Green elite - more ecobollox

[The Medway Handyman]

The University of West England is hosting a major conference on climate
change 'denial'.

"The idea that 'climate change denial' is a psychological disorder - the
product of a spiteful, wilful or simply in-built neural inability to face up
to the catastrophe of global warming - is becoming more and more popular
amongst green-leaning activists and academics. And nothing better sums up
the elitism and authoritarianism of the environmentalist lobby than its
psychologisation of dissent. The labelling of any criticism of the politics
of global warming, first as 'denial', and now as evidence of mass
psychological instability, is an attempt to write off all critics and
sceptics as deranged, and to lay the ground for inevitable authoritarian
solutions to the problem of climate change. Historically, only the most
illiberal and misanthropic regimes have treated disagreement and debate as
signs of mental ill-health. "

http://www.spiked-online.com/index.php?/site/earticle/6320/

Dave - The Medway Handyman
www.medwayhandyman.co.uk

[j***@jjdesigns.fsnet.co.uk]

Post by The Medway Handyman
The University of West England is hosting a major conference on climate
change 'denial'.
"The idea that 'climate change denial' is a psychological disorder - the
product of a spiteful, wilful or simply in-built neural inability to face up
to the catastrophe of global warming - is becoming more and more popular
amongst green-leaning activists and academics. And nothing better sums up
the elitism and authoritarianism of the environmentalist lobby than its
psychologisation of dissent. The labelling of any criticism of the politics
of global warming, first as 'denial', and now as evidence of mass
psychological instability, is an attempt to write off all critics and
sceptics as deranged, and to lay the ground for inevitable authoritarian
solutions to the problem of climate change. Historically, only the most
illiberal and misanthropic regimes have treated disagreement and debate as
signs of mental ill-health. "
http://www.spiked-online.com/index.php?/site/earticle/6320/
Dave - The Medway Handyman
www.medwayhandyman.co.uk

My mum would have said "they need their arses smacking" ;)

[The Medway Handyman]

Post by j***@jjdesigns.fsnet.co.uk

Post by The Medway Handyman
The University of West England is hosting a major conference on
climate change 'denial'.
"The idea that 'climate change denial' is a psychological disorder -
the product of a spiteful, wilful or simply in-built neural
inability to face up to the catastrophe of global warming - is
becoming more and more popular amongst green-leaning activists and
academics. And nothing better sums up the elitism and
authoritarianism of the environmentalist lobby than its
psychologisation of dissent. The labelling of any criticism of the
politics of global warming, first as 'denial', and now as evidence
of mass psychological instability, is an attempt to write off all
critics and sceptics as deranged, and to lay the ground for
inevitable authoritarian solutions to the problem of climate change.
Historically, only the most illiberal and misanthropic regimes have
treated disagreement and debate as signs of mental ill-health. "
http://www.spiked-online.com/index.php?/site/earticle/6320/
Dave - The Medway Handyman
www.medwayhandyman.co.uk

My mum would have said "they need their arses smacking" ;)

A very astute woman.

[m***@care2.com]

Post by The Medway Handyman
The University of West England is hosting a major conference on climate
change 'denial'.
"The idea that 'climate change denial' is a psychological disorder - the
product of a spiteful, wilful or simply in-built neural inability to face up
to the catastrophe of global warming - is becoming more and more popular
amongst green-leaning activists and academics. And nothing better sums up
the elitism and authoritarianism of the environmentalist lobby than its
psychologisation of dissent. The labelling of any criticism of the politics
of global warming, first as 'denial', and now as evidence of mass
psychological instability, is an attempt to write off all critics and
sceptics as deranged, and to lay the ground for inevitable authoritarian
solutions to the problem of climate change. Historically, only the most
illiberal and misanthropic regimes have treated disagreement and debate as
signs of mental ill-health. "
http://www.spiked-online.com/index.php?/site/earticle/6320/
Dave - The Medway Handyman
www.medwayhandyman.co.uk

Its the psychiatry game


NT

[OG]

Post by The Medway Handyman
The University of West England is hosting a major conference on climate
change 'denial'.
"The idea that 'climate change denial' is a psychological disorder - the
product of a spiteful, wilful or simply in-built neural inability to face
up to the catastrophe of global warming - is becoming more and more
popular amongst green-leaning activists and academics. And nothing better
sums up the elitism and authoritarianism of the environmentalist lobby
than its psychologisation of dissent. The labelling of any criticism of
the politics of global warming, first as 'denial', and now as evidence of
mass psychological instability, is an attempt to write off all critics and
sceptics as deranged, and to lay the ground for inevitable authoritarian
solutions to the problem of climate change. Historically, only the most
illiberal and misanthropic regimes have treated disagreement and debate as
signs of mental ill-health. "
http://www.spiked-online.com/index.php?/site/earticle/6320/
Dave - The Medway Handyman
www.medwayhandyman.co.uk

Your point being what exactly?

a few dozen members joining a facebook group (some of them satirically)
proves nothing.

[The Medway Handyman]

Post by OG

Post by The Medway Handyman
The University of West England is hosting a major conference on
climate change 'denial'.
"The idea that 'climate change denial' is a psychological disorder -
the product of a spiteful, wilful or simply in-built neural
inability to face up to the catastrophe of global warming - is
becoming more and more popular amongst green-leaning activists and
academics. And nothing better sums up the elitism and
authoritarianism of the environmentalist lobby than its
psychologisation of dissent. The labelling of any criticism of the
politics of global warming, first as 'denial', and now as evidence
of mass psychological instability, is an attempt to write off all
critics and sceptics as deranged, and to lay the ground for
inevitable authoritarian solutions to the problem of climate change.
Historically, only the most illiberal and misanthropic regimes have
treated disagreement and debate as signs of mental ill-health. "
http://www.spiked-online.com/index.php?/site/earticle/6320/
Dave - The Medway Handyman
www.medwayhandyman.co.uk

Your point being what exactly?

The point being that the greenies are so convinced of their beliefs that
they consider anyone who disagrees with them must be mentally unstable.

I would have thought that obvious if you had read the article FFS.

[dave]

On Sat, 07 Mar 2009 00:46:43 GMT, "The Medway Handyman"

Post by The Medway Handyman

Post by OG

Post by The Medway Handyman
The University of West England is hosting a major conference on
climate change 'denial'.
"The idea that 'climate change denial' is a psychological disorder -
the product of a spiteful, wilful or simply in-built neural
inability to face up to the catastrophe of global warming - is
becoming more and more popular amongst green-leaning activists and
academics. And nothing better sums up the elitism and
authoritarianism of the environmentalist lobby than its
psychologisation of dissent. The labelling of any criticism of the
politics of global warming, first as 'denial', and now as evidence
of mass psychological instability, is an attempt to write off all
critics and sceptics as deranged, and to lay the ground for
inevitable authoritarian solutions to the problem of climate change.
Historically, only the most illiberal and misanthropic regimes have
treated disagreement and debate as signs of mental ill-health. "
http://www.spiked-online.com/index.php?/site/earticle/6320/
Dave - The Medway Handyman
www.medwayhandyman.co.uk

Your point being what exactly?

The point being that the greenies are so convinced of their beliefs that
they consider anyone who disagrees with them must be mentally unstable.
I would have thought that obvious if you had read the article FFS.

People who say "and your point is" usually wouldn't get it if the
point stuck in them.

The use of the "denial" gambit is so obvious that only the PC brigade
still think it is clever.

[The Natural Philosopher]

Post by The Medway Handyman

Post by OG

Post by The Medway Handyman
The University of West England is hosting a major conference on
climate change 'denial'.
"The idea that 'climate change denial' is a psychological disorder -
the product of a spiteful, wilful or simply in-built neural
inability to face up to the catastrophe of global warming - is
becoming more and more popular amongst green-leaning activists and
academics. And nothing better sums up the elitism and
authoritarianism of the environmentalist lobby than its
psychologisation of dissent. The labelling of any criticism of the
politics of global warming, first as 'denial', and now as evidence
of mass psychological instability, is an attempt to write off all
critics and sceptics as deranged, and to lay the ground for
inevitable authoritarian solutions to the problem of climate change.
Historically, only the most illiberal and misanthropic regimes have
treated disagreement and debate as signs of mental ill-health. "
http://www.spiked-online.com/index.php?/site/earticle/6320/
Dave - The Medway Handyman
www.medwayhandyman.co.uk

Your point being what exactly?

The point being that the greenies are so convinced of their beliefs that
they consider anyone who disagrees with them must be mentally unstable.

Indeed. One only has to look at Dynamo Dave here.

Post by The Medway Handyman
I would have thought that obvious if you had read the article FFS.

[OG]

Post by The Medway Handyman

Post by OG

Post by The Medway Handyman
The University of West England is hosting a major conference on
climate change 'denial'.
"The idea that 'climate change denial' is a psychological disorder -
the product of a spiteful, wilful or simply in-built neural
inability to face up to the catastrophe of global warming - is
becoming more and more popular amongst green-leaning activists and
academics. And nothing better sums up the elitism and
authoritarianism of the environmentalist lobby than its
psychologisation of dissent. The labelling of any criticism of the
politics of global warming, first as 'denial', and now as evidence
of mass psychological instability, is an attempt to write off all
critics and sceptics as deranged, and to lay the ground for
inevitable authoritarian solutions to the problem of climate change.
Historically, only the most illiberal and misanthropic regimes have
treated disagreement and debate as signs of mental ill-health. "
http://www.spiked-online.com/index.php?/site/earticle/6320/
Dave - The Medway Handyman
www.medwayhandyman.co.uk

Your point being what exactly?

The point being that the greenies are so convinced of their beliefs that
they consider anyone who disagrees with them must be mentally unstable.
I would have thought that obvious if you had read the article FFS.

No, I didn't bother reading it. I just wondered whether you had a point to
make, or were you just saying 'I agree with this'.

Clearly the latter.

[The Medway Handyman]

Post by OG

Post by The Medway Handyman

Post by OG

Post by The Medway Handyman
The University of West England is hosting a major conference on
climate change 'denial'.
"The idea that 'climate change denial' is a psychological disorder
- the product of a spiteful, wilful or simply in-built neural
inability to face up to the catastrophe of global warming - is
becoming more and more popular amongst green-leaning activists and
academics. And nothing better sums up the elitism and
authoritarianism of the environmentalist lobby than its
psychologisation of dissent. The labelling of any criticism of the
politics of global warming, first as 'denial', and now as evidence
of mass psychological instability, is an attempt to write off all
critics and sceptics as deranged, and to lay the ground for
inevitable authoritarian solutions to the problem of climate
change. Historically, only the most illiberal and misanthropic
regimes have treated disagreement and debate as signs of mental
ill-health. "
http://www.spiked-online.com/index.php?/site/earticle/6320/ Dave - The
Medway Handyman
www.medwayhandyman.co.uk

Your point being what exactly?

The point being that the greenies are so convinced of their beliefs
that they consider anyone who disagrees with them must be mentally
unstable. I would have thought that obvious if you had read the article
FFS.

No, I didn't bother reading it. I just wondered whether you had a
point to make, or were you just saying 'I agree with this'.
Clearly the latter.

And what exactly was your point?

[OG]

Post by The Medway Handyman

Post by OG

Post by The Medway Handyman

Post by OG

Post by The Medway Handyman
The University of West England is hosting a major conference on
climate change 'denial'.
"The idea that 'climate change denial' is a psychological disorder
- the product of a spiteful, wilful or simply in-built neural
inability to face up to the catastrophe of global warming - is
becoming more and more popular amongst green-leaning activists and
academics. And nothing better sums up the elitism and
authoritarianism of the environmentalist lobby than its
psychologisation of dissent. The labelling of any criticism of the
politics of global warming, first as 'denial', and now as evidence
of mass psychological instability, is an attempt to write off all
critics and sceptics as deranged, and to lay the ground for
inevitable authoritarian solutions to the problem of climate
change. Historically, only the most illiberal and misanthropic
regimes have treated disagreement and debate as signs of mental
ill-health. "
http://www.spiked-online.com/index.php?/site/earticle/6320/ Dave - The
Medway Handyman
www.medwayhandyman.co.uk

Your point being what exactly?

The point being that the greenies are so convinced of their beliefs
that they consider anyone who disagrees with them must be mentally
unstable. I would have thought that obvious if you had read the article
FFS.

No, I didn't bother reading it. I just wondered whether you had a
point to make, or were you just saying 'I agree with this'.
Clearly the latter.

And what exactly was your point?

Touché

[D.M. Procida]

Post by The Medway Handyman

Post by OG

Post by The Medway Handyman
"The idea that 'climate change denial' is a psychological disorder -
the product of a spiteful, wilful or simply in-built neural
inability to face up to the catastrophe of global warming - is
becoming more and more popular amongst green-leaning activists and
academics. And nothing better sums up the elitism and
authoritarianism of the environmentalist lobby than its
psychologisation of dissent. The labelling of any criticism of the
politics of global warming, first as 'denial', and now as evidence
of mass psychological instability, is an attempt to write off all
critics and sceptics as deranged, and to lay the ground for
inevitable authoritarian solutions to the problem of climate change.
Historically, only the most illiberal and misanthropic regimes have
treated disagreement and debate as signs of mental ill-health. "
http://www.spiked-online.com/index.php?/site/earticle/6320/
Dave - The Medway Handyman
www.medwayhandyman.co.uk

Your point being what exactly?

The point being that the greenies are so convinced of their beliefs that
they consider anyone who disagrees with them must be mentally unstable.

"Denial" (in the context of the phrase "climate change denial") doesn't
imply mental instability or disorder at all. It's a perfectly normal,
though usually undesirable, part of everyday cognitive behaviour, both
at the level of individuals and of societies. It represents a refusal to
recognise something that is the case.

It seems like quite a useful context within which to examine this kind
of debate, because one thing a claim of denial requires is an
examination of the roots of the supposed denial.

It works both ways of course - in a debate like this, either side might
be in a reasonable position to identify denial at work in the position
of the other.

In the case of the debate about climate change, if you think that what
is the case is reasonably clear, then you'd have to ask why is it that
one side or the other refuses to recognise this reasonably clear thing.

Contrary to the Spiked Online article you quoted, the answer is not
going to be: because they're evil! or: because they're stupid! or:
because they're mentally unstable! - that's just not what the concept of
denial involves.

The Spiked Online article you quoted seems to fail to understand the
concept of denial. It just looks a bit silly and sensationalist to me.

Daniele

[The Medway Handyman]

<SNIP>

Post by D.M. Procida

Post by The Medway Handyman

Post by OG
Your point being what exactly?

The point being that the greenies are so convinced of their beliefs
that they consider anyone who disagrees with them must be mentally
unstable.

"Denial" (in the context of the phrase "climate change denial")
doesn't imply mental instability or disorder at all. It's a perfectly
normal, though usually undesirable, part of everyday cognitive
behaviour, both at the level of individuals and of societies. It
represents a refusal to recognise something that is the case.

Assuming it is the case of course. As far as many people are concerned the
jury is still out on that.

Post by D.M. Procida
It seems like quite a useful context within which to examine this kind
of debate, because one thing a claim of denial requires is an
examination of the roots of the supposed denial.

The Greenies are the proponents of the 'climate change - caused by the evil
human hordes' argument . They won't accept any evidence that their beliefs
can be flawed or even debated.

Post by D.M. Procida
It works both ways of course - in a debate like this, either side
might be in a reasonable position to identify denial at work in the
position of the other.
In the case of the debate about climate change, if you think that what
is the case is reasonably clear, then you'd have to ask why is it that
one side or the other refuses to recognise this reasonably clear thing.

Exactly my point. As far as I and many other are concerned, there is no
clear evidence one way or the other. The Green Movement started with a few
tree huggers, then became a semi religion & has now also become an industry.
I wonder how many of the delegates to that conference earn their living from
environmental FUD? Close to 100% I'd guess.

To even think of having such a conference shows the incredible self
righteous arrogance of the Greens.

[D.M. Procida]

Post by The Medway Handyman
<SNIP>

Post by D.M. Procida

Post by The Medway Handyman

Post by OG
Your point being what exactly?

The point being that the greenies are so convinced of their beliefs
that they consider anyone who disagrees with them must be mentally
unstable.

"Denial" (in the context of the phrase "climate change denial")
doesn't imply mental instability or disorder at all. It's a perfectly
normal, though usually undesirable, part of everyday cognitive
behaviour, both at the level of individuals and of societies. It
represents a refusal to recognise something that is the case.

Assuming it is the case of course. As far as many people are concerned the
jury is still out on that.

That's quite true. Even if on balance scientific opinion does mostly
agree both that we are experiencing climate change and (to a lesser
extent) that it is caused by humans, it's pretty far from an
overwhelming consensus.

Post by The Medway Handyman

Post by D.M. Procida
It seems like quite a useful context within which to examine this kind
of debate, because one thing a claim of denial requires is an
examination of the roots of the supposed denial.

The Greenies are the proponents of the 'climate change - caused by the evil
human hordes' argument . They won't accept any evidence that their beliefs
can be flawed or even debated.

Who are these "Greenies" you so readily identify? There are plenty of
environmental, meteorological and other scientists who also believe that
climate change is caused by human activity. Are these proponents of the
idea ones who won't accept any evidence?

Post by The Medway Handyman

Post by D.M. Procida
It works both ways of course - in a debate like this, either side
might be in a reasonable position to identify denial at work in the
position of the other.
In the case of the debate about climate change, if you think that what
is the case is reasonably clear, then you'd have to ask why is it that
one side or the other refuses to recognise this reasonably clear thing.

Exactly my point.

No, it wasn't. Your point was that anyone who raises the idea that
someone else's beliefs lie in a denial of evidence is accusing them of
being mentally ill.

Post by The Medway Handyman
As far as I and many other are concerned, there is no
clear evidence one way or the other. The Green Movement started with a few
tree huggers, then became a semi religion & has now also become an industry.

It has much more complex roots than that, which can be found in (amongst
other things) European health movements in the early twentieth century
(as a reaction to the Industrial Revolution), animist and pagan cultures
and practices, conservation movements, ecology and other life sciences,
and elsewhere.

You'll find that tree-hugging appears quite late in the story.

Daniele

[The Natural Philosopher]

Post by D.M. Procida

Post by The Medway Handyman
As far as I and many other are concerned, there is no
clear evidence one way or the other. The Green Movement started with a few
tree huggers, then became a semi religion & has now also become an industry.

It has much more complex roots than that, which can be found in (amongst
other things) European health movements in the early twentieth century
(as a reaction to the Industrial Revolution), animist and pagan cultures
and practices, conservation movements, ecology and other life sciences,
and elsewhere.

This is very Germanic POV..nature is gut. Man is bad sort of crap.

Post by D.M. Procida
You'll find that tree-hugging appears quite late in the story.
Daniele

Inded. the worst of it is that there are two sorts of denial going on.

One is the denial of climate change at all, sponsored largely by
companies who see the end of their business models in sight if we ditch
carbon fuel, and the other is the greenpiss deniers, who refuse to face
the fact that we are basically fucked if we *dont* use carbon or nuclear
fuel, and cling to qualitative solutions like windmills and stupid light
bulbs and solar panels, which don't even dent the problem.

This results in a total impasse between vested interests wanting things
to sty the way they are, and vested intesrests happy to promote
ecobollox, and bring civilisation down that way.

[k***@moo.uklinux.net]

Post by The Medway Handyman
The University of West England is hosting a major conference on climate
change 'denial'.
"The idea that 'climate change denial' is a psychological disorder - the
product of a spiteful, wilful or simply in-built neural inability to face up
to the catastrophe of global warming - is becoming more and more popular
amongst green-leaning activists and academics.

But what really gets me is the unfair labelling of perpertual
motion exponents as "conservation of energy deniers", and the
hidden-variable local-realism community as "quantum deniers".
And the creationist "evolution deniers". Perhaps they should
just call them all "science deniers" and be done with it.


#Paul