Adapter to fit LiIon batteries to Makita 18V NiCd power tools?

[David]

My trusty Makita cordless tools are coming to the end of their battery
life.

I have read that there is some kind of adapter to fit LiIon batteries to
these tools.

Anyone tried this with success?

Initial on line searches are not helpful.

Cheers



Dave R

[Theo]

Post by David
My trusty Makita cordless tools are coming to the end of their battery
life.
I have read that there is some kind of adapter to fit LiIon batteries to
these tools.
Anyone tried this with success?
Initial on line searches are not helpful.

Aliexpress is the place:
https://www.aliexpress.com/item/1005004788505951.html

No experience, but what I would say is don't use them with near flat
batteries. The low battery cutoff on LXT Makitas is in the tool not the
battery, so you could brick the batteries by taking them too low. If you
never run them with batteries less than half full then probably not a
problem.

Although you'd probably find modern tools are night and day better than old
ones. So I wouldn't invest too much going down this route.

Theo

[Mark]

Post by David
My trusty Makita cordless tools are coming to the end of their battery
life.
I have read that there is some kind of adapter to fit LiIon batteries to
these tools.
Anyone tried this with success?
Initial on line searches are not helpful.
Cheers
Dave R

I use Wickes 18V 2.0Ah battery Li-ion 1ForAll® Battery in old Makita cordless tools with an adapter sold on ebay the low battery cutoff is in the battery cost £24
https://www.wickes.co.uk/Wickes-18V-2-0Ah-Li-ion-1ForAll%C2%AE-Battery/p/252154

[Smolley]

Post by David
My trusty Makita cordless tools are coming to the end of their battery
life.
I have read that there is some kind of adapter to fit LiIon batteries to
these tools.
Anyone tried this with success?
Initial on line searches are not helpful.
Cheers
Dave R

https://www.amazon.co.uk/s?k=makita+equivalent+battery&crid=1BEHIMP7QR5W7&sprefix=makita
+equivalent+battery%2Caps%2C87&ref=nb_sb_noss

[John Rumm]

Post by David
My trusty Makita cordless tools are coming to the end of their battery
life.
I have read that there is some kind of adapter to fit LiIon batteries to
these tools.

Yup.

Post by David
Anyone tried this with success?

I have a 18V combi and impact driver that were originally supplied with
MiMh batteries (same form factor as their older NiCd ones). I was
nearing the end of life on the second set of NiMh batts I had bought,
and decided it was time to migrate to LXT for new tools.

I thought it worth trying the old tools on the adaptors. I got a couple
of different ones. It seems that one is a very much better design than
the other. That is very similar to:

https://www.amazon.co.uk/dp/B08S6Y41SB

(or the cheaper but slower source)

https://www.aliexpress.com/item/1005004256107096.html

Post by David
Initial on line searches are not helpful.

Generally they have worked well. They add a little bit of height to the
tool, but don't really change the balance.

Makita LXT batteries do have a battery management facility built into
the battery, but also can take advantage of smarts in the tools. Hence
it would be wise to not run them completely flat in the tool. (LXT
batteries have charge indicators on the them anyway, so you can check)

(and don't plug a LXT battery with an adaptor on it into the old
NiCd/NiMh charger!)
--
Cheers,

John.

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[Harry Bloomfield Esq]

Post by David
I have read that there is some kind of adapter to fit LiIon batteries to
these tools.
Anyone tried this with success?

I rebuilt one of my three Makita Nicad batteries, with Ni-Mh ones -
several years ago. The drop in charger, claimed to be able to charge
either type, reading the label on the charger. It was a success, so I
intended to do the remaining two, but never got around to it, I just
bought a new Parkside kit. The Ni-Mh still works just fine.

[John Rumm]

Post by Harry Bloomfield Esq

Post by David
I have read that there is some kind of adapter to fit LiIon batteries to
these tools.
Anyone tried this with success?

I rebuilt one of my three Makita Nicad batteries, with Ni-Mh ones -
several years ago. The drop in charger, claimed to be able to charge
either type, reading the label on the charger. It was a success, so I
intended to do the remaining two, but never got around to it, I just
bought a new Parkside kit. The Ni-Mh still works just fine.

Those Makita NiCd/Mh chargers are quite versatile - will cope with
either chemistry and anything from 7 to 18V.

I found some of my very old battery tools had a connector that
"borrowed" that used by Makita in the Nickel era, and hence could be
charged on the Mak charger. Much faster and easier on the supplied slow
charger.
--
Cheers,

John.

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[Harry Bloomfield Esq]

Post by John Rumm
Those Makita NiCd/Mh chargers are quite versatile - will cope with
either chemistry and anything from 7 to 18V.

I wasn't aware of that.

Post by John Rumm
I found some of my very old battery tools had a connector that
"borrowed" that used by Makita in the Nickel era, and hence could be
charged on the Mak charger. Much faster and easier on the supplied slow
charger.

This thread has prompted me to look at rebuilding another of my two near
dead, Makita battery packs. I compared the cost of buyig the Ni-Mh
cells, to rebuilt one - versus just buying a ready-made, compatible 4aH
pack. Rebuilding one, is just not worthwhile.

[John Rumm]

Post by Harry Bloomfield Esq

Post by John Rumm
Those Makita NiCd/Mh chargers are quite versatile - will cope with
either chemistry and anything from 7 to 18V.

I wasn't aware of that.

Post by John Rumm
I found some of my very old battery tools had a connector that
"borrowed" that used by Makita in the Nickel era, and hence could be
charged on the Mak charger. Much faster and easier on the supplied
slow charger.

This thread has prompted me to look at rebuilding another of my two near
dead, Makita battery packs. I compared the cost of buyig the Ni-Mh
cells, to rebuilt one - versus just buying a ready-made, compatible 4aH
pack. Rebuilding one, is just not worthwhile.

Although that is possibly not comparing like for like. Chances are if
you rebuilt it yourself, you would use decent branded cells, compared to
the "no name" cells of dubious quality that you will find in many
"compatible" packs.

Having said that, a battery adaptor and a LXT pack might be a better way
forward if you were planning to add any modern Mak 18V tools.

It will also be interesting to see what happens with new startup Ceenr /
PD Nation - they have produced a fully interchangeable battery platform
when you buy the pack and whatever adaptors you need to connect it to
your tool. Hence making it easy to share batts between tool platforms.
The batts recharge from a USB C (with PD) charger.
--
Cheers,

John.

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[Theo]

Post by John Rumm
It will also be interesting to see what happens with new startup Ceenr /
PD Nation - they have produced a fully interchangeable battery platform
when you buy the pack and whatever adaptors you need to connect it to
your tool. Hence making it easy to share batts between tool platforms.
The batts recharge from a USB C (with PD) charger.

Interesting:

I was hoping they had put the cells in a ridged metal housing to aid in air
cooling when they get used heavily, and to aid in cooling them while
charging (allowing faster charging without a fan). But it seems the ridges
are ABS plastic - perhaps still better than the flat plastic of other
brands.

The one downside seems to be charging speed for using power hungry tools for
long periods. It would be interesting to see if the USB-C charging speed
can be increased by cooling the battery, or whether it's an electrical
limit.

Theo

[John Rumm]

Post by Theo

Post by John Rumm
It will also be interesting to see what happens with new startup Ceenr /
PD Nation - they have produced a fully interchangeable battery platform
when you buy the pack and whatever adaptors you need to connect it to
your tool. Hence making it easy to share batts between tool platforms.
The batts recharge from a USB C (with PD) charger.

http://youtu.be/CDFMOP0qr3Q
I was hoping they had put the cells in a ridged metal housing to aid in air
cooling when they get used heavily, and to aid in cooling them while
charging (allowing faster charging without a fan). But it seems the ridges
are ABS plastic - perhaps still better than the flat plastic of other
brands.
The one downside seems to be charging speed for using power hungry tools for
long periods. It would be interesting to see if the USB-C charging speed
can be increased by cooling the battery, or whether it's an electrical
limit.

The latest iteration of USB-C PD allows for up to 240W of power delivery
- so the power supply does not need to be the limitation. However, as
you say, cooling will become the limiting factor.

The other downside I can see is that with modern air cooled charging
platforms, you can put a hot pack on "charge" - which is contrary to
convention wisdom about not fast charging a hot pack. In these cases the
charger will sense the battery temperature, and just run cooling on its
own until it is cool enough to actually start the charge. There is no
obvious way to replicate this capability on these universal ones that I
can see at the moment.
--
Cheers,

John.

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[Theo]

Post by John Rumm
The latest iteration of USB-C PD allows for up to 240W of power delivery
- so the power supply does not need to be the limitation. However, as
you say, cooling will become the limiting factor.

It need not, but it can be a limit of the design of the power conversion
circuit inside the battery. Unlike conventional platforms you pay for one
conversion circuit per battery, so they are strongly incentivised to cut
corners on that circuit. It also means you can't upgrade the charging speed
by using a different charger.

Post by John Rumm
The other downside I can see is that with modern air cooled charging
platforms, you can put a hot pack on "charge" - which is contrary to
convention wisdom about not fast charging a hot pack. In these cases the
charger will sense the battery temperature, and just run cooling on its
own until it is cool enough to actually start the charge. There is no
obvious way to replicate this capability on these universal ones that I
can see at the moment.

If the battery regulates its charging speed based on temperature (as maybe
it does), you could imagine a charging dock with fans in it. The battery
charges very slowly or not at all while hot, but the fans run and cool the
battery and once cool it starts charging faster. The dock would only
passthrough the USB-C, and perhaps have its own temperature sensor to
control the fans.

Theo

[Andy Burns]

Post by Theo
http://youtu.be/CDFMOP0qr3Q

Interesting, but shit was what I thought he said?

[Theo]

Post by Andy Burns

Post by Theo
http://youtu.be/CDFMOP0qr3Q

Interesting, but shit was what I thought he said?

Not quite as good as OEM, but looked pretty good for anything but the
highest loads, which you won't be doing much of the time anyway.
If you used a passive aftermarket adapter you might also find a performance
dropoff as some of those don't seem very well engineered.

There's something to be said for maintaining a heavy duty battery platform
(eg tools on a 40V system) and then using this for the lighter duty 18V
tools (the majority). Where you do need the power, buy a 40V tool.

Theo

[Andy Burns]

Post by Theo

Post by Andy Burns

Post by Theo
http://youtu.be/CDFMOP0qr3Q

Interesting, but shit was what I thought he said?

Not quite as good as OEM, but looked pretty good for anything but the
highest loads

Ah, I thought you'd linked to Tools & Stuff, not Torque Test Channel

[Theo]

Post by Andy Burns

Post by Theo

Post by Andy Burns

Post by Theo
http://youtu.be/CDFMOP0qr3Q

Interesting, but shit was what I thought he said?

Not quite as good as OEM, but looked pretty good for anything but the
highest loads

Ah, I thought you'd linked to Tools & Stuff, not Torque Test Channel
http://youtu.be/iawmyi4BljY

Hmm, a bit overblown there. The market for these isn't builders who are
breaking concrete all day and need 4 batteries an hour so they're constantly
on fast charge, it's DIYers who don't want to be chained to a battery
platform. A lot of the durability objections go away in a DIY context
(although the rubber flap isn't great - if phones can have waterproof ports
then they should too)

The more batteries you're going to use, the less the cost in having several
battery platforms on the go. It's when you don't have any investment in
platform then this makes most sense.

If you do use a few batteries, there might be some sense in having one or
few of these in your arsenal: you can always charge from USB-C to get you
out of a pickle. For example, car USB-C -> battery is easy here,
while you'd be left trying to find the rare/expensive Makita/Dewalt/... car
charger. They can also cover the cases where you have a long tail of
other-brand tools and don't want to invest in their platform, and the
battery protection might be better than Makita/Dewalt/etc (remains to be
seen).

I agree there's some build quality issues and there really should be a
stalling reset feature on the battery. It wasn't fair to just show that and
not demonstrate the battery working on non-stalling loads, which it seems to
mostly handle according to other reviews.

The review wasn't helped by him charging from a USB-A which is only going to
be max 10W, and not USB-PD 45W. He also didn't test the power output
feature.

Theo