FIRE DOORS - FD20

[Kate Chacksfield]

Can anyone advise me on the definition of FD20 fire doors? Our council asked
us to ensure all our existing doors were FD20 doors when we submitted an
application to convert our loft into bedrooms.

We believe we have them - solid Victorian doors with (newly fitted) self
closers. Friends in our street who converted their lofts before us have the
same type of door, and the council was happy with them.

But because we managed to squeeze 3 bedrooms up therethe Building Control
Officers suddenly insisted we replace all our existing doors because they
can't be sure they'll last for 20 mins in a fire. Yet these are the same
type of door that were fine for our friends' lofts...

How can you show a Victorian door is FD20 equivalent? Can the council refuse
us a Completion Certificate given all they initally asked for was FD20s,
which we believe we have?

Not the most rivetting topic, but any help appreciated. Thanks.

[R obbo]

Post by Kate Chacksfield
Can anyone advise me on the definition of FD20 fire doors? Our council asked
us to ensure all our existing doors were FD20 doors when we submitted an
application to convert our loft into bedrooms.
We believe we have them - solid Victorian doors with (newly fitted) self
closers. Friends in our street who converted their lofts before us have the
same type of door, and the council was happy with them.
But because we managed to squeeze 3 bedrooms up therethe Building Control
Officers suddenly insisted we replace all our existing doors because they
can't be sure they'll last for 20 mins in a fire. Yet these are the same
type of door that were fine for our friends' lofts...
How can you show a Victorian door is FD20 equivalent? Can the council refuse
us a Completion Certificate given all they initally asked for was FD20s,
which we believe we have?
Not the most rivetting topic, but any help appreciated. Thanks.

http://www.doorwarehouse.co.uk/doors-interior-fire.php

Google is your friend

[Christian McArdle]

Post by Kate Chacksfield
But because we managed to squeeze 3 bedrooms up therethe Building Control
Officers suddenly insisted we replace all our existing doors because they
can't be sure they'll last for 20 mins in a fire. Yet these are the same
type of door that were fine for our friends' lofts...

There are special rules that don't require you to change your doors after
some loft conversions. However, the rules are conditional on various things
(i.e. provision of an escape window, limited number of rooms). Your
conversion does not come under these conditions, so you will need to change
your doors for fire doors. It is very unlikely that they will accept an
uncertificated Victorian panel door.

Your friends' doors are probably not FD20, nor would they need to be.

Christian.

[Christian McArdle]

Further to this. Approved Document B:

The special rules for loft conversions apply if:

----

2.17 In the case of an existing two storey house
to which a storey is to be added by converting
the existing roof space into habitable rooms, the
following provisions 2.18-2.25 can be applied as
an alternative to those in paragraph 2.13.
However, these alternative provisions are not
suitable if:
a. the new second storey exceeds 50m2 in floor
area; or
b. the new second storey is to contain more than
two habitable rooms.

----

As you have 3 habitable rooms, you don't get the special treatment. Had you
been able to apply the above conditions, you get a special exemption for
doorways:

----

Doorways
2.19 Every doorway within the enclosure to the
existing stair should be fitted with a door which,
in the case of doors to habitable rooms, should
be fitted with a self-closing device.
Note: Rising butt hinges are adequate as selfclosing
devices (see Note to paragraph 2.13).
Any new door to a habitable room should be a fire
door. Existing doors need only be fitted with selfclosing
devices. Existing glazed doors may need
to have the glazing changed, see paragraph 2.20.

---

Without the loft conversion exemption you have a choice of two methods of
fire escape. You must either provide two proper escape routes (i.e. an
internal stairway and an external fire escape) or you must protect the main
stairway (much more common). The description of this method is:

----

a. The upper storeys (those above ground storey)
should be served by a protected stairway
which should either:
i. extend to a final exit, see Diagram 3(a), or
ii. give access to at least two escape routes
at ground level, each delivering to final
exits and separated from each other by
fire-resisting construction and self-closing
fire doors, see Diagram 3(b).

----

Note the requirement for self-closing fire doors. Although the wording is a
bit poor in that using method (i) it doesn't mention fire doors, the diagram
3(a) is very clear on the matter and specifically indicates that fire doors
must be used.

Christian.

[Peter Parry]

Post by Kate Chacksfield
How can you show a Victorian door is FD20 equivalent?

With difficulty - but have a look at
http://www.cfpltd.co.uk/timberdoors.html , this might solve your
problem.

Post by Kate Chacksfield
Can the council refuse
us a Completion Certificate given all they initally asked for was FD20s,
which we believe we have?

Yes - belief is a wonderful thing but no match for an obdurate
council official.

[John Rumm]

Post by Kate Chacksfield
But because we managed to squeeze 3 bedrooms up therethe Building Control

Does each bedroom have its own means of escape (window etc)?

Post by Kate Chacksfield
Officers suddenly insisted we replace all our existing doors because they
can't be sure they'll last for 20 mins in a fire. Yet these are the same
type of door that were fine for our friends' lofts...

The usual requirement is that the new doors in the loft need to be FD20
or better (most you buy are actually FD30), however those that open onto
the escape route in the rest of the house usaully only need to be made
self closing.

Post by Kate Chacksfield
How can you show a Victorian door is FD20 equivalent? Can the council refuse

You can't. FD20 implies they have been tested (not individually
obviously) to that standard. Ordinary doors may well pass the tests (but
equally they may not), but if the maker has never submitted (and paid
for) the testing they will not be certificated to the standard.

Post by Kate Chacksfield
us a Completion Certificate given all they initally asked for was FD20s,
which we believe we have?

They can refuse if they want. It may be worth enquiring why they want
FD20 doors in the rest of the house when in previous cases they have not
insisted on this.

Post by Kate Chacksfield
Not the most rivetting topic, but any help appreciated. Thanks.

Well worth investigating though, during a fire would not be the time to
find out there is something inadequate in the fire protection!
--
Cheers,

John.

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