Discussion:
PAT Testing training - how to choose?
(too old to reply)
Chris Green
2024-11-12 17:27:21 UTC
Permalink
The whole world and his uncle offer PAT Testing Training. My local
church has asked if might get trained so I can do their PAT testing.

I am quite happy to undertake this but there's so many offers out
there that I'm at a loss which one might suit. I have a degree in
Electrical Engineering (I spent most of my working life as a Software
Engineer though). I am well aware that a degree in engineering often
doesn't mean that one has any prectical knowledge or skill at all but
I do also have a fair amount of experience in basic house wiring etc.

So, any recommendations would be welcome and/or warnings about courses
to avoid.
--
Chris Green
·
charles
2024-11-12 18:45:02 UTC
Permalink
Post by Chris Green
The whole world and his uncle offer PAT Testing Training. My local
church has asked if might get trained so I can do their PAT testing.
I am quite happy to undertake this but there's so many offers out
there that I'm at a loss which one might suit. I have a degree in
Electrical Engineering (I spent most of my working life as a Software
Engineer though). I am well aware that a degree in engineering often
doesn't mean that one has any prectical knowledge or skill at all but
I do also have a fair amount of experience in basic house wiring etc.
So, any recommendations would be welcome and/or warnings about courses
to avoid.
I did a "Theatrical PAT" day about 15 years ago. The important thing is to
have a decent meter.
--
from KT24 in Surrey, England - sent from my RISC OS 4té²
"I'd rather die of exhaustion than die of boredom" Thomas Carlyle
Adrian Caspersz
2024-11-12 18:47:04 UTC
Permalink
Post by Chris Green
The whole world and his uncle offer PAT Testing Training. My local
church has asked if might get trained so I can do their PAT testing.
I am quite happy to undertake this but there's so many offers out
there that I'm at a loss which one might suit. I have a degree in
Electrical Engineering (I spent most of my working life as a Software
Engineer though). I am well aware that a degree in engineering often
doesn't mean that one has any prectical knowledge or skill at all but
I do also have a fair amount of experience in basic house wiring etc.
So, any recommendations would be welcome and/or warnings about courses
to avoid.
Where are you? I independently did a course in Dartford, Essex - walked
it and scored 100% in the exam. Was in search of job opportunities, and
quickly decided the life grifting for the rights to disconnect plugs for
fragile IT equipment and blowing these up was not for me.

(However, if I wanted to make some money, supplying and calibrating the
test equipment, running courses, and writing software for site asset
management looks a bit of a wheeze.)

However I now have that PAT ticket, and the current job even sends me on
refresher training - a bit unnecessary.

One thing I have noticed with my class colleagues, was a bit of
difficulty understanding the concepts of isolation transformers. If I
was the lecturer, I would have perhaps done that training a bit slower.
--
Adrian C
Chris Green
2024-11-12 19:15:45 UTC
Permalink
Post by Adrian Caspersz
Post by Chris Green
The whole world and his uncle offer PAT Testing Training. My local
church has asked if might get trained so I can do their PAT testing.
I am quite happy to undertake this but there's so many offers out
there that I'm at a loss which one might suit. I have a degree in
Electrical Engineering (I spent most of my working life as a Software
Engineer though). I am well aware that a degree in engineering often
doesn't mean that one has any prectical knowledge or skill at all but
I do also have a fair amount of experience in basic house wiring etc.
So, any recommendations would be welcome and/or warnings about courses
to avoid.
Where are you? I independently did a course in Dartford, Essex - walked
it and scored 100% in the exam. Was in search of job opportunities, and
quickly decided the life grifting for the rights to disconnect plugs for
fragile IT equipment and blowing these up was not for me.
I'm in Ipswich so Dartford isn't so far, how much did it cost (and how
long ago)?
Post by Adrian Caspersz
(However, if I wanted to make some money, supplying and calibrating the
test equipment, running courses, and writing software for site asset
management looks a bit of a wheeze.)
That's my feeling entirely, I'm not aiming to make money or even do
lots of PAT testing.
Post by Adrian Caspersz
However I now have that PAT ticket, and the current job even sends me on
refresher training - a bit unnecessary.
One thing I have noticed with my class colleagues, was a bit of
difficulty understanding the concepts of isolation transformers. If I
was the lecturer, I would have perhaps done that training a bit slower.
I know far too much about isolation transformers already, they are
commonly used to reduce galvanic corrosion to steel boats and we have
a little steel canal boat. There is much rubbish talked about
isolation transformers! :-)
--
Chris Green
·
Adrian Caspersz
2024-11-12 19:28:47 UTC
Permalink
Post by Chris Green
Post by Adrian Caspersz
Where are you? I independently did a course in Dartford, Essex - walked
it and scored 100% in the exam. Was in search of job opportunities, and
quickly decided the life grifting for the rights to disconnect plugs for
fragile IT equipment and blowing these up was not for me.
I'm in Ipswich so Dartford isn't so far, how much did it cost (and how
long ago)?
2009, https://www.ableskills.co.uk/

Think it cost me about £100 then.
--
Adrian C
Robert
2024-11-12 20:19:53 UTC
Permalink
Post by Chris Green
The whole world and his uncle offer PAT Testing Training. My local
church has asked if might get trained so I can do their PAT testing.
I am quite happy to undertake this but there's so many offers out
there that I'm at a loss which one might suit. I have a degree in
Electrical Engineering (I spent most of my working life as a Software
Engineer though). I am well aware that a degree in engineering often
doesn't mean that one has any prectical knowledge or skill at all but
I do also have a fair amount of experience in basic house wiring etc.
So, any recommendations would be welcome and/or warnings about courses
to avoid.
There are/were some online courses. You dont need a qualification, just
have to be competent. But organisations , insurers etc like certificates !
I got sent on the C&G course 18 years ago, just did the last day of a 2
day course.Open book exam, 1 hour allowed and myself and 1 other who had
serious previous expertise did it in 20 mins even after carefully going
through our answers on good exam style. Many of the others struggled to
complete in 1 hr. We still got one question wrong.
Completely over the top for checking safety of items being sold in a
Charity Shop.
Andrew Gabriel
2024-11-15 20:12:25 UTC
Permalink
Post by Chris Green
The whole world and his uncle offer PAT Testing Training. My local
church has asked if might get trained so I can do their PAT testing.
I am quite happy to undertake this but there's so many offers out
there that I'm at a loss which one might suit. I have a degree in
Electrical Engineering (I spent most of my working life as a Software
Engineer though). I am well aware that a degree in engineering often
doesn't mean that one has any prectical knowledge or skill at all but
I do also have a fair amount of experience in basic house wiring etc.
So, any recommendations would be welcome and/or warnings about courses
to avoid.
You want the C&G 2377 courses/certificates. There are two of them, one
for doing the testing, and the other for managing testing, but they're
always done together. It is designed to be accessible to
non-electricians. Prerequisites would be knowing ohms law and how to
wire a plug. (Most of the electricians on the course failed to meet
those two.) The course used to run over 2 days, with an exam at the end
of each day. C&G 2377 was the only certificate HSE recognised 30 years
ago demonstrating competency.

The courses run by the manufacturers of the testers are much more about
how to use their tester. Most of PAT testing is nothing to do with using
a tester, and most failures are picked up before you ever get to the
tester. If you see someone starting a PAT test off by using the tester,
they haven't got a clue what they're doing.
--
Andrew Gabriel
Robert
2024-11-16 20:06:13 UTC
Permalink
Post by Andrew Gabriel
Post by Chris Green
The whole world and his uncle offer PAT Testing Training. My local
church has asked if might get trained so I can do their PAT testing.
I am quite happy to undertake this but there's so many offers out
there that I'm at a loss which one might suit.  I have a degree in
Electrical Engineering (I spent most of my working life as a Software
Engineer though).  I am well aware that a degree in engineering often
doesn't mean that one has any prectical knowledge or skill at all but
I do also have a fair amount of experience in basic house wiring etc.
So, any recommendations would be welcome and/or warnings about courses
to avoid.
You want the C&G 2377 courses/certificates. There are two of them, one
for doing the testing, and the other for managing testing, but they're
always done together. It is designed to be accessible to
non-electricians. Prerequisites would be knowing ohms law and how to
wire a plug. (Most of the electricians on the course failed to meet
those two.) The course used to run over 2 days, with an exam at the end
of each day. C&G 2377 was the only certificate HSE recognised 30 years
ago demonstrating competency.
The courses run by the manufacturers of the testers are much more about
how to use their tester. Most of PAT testing is nothing to do with using
a tester, and most failures are picked up before you ever get to the
tester. If you see someone starting a PAT test off by using the tester,
they haven't got a clue what they're doing.
+1 The only issues I have picked up with a PAT tester is
insulation/leakage in mineral insulated heater elements.
Tim+
2024-11-19 08:24:19 UTC
Permalink
Post by Chris Green
The whole world and his uncle offer PAT Testing Training.
Portable appliance testing testing training? Surely either PA test training
or PAT training? ;-)

Tim
--
Please don't feed the trolls
Pancho
2024-11-19 08:37:54 UTC
Permalink
Post by Tim+
Post by Chris Green
The whole world and his uncle offer PAT Testing Training.
Portable appliance testing testing training? Surely either PA test training
or PAT training? ;-)
Tim
The hoi polli like some redundancy :-).
charles
2024-11-19 09:08:03 UTC
Permalink
Post by Pancho
Post by Tim+
Post by Chris Green
The whole world and his uncle offer PAT Testing Training.
Portable appliance testing testing training? Surely either PA test
training or PAT training? ;-)
Tim
The hoi polli like some redundancy :-).
"The The many"?
--
from KT24 in Surrey, England - sent from my RISC OS 4té²
"I'd rather die of exhaustion than die of boredom" Thomas Carlyle
Andy Burns
2024-11-19 09:17:02 UTC
Permalink
Post by charles
Post by Pancho
The hoi polli like some redundancy :-).
"The The many"?
<whoosh?>
The Natural Philosopher
2024-11-19 09:26:23 UTC
Permalink
Post by Andy Burns
Post by charles
Post by Pancho
The hoi polli like some redundancy :-).
"The The many"?
<whoosh?>
Its 'hoi polloi' ( οἱ πολλοί )


Nothing to do with parrots
--
“I know that most men, including those at ease with problems of the
greatest complexity, can seldom accept even the simplest and most
obvious truth if it be such as would oblige them to admit the falsity of
conclusions which they have delighted in explaining to colleagues, which
they have proudly taught to others, and which they have woven, thread by
thread, into the fabric of their lives.”

― Leo Tolstoy
Andy Burns
2024-11-19 09:27:45 UTC
Permalink
Post by The Natural Philosopher
Post by Andy Burns
Post by charles
Post by Pancho
The hoi polli like some redundancy :-).
"The The many"?
<whoosh?>
Its 'hoi polloi' ( οἱ πολλοί )
<double whoosh?>
The Natural Philosopher
2024-11-19 09:29:34 UTC
Permalink
Post by Andy Burns
Post by The Natural Philosopher
Post by Andy Burns
Post by charles
Post by Pancho
The hoi polli like some redundancy :-).
"The The many"?
<whoosh?>
Its 'hoi polloi' ( οἱ πολλοί )
<double whoosh?>
Bit of gas today? I sympathise.
--
“when things get difficult you just have to lie”

― Jean Claud Jüncker
Pancho
2025-01-20 20:07:39 UTC
Permalink
Post by Andy Burns
Post by The Natural Philosopher
Post by Andy Burns
Post by charles
Post by Pancho
The hoi polli like some redundancy :-).
"The The many"?
<whoosh?>
Its 'hoi polloi' ( οἱ πολλοί )
<double whoosh?>
You can lead a horse to water...

FWIW common English Usage is what it is, and it is English wot we are
speaking.
The Natural Philosopher
2025-01-21 09:54:49 UTC
Permalink
Post by Pancho
Post by Andy Burns
Post by The Natural Philosopher
Post by Andy Burns
Post by charles
Post by Pancho
The hoi polli like some redundancy :-).
"The The many"?
<whoosh?>
Its 'hoi polloi' ( οἱ πολλοί )
<double whoosh?>
You can lead a horse to water...
FWIW common English Usage is what it is, and it is English wot we are
speaking.
The standard excuse for lazy speaking and grammatical ignorance
--
The higher up the mountainside
The greener grows the grass.
The higher up the monkey climbs
The more he shows his arse.

Traditional
Pancho
2025-01-21 11:22:48 UTC
Permalink
Post by The Natural Philosopher
Post by Pancho
Post by Andy Burns
Post by The Natural Philosopher
Post by Andy Burns
Post by charles
Post by Pancho
The hoi polli like some redundancy :-).
"The The many"?
<whoosh?>
Its 'hoi polloi' ( οἱ πολλοί )
<double whoosh?>
You can lead a horse to water...
FWIW common English Usage is what it is, and it is English wot we are
speaking.
The standard excuse for lazy speaking and grammatical ignorance
You seem to be confused, I can't spell, I'm shit at grammar, my
handwriting is even worse. I barely scraped grade C at English language
O'level. At 16 I had a huge sense of joy knowing I would never need to
write another essay, ever again.

However we aren't discussing grammar, you are supporting an argument,
from first principles, that we should interpret each foreign word
literally, when we adopt a foreign loan phrase, and presumably similarly
for acronyms.

My argument is that we should view foreign loan phrases holistically and
use them in a way that sounds harmonious, standard, to the ear of a
native English speaker.

So in English it is The hoi polloi, and not some convoluted
interpretation of how some ancient bubble would use it in modern
English. Similarly, if PAT testing sounds harmonious to the ear of your
average sparky, that is what we should use.

The ultimate judge of what is right is standard usage.
The Natural Philosopher
2025-01-21 14:27:40 UTC
Permalink
Post by Pancho
Post by The Natural Philosopher
Post by Pancho
Post by Andy Burns
Post by The Natural Philosopher
Post by Andy Burns
Post by charles
Post by Pancho
The hoi polli like some redundancy :-).
"The The many"?
<whoosh?>
Its 'hoi polloi' ( οἱ πολλοί )
<double whoosh?>
You can lead a horse to water...
FWIW common English Usage is what it is, and it is English wot we are
speaking.
The standard excuse for lazy speaking and grammatical ignorance
You seem to be confused, I can't spell, I'm shit at grammar, my
handwriting is even worse. I barely scraped grade C at English language
O'level. At 16 I had a huge sense of joy knowing I would never need to
write another essay, ever again.
However we aren't discussing grammar, you are supporting an argument,
from first principles, that we should interpret each foreign word
literally, when we adopt a foreign loan phrase, and presumably similarly
for acronyms.
I am arguing for people who use it to know how to use it.

You don't have to use it at all. Using it without knowing how is
pointless afffectation.
Post by Pancho
The ultimate judge of what is right is standard usage.
No, it isn't. Not where precision counts.
--
“There are two ways to be fooled. One is to believe what isn’t true; the
other is to refuse to believe what is true.”

—Soren Kierkegaard
Pancho
2025-01-21 14:49:12 UTC
Permalink
Post by The Natural Philosopher
Post by Pancho
Post by The Natural Philosopher
Post by Pancho
Post by Andy Burns
Post by The Natural Philosopher
Post by Andy Burns
Post by charles
Post by Pancho
The hoi polli like some redundancy :-).
"The The many"?
<whoosh?>
Its 'hoi polloi' ( οἱ πολλοί )
<double whoosh?>
You can lead a horse to water...
FWIW common English Usage is what it is, and it is English wot we
are speaking.
The standard excuse for lazy speaking and grammatical ignorance
You seem to be confused, I can't spell, I'm shit at grammar, my
handwriting is even worse. I barely scraped grade C at English
language O'level. At 16 I had a huge sense of joy knowing I would
never need to write another essay, ever again.
However we aren't discussing grammar, you are supporting an argument,
from first principles, that we should interpret each foreign word
literally, when we adopt a foreign loan phrase, and presumably
similarly for acronyms.
I am arguing for people who use it to know how to use it.
You don't have to use it at all. Using it without knowing how is
pointless afffectation.
That is a circular insult. The crime of misuse is predicated on the
assumption it is misused.
Post by The Natural Philosopher
Post by Pancho
The ultimate judge of what is right is standard usage.
No, it isn't. Not where precision counts.
The redundancy doesn't make it less precise, less compact perhaps.

WIKI gives a nice example of the word alcohol.


Quote:
---
Some linguists argue that, given that hoi is a definite article, the
phrase "the hoi polloi" is redundant, akin to saying "the the masses".
Others argue that this is inconsistent with other English loanwords.[12]
The word "alcohol", for instance, derives from the Arabic al-kuhl, al
being an article, yet "the alcohol" is universally accepted as good
grammar.[13]
---

Cite: <https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hoi_polloi>
Sam Plusnet
2025-01-25 18:50:30 UTC
Permalink
Post by Pancho
Post by The Natural Philosopher
Post by Pancho
Post by The Natural Philosopher
Post by Pancho
Post by Andy Burns
Post by The Natural Philosopher
Post by Andy Burns
Post by charles
Post by Pancho
The hoi polli like some redundancy :-).
"The The many"?
<whoosh?>
Its 'hoi polloi' ( οἱ πολλοί )
<double whoosh?>
You can lead a horse to water...
FWIW common English Usage is what it is, and it is English wot we
are speaking.
The standard excuse for lazy speaking and grammatical ignorance
You seem to be confused, I can't spell, I'm shit at grammar, my
handwriting is even worse. I barely scraped grade C at English
language O'level. At 16 I had a huge sense of joy knowing I would
never need to write another essay, ever again.
However we aren't discussing grammar, you are supporting an argument,
from first principles, that we should interpret each foreign word
literally, when we adopt a foreign loan phrase, and presumably
similarly for acronyms.
I am arguing for people who use it to know how to use it.
You don't have to use it at all. Using it without knowing how is
pointless afffectation.
That is a circular insult. The crime of misuse is predicated on the
assumption it is misused.
Post by The Natural Philosopher
Post by Pancho
The ultimate judge of what is right is standard usage.
No, it isn't. Not where precision counts.
The redundancy doesn't make it less precise, less compact perhaps.
WIKI gives a nice example of the word alcohol.
---
Some linguists argue that, given that hoi is a definite article, the
phrase "the hoi polloi" is redundant, akin to saying "the the masses".
Others argue that this is inconsistent with other English loanwords.[12]
The word "alcohol", for instance, derives from the Arabic al-kuhl, al
being an article, yet "the alcohol" is universally accepted as good
grammar.[13]
---
Cite: <https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hoi_polloi>
Different cases, I think.
The only suitable word in English for alcohol is "alcohol", so it has
been fully absorbed into English.

OTOH, it is perfectly easy to use English phrases like "the masses",
"the common people", "the great unwashed" etc. etc. - there are plenty
to choose from.
If someone chooses to use "hoi polloi" then they seem to be indicating a
degree of familiarity with (Ancient) Greek, but by writing "the hoi
polloi" they indicate the opposite. Confusing.

(No. I don't know no steenkin' Ancient Greek.)
--
Sam Plusnet
Tim Streater
2025-01-25 18:55:34 UTC
Permalink
Post by Sam Plusnet
If someone chooses to use "hoi polloi" then they seem to be indicating a
degree of familiarity with (Ancient) Greek ...
No. Just English.
--
"That which can be asserted without evidence, can be dismissed without evidence."
-- Christopher Hitchens
The Natural Philosopher
2025-01-25 19:03:35 UTC
Permalink
Post by Tim Streater
Post by Sam Plusnet
If someone chooses to use "hoi polloi" then they seem to be indicating a
degree of familiarity with (Ancient) Greek ...
No. Just English.
No, seem is one thing. The actuality is different
--
"I am inclined to tell the truth and dislike people who lie consistently.
This makes me unfit for the company of people of a Left persuasion, and
all women"
Jeff Gaines
2024-11-19 09:49:45 UTC
Permalink
On 19/11/2024 in message
Post by Tim+
Post by Chris Green
The whole world and his uncle offer PAT Testing Training.
Portable appliance testing testing training? Surely either PA test training
or PAT training? ;-)
Tim
Oh dear, I have forgotten my PIN number :-)
--
Jeff Gaines Dorset UK
Those are my principles – and if you don’t like them, well, I have
others.
(Groucho Marx)
charles
2024-11-19 10:45:26 UTC
Permalink
Post by Jeff Gaines
On 19/11/2024 in message
Post by Tim+
Post by Chris Green
The whole world and his uncle offer PAT Testing Training.
Portable appliance testing testing training? Surely either PA test training
or PAT training? ;-)
Tim
Oh dear, I have forgotten my PIN number :-)
anyway, it's now called "In-Service Inspection and Testing of Electrical
Equipment"
--
from KT24 in Surrey, England - sent from my RISC OS 4té²
"I'd rather die of exhaustion than die of boredom" Thomas Carlyle
Thomas Prufer
2024-11-19 12:05:19 UTC
Permalink
Post by Jeff Gaines
On 19/11/2024 in message
Post by Tim+
Post by Chris Green
The whole world and his uncle offer PAT Testing Training.
Portable appliance testing testing training? Surely either PA test training
or PAT training? ;-)
Tim
Oh dear, I have forgotten my PIN number :-)
The one for the ATM machine?

Thomas Prufer
nick
2024-11-19 12:14:28 UTC
Permalink
Post by Thomas Prufer
Post by Jeff Gaines
On 19/11/2024 in message
Post by Tim+
Post by Chris Green
The whole world and his uncle offer PAT Testing Training.
Portable appliance testing testing training? Surely either PA test training
or PAT training? ;-)
Tim
Oh dear, I have forgotten my PIN number :-)
The one for the ATM machine?
I like to use the ATM in the Post Office at Torpenhow Hill

Nick
The Nomad
2024-11-19 12:30:56 UTC
Permalink
Post by nick
Post by Thomas Prufer
Post by Jeff Gaines
On 19/11/2024 in message
<44587481.753697368.160989.timdownieuk-
Post by Tim+
Post by Chris Green
The whole world and his uncle offer PAT Testing Training.
Portable appliance testing testing training? Surely either PA test training
or PAT training? ;-)
Tim
Oh dear, I have forgotten my PIN number :-)
The one for the ATM machine?
I like to use the ATM in the Post Office at Torpenhow Hill
Nick
:-)

Avbpx
--
Tue 11403 Sep 12:30:01 GMT 1993
12:30:01 up 16 days, 23:08, 1 user, load average: 0.95, 0.86, 0.64
Thomas Prufer
2024-11-19 13:27:13 UTC
Permalink
Post by nick
Post by Thomas Prufer
Post by Jeff Gaines
On 19/11/2024 in message
Post by Tim+
Post by Chris Green
The whole world and his uncle offer PAT Testing Training.
Portable appliance testing testing training? Surely either PA test training
or PAT training? ;-)
Tim
Oh dear, I have forgotten my PIN number :-)
The one for the ATM machine?
I like to use the ATM in the Post Office at Torpenhow Hill
Nick
I prefer the ATM machine by the La Brea Tar Pit.


Thomas "Department of Redundancy Department" Prufer
John
2024-11-19 12:42:26 UTC
Permalink
Post by Jeff Gaines
Oh dear, I have forgotten my PIN number
Can you remember how to measure DC current?
--
TOJ.
Chris Green
2024-11-19 13:13:35 UTC
Permalink
Post by John
Post by Jeff Gaines
Oh dear, I have forgotten my PIN number
Can you remember how to measure DC current?
Scroggie calls it ZF current.
--
Chris Green
·
jon
2024-11-19 19:39:04 UTC
Permalink
Post by Chris Green
Post by John
Post by Jeff Gaines
Oh dear, I have forgotten my PIN number
Can you remember how to measure DC current?
Scroggie calls it ZF current.
He did when alive, but he's not bothered now.
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