEV hater. I ,merely point out the safety, cost
environmental and utility drawbacks of them
Like most ecobollox they are no solution to anything except
manufacturers need to sell expensive 'shiny new thing that makes
everything better' to the sort of gullible idiots who buy Apple products
Mine stops my drive being polluted with exhaust fumes. You're just
biassed because you can't afford one.
My car doesn't pollute my drive with exhaust fumes.
Of course it does. You juust can't smell it.
Post by The Natural Philosopher
You're just biassed because you have been conned. -
In what way have I been conned? Since I bought it liquid fuel has gone up
50% in price. I charge mainly at home on a cheap overnight rate.
No nasty engine noise, either.
--
from KT24 in Surrey, England - sent from my RISC OS 4té˛
"I'd rather die of exhaustion than die of boredom" Thomas Carlyle
nib
2025-02-15 19:38:30 UTC
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Post by charles
Post by The Natural Philosopher
Post by charles
Post by The Natural Philosopher
Post by Tim+
Post by nib
Post by John R Walliker
Post by The Natural Philosopher
Most "proper" EVs can take about 150kW, so more like 450 miles
added per hour, which makes it possible to get a useful addition
in a short stop
150kW is completely beyond any *domestic* installation.
And probably hard to find elsewhere.
Not difficult around here. The local Waitrose has 120kW chargers and
Sainsbury's has 150kW chargers.
John
Post by The Natural Philosopher
150kW is completely beyond any *domestic* installation.
Of course it is. At home you charge at 7 kW overnight. All EVs do
that. On a journey you want to charge in a few minutes while you
have a pee and a coffee; that's when you use the 150 kW public
superfast chargers. Not all EVs can do that. Surely that's obvious?
Not to dyed in the wool EV haters.
I am not a BEV hater. I ,merely point out the safety, cost
environmental and utility drawbacks of them
Like most ecobollox they are no solution to anything except
manufacturers need to sell expensive 'shiny new thing that makes
everything better' to the sort of gullible idiots who buy Apple products
Mine stops my drive being polluted with exhaust fumes. You're just
biassed because you can't afford one.
My car doesn't pollute my drive with exhaust fumes.
Of course it does. You juust can't smell it.
Post by The Natural Philosopher
You're just biassed because you have been conned. -
In what way have I been conned? Since I bought it liquid fuel has gone up
50% in price. I charge mainly at home on a cheap overnight rate.
No nasty engine noise, either.
We've both been conned - why else would we have bought cars that we like?

nib
Andrew
2025-02-16 18:40:11 UTC
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Post by charles
Post by The Natural Philosopher
Post by charles
Post by The Natural Philosopher
Post by Tim+
Post by nib
Post by John R Walliker
Post by The Natural Philosopher
Most "proper" EVs can take about 150kW, so more like 450 miles
added per hour, which makes it possible to get a useful addition
in a short stop
150kW is completely beyond any *domestic* installation.
And probably hard to find elsewhere.
Not difficult around here. The local Waitrose has 120kW chargers and
Sainsbury's has 150kW chargers.
John
Post by The Natural Philosopher
150kW is completely beyond any *domestic* installation.
Of course it is. At home you charge at 7 kW overnight. All EVs do
that. On a journey you want to charge in a few minutes while you
have a pee and a coffee; that's when you use the 150 kW public
superfast chargers. Not all EVs can do that. Surely that's obvious?
Not to dyed in the wool EV haters.
I am not a BEV hater. I ,merely point out the safety, cost
environmental and utility drawbacks of them
Like most ecobollox they are no solution to anything except
manufacturers need to sell expensive 'shiny new thing that makes
everything better' to the sort of gullible idiots who buy Apple products
Mine stops my drive being polluted with exhaust fumes. You're just
biassed because you can't afford one.
My car doesn't pollute my drive with exhaust fumes.
Of course it does. You juust can't smell it.
All diesel engines emit a diesel smell. Some far worse
than others, like all of them built before 2016
Fredxx
2025-02-16 11:55:54 UTC
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Post by The Natural Philosopher
Post by charles
Post by The Natural Philosopher
Post by Tim+
Post by nib
Post by The Natural Philosopher
Most "proper" EVs can take about 150kW, so more like 450 miles
added per hour, which makes it possible to get a useful addition in
a short stop
150kW is completely beyond any *domestic* installation.
And probably hard to find elsewhere.
Not difficult around here.  The local Waitrose has 120kW chargers and
Sainsbury's has 150kW chargers.
John
Post by The Natural Philosopher
150kW is completely beyond any *domestic* installation.
Of course it is. At home you charge at 7 kW overnight. All EVs do
that. On a journey you want to charge in a few minutes while you have
a pee and a coffee; that's when you use the 150 kW public superfast
chargers. Not all EVs can do that. Surely that's obvious?
Not to dyed in the wool EV haters.
I am not a BEV hater. I ,merely point out the safety, cost environmental
and utility drawbacks of them
Like most ecobollox they are no solution to anything except
manufacturers need to sell expensive 'shiny new thing that makes
everything better' to the sort of gullible idiots who buy Apple products
Mine stops my drive being polluted with exhaust fumes. You're just biassed
because you can't afford one.
My car doesn't pollute my drive with exhaust fumes.
Once again you are in denial of the facts or distorting the facts by not
parking your car on your drive.
SH
2025-02-15 14:08:56 UTC
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Post by nib
Post by The Natural Philosopher
Most "proper" EVs can take about 150kW, so more like 450 miles added
per hour, which makes it possible to get a useful addition in a
short stop
150kW is completely beyond any *domestic* installation.
And probably hard to find elsewhere.
Not difficult around here.  The local Waitrose has 120kW chargers and
Sainsbury's has 150kW chargers.
John
Post by The Natural Philosopher
150kW is completely beyond any *domestic* installation.
Of course it is. At home you charge at 7 kW overnight. All EVs do that.
On a journey you want to charge in a few minutes while you have a pee
and a coffee; that's when you use the 150 kW public superfast chargers.
Not all EVs can do that. Surely that's obvious?
nib
150,000 W / 220 V = 682 A.

So assuming an extra 50% amperage for the charging cable to minimise
heating/resistive losses

You'd require cable capabile of carrying 1000A.

Domestic meter tails are 25 mm2 and good for 100A continuous current

So 1000A cable would require 250 mm2 which is a cable diameter of 18 mm
plus insulation, and you'd need 3 of these for live, neutral and earth.

So you're looking at a hookup cable of around 50 mm diameter?
Andy Burns
2025-02-15 14:11:25 UTC
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Post by SH
150,000 W / 220 V = 682 A.
But rapid chargers don't supply 230 VAC, they connect straight to the
battery at 400 or 800 VDC whatever
nib
2025-02-15 14:16:45 UTC
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Post by SH
Post by The Natural Philosopher
Most "proper" EVs can take about 150kW, so more like 450 miles
added per hour, which makes it possible to get a useful addition in
a short stop
150kW is completely beyond any *domestic* installation.
And probably hard to find elsewhere.
Not difficult around here.  The local Waitrose has 120kW chargers and
Sainsbury's has 150kW chargers.
John
 >> 150kW is completely beyond any *domestic* installation.
Of course it is. At home you charge at 7 kW overnight. All EVs do
that. On a journey you want to charge in a few minutes while you have
a pee and a coffee; that's when you use the 150 kW public superfast
chargers. Not all EVs can do that. Surely that's obvious?
nib
150,000 W / 220 V = 682 A.
So assuming an extra 50% amperage for the charging cable to minimise
heating/resistive losses
You'd require cable capabile of carrying 1000A.
Domestic meter tails are 25 mm2 and good for 100A continuous current
So 1000A cable would require 250 mm2 which is a cable diameter of 18 mm
plus insulation, and you'd need 3 of these for live, neutral and earth.
So you're looking at a hookup cable of around 50 mm diameter?
What are you burbling about? Domestic EV chargers are mostly 7 kW
single-phase AC, quite easy, 30 A. Service station type superfast
chargers are often 150 kW, sometimes more, and work at 400 V or 800 V DC.

nib
Andy Burns
2025-02-15 14:24:48 UTC
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Post by SH
assuming an extra 50% amperage for the charging cable to minimise
heating/resistive losses
You'd require cable capabile of carrying 1000A.
High power chargers have liquid cooled cables/connectors
charles
2025-02-15 15:00:02 UTC
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Post by SH
Post by nib
Post by John R Walliker
Post by The Natural Philosopher
Most "proper" EVs can take about 150kW, so more like 450 miles added
per hour, which makes it possible to get a useful addition in a
short stop
150kW is completely beyond any *domestic* installation.
And probably hard to find elsewhere.
Not difficult around here. The local Waitrose has 120kW chargers and
Sainsbury's has 150kW chargers.
John
Post by The Natural Philosopher
150kW is completely beyond any *domestic* installation.
Of course it is. At home you charge at 7 kW overnight. All EVs do that.
On a journey you want to charge in a few minutes while you have a pee
and a coffee; that's when you use the 150 kW public superfast chargers.
Not all EVs can do that. Surely that's obvious?
nib
150,000 W / 220 V = 682 A.
But it's not 220v. Probably 480v
--
from KT24 in Surrey, England - sent from my RISC OS 4té˛
"I'd rather die of exhaustion than die of boredom" Thomas Carlyle
SH
2025-02-15 15:41:21 UTC
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Post by charles
Post by SH
Post by nib
Post by John R Walliker
Post by The Natural Philosopher
Most "proper" EVs can take about 150kW, so more like 450 miles added
per hour, which makes it possible to get a useful addition in a
short stop
150kW is completely beyond any *domestic* installation.
And probably hard to find elsewhere.
Not difficult around here. The local Waitrose has 120kW chargers and
Sainsbury's has 150kW chargers.
John
Post by The Natural Philosopher
150kW is completely beyond any *domestic* installation.
Of course it is. At home you charge at 7 kW overnight. All EVs do that.
On a journey you want to charge in a few minutes while you have a pee
and a coffee; that's when you use the 150 kW public superfast chargers.
Not all EVs can do that. Surely that's obvious?
nib
150,000 W / 220 V = 682 A.
But it's not 220v. Probably 480v
Thats a current of 312 A....
charles
2025-02-15 17:00:02 UTC
Reply
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Post by SH
Post by charles
Post by SH
Post by nib
Post by John R Walliker
Post by The Natural Philosopher
Most "proper" EVs can take about 150kW, so more like 450 miles added
per hour, which makes it possible to get a useful addition in a
short stop
150kW is completely beyond any *domestic* installation.
And probably hard to find elsewhere.
Not difficult around here. The local Waitrose has 120kW chargers and
Sainsbury's has 150kW chargers.
John
Post by The Natural Philosopher
150kW is completely beyond any *domestic* installation.
Of course it is. At home you charge at 7 kW overnight. All EVs do that.
On a journey you want to charge in a few minutes while you have a pee
and a coffee; that's when you use the 150 kW public superfast chargers.
Not all EVs can do that. Surely that's obvious?
nib
150,000 W / 220 V = 682 A.
But it's not 220v. Probably 480v
Thats a current of 312 A....
3 phases
--
from KT24 in Surrey, England - sent from my RISC OS 4té˛
"I'd rather die of exhaustion than die of boredom" Thomas Carlyle
SH
2025-02-15 17:35:47 UTC
Reply
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Post by charles
Post by SH
Post by charles
Post by SH
Post by nib
Post by John R Walliker
Post by The Natural Philosopher
Most "proper" EVs can take about 150kW, so more like 450 miles added
per hour, which makes it possible to get a useful addition in a
short stop
150kW is completely beyond any *domestic* installation.
And probably hard to find elsewhere.
Not difficult around here. The local Waitrose has 120kW chargers and
Sainsbury's has 150kW chargers.
John
Post by The Natural Philosopher
150kW is completely beyond any *domestic* installation.
Of course it is. At home you charge at 7 kW overnight. All EVs do that.
On a journey you want to charge in a few minutes while you have a pee
and a coffee; that's when you use the 150 kW public superfast chargers.
Not all EVs can do that. Surely that's obvious?
nib
150,000 W / 220 V = 682 A.
But it's not 220v. Probably 480v
Thats a current of 312 A....
3 phases
and how many domestic houses have 3 phase supplies...

and once you add on the electric shower, electric cooker, Economy night
storage heaters.... still need to uprate to in excess of 100A per phase
nib
2025-02-15 17:43:35 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by SH
Post by charles
Post by SH
Post by charles
Post by SH
Post by The Natural Philosopher
Most "proper" EVs can take about 150kW, so more like 450 miles added
per hour, which makes it possible to get a useful addition in a
short stop
150kW is completely beyond any *domestic* installation.
And probably hard to find elsewhere.
Not difficult around here.  The local Waitrose has 120kW chargers and
Sainsbury's has 150kW chargers.
John
   >> 150kW is completely beyond any *domestic* installation.
Of course it is. At home you charge at 7 kW overnight. All EVs do that.
On a journey you want to charge in a few minutes while you have a pee
and a coffee; that's when you use the 150 kW public superfast chargers.
Not all EVs can do that. Surely that's obvious?
nib
150,000 W / 220 V = 682 A.
But it's not 220v. Probably 480v
Thats a current of 312 A....
3 phases
and how many domestic houses have 3 phase supplies...
and once you add on the electric shower, electric cooker, Economy night
storage heaters.... still need to uprate to in excess of 100A per phase
Why are we still muttering about high powers on domestic wiring?

Again:

Domestic EV chargers are mostly 7 kW designed for overnight charging.

In-journey chargers at service stations are 150 kW or more, often in
groups of a dozen or more, and have industrial-scale power feeds in the
multiple megawatt region.

nib
SH
2025-02-15 20:56:52 UTC
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Post by nib
Post by SH
Post by charles
Post by SH
Post by charles
Post by SH
Post by The Natural Philosopher
Most "proper" EVs can take about 150kW, so more like 450 miles added
per hour, which makes it possible to get a useful addition in a
short stop
150kW is completely beyond any *domestic* installation.
And probably hard to find elsewhere.
Not difficult around here.  The local Waitrose has 120kW chargers and
Sainsbury's has 150kW chargers.
John
   >> 150kW is completely beyond any *domestic* installation.
Of course it is. At home you charge at 7 kW overnight. All EVs do that.
On a journey you want to charge in a few minutes while you have a pee
and a coffee; that's when you use the 150 kW public superfast chargers.
Not all EVs can do that. Surely that's obvious?
nib
150,000 W / 220 V = 682 A.
But it's not 220v. Probably 480v
Thats a current of 312 A....
3 phases
and how many domestic houses have 3 phase supplies...
and once you add on the electric shower, electric cooker, Economy
night storage heaters.... still need to uprate to in excess of 100A
per phase
Why are we still muttering about high powers on domestic wiring?
Domestic EV chargers are mostly 7 kW designed for overnight charging.
In-journey chargers at service stations are 150 kW or more, often in
groups of a dozen or more, and have industrial-scale power feeds in the
multiple megawatt region.
nib
So in other words, one can benefit from E7 tariff when using a granny
charger....

If you want a higher charge rate, you have take your car to and to pay
through the nose at a fast electron filling station with a GW or two
national grid connection?
SteveW
2025-02-15 21:20:56 UTC
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Post by SH
Post by nib
Post by SH
Post by charles
Post by SH
Post by charles
Post by SH
Post by The Natural Philosopher
Most "proper" EVs can take about 150kW, so more like 450 miles added
per hour, which makes it possible to get a useful addition in a
short stop
150kW is completely beyond any *domestic* installation.
And probably hard to find elsewhere.
Not difficult around here.  The local Waitrose has 120kW chargers and
Sainsbury's has 150kW chargers.
John
   >> 150kW is completely beyond any *domestic* installation.
Of course it is. At home you charge at 7 kW overnight. All EVs do that.
On a journey you want to charge in a few minutes while you have a pee
and a coffee; that's when you use the 150 kW public superfast chargers.
Not all EVs can do that. Surely that's obvious?
nib
150,000 W / 220 V = 682 A.
But it's not 220v. Probably 480v
Thats a current of 312 A....
3 phases
and how many domestic houses have 3 phase supplies...
and once you add on the electric shower, electric cooker, Economy
night storage heaters.... still need to uprate to in excess of 100A
per phase
Why are we still muttering about high powers on domestic wiring?
Domestic EV chargers are mostly 7 kW designed for overnight charging.
In-journey chargers at service stations are 150 kW or more, often in
groups of a dozen or more, and have industrial-scale power feeds in
the multiple megawatt region.
nib
So in other words, one can benefit from E7 tariff when using a granny
charger....
If you want a higher charge rate, you have take your car to and to pay
through the nose at a fast electron filling station with a GW or two
national grid connection?
A home charger is typically 7kW and will charge most EVs from flat to
full overnight, while you sleep. Most electricity companies offer EV
tariffs - mine give all my electricity at a standard 24.14p/kWh (no
increases at peak times), but monitors car charging (I set when I need
the car for and it sets a schedule that meets that while best suiting
the company) and refunds 17.4p/kWh - so car charging cost just 7p/kWh.
Theo
2025-02-15 21:32:40 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by SH
Post by nib
Why are we still muttering about high powers on domestic wiring?
Domestic EV chargers are mostly 7 kW designed for overnight charging.
In-journey chargers at service stations are 150 kW or more, often in
groups of a dozen or more, and have industrial-scale power feeds in the
multiple megawatt region.
So in other words, one can benefit from E7 tariff when using a granny
charger....
If you want a higher charge rate, you have take your car to and to pay
through the nose at a fast electron filling station with a GW or two
national grid connection?
For a home charger you can go up to 7kW single phase or 22kW 3-phase. With
E7 that gives you 49 or 154kWh at cheap rate per day. Most EVs have a
50-80kWh battery, and most people only drive tens of miles per day, which at
4 mi/kWh consumption works out at 5-10 kWh.

(there are also EV specific tariffs offering a lower rate for eg 5 hours
overnight at 7.5p/kWh)

If you're on a road trip away from home you can use a 50-350kW rapid charger
so you don't have to stop for much beyond a pee/coffee/lunch break - you pay
more per kWh for that facility.

Most people don't do hundreds of miles road trips very often so it's a small
part of their overall charging expenditure.

Theo
charles
2025-02-15 22:00:02 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by SH
Post by nib
Post by SH
Post by charles
Post by SH
Post by charles
Post by SH
Post by nib
Post by John R Walliker
Post by The Natural Philosopher
Most "proper" EVs can take about 150kW, so more like 450 miles
added per hour, which makes it possible to get a useful
addition in a short stop
150kW is completely beyond any *domestic* installation.
And probably hard to find elsewhere.
Not difficult around here. The local Waitrose has 120kW chargers and
Sainsbury's has 150kW chargers.
John
Post by The Natural Philosopher
150kW is completely beyond any *domestic* installation.
Of course it is. At home you charge at 7 kW overnight. All EVs do
that. On a journey you want to charge in a few minutes while you
have a pee and a coffee; that's when you use the 150 kW public
superfast chargers. Not all EVs can do that. Surely that's
obvious?
nib
150,000 W / 220 V = 682 A.
But it's not 220v. Probably 480v
Thats a current of 312 A....
3 phases
and how many domestic houses have 3 phase supplies...
and once you add on the electric shower, electric cooker, Economy
night storage heaters.... still need to uprate to in excess of 100A
per phase
Why are we still muttering about high powers on domestic wiring?
Domestic EV chargers are mostly 7 kW designed for overnight charging.
In-journey chargers at service stations are 150 kW or more, often in
groups of a dozen or more, and have industrial-scale power feeds in the
multiple megawatt region.
nib
So in other words, one can benefit from E7 tariff when using a granny
charger....
what's known as a "Granny Charger" is a lead that plugs into a 13A socket.
I use a dedicated 32A outlet for overnight charging.
Post by SH
If you want a higher charge rate, you have take your car to and to pay
through the nose at a fast electron filling station with a GW or two
national grid connection?
If I'm on a long journey, yes.
--
from KT24 in Surrey, England - sent from my RISC OS 4té˛
"I'd rather die of exhaustion than die of boredom" Thomas Carlyle
Tim+
2025-02-15 22:02:59 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by SH
Post by nib
Post by SH
Post by charles
Post by SH
Post by charles
Post by SH
Post by The Natural Philosopher
Most "proper" EVs can take about 150kW, so more like 450 miles added
per hour, which makes it possible to get a useful addition in a
short stop
150kW is completely beyond any *domestic* installation.
And probably hard to find elsewhere.
Not difficult around here.  The local Waitrose has 120kW chargers and
Sainsbury's has 150kW chargers.
John
   >> 150kW is completely beyond any *domestic* installation.
Of course it is. At home you charge at 7 kW overnight. All EVs do that.
On a journey you want to charge in a few minutes while you have a pee
and a coffee; that's when you use the 150 kW public superfast chargers.
Not all EVs can do that. Surely that's obvious?
nib
150,000 W / 220 V = 682 A.
But it's not 220v. Probably 480v
Thats a current of 312 A....
3 phases
and how many domestic houses have 3 phase supplies...
and once you add on the electric shower, electric cooker, Economy
night storage heaters.... still need to uprate to in excess of 100A
per phase
Why are we still muttering about high powers on domestic wiring?
Domestic EV chargers are mostly 7 kW designed for overnight charging.
In-journey chargers at service stations are 150 kW or more, often in
groups of a dozen or more, and have industrial-scale power feeds in the
multiple megawatt region.
nib
So in other words, one can benefit from E7 tariff when using a granny
charger....
A granny charger is typically limited to 2kW (as it plugs into a standard
13amp socket). Consequently the benefits of being on E7 will be relatively
small.

Most EV owners will have a 7kW charger installed and will be on EV tariffs
with much bigger discounts for off peak charging.
Post by SH
If you want a higher charge rate, you have take your car to and to pay
through the nose at a fast electron filling station with a GW or two
national grid connection?
I’ve put over 60,000 miles on my EV over four years. I’ve probably used
public DC chargers about half a dozen times over that time, all the rest on
home charging. If you have a 7kW charger it’s possible to do the vast
majority of the charging you need at home.

Yes, public charging can be expensive but then so is buying fuel on
motorways. If you need it you just suck it up and pay.

Tim
--
Please don't feed the trolls
Chris Green
2025-02-16 09:03:36 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by Tim+
Post by SH
So in other words, one can benefit from E7 tariff when using a granny
charger....
A granny charger is typically limited to 2kW (as it plugs into a standard
13amp socket). Consequently the benefits of being on E7 will be relatively
small.
Most EV owners will have a 7kW charger installed and will be on EV tariffs
with much bigger discounts for off peak charging.
You can get the EV tariffs even if you just charge from a 13 amp
socket, we do.

Also 'a granny charger' is nearer 3kW than 2kW. 230 volts at 13 amps
is 2990 watts. In reality most supplies are nearer to 240 volts than
230 volts, ours certainly is.
--
Chris Green
·
Andy Burns
2025-02-16 09:31:14 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by Chris Green
'a granny charger' is nearer 3kW than 2kW. 230 volts at 13 amps
is 2990 watts. In reality most supplies are nearer to 240 volts than
230 volts, ours certainly is.
Don't most granny "chargers" signal 10A max to the car, rather than 13A?
charles
2025-02-16 10:30:02 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by Andy Burns
Post by Chris Green
'a granny charger' is nearer 3kW than 2kW. 230 volts at 13 amps
is 2990 watts. In reality most supplies are nearer to 240 volts than
230 volts, ours certainly is.
Don't most granny "chargers" signal 10A max to the car, rather than 13A?
The one I keep for emergencies in my car boot (A VW/Skoda part) says 10A
max.
--
from KT24 in Surrey, England - sent from my RISC OS 4té˛
"I'd rather die of exhaustion than die of boredom" Thomas Carlyle
Chris Green
2025-02-16 10:20:43 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by Andy Burns
Post by Chris Green
'a granny charger' is nearer 3kW than 2kW. 230 volts at 13 amps
is 2990 watts. In reality most supplies are nearer to 240 volts than
230 volts, ours certainly is.
Don't most granny "chargers" signal 10A max to the car, rather than 13A?
Yes, you may be right there. It's still 2.4kW if the voltage is 240
volts.
--
Chris Green
·
nib
2025-02-16 10:37:32 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by Chris Green
Post by Tim+
Post by SH
So in other words, one can benefit from E7 tariff when using a granny
charger....
A granny charger is typically limited to 2kW (as it plugs into a standard
13amp socket). Consequently the benefits of being on E7 will be relatively
small.
Most EV owners will have a 7kW charger installed and will be on EV tariffs
with much bigger discounts for off peak charging.
You can get the EV tariffs even if you just charge from a 13 amp
socket, we do.
Also 'a granny charger' is nearer 3kW than 2kW. 230 volts at 13 amps
is 2990 watts. In reality most supplies are nearer to 240 volts than
230 volts, ours certainly is.
Neither of ours will draw 13A, more like 10.5A. And the plugs can get a
bit warm even at that current!

nib
charles
2025-02-15 18:15:02 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by SH
Post by charles
Post by SH
Post by charles
Post by SH
Post by nib
Post by John R Walliker
Post by The Natural Philosopher
Most "proper" EVs can take about 150kW, so more like 450 miles
added per hour, which makes it possible to get a useful addition
in a short stop
150kW is completely beyond any *domestic* installation.
And probably hard to find elsewhere.
Not difficult around here. The local Waitrose has 120kW chargers and
Sainsbury's has 150kW chargers.
John
Post by The Natural Philosopher
150kW is completely beyond any *domestic* installation.
Of course it is. At home you charge at 7 kW overnight. All EVs do
that. On a journey you want to charge in a few minutes while you
have a pee and a coffee; that's when you use the 150 kW public
superfast chargers. Not all EVs can do that. Surely that's obvious?
nib
150,000 W / 220 V = 682 A.
But it's not 220v. Probably 480v
Thats a current of 312 A....
3 phases
and how many domestic houses have 3 phase supplies...
You are confusing home charging - which has a 220V 30A supply and public
points such as are found at Motorway service centres amongst other places.
--
from KT24 in Surrey, England - sent from my RISC OS 4té˛
"I'd rather die of exhaustion than die of boredom" Thomas Carlyle
Tim+
2025-02-15 22:02:59 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by SH
Post by charles
Post by SH
Post by charles
Post by SH
Post by nib
Post by John R Walliker
Post by The Natural Philosopher
Most "proper" EVs can take about 150kW, so more like 450 miles added
per hour, which makes it possible to get a useful addition in a
short stop
150kW is completely beyond any *domestic* installation.
And probably hard to find elsewhere.
Not difficult around here. The local Waitrose has 120kW chargers and
Sainsbury's has 150kW chargers.
John
Post by The Natural Philosopher
150kW is completely beyond any *domestic* installation.
Of course it is. At home you charge at 7 kW overnight. All EVs do that.
On a journey you want to charge in a few minutes while you have a pee
and a coffee; that's when you use the 150 kW public superfast chargers.
Not all EVs can do that. Surely that's obvious?
nib
150,000 W / 220 V = 682 A.
But it's not 220v. Probably 480v
Thats a current of 312 A....
3 phases
and how many domestic houses have 3 phase supplies...
and once you add on the electric shower, electric cooker, Economy night
storage heaters.... still need to uprate to in excess of 100A per phase
Dear Lord, you really need to work out when to stop talking and revealing
your ignorance.



Tim
--
Please don't feed the trolls
Andrew
2025-02-16 18:44:30 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by Tim+
Post by SH
Post by charles
Post by SH
Post by charles
Post by SH
Post by nib
Post by John R Walliker
Post by The Natural Philosopher
Most "proper" EVs can take about 150kW, so more like 450 miles added
per hour, which makes it possible to get a useful addition in a
short stop
150kW is completely beyond any *domestic* installation.
And probably hard to find elsewhere.
Not difficult around here. The local Waitrose has 120kW chargers and
Sainsbury's has 150kW chargers.
John
Post by The Natural Philosopher
150kW is completely beyond any *domestic* installation.
Of course it is. At home you charge at 7 kW overnight. All EVs do that.
On a journey you want to charge in a few minutes while you have a pee
and a coffee; that's when you use the 150 kW public superfast chargers.
Not all EVs can do that. Surely that's obvious?
nib
150,000 W / 220 V = 682 A.
But it's not 220v. Probably 480v
Thats a current of 312 A....
3 phases
and how many domestic houses have 3 phase supplies...
and once you add on the electric shower, electric cooker, Economy night
storage heaters.... still need to uprate to in excess of 100A per phase
Dear Lord, you really need to work out when to stop talking and revealing
your ignorance.
isn't that why Dennis Thatcher was never heard in public ?
The Natural Philosopher
2025-02-15 15:31:19 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by SH
Post by The Natural Philosopher
Most "proper" EVs can take about 150kW, so more like 450 miles
added per hour, which makes it possible to get a useful addition in
a short stop
150kW is completely beyond any *domestic* installation.
And probably hard to find elsewhere.
Not difficult around here.  The local Waitrose has 120kW chargers and
Sainsbury's has 150kW chargers.
John
 >> 150kW is completely beyond any *domestic* installation.
Of course it is. At home you charge at 7 kW overnight. All EVs do
that. On a journey you want to charge in a few minutes while you have
a pee and a coffee; that's when you use the 150 kW public superfast
chargers. Not all EVs can do that. Surely that's obvious?
nib
150,000 W / 220 V = 682 A.
They probably have 10kV+ on the charge cable. To make it safe for
childrun-a...
--
“A leader is best When people barely know he exists. Of a good leader,
who talks little,When his work is done, his aim fulfilled,They will say,
“We did this ourselves.”

― Lao Tzu, Tao Te Ching
nib
2025-02-15 15:41:30 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by SH
Post by The Natural Philosopher
Most "proper" EVs can take about 150kW, so more like 450 miles
added per hour, which makes it possible to get a useful addition in
a short stop
150kW is completely beyond any *domestic* installation.
And probably hard to find elsewhere.
Not difficult around here.  The local Waitrose has 120kW chargers and
Sainsbury's has 150kW chargers.
John
 >> 150kW is completely beyond any *domestic* installation.
Of course it is. At home you charge at 7 kW overnight. All EVs do
that. On a journey you want to charge in a few minutes while you have
a pee and a coffee; that's when you use the 150 kW public superfast
chargers. Not all EVs can do that. Surely that's obvious?
nib
150,000 W / 220 V = 682 A.
So assuming an extra 50% amperage for the charging cable to minimise
heating/resistive losses
You'd require cable capabile of carrying 1000A.
Domestic meter tails are 25 mm2 and good for 100A continuous current
So 1000A cable would require 250 mm2 which is a cable diameter of 18 mm
plus insulation, and you'd need 3 of these for live, neutral and earth.
So you're looking at a hookup cable of around 50 mm diameter?
See link below for some idea of what is done in practice:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Combined_Charging_System

nib
charles
2025-02-15 14:30:02 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by The Natural Philosopher
Most "proper" EVs can take about 150kW, so more like 450 miles added
per hour, which makes it possible to get a useful addition in a short
stop
150kW is completely beyond any *domestic* installation.
And probably hard to find elsewhere.
According to ZapMap, which lists EV charging points, there are a
considerable number over 100kW and even a significant number at 300kW
--
from KT24 in Surrey, England - sent from my RISC OS 4té˛
"I'd rather die of exhaustion than die of boredom" Thomas Carlyle
Timatmarford
2025-02-15 15:53:05 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by The Natural Philosopher
Most "proper" EVs can take about 150kW, so more like 450 miles added
per hour, which makes it possible to get a useful addition in a short
stop
150kW is completely beyond any *domestic* installation.
It will be used as a shopping trolley with one annual trip of 120 miles.
Can charge from the domestic supply overnight at the holiday site.
Post by The Natural Philosopher
And probably hard to find elsewhere.
Planned parking has 3phase 60amp but little point for the likely use.
The Natural Philosopher
2025-02-15 16:52:30 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by Timatmarford
Post by The Natural Philosopher
Most "proper" EVs can take about 150kW, so more like 450 miles added
per hour, which makes it possible to get a useful addition in a short
stop
150kW is completely beyond any *domestic* installation.
It will be used as a shopping trolley with one annual trip of 120 miles.
Can charge from the domestic supply overnight at the holiday site.
Well provided that it is well away from your house when charging, and
off road, and no one starts taxing EVs, it will be ideal, if probably as
expensive as an IC car. In terms of TOC
Post by Timatmarford
Post by The Natural Philosopher
And probably hard to find elsewhere.
Planned parking has 3phase 60amp but little point for the likely use.
If you are not in a hurry a 13A socket is probably fine
--
"If you don’t read the news paper, you are un-informed. If you read the
news paper, you are mis-informed."

Mark Twain
Spike
2025-02-15 21:58:06 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Well provided that…
…no one starts taxing EVs
From the .gov web site:

“From 1 April 2025, registered keepers of electric, zero or low emission
cars, vans and motorcycles will need to pay vehicle tax in the same way as
registered keepers of petrol and diesel vehicles. This change will apply to
both new and existing vehicles.

This new measure removes band A under the existing VED system which is
currently £0. Vehicles in this band will be required to move to the first
band where a rate becomes payable.

How the changes will affect your vehicle

Electric, zero or low emission cars registered on or after 1 April 2025
You will need to pay the lowest first year rate of vehicle tax set at £10
from 1 April 2025. From the second tax payment onwards, you will pay the
standard rate. This will be £195.

Electric, zero or low emission cars registered between 1 April 2017 and 31
March 2025
You will pay the standard rate. This will be £195.

Electric, zero or low emission cars registered between 1 March 2001 and 31
March 2017
These vehicles will move to the first band that has a VED value. This will
be £20”.
--
Spike
alan_m
2025-02-16 07:52:45 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by Spike
Well provided that…
…no one starts taxing EVs
“From 1 April 2025, registered keepers of electric, zero or low emission
cars, vans and motorcycles will need to pay vehicle tax in the same way as
registered keepers of petrol and diesel vehicles. This change will apply to
both new and existing vehicles.
This new measure removes band A under the existing VED system which is
currently £0. Vehicles in this band will be required to move to the first
band where a rate becomes payable.
How the changes will affect your vehicle
Electric, zero or low emission cars registered on or after 1 April 2025
You will need to pay the lowest first year rate of vehicle tax set at £10
from 1 April 2025. From the second tax payment onwards, you will pay the
standard rate. This will be £195.
Electric, zero or low emission cars registered between 1 April 2017 and 31
March 2025
You will pay the standard rate. This will be £195.
Electric, zero or low emission cars registered between 1 March 2001 and 31
March 2017
These vehicles will move to the first band that has a VED value. This will
be £20”.
This is just the vehicle tax.

How soon will the Government start taxing EVs for the loss of revenue
from fuel duty? When the majority of cars are EVs the loss in tax will
£25 billion (at today's prices). Approx £850 per household per annum.

It could be road pricing but possibly the cheapest option for
collection, say, in 10 to 15 years time would be a vehicle tax of
£1000+/annum.
--
mailto : news {at} admac {dot} myzen {dot} co {dot} uk
Spike
2025-02-16 09:37:06 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by alan_m
Post by Spike
Well provided that…
…no one starts taxing EVs
“From 1 April 2025, registered keepers of electric, zero or low emission
cars, vans and motorcycles will need to pay vehicle tax in the same way as
registered keepers of petrol and diesel vehicles. This change will apply to
both new and existing vehicles.
This new measure removes band A under the existing VED system which is
currently £0. Vehicles in this band will be required to move to the first
band where a rate becomes payable.
How the changes will affect your vehicle
Electric, zero or low emission cars registered on or after 1 April 2025
You will need to pay the lowest first year rate of vehicle tax set at £10
from 1 April 2025. From the second tax payment onwards, you will pay the
standard rate. This will be £195.
Electric, zero or low emission cars registered between 1 April 2017 and 31
March 2025
You will pay the standard rate. This will be £195.
Electric, zero or low emission cars registered between 1 March 2001 and 31
March 2017
These vehicles will move to the first band that has a VED value. This will
be £20”.
This is just the vehicle tax.
How soon will the Government start taxing EVs for the loss of revenue
from fuel duty? When the majority of cars are EVs the loss in tax will
£25 billion (at today's prices). Approx £850 per household per annum.
It could be road pricing but possibly the cheapest option for
collection, say, in 10 to 15 years time would be a vehicle tax of
£1000+/annum.
And it will get worse, as groups such as cyclists try their best to force
people out of cars, using e.g. cycling infrastructure to make journeys
slower and less convenient, roads closed twice a day for ‘cycle buses’,
LTNs, 20 limits, casual criminal damage to cars that break their rules,
claims (unsubstantiated) that cycling improves health, appeals to ‘Dutch
models of cycling’ that ignore the fact that the cycling casualty rate
there is no better than the UK, island bus stops, camera enforcement of the
1.5m cycle-passing distance by cars that cyclists refuse to allow to
pedestrians…
--
Spike
Andrew
2025-02-16 18:46:28 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by alan_m
Post by Spike
Well provided that…
…no one starts taxing EVs
“From 1 April 2025, registered keepers of electric, zero or low emission
cars, vans and motorcycles will need to pay vehicle tax in the same way as
registered keepers of petrol and diesel vehicles. This change will apply to
both new and existing vehicles.
This new measure removes band A under the existing VED system which is
currently £0. Vehicles in this band will be required to move to the first
band where a rate becomes payable.
How the changes will affect your vehicle
Electric, zero or low emission cars registered on or after 1 April 2025
You will need to pay the lowest first year rate of vehicle tax set at £10
from 1 April 2025. From the second tax payment onwards, you will pay the
standard rate. This will be £195.
Electric, zero or low emission cars registered between 1 April 2017 and 31
March 2025
You will pay the standard rate. This will be £195.
Electric, zero or low emission cars registered between 1 March 2001 and 31
March 2017
These vehicles will move to the first band that has a VED value. This will
be £20”.
This is just the vehicle tax.
How soon will the Government start taxing EVs for the loss of revenue
from fuel duty?  When the majority of cars are EVs the loss in tax will
£25 billion (at today's prices). Approx £850 per household per annum.
It could be road pricing but possibly the cheapest option for
collection, say, in 10 to 15 years time would be a vehicle tax of
£1000+/annum.
Cough. Smart meters !!
ARW
2025-02-15 19:45:35 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by The Natural Philosopher
Most "proper" EVs can take about 150kW, so more like 450 miles added
per hour, which makes it possible to get a useful addition in a short
stop
150kW is completely beyond any *domestic* installation.
And probably hard to find elsewhere.
There are a bay of 12 (usually unused) CCS2 250kW chargers a couple of
miles from me.

That used to be a good dogging spot that Tesla have ruined.
SH
2025-02-15 20:54:37 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by ARW
Post by The Natural Philosopher
Most "proper" EVs can take about 150kW, so more like 450 miles added
per hour, which makes it possible to get a useful addition in a short
stop
150kW is completely beyond any *domestic* installation.
And probably hard to find elsewhere.
There are a bay of 12 (usually unused) CCS2 250kW chargers a couple of
miles from me.
That used to be a good dogging spot that Tesla have ruined.
the shock!
charles
2025-02-15 21:00:02 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by ARW
Post by The Natural Philosopher
Most "proper" EVs can take about 150kW, so more like 450 miles added
per hour, which makes it possible to get a useful addition in a short
stop
150kW is completely beyond any *domestic* installation.
And probably hard to find elsewhere.
There are a bay of 12 (usually unused) CCS2 250kW chargers a couple of
miles from me.
That used to be a good dogging spot that Tesla have ruined.
Ah, Tesla only.
--
from KT24 in Surrey, England - sent from my RISC OS 4té˛
"I'd rather die of exhaustion than die of boredom" Thomas Carlyle
Andy Burns
2025-02-15 11:08:46 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by nib
I think the display gadgetry is much the same in all cars nowadays!
My car has one screen for the dashboard, and another screen on the
console for its built-in maps, radio/music, etc, but it has physical
switches, knobs and buttons for everything and I will not switch to a
touch-screen based car ...
The Natural Philosopher
2025-02-15 11:28:01 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by Andy Burns
Post by nib
I think the display gadgetry is much the same in all cars nowadays!
My car has one screen for the dashboard, and another screen on the
console for its built-in maps, radio/music, etc, but it has physical
switches, knobs and buttons for everything and I will not switch to a
touch-screen based car ...
When my touch screen fails to boot, so does the car audio...
--
Religion is regarded by the common people as true, by the wise as
foolish, and by the rulers as useful.

(Seneca the Younger, 65 AD)
The Other John
2025-02-15 10:50:55 UTC
Reply
Permalink
I like my Nissan Leaf EV. Its specified range is 150 miles but as it's
now 8 years old the range is now only 85 miles. Also, me being 85 with
the memory span of a goldfish I can't remember what most of the controls do!
--
TOJ
The Natural Philosopher
2025-02-15 11:07:17 UTC
Reply
Permalink
I like my Nissan Leaf EV.  Its specified range is 150 miles but as it's
now 8 years old the range is now only 85 miles.  Also, me being 85 with
the memory span of a goldfish I can't remember what most of the controls do!
Don't be like my late mother. who forgot where the brake pedal was..
A few years before forgetting everything else, including how to breathe...
--
All political activity makes complete sense once the proposition that
all government is basically a self-legalising protection racket, is
fully understood.
The Other John
2025-02-15 12:43:11 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by The Natural Philosopher
Don't be like my late mother. who forgot where the brake pedal was..
A few years before forgetting everything else, including how to breathe...
I can remember what the pedals do and the imitation gear shift which
selects forward or reverse. I can also operate the radio.
--
TOJ
Timatmarford
2025-02-15 16:01:41 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by The Natural Philosopher
I like my Nissan Leaf EV.  Its specified range is 150 miles but as
it's now 8 years old the range is now only 85 miles.  Also, me being
85 with the memory span of a goldfish I can't remember what most of
the controls do!
Don't be like my late mother. who forgot where the brake pedal was..
A few years before forgetting everything else, including how to breathe...
Hmm. I haven't forgotten the pedal uses but I have size 11 feet and find
it very easy to get clutch/brake and brake/accelerator combinations on
my Passat:-(
Andrew
2025-02-16 18:51:23 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by Timatmarford
Post by The Natural Philosopher
I like my Nissan Leaf EV.  Its specified range is 150 miles but as
it's now 8 years old the range is now only 85 miles.  Also, me being
85 with the memory span of a goldfish I can't remember what most of
the controls do!
Don't be like my late mother. who forgot where the brake pedal was..
A few years before forgetting everything else, including how to breathe...
Hmm. I haven't forgotten the pedal uses but I have size 11 feet and find
it very easy to get clutch/brake and brake/accelerator combinations on
my Passat:-(
Shoes or Farmers wellies ?
alan_m
2025-02-15 16:10:09 UTC
Reply
Permalink
I like my Nissan Leaf EV.  Its specified range is 150 miles but as it's
now 8 years old the range is now only 85 miles.  Also, me being 85 with
the memory span of a goldfish I can't remember what most of the controls do!
The range figures are based on operating at an ambient temperature (20C)
and driving at a constant speed (often 55mph). Much like mpg figures for
a ICE car the range probably has to be taken with a small pinch of salt :)

Battery capacity figures usually indicate a 2% ageing loss per year but
will also be dependant on how the battery has been used and/or charged.
--
mailto : news {at} admac {dot} myzen {dot} co {dot} uk
SteveW
2025-02-15 20:43:32 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by alan_m
I like my Nissan Leaf EV.  Its specified range is 150 miles but as
it's now 8 years old the range is now only 85 miles.  Also, me being
85 with the memory span of a goldfish I can't remember what most of
the controls do!
The range figures are based on operating at an ambient temperature (20C)
and driving at a constant speed (often 55mph). Much like mpg figures for
a ICE car the range probably has to be taken with a small pinch of salt :)
Battery capacity figures usually indicate a 2% ageing loss per year but
will also be dependant on how the battery has been used and/or charged.
Our EV has a specified range of 281m. I tried driving (end of May) at a
steady 56mph, without the air-con and just cracking the windows or using
the fan for a few minutes when the screen started to mist up. I actually
got a range of 320m.
alan_m
2025-02-15 21:05:32 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by SteveW
Post by alan_m
I like my Nissan Leaf EV.  Its specified range is 150 miles but as
it's now 8 years old the range is now only 85 miles.  Also, me being
85 with the memory span of a goldfish I can't remember what most of
the controls do!
The range figures are based on operating at an ambient temperature
(20C) and driving at a constant speed (often 55mph). Much like mpg
figures for a ICE car the range probably has to be taken with a small
pinch of salt :)
Battery capacity figures usually indicate a 2% ageing loss per year
but will also be dependant on how the battery has been used and/or
charged.
Our EV has a specified range of 281m. I tried driving (end of May) at a
steady 56mph, without the air-con and just cracking the windows or using
the fan for a few minutes when the screen started to mist up. I actually
got a range of 320m.
Try that speed on the motorways I use and often you will be stuck behind
one HGV with another up inches away from your back bumper, and if on the
inside lane be boxed in by other HGVs over taking at a differential
speed of a few miles an hour faster :)
--
mailto : news {at} admac {dot} myzen {dot} co {dot} uk
SteveW
2025-02-15 21:23:44 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by alan_m
Post by SteveW
Post by alan_m
I like my Nissan Leaf EV.  Its specified range is 150 miles but as
it's now 8 years old the range is now only 85 miles.  Also, me being
85 with the memory span of a goldfish I can't remember what most of
the controls do!
The range figures are based on operating at an ambient temperature
(20C) and driving at a constant speed (often 55mph). Much like mpg
figures for a ICE car the range probably has to be taken with a small
pinch of salt :)
Battery capacity figures usually indicate a 2% ageing loss per year
but will also be dependant on how the battery has been used and/or
charged.
Our EV has a specified range of 281m. I tried driving (end of May) at
a steady 56mph, without the air-con and just cracking the windows or
using the fan for a few minutes when the screen started to mist up. I
actually got a range of 320m.
Try that speed on the motorways I use and often you will be stuck behind
one HGV with another up inches away from your back bumper, and if on the
inside lane be boxed in by other HGVs over taking at a differential
speed of a few miles an hour faster :)
It's no problem. Most trucks are sitting at 56. If I start to catch one
up, the car will slow to match its speed. Faster trucks will pull out
and pass.

In my other car (a 58 year-old Land Rover), 56 is about the top speed
anyway!
charles
2025-02-15 21:30:02 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by SteveW
Post by alan_m
Post by The Other John
I like my Nissan Leaf EV. Its specified range is 150 miles but as
it's now 8 years old the range is now only 85 miles. Also, me being
85 with the memory span of a goldfish I can't remember what most of
the controls do!
The range figures are based on operating at an ambient temperature
(20C) and driving at a constant speed (often 55mph). Much like mpg
figures for a ICE car the range probably has to be taken with a small
pinch of salt :)
Battery capacity figures usually indicate a 2% ageing loss per year but
will also be dependant on how the battery has been used and/or charged.
Our EV has a specified range of 281m. I tried driving (end of May) at a
steady 56mph, without the air-con and just cracking the windows or using
the fan for a few minutes when the screen started to mist up. I actually
got a range of 320m.
With my Enyaq, I get pretty close to the advertised mileage if I have a max
speed of 63mph. I use the aircon.
--
from KT24 in Surrey, England - sent from my RISC OS 4té˛
"I'd rather die of exhaustion than die of boredom" Thomas Carlyle
Theo
2025-02-15 11:04:22 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by Timatmarford
Following the interest in the EV thread I thought it timely to ask for
comment on replacing my wife's 2009 60k miles diesel Fiesta. About
2000m/year of local trips so the MOT smoke test a burden. (overcome so
far by a preceding long motorway trip!)
For several years, we have talked about changing to a new, battery, 4
seater vehicle. Range 150 miles would do.
Neither of us (80 just and 81) have ever driven one! From the passenger
seat, the complexity of the electronic display gadgetry is
incomprehensible! One of us is still struggling to operate her new TV!
What's your budget?

Do you mean 'new' as in brand new, or are you thinking used?

If used, how used are you comfortable with (1 year nearly-new with warranty
or 15 yo seasoned bangerologist)?

What's your preference in terms of size/shape - ie supermini, saloon, family
hatchback, crossover, SUV, estate, ...?

Do you have space to charge at home (driveway, garage, ...) or will you be
relying on public charging?

Any specific requirements (dodgy hips mean you need a high driving position,
need space for the dog, ...?)

Theo
Timatmarford
2025-02-15 16:10:00 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by Theo
Post by Timatmarford
Following the interest in the EV thread I thought it timely to ask for
comment on replacing my wife's 2009 60k miles diesel Fiesta. About
2000m/year of local trips so the MOT smoke test a burden. (overcome so
far by a preceding long motorway trip!)
For several years, we have talked about changing to a new, battery, 4
seater vehicle. Range 150 miles would do.
Neither of us (80 just and 81) have ever driven one! From the passenger
seat, the complexity of the electronic display gadgetry is
incomprehensible! One of us is still struggling to operate her new TV!
What's your budget?
Do you mean 'new' as in brand new, or are you thinking used?
If used, how used are you comfortable with (1 year nearly-new with warranty
or 15 yo seasoned bangerologist)?
What's your preference in terms of size/shape - ie supermini, saloon, family
hatchback, crossover, SUV, estate, ...?
Do you have space to charge at home (driveway, garage, ...) or will you be
relying on public charging?
Any specific requirements (dodgy hips mean you need a high driving position,
need space for the dog, ...?)
Theo
Ah! The first potentially useful post:-)

£20k would be good. 1 year + guarantee would be considered.

4 seats (for when she takes her lady friends somewhere) Super-mini or
small hatch.

This is a farm! No dog and currently no special needs.
Theo
2025-02-15 17:50:30 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by Timatmarford
Ah! The first potentially useful post:-)
£20k would be good. 1 year + guarantee would be considered.
4 seats (for when she takes her lady friends somewhere) Super-mini or
small hatch.
This is a farm! No dog and currently no special needs.
Re farm, does that mean any kind of 4 wheel drive capability is useful
(muddy tracks etc)? 4WD is relatively straightforward on EVs but it bumps
you towards bigger models.

Of the small/cheap EVs available new, some examples with list prices
(probably deals available from dealers):

Dacia Spring, £15k:


Renault 5, £23k:


Fiat Grande Panda, £21k:


Hyundai Inster, £23k


If going used there's a lot more to choose from, and £20k gives a lot of
headroom to play with. Here's an autotrader search (max £25k, 2023 or
later, hatchback, electric) with 2200 results:

https://www.autotrader.co.uk/car-search?advertising-location=at_cars&body-type=Hatchback&fuel-type=Electric&postcode=sw1a1aa&price-to=25000&sort=relevance&year-from=2023

Some examples:

MG4:

Citroen e-C4:

Fiat 500e:

Vauxhall Corsa-e:

Peugeot e-208:

Honda E (very overpriced at launch but used examples are within your budget)


(bear in mind things have moved on quite a bit in the last few years, so a
review of a new car 5 years ago wouldn't be the same as reviewing the same
car today. 'Electrifying' (see below) have some videos on how used EVs
stand up)

I'd not touch the Nissan Leaf (no battery thermal management which causes
range loss over time), Teslas (touchscreens, lack of indicator stalks),
anything Chinese (touchscreens, although some MGs are ok), VW ID.3/ID.4
(capacitive buttons). The Cupra Born might be a contender but I think it
has the same buttons as the ID.3

If you're prepared to go older than 2023 then there are more models that
come into budget. In particular your application is probably suitable for
an older EV that has much less range (something like the BMW i3) at a much
lower price point, although at this point you might want a newer model for
the warranty and more range in hand for peace of mind about not needing to
find a charger (if you avoid a few bad designs most EVs are pretty reliable,
but with warranty you get somebody to moan at). You can get quite a lot of
EV for £10-15k including some remaining warranty.

Re screens, most of them have some kind of screen for the reversing camera
(a legal requirement in some places), but it depends whether the controls
you need (heating, radio, etc) are on physical buttons or buried in menus.
I can't remember what they all do, but if you watch some videos it should
give you an idea. It's possible that they'll still need some degree of
poking in touchscreen menus to configure various things which you don't need
to use day to day.

(One thing to watch is that to get a EuroNCAP 5* safety rating cars must
have various safety features like 'lane keeping assist' turned on every time
you start the car, and if their beeps are annoying you have to turn that off
each time. That may involve the touch screen, although there may be a
physical button or a way to program one with that feature. This applies to
all modern cars, EV or not)

A couple of Youtube channels worth watching are 'Fully Charged' (in
links above) and 'Electrifying':
https://www.youtube.com/@fullychargedshow
https://www.youtube.com/@Electrifyingcom

They also have some 'EVs for beginners' series which are probably worth
watching to get you up to speed with some basics.

Re charging, you can likely install a 3 phase chargepoint on your farm, but
if it's mostly going to be a shopping trolley there's not a lot of point as
a single phase supply might charge fast enough. Unless you're likely to be
using a bigger EV or electric farming vehicles then there might be.

(rough ballpark: a good EV does 4 miles per kWh, so for every kW of your
charger you get 4 miles of added range per hour of charging. A 7kWh
single-phase charger gives you 28 miles range added per hour, while a 22kW
three-phase charger gets you 88 mph. If your longest road trip is 120 miles
round trip then a 7 kWh charger will refill it in 5 hours. Done overnight
you probably don't need anything faster, and not all cars can charge at 11
or 22kW)

Theo
Andy Burns
2025-02-15 21:36:28 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by Theo
One thing to watch is that to get a EuroNCAP 5* safety rating cars must
have various safety features like 'lane keeping assist' turned on every time
you start the car
I think the Renault Zoe is out of production now, but one to avoid as
its NCAP score went down to zero after they removed some airbags!

Was it you that mentioned (either here or in u.l.m) the Citroen Ami?
I can't find that thread.

I know that technically it's not classed as a car, the chap who bought
the first official UK car, only did about a thousand miles in it over
two years, during which time it needed a new motor, apparently then it
b0rked again and requires a full drive train replacement costing more
than the new price ... he did get Citroen to give him a full refund even
after the warranty period ...
Theo
2025-02-15 22:20:01 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by Andy Burns
Post by Theo
One thing to watch is that to get a EuroNCAP 5* safety rating cars must
have various safety features like 'lane keeping assist' turned on every time
you start the car
I think the Renault Zoe is out of production now, but one to avoid as
its NCAP score went down to zero after they removed some airbags!
Early Zoes are worth avoiding because their batteries can be on a separate
lease agreement, and it costs a couple of grand to buy out the battery from
Renault else you're paying ~£50/month for the lease.
Post by Andy Burns
Was it you that mentioned (either here or in u.l.m) the Citroen Ami?
I can't find that thread.
Yep. (uk.telecom.something)
Post by Andy Burns
I know that technically it's not classed as a car, the chap who bought
the first official UK car, only did about a thousand miles in it over
two years, during which time it needed a new motor, apparently then it
b0rked again and requires a full drive train replacement costing more
than the new price ... he did get Citroen to give him a full refund even
after the warranty period ...
They're very popular in France (where you can drive them without a licence).
I suspect he just got a lemon.

Theo
Theo
2025-02-15 22:14:42 UTC
Reply
Permalink
I have been looking at published road tests and picked out the Citroen
EC3 as appearing to fit the requirements. Cash purchase seems to knock
the prices back a bit! Lack of a heat pump a consideration but losing
range doesn't matter much for the shopping job.
Probably not, and the actual range loss may not be so bad.

The e-C3 does look good in terms of KISS, you can even get it without a
centre dash screen (although the speedos are still a separate display).
Post by Theo
If going used there's a lot more to choose from, and £20k gives a lot of
headroom to play with. Here's an autotrader search (max £25k, 2023 or
The plan is to get some experience with existing family cars before
going to the dealers. Thanks for the Autotrader heads up. We haven't
bought from a dealer since 2009!
One other useful place is Turo:
https://turo.com/gb/en

It's kind of like a peer to peer car hire, where you can hire somebody's
specific car for a few days. I'm going to use it when I want to do a long
term test drive of something, as I can hire it for a few days to see whether
I like it before hitting up dealers (or classifieds), which you don't get on
a half hour test drive. Also gives an opportunity to test range and
charging. The downside is that you usually need to pick up from where the
owner lives and most of them are based around London, and it's pot luck what
vehicles are on there.

Theo
charles
2025-02-15 11:15:02 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by Timatmarford
Following the interest in the EV thread I thought it timely to ask for
comment on replacing my wife's 2009 60k miles diesel Fiesta. About
2000m/year of local trips so the MOT smoke test a burden. (overcome so
far by a preceding long motorway trip!)
For several years, we have talked about changing to a new, battery, 4
seater vehicle. Range 150 miles would do.
Neither of us (80 just and 81) have ever driven one! From the passenger
seat, the complexity of the electronic display gadgetry is
incomprehensible! One of us is still struggling to operate her new TV!
I bought my EV at the age (my age) of 81. My previous diesel had been an
automatic, so there was very little difference in driving. I think the
biggest difference was that it had rear wheel drive. For 30 years (about)
everything had been front wheel drive, but after 3+ years. I don't have a
problem. I doubt if the complex displays have anything to do with it being
an EV. The only 'EV thing' is about charging. Everything else is to do with
the road and the car.

I bought a Skoda Enyaq because it could carry my harp flat (with the back
seats folded down), but there are plenty of others if you don't need that
facilty.
Quite frequently (every other weekend) I happily do a 100+ mile return trip
and on an annual basis I do a 450 mile trip (Surrey to Edinburgh). I've
once gone as far north as Aberdeen. Journeys need planning, but nowadays, I
wouldn't drive for more than 3 hours without a break. Loo & then coffee
stop while the car is recharging and off I go again. Just before I bought
the EV, I decided that the Edinburgh journey was too much for one day -
even thought I'd been doing it for nearly 60 years. Perhaps I'm beginning
to feel my age?
--
from KT24 in Surrey, England - sent from my RISC OS 4té˛
"I'd rather die of exhaustion than die of boredom" Thomas Carlyle
Jeff Gaines
2025-02-15 12:27:24 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by charles
I bought a Skoda Enyaq because it could carry my harp flat (with the back
seats folded down), but there are plenty of others if you don't need that
facilty.
Do you carry your harp in case St. Peter calls while you are out and about
:-)
--
Jeff Gaines Dorset UK
If you ever find something you like buy a lifetime supply because they
will stop making it
SH
2025-02-15 14:09:47 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by Jeff Gaines
Post by charles
I bought a Skoda Enyaq because it could carry my harp flat (with the back
seats folded down), but there are plenty of others if you don't need that
facilty.
Do you carry your harp in case St. Peter calls while you are out and
about :-)
Stop harping on Jeff! :-)
charles
2025-02-15 14:30:03 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by Jeff Gaines
Post by charles
I bought a Skoda Enyaq because it could carry my harp flat (with the
back seats folded down), but there are plenty of others if you don't
need that facilty.
Do you carry your harp in case St. Peter calls while you are out and about
:-)
Indeed, I do. And, I have an ancestor whose life is commemorated in a
window in St Patrick's Cathedral, Dublin. In the pictures, the angels are
all playing harps, too.
--
from KT24 in Surrey, England - sent from my RISC OS 4té˛
"I'd rather die of exhaustion than die of boredom" Thomas Carlyle
Timatmarford
2025-02-15 16:17:10 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by charles
Post by Timatmarford
Following the interest in the EV thread I thought it timely to ask for
comment on replacing my wife's 2009 60k miles diesel Fiesta. About
2000m/year of local trips so the MOT smoke test a burden. (overcome so
far by a preceding long motorway trip!)
For several years, we have talked about changing to a new, battery, 4
seater vehicle. Range 150 miles would do.
Neither of us (80 just and 81) have ever driven one! From the passenger
seat, the complexity of the electronic display gadgetry is
incomprehensible! One of us is still struggling to operate her new TV!
I bought my EV at the age (my age) of 81. My previous diesel had been an
automatic, so there was very little difference in driving. I think the
biggest difference was that it had rear wheel drive. For 30 years (about)
everything had been front wheel drive, but after 3+ years. I don't have a
problem. I doubt if the complex displays have anything to do with it being
an EV. The only 'EV thing' is about charging. Everything else is to do with
the road and the car.
I bought a Skoda Enyaq because it could carry my harp flat (with the back
seats folded down), but there are plenty of others if you don't need that
facilty.
Quite frequently (every other weekend) I happily do a 100+ mile return trip
and on an annual basis I do a 450 mile trip (Surrey to Edinburgh). I've
once gone as far north as Aberdeen. Journeys need planning, but nowadays, I
wouldn't drive for more than 3 hours without a break. Loo & then coffee
stop while the car is recharging and off I go again. Just before I bought
the EV, I decided that the Edinburgh journey was too much for one day -
even thought I'd been doing it for nearly 60 years. Perhaps I'm beginning
to feel my age?
That's reassuring Charles. I'll try to keep the Passat on the road for
my use. Don't tell anyone but it still has the VW test cheat circuitry
fitted:-)
Paul
2025-02-15 12:01:40 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Following the interest in the EV thread I thought it timely to ask for comment on replacing my wife's 2009 60k miles diesel Fiesta.  About 2000m/year of local trips so the MOT smoke test a burden. (overcome so far by a preceding long motorway trip!)
For several years, we have talked about changing to a new, battery, 4 seater vehicle. Range 150 miles would do.
Neither of us (80 just and 81) have ever driven one! From the passenger seat, the complexity of the electronic display gadgetry is incomprehensible! One of us is still struggling to operate her new TV!
There's a lot to know about BEVs.

You can easily make a selection mistake.

As an example, the *towing* instructions for the car are important.
Say that the towing requires the nose wheels to be lifted off the
ground, before the tow moves it. You will be backing into your drive,
so that the nose faces outwards if/when you need a tow. Maybe when you
go drinking downtown, you will be keeping the towing details handy
in your mind, when selecting a parking spot location.

The car has a top speed. Check it. Make sure it is sufficient
to perform a pass on a major highway. It's not that you *like*
to pass, but some driving situations require evasive action
that requires a performant vehicle. If my road here is 100km/hr,
then I want a 140km/hr car, to perform a normal pass. Perhaps
I'm passing a broken transport. Some BEVs are a bit dangerous
in this regard. The final gear ratio, helps determine top speed.
If the car line has "SE, GT, Sport" vehicles, each one has
a different final gear ratio and a different top speed. You
can't ask about the GT, and *assume* the same characteristic
for the other SKUs. Also of note, there is no rule of thumb
about the top speed either. A vehicle could look like a
burnout king, and when you check, the "top speed" happens
to be awful. The numbers are seeming selected at random.

Loading Image...

Someone who owns a BEV, would be a better source of info. I watched
a comedy one day, involving a punter who had driven a BEV onto
a median, and a tow truck driver (who did not know the model
details) seemed to be damaging the vehicle while towing it off
the median. You the vehicle owner, need your towing details
handy, to avoid such comedy situations. That's the only reason
I mention it, I've seen this comedy before.

Paul
Timatmarford
2025-02-15 17:27:19 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by Paul
Following the interest in the EV thread I thought it timely to ask for comment on replacing my wife's 2009 60k miles diesel Fiesta.  About 2000m/year of local trips so the MOT smoke test a burden. (overcome so far by a preceding long motorway trip!)
For several years, we have talked about changing to a new, battery, 4 seater vehicle. Range 150 miles would do.
Neither of us (80 just and 81) have ever driven one! From the passenger seat, the complexity of the electronic display gadgetry is incomprehensible! One of us is still struggling to operate her new TV!
There's a lot to know about BEVs.
You can easily make a selection mistake.
OK Paul. Good point about towability. As a farmer, I am in a position to
pick one up on a pallet:-)

UK highways have a raft of speed restrictions including a limit for most
lorries of 60mph on dual carriageway. Locally, traffic density is such
that getting in front confers no benefit unless it was a horse and trap:-(
SteveW
2025-02-15 20:58:16 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by Timatmarford
Post by Paul
Post by Timatmarford
Following the interest in the EV thread I thought it timely to ask
for comment on replacing my wife's 2009 60k miles diesel Fiesta.
About 2000m/year of local trips so the MOT smoke test a burden.
(overcome so far by a preceding long motorway trip!)
For several years, we have talked about changing to a new, battery, 4
seater vehicle. Range 150 miles would do.
Neither of us (80 just and 81) have ever driven one! From the
passenger seat, the complexity of the electronic display gadgetry is
incomprehensible! One of us is still struggling to operate her new TV!
There's a lot to know about BEVs.
You can easily make a selection mistake.
OK Paul. Good point about towability. As a farmer, I am in a position to
pick one up on a pallet:-)
While many specify towing with the driven wheels off the ground, they
usually state that they can be towed a short distance to a safe location
without.
Post by Timatmarford
UK highways have a raft of speed restrictions including a limit for most
lorries of 60mph on dual carriageway. Locally, traffic density is such
that getting in front confers no benefit unless it was a horse and trap:-(
Lots seem to be limited to 99mph - which is more than sufficient unless
you are driving on German autobahns.
Andrew
2025-02-16 19:09:55 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by SteveW
Post by Timatmarford
Post by Paul
Post by Timatmarford
Following the interest in the EV thread I thought it timely to ask
for comment on replacing my wife's 2009 60k miles diesel Fiesta.
About 2000m/year of local trips so the MOT smoke test a burden.
(overcome so far by a preceding long motorway trip!)
For several years, we have talked about changing to a new, battery,
4 seater vehicle. Range 150 miles would do.
Neither of us (80 just and 81) have ever driven one! From the
passenger seat, the complexity of the electronic display gadgetry is
incomprehensible! One of us is still struggling to operate her new TV!
There's a lot to know about BEVs.
You can easily make a selection mistake.
OK Paul. Good point about towability. As a farmer, I am in a position
to pick one up on a pallet:-)
While many specify towing with the driven wheels off the ground, they
usually state that they can be towed a short distance to a safe location
without.
Post by Timatmarford
UK highways have a raft of speed restrictions including a limit for
most lorries of 60mph on dual carriageway. Locally, traffic density is
such that getting in front confers no benefit unless it was a horse
and trap:-(
Lots seem to be limited to 99mph - which is more than sufficient unless
you are driving on German autobahns.
Or stupidly excessive to any normal person.
Tim Streater
2025-02-15 14:08:36 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by Timatmarford
Following the interest in the EV thread I thought it timely to ask for
comment on replacing my wife's 2009 60k miles diesel Fiesta. About
2000m/year of local trips so the MOT smoke test a burden. (overcome so
far by a preceding long motorway trip!)
For several years, we have talked about changing to a new, battery, 4
seater vehicle. Range 150 miles would do.
Neither of us (80 just and 81) have ever driven one! From the passenger
seat, the complexity of the electronic display gadgetry is
incomprehensible! One of us is still struggling to operate her new TV!
Make sure you avoid anything that does not have manual heater controls. That
is, avoid any manufacturer's attempt to put the heating controls on a touch
screen, which would require a solo driver to take their eyes off the road to
do anything with it.
--
Anyone who slaps a 'this page is best viewed with Browser X' label on a Web page appears to be yearning for the bad old days, before the Web, when you had very little chance of reading a document written on another computer, another word processor, or another network.

-- Tim Berners-Lee
Timatmarford
2025-02-15 16:25:22 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by Tim Streater
Post by Timatmarford
Following the interest in the EV thread I thought it timely to ask for
comment on replacing my wife's 2009 60k miles diesel Fiesta. About
2000m/year of local trips so the MOT smoke test a burden. (overcome so
far by a preceding long motorway trip!)
For several years, we have talked about changing to a new, battery, 4
seater vehicle. Range 150 miles would do.
Neither of us (80 just and 81) have ever driven one! From the passenger
seat, the complexity of the electronic display gadgetry is
incomprehensible! One of us is still struggling to operate her new TV!
Make sure you avoid anything that does not have manual heater controls. That
is, avoid any manufacturer's attempt to put the heating controls on a touch
screen, which would require a solo driver to take their eyes off the road to
do anything with it.
Hah. Good point. I whinge about the things my Passat won't let me do
while in motion but I can fiddle with the heater settings:-)
alan_m
2025-02-15 15:54:47 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by Timatmarford
Following the interest in the EV thread I thought it timely to ask for
comment on replacing my wife's 2009 60k miles diesel Fiesta.  About
2000m/year of local trips so the MOT smoke test a burden. (overcome so
far by a preceding long motorway trip!)
For several years, we have talked about changing to a new, battery, 4
seater vehicle. Range 150 miles would do.
Neither of us (80 just and 81) have ever driven one! From the passenger
seat, the complexity of the electronic display gadgetry is
incomprehensible! One of us is still struggling to operate her new TV!
The complexity of the inbuilt electronics is probably much the same
irrespective of the type of car you buy, petrol, diesel or EV. How much
you interact with it is up to you.

There will still be an easily readable speedo and a fuel gauge (electric
charge gauge).

Wipers and indicators will still be on steering wheel stalks but things
like the wipers may be more controllable with variable speed
intermittent wipes but you could just leave the controls in a default state.

Things like internal heating controls and the inbuilt radio may have to
be operated from an central tough screen

Before buying it may be worth downloading the user manual from the
internet and just going through it to familiarise yourself with all the
functionality and remember just because its there it doesn't mean that
you have to use it. For instance if you don't use hands free phoning in
the car than you don't have to pair your mobile phone with the car.

There may also be a Youtube video showing the functionality of all the
electronic bells and whistles fitted to the car you are considering buying.
--
mailto : news {at} admac {dot} myzen {dot} co {dot} uk
Timatmarford
2025-02-15 16:42:07 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by alan_m
Post by Timatmarford
Following the interest in the EV thread I thought it timely to ask for
comment on replacing my wife's 2009 60k miles diesel Fiesta.  About
2000m/year of local trips so the MOT smoke test a burden. (overcome so
far by a preceding long motorway trip!)
For several years, we have talked about changing to a new, battery, 4
seater vehicle. Range 150 miles would do.
Neither of us (80 just and 81) have ever driven one! From the
passenger seat, the complexity of the electronic display gadgetry is
incomprehensible! One of us is still struggling to operate her new TV!
The complexity of the inbuilt electronics is probably much the same
irrespective of the type of car you buy, petrol, diesel or EV. How much
you interact with it is up to you.
There will still be an easily readable speedo and a fuel gauge (electric
charge gauge).
Wipers and indicators will still be on steering wheel stalks but things
like the wipers may be more controllable with variable speed
intermittent wipes but you could just leave the controls in a default state.
Things like internal heating controls and the inbuilt radio may have to
be operated from an central tough screen
Before buying it may be worth downloading the user manual from the
internet and just going through it to familiarise yourself with all the
functionality and remember just because its there it doesn't mean that
you have to use it. For instance if you don't use hands free phoning in
the car than you don't have to pair your mobile phone with the car.
There may also be a Youtube video showing the functionality of all the
electronic bells and whistles fitted to the car you are considering buying.
Hmm. The last user manual I tried to download (New TV) was 250 pages! My
Passat, now 12 years old, has unused mobile phone pairing.

I take your points about electronic gismos. My daughter drives a Tesla
so probably not the simplest.
alan_m
2025-02-15 18:41:22 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by Timatmarford
Hmm. The last user manual I tried to download (New TV) was 250 pages!
Probably o0ne manual in 20 different languages :(
Post by Timatmarford
I take your points about electronic gismos. My daughter drives a Tesla
so probably not the simplest.
One criticism I seen about some of the Tesla models is even the speedo
is only on the central touch panel display and it's more than just a
glance to read it.
--
mailto : news {at} admac {dot} myzen {dot} co {dot} uk
Andy Burns
2025-02-15 19:01:01 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by alan_m
One criticism I seen about some of the Tesla models is even the speedo
is only on the central touch panel display and it's more than just a
glance to read it.
Other weird Tesla user interface decisions ... No dashboard screen in
front of driver, it's central in the car. No indicator, headlight or
wiper stalks, just buttons on the steering wheel. Nothing resembling a
gear lever for P/R/N/D just some weird swipy thing on the screen or
buttons above the rear view mirror
nib
2025-02-15 19:36:56 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by Andy Burns
Post by alan_m
One criticism I seen about some of the Tesla models is even the speedo
is only on the central touch panel display and it's more than just a
glance to read it.
Other weird Tesla user interface decisions ... No dashboard screen in
front of driver, it's central in the  car.  No indicator, headlight or
wiper stalks, just buttons on the steering wheel.  Nothing resembling a
gear lever for P/R/N/D just some weird swipy thing on the screen or
buttons above the rear view mirror
The "gear lever" seems to be going walkabout in its new freedom. Mine
has a switch like a mini gear lever in the right place, but others seem
to have gone for another stalk, like a 1960s column change, a big knob
stuck to the top right of the instrument cluster (BMw i3?), or buttons
on the dashboard.

nib
Andrew
2025-02-16 19:12:18 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by alan_m
Post by Timatmarford
Hmm. The last user manual I tried to download (New TV) was 250 pages!
Probably o0ne manual in 20 different languages :(
Post by Timatmarford
I take your points about electronic gismos. My daughter drives a Tesla
so probably not the simplest.
One criticism I seen about some of the Tesla models is even the speedo
is only on the central touch panel display and it's more than just a
glance to read it.
Like original mini's then :-)
SteveW
2025-02-15 21:00:25 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by alan_m
Post by Timatmarford
Following the interest in the EV thread I thought it timely to ask for
comment on replacing my wife's 2009 60k miles diesel Fiesta.  About
2000m/year of local trips so the MOT smoke test a burden. (overcome so
far by a preceding long motorway trip!)
For several years, we have talked about changing to a new, battery, 4
seater vehicle. Range 150 miles would do.
Neither of us (80 just and 81) have ever driven one! From the
passenger seat, the complexity of the electronic display gadgetry is
incomprehensible! One of us is still struggling to operate her new TV!
The complexity of the inbuilt electronics is probably much the same
irrespective of the type of car you buy, petrol, diesel or EV. How much
you interact with it is up to you.
There will still be an easily readable speedo and a fuel gauge (electric
charge gauge).
Wipers and indicators will still be on steering wheel stalks but things
like the wipers may be more controllable with variable speed
intermittent wipes but you could just leave the controls in a default state.
Things like internal heating controls and the inbuilt radio may have to
be operated from an central tough screen
Far too many controls, in most cars, are touch screen - however almost
all have stalk buttons for controlling the radio.
Tim Streater
2025-02-15 21:10:50 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by alan_m
Things like internal heating controls and the inbuilt radio may have to
be operated from an central touch screen
Radio maybe but other wise - AVOID!
--
When I saw how the European Union was developing, it was very obvious what they had in mind was not democratic. In Britain you vote for a government so the government has to listen to you, and if you don't like it you can change it.

Tony Benn
alan_m
2025-02-16 08:35:00 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by Tim Streater
Post by alan_m
Things like internal heating controls and the inbuilt radio may have to
be operated from an central touch screen
Radio maybe but other wise - AVOID!
It's getting harder to avoid touch screen controls for many functions on
new cars.

My current car has got a mix of touch screen, knobs, steering wheel and
stalk controls (as well as speech recognition) and the technology and
functionality seems well designed.

I have driven other cars where the ergonomics have been very poor, such
as having to go down two menu levels on a central touch screen display
to blow hot air at the screen and then the fan having a delay of 5
seconds before it turns on. Too much time taking one's eyes of the road
for a simple function, and then checking again when something doesn't
happen to check that the correct thing has been selected.
--
mailto : news {at} admac {dot} myzen {dot} co {dot} uk
Jeff Layman
2025-02-16 10:38:04 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by alan_m
Post by Tim Streater
Post by alan_m
Things like internal heating controls and the inbuilt radio may have to
be operated from an central touch screen
Radio maybe but other wise - AVOID!
It's getting harder to avoid touch screen controls for many functions on
new cars.
There's little - if any - mention in this thread of voice control, which
is available on most new cars. This is a rather old review from this
time last year:
<https://www.autotrader.co.uk/content/advice/in-car-voice-assistants-how-do-they-work-and-which-ones-are-best?refresh=true>

An internet search of "voice control" and "EV" will yield many hits
specific to makes and models if more information is required.
--
Jeff
Tim Streater
2025-02-16 12:28:59 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by Jeff Layman
There's little - if any - mention in this thread of voice control, which
is available on most new cars.
Not something I have any interest in using. Any more than I do at home. It
might suit gabby people, I suppose.
--
"A committee is a cul-de-sac down which ideas are lured and then quietly strangled." - Sir Barnett Cocks (1907-1989)
Jeff Layman
2025-02-16 13:11:45 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by Tim Streater
Post by Jeff Layman
There's little - if any - mention in this thread of voice control, which
is available on most new cars.
Not something I have any interest in using. Any more than I do at home. It
might suit gabby people, I suppose.
I don't use it at home either, but having recently driven an EV courtesy
car where most functions were touch-screen (even heating/ventilation) I
can see the advantage of voice control. So, for example, rather than
looking away to where the touch areas were, and trying to change the
airflow direction and temperature, it would be easier and safer to say
"heating up screen" - or whatever words would be required.
--
Jeff
Tim Streater
2025-02-16 13:15:34 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by Jeff Layman
I don't use it at home either, but having recently driven an EV courtesy
car where most functions were touch-screen (even heating/ventilation) I
We should avoid purchasing such vehicles, and complain loudly when anyone
attempts to foist such upon us (as in your courtesy car). That way the message
might get back to the designers.

No good saying "heating up" to the car if, in effect, its response is "up
yours too, chum".
--
Tim
alan_m
2025-02-16 15:42:03 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by Tim Streater
Post by Jeff Layman
I don't use it at home either, but having recently driven an EV courtesy
car where most functions were touch-screen (even heating/ventilation) I
We should avoid purchasing such vehicles, and complain loudly when anyone
attempts to foist such upon us (as in your courtesy car). That way the message
might get back to the designers.
No good saying "heating up" to the car if, in effect, its response is "up
yours too, chum".
Speak for yourself
Voice command in a car can be a safety feature and can stop taking your
eyes off the road to fiddle with controls.

Even if car is equipped with voice commands you don't have to use it.
--
mailto : news {at} admac {dot} myzen {dot} co {dot} uk
alan_m
2025-02-16 15:39:04 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by Jeff Layman
Post by Tim Streater
Post by Jeff Layman
There's little - if any - mention in this thread of voice control, which
is available on most new cars.
Not something I have any interest in using. Any more than I do at home. It
might suit gabby people, I suppose.
I don't use it at home either, but having recently driven an EV courtesy
car where most functions were touch-screen (even heating/ventilation) I
can see the advantage of voice control. So, for example, rather than
looking away to where the touch areas were, and trying to change the
airflow direction and temperature, it would be easier and safer to say
"heating up screen" - or whatever words would be required.
A list of Ford Sync3 voice commands
Sync 3 is the car software supported on the touch screen.


<https://www.ford.co.uk/content/dam/guxeu/uk/documents/home/owners/resources-support/sync-bluetooth/SYNC_3_voice_commands.pdf>

or

https://tinyurl.com/2h2vrf57


Some I never use and others I use quite often. The commands are preset
and short. For instance if I want the DAB radio on, rather than my own
play list from a USB stick, I press the speech button on the steering
wheel and just say "DAB". The steering wheel also has left, right, up
and down buttons where the former two changes radio channel and the
latter two the radio volume.
--
mailto : news {at} admac {dot} myzen {dot} co {dot} uk
Andrew
2025-02-16 19:16:26 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by Jeff Layman
Post by Tim Streater
Post by Jeff Layman
There's little - if any - mention in this thread of voice control, which
is available on most new cars.
Not something I have any interest in using. Any more than I do at home. It
might suit gabby people, I suppose.
I don't use it at home either, but having recently driven an EV courtesy
car where most functions were touch-screen (even heating/ventilation) I
can see the advantage of voice control. So, for example, rather than
looking away to where the touch areas were, and trying to change the
airflow direction and temperature, it would be easier and safer to say
"heating up screen" - or whatever words would be required.
If you said "heating up skirt", would it call the police
automatically ?.
Adrian
2025-02-16 12:58:02 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by Jeff Layman
There's little - if any - mention in this thread of voice control,
which is available on most new cars. This is a rather old review from
<https://www.autotrader.co.uk/content/advice/in-car-voice-assistants-how
-do-they-work-and-which-ones-are-best?refresh=true>
Not specific to EVs but voice control is (IMHO) a bit of a curate's egg.
I've got it on my jalopy, and it probably has a 50% success rate in
doing what I want it to do. The other 50% it either fails to do
anything, or does something completely different to what I want.

Adrian
--
To Reply :
replace "diy" with "news" and reverse the domain

If you are reading this from a web interface eg DIY Banter,
DIY Forum or Google Groups, please be aware this is NOT a forum, and
you are merely using a web portal to a USENET group. Many people block
posters coming from web portals due to perceieved SPAM or inaneness.
For a better method of access, please see:

http://wiki.diyfaq.org.uk/index.php?title=Usenet
Fredxx
2025-02-16 11:50:42 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by Timatmarford
Following the interest in the EV thread I thought it timely to ask for
comment on replacing my wife's 2009 60k miles diesel Fiesta.  About
2000m/year of local trips so the MOT smoke test a burden. (overcome so
far by a preceding long motorway trip!)
Perhaps some injector cleaner might help? Personally if it's not broke ....
Post by Timatmarford
For several years, we have talked about changing to a new, battery, 4
seater vehicle. Range 150 miles would do.
Neither of us (80 just and 81) have ever driven one! From the passenger
seat, the complexity of the electronic display gadgetry is
incomprehensible! One of us is still struggling to operate her new TV!
How many miles do you do for your average journey? Would a plug in
hybrid cover most without running the engine?
Timatmarford
2025-02-16 12:45:53 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by Fredxx
Post by Timatmarford
Following the interest in the EV thread I thought it timely to ask for
comment on replacing my wife's 2009 60k miles diesel Fiesta.  About
2000m/year of local trips so the MOT smoke test a burden. (overcome so
far by a preceding long motorway trip!)
Perhaps some injector cleaner might help? Personally if it's not broke ....
Perhaps. When first purchased, the Fiesta would do a *filter clean burn*
at unexpected times. This function seems to have died quietly. A longish
motorway run seems to do the same trick.
I have replaced the injectors on the Passat (same basic engine) and
arrange a similar pre-MOT run. So far so good:-)
Post by Fredxx
Post by Timatmarford
For several years, we have talked about changing to a new, battery, 4
seater vehicle. Range 150 miles would do.
Neither of us (80 just and 81) have ever driven one! From the
passenger seat, the complexity of the electronic display gadgetry is
incomprehensible! One of us is still struggling to operate her new TV!
How many miles do you do for your average journey? Would a plug in
hybrid cover most without running the engine?
Probably. Why is that going to be better than fully electric come
servicing/MOT time?
nib
2025-02-16 13:19:56 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by Timatmarford
Post by Fredxx
Post by Timatmarford
Following the interest in the EV thread I thought it timely to ask
for comment on replacing my wife's 2009 60k miles diesel Fiesta.
About 2000m/year of local trips so the MOT smoke test a burden.
(overcome so far by a preceding long motorway trip!)
Perhaps some injector cleaner might help? Personally if it's not broke ....
Perhaps. When first purchased, the Fiesta would do a *filter clean burn*
at unexpected times. This function seems to have died quietly. A longish
motorway run seems to do the same trick.
I have replaced the injectors on the Passat (same basic engine) and
arrange a similar pre-MOT run. So far so good:-)
Post by Fredxx
Post by Timatmarford
For several years, we have talked about changing to a new, battery, 4
seater vehicle. Range 150 miles would do.
Neither of us (80 just and 81) have ever driven one! From the
passenger seat, the complexity of the electronic display gadgetry is
incomprehensible! One of us is still struggling to operate her new TV!
How many miles do you do for your average journey? Would a plug in
hybrid cover most without running the engine?
Probably. Why is that going to be better than fully electric come
servicing/MOT time?
I think if your car only ever does short trips, electric is a much
better fit than anything with an engine. No problem with lots of short
runs and cold starts not being ideal for an engine, perhaps especially
diesel. The heater works immediately.

PHEVs are a compromise. If you do most of your trips on electric it
complains at you (or ours does!) that the fuel is getting old and the
engine needs a run, you end up taking it out for a good run just to keep
it happy. The electric range is not usually very much, then it starts
the engine and insists on running it until it warms up even if it is not
needed. On ours, you get less than half the power in full electric mode,
which is mostly good enough (70 HP v 160 HP) but not always. They can be
fun if the use case fits but they are not really good as a pure EV.

nib
Andrew
2025-02-16 19:21:10 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by nib
Post by Timatmarford
Post by Fredxx
Post by Timatmarford
Following the interest in the EV thread I thought it timely to ask
for comment on replacing my wife's 2009 60k miles diesel Fiesta.
About 2000m/year of local trips so the MOT smoke test a burden.
(overcome so far by a preceding long motorway trip!)
Perhaps some injector cleaner might help? Personally if it's not broke ....
Perhaps. When first purchased, the Fiesta would do a *filter clean
burn* at unexpected times. This function seems to have died quietly. A
longish motorway run seems to do the same trick.
I have replaced the injectors on the Passat (same basic engine) and
arrange a similar pre-MOT run. So far so good:-)
Post by Fredxx
Post by Timatmarford
For several years, we have talked about changing to a new, battery,
4 seater vehicle. Range 150 miles would do.
Neither of us (80 just and 81) have ever driven one! From the
passenger seat, the complexity of the electronic display gadgetry is
incomprehensible! One of us is still struggling to operate her new TV!
How many miles do you do for your average journey? Would a plug in
hybrid cover most without running the engine?
Probably. Why is that going to be better than fully electric come
servicing/MOT time?
I think if your car only ever does short trips, electric is a much
better fit than anything with an engine. No problem with lots of short
runs and cold starts not being ideal for an engine, perhaps especially
diesel. The heater works immediately.
PHEVs are a compromise. If you do most of your trips on electric it
complains at you (or ours does!) that the fuel is getting old and the
engine needs a run, you end up taking it out for a good run just to keep
it happy. The electric range is not usually very much, then it starts
the engine and insists on running it until it warms up even if it is not
needed. On ours, you get less than half the power in full electric mode,
which is mostly good enough (70 HP v 160 HP) but not always. They can be
fun if the use case fits but they are not really good as a pure EV.
nib
If you have a daily commute of 30+ miles each way and the final few
miles are in heavy traffic then the power loss is pretty well
irrelevant

mm0fmf
2025-02-16 15:09:38 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by Timatmarford
Following the interest in the EV thread I thought it timely to ask for
comment on replacing my wife's 2009 60k miles diesel Fiesta.  About
2000m/year of local trips so the MOT smoke test a burden. (overcome so
far by a preceding long motorway trip!)
For several years, we have talked about changing to a new, battery, 4
seater vehicle. Range 150 miles would do.
Neither of us (80 just and 81) have ever driven one! From the passenger
seat, the complexity of the electronic display gadgetry is
incomprehensible! One of us is still struggling to operate her new TV!
Shit if I live to your age Tim and can still drive I wouldn't be wanting
to waste my money on a Johnny-cab. Go out in style a buy some
fire-breathing V12 monster and live a lot.
Timatmarford
2025-02-16 15:59:58 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by mm0fmf
Post by Timatmarford
Following the interest in the EV thread I thought it timely to ask for
comment on replacing my wife's 2009 60k miles diesel Fiesta.  About
2000m/year of local trips so the MOT smoke test a burden. (overcome so
far by a preceding long motorway trip!)
For several years, we have talked about changing to a new, battery, 4
seater vehicle. Range 150 miles would do.
Neither of us (80 just and 81) have ever driven one! From the
passenger seat, the complexity of the electronic display gadgetry is
incomprehensible! One of us is still struggling to operate her new TV!
Shit if I live to your age Tim and can still drive I wouldn't be wanting
to waste my money on a Johnny-cab. Go out in style a buy some fire-
breathing V12 monster and live a lot.
Hah! Just watching one of my neighbours park his £80k Maserati 2 seater.
I drove a series 2 Morgan for nearly 20 years so rather think I have had
my fun!

An electric shopping trolley will be for my wife to use but I am hoping
to build in some family use for when the Passat dies.
mm0fmf
2025-02-16 17:12:38 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by Timatmarford
Post by mm0fmf
Post by Timatmarford
Following the interest in the EV thread I thought it timely to ask
for comment on replacing my wife's 2009 60k miles diesel Fiesta.
About 2000m/year of local trips so the MOT smoke test a burden.
(overcome so far by a preceding long motorway trip!)
For several years, we have talked about changing to a new, battery, 4
seater vehicle. Range 150 miles would do.
Neither of us (80 just and 81) have ever driven one! From the
passenger seat, the complexity of the electronic display gadgetry is
incomprehensible! One of us is still struggling to operate her new TV!
Shit if I live to your age Tim and can still drive I wouldn't be
wanting to waste my money on a Johnny-cab. Go out in style a buy some
fire- breathing V12 monster and live a lot.
Hah! Just watching one of my neighbours park his £80k Maserati 2 seater.
I drove a series 2 Morgan for nearly 20 years so rather think I have had
my fun!
An electric shopping trolley will be for my wife to use but I am hoping
to build in some family use for when the Passat dies.
Fair enough on the series 2 :-)

I knew someone who was in a classic car club, there were 4 of them and
they bought classics between them so you got to drive a different one
each month. He had a 1970 Bentley T and an early Bentley Mulsanne Turbo
which were his daily drivers. I don't the fuel costs were an issue at
all. The club owned a Jaguar XJ12C, a Porsche 911 2.4 and a 246 Dino. He
told me once when they bought a Morgan Plus 8 that had been breathed on.
His words were "The noise is fabulous as are the smells. There's wood
and leather and hot exhaust and oil. Oh and a strong smell of soiled
pants because it's so damn quick and scary!"
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