Discussion:
UK to specify new charging cable standard
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Jethro_uk
2024-10-16 09:44:29 UTC
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A Brexit freedom, yay.

What would folk here prefer ?

https://www.theregister.com/2024/10/14/uk_usbc_charging_standard/

I think if we go for a 30-pin (just in case) connector that only goes one
way, with space for some nice printed messages for advertising.
jon
2024-10-16 09:53:09 UTC
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Post by Jethro_uk
A Brexit freedom, yay.
What would folk here prefer ?
https://www.theregister.com/2024/10/14/uk_usbc_charging_standard/
I think if we go for a 30-pin (just in case) connector that only goes
one way, with space for some nice printed messages for advertising.
I thought it was the standard, all computers and devices I have bought
over the the last two years, have USBc connectors for charging and data
transfer.
Jethro_uk
2024-10-16 10:29:22 UTC
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Post by jon
Post by Jethro_uk
A Brexit freedom, yay.
What would folk here prefer ?
https://www.theregister.com/2024/10/14/uk_usbc_charging_standard/
I think if we go for a 30-pin (just in case) connector that only goes
one way, with space for some nice printed messages for advertising.
I thought it was the standard, all computers and devices I have bought
over the the last two years, have USBc connectors for charging and data
transfer.
Apparently that's a little but too EU-ey for the UK now. Hence the need
for a consultation.
JNugent
2024-10-16 15:53:58 UTC
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Permalink
Post by jon
Post by Jethro_uk
A Brexit freedom, yay.
What would folk here prefer ?
https://www.theregister.com/2024/10/14/uk_usbc_charging_standard/
I think if we go for a 30-pin (just in case) connector that only goes
one way, with space for some nice printed messages for advertising.
I thought it was the standard, all computers and devices I have bought
over the the last two years, have USBc connectors for charging and data
transfer.
My current iPhone (bought in the USA about two years ago) still has the
Lightning socket, but the cable supplied has USB-C on the other end
(there was no wall-wart with it).

The MacBook Pro has the USB-C all round (I had to buy some adaptors for
PC connection).
The Natural Philosopher
2024-10-16 18:24:10 UTC
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Post by jon
Post by Jethro_uk
A Brexit freedom, yay.
What would folk here prefer ?
https://www.theregister.com/2024/10/14/uk_usbc_charging_standard/
I think if we go for a 30-pin (just in case) connector that only goes
one way, with space for some nice printed messages for advertising.
I thought it was the standard, all computers and devices I have bought
over the the last two years, have USBc connectors for charging and data
transfer.
Which is why fundamentally we dont need and never needed the EU to
enforce standards that either no one was following (X 25) or everyone
was following (TCP/IP)

It looks like USBc is going to be the 'standard'. My Pi 4 is using it. I
like it for one reason alone. You dont have to work out which way up it
goes.
--
"I am inclined to tell the truth and dislike people who lie consistently.
This makes me unfit for the company of people of a Left persuasion, and
all women"
Andrew Gabriel
2024-10-16 10:26:38 UTC
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Post by Jethro_uk
A Brexit freedom, yay.
What would folk here prefer ?
https://www.theregister.com/2024/10/14/uk_usbc_charging_standard/
I think if we go for a 30-pin (just in case) connector that only goes one
way, with space for some nice printed messages for advertising.
It's irrelevant. No one makes products just for the UK, so the EU law
would prevail here anyway, even if it wasn't legally required here.

Some other EU initiatives I would like to see here are all rechargeable
batteries must be user-replaceable, and all portable tools must use the
same format interchangeable rechargeable batteries.
--
Andrew Gabriel
Jethro_uk
2024-10-16 10:31:00 UTC
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Post by Andrew Gabriel
Post by Jethro_uk
A Brexit freedom, yay.
What would folk here prefer ?
https://www.theregister.com/2024/10/14/uk_usbc_charging_standard/
I think if we go for a 30-pin (just in case) connector that only goes
one way, with space for some nice printed messages for advertising.
It's irrelevant. No one makes products just for the UK, so the EU law
would prevail here anyway, even if it wasn't legally required here.
I think you are mistaken. Why else spend a lot of money consulting ?
Post by Andrew Gabriel
Some other EU initiatives I would like to see here are all rechargeable
batteries must be user-replaceable, and all portable tools must use the
same format interchangeable rechargeable batteries.
It's amazing how many people didn't get the memo about Brexit. If teh EU
are doing it, then the UK cannot. It's that simple.

Why else did we have a referendum ?
Andrew
2024-10-17 18:35:56 UTC
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Permalink
Post by Jethro_uk
Post by Andrew Gabriel
Post by Jethro_uk
A Brexit freedom, yay.
What would folk here prefer ?
https://www.theregister.com/2024/10/14/uk_usbc_charging_standard/
I think if we go for a 30-pin (just in case) connector that only goes
one way, with space for some nice printed messages for advertising.
It's irrelevant. No one makes products just for the UK, so the EU law
would prevail here anyway, even if it wasn't legally required here.
I think you are mistaken. Why else spend a lot of money consulting ?
Post by Andrew Gabriel
Some other EU initiatives I would like to see here are all rechargeable
batteries must be user-replaceable, and all portable tools must use the
same format interchangeable rechargeable batteries.
It's amazing how many people didn't get the memo about Brexit. If teh EU
are doing it, then the UK cannot. It's that simple.
Why else did we have a referendum ?
To promote Bojo's ambition to get into number 10. Nothing else
mattered to him.
Joe
2024-10-17 18:49:35 UTC
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On Thu, 17 Oct 2024 19:35:56 +0100
Post by Andrew
Post by Jethro_uk
Post by Andrew Gabriel
Post by Jethro_uk
A Brexit freedom, yay.
What would folk here prefer ?
https://www.theregister.com/2024/10/14/uk_usbc_charging_standard/
I think if we go for a 30-pin (just in case) connector that only
goes one way, with space for some nice printed messages for
advertising.
It's irrelevant. No one makes products just for the UK, so the EU
law would prevail here anyway, even if it wasn't legally required
here.
I think you are mistaken. Why else spend a lot of money consulting ?
Post by Andrew Gabriel
Some other EU initiatives I would like to see here are all
rechargeable batteries must be user-replaceable, and all portable
tools must use the same format interchangeable rechargeable
batteries.
It's amazing how many people didn't get the memo about Brexit. If
teh EU are doing it, then the UK cannot. It's that simple.
Why else did we have a referendum ?
To promote Bojo's ambition to get into number 10. Nothing else
mattered to him.
It was Cameron who called it, secure in the knowledge that it would
fail. BoJo was brought in to make it happen, as Cameron had been
immediately yanked off the pitch and it was obvious that May's heart
wasn't in it.
--
Joe
GB
2024-10-16 10:32:08 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by Andrew Gabriel
Post by Jethro_uk
A Brexit freedom, yay.
What would folk here prefer ?
https://www.theregister.com/2024/10/14/uk_usbc_charging_standard/
I think if we go for a 30-pin (just in case) connector that only goes one
way, with space for some nice printed messages for advertising.
It's irrelevant. No one makes products just for the UK, so the EU law
would prevail here anyway, even if it wasn't legally required here.
Some other EU initiatives I would like to see here are all rechargeable
batteries must be user-replaceable, and all portable tools must use the
same format interchangeable rechargeable batteries.
Such laws would interfere with our right to be royally fucked by
manufacturers. That's just part of the freedom that the Brexiteers have
won us.
Jethro_uk
2024-10-16 10:42:23 UTC
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Post by GB
Post by Andrew Gabriel
Post by Jethro_uk
A Brexit freedom, yay.
What would folk here prefer ?
https://www.theregister.com/2024/10/14/uk_usbc_charging_standard/
I think if we go for a 30-pin (just in case) connector that only goes
one way, with space for some nice printed messages for advertising.
It's irrelevant. No one makes products just for the UK, so the EU law
would prevail here anyway, even if it wasn't legally required here.
Some other EU initiatives I would like to see here are all rechargeable
batteries must be user-replaceable, and all portable tools must use the
same format interchangeable rechargeable batteries.
Such laws would interfere with our right to be royally fucked by
manufacturers. That's just part of the freedom that the Brexiteers have
won us.
Indeed. the new iPhone 17 with "UK only" charging cable at 3x what the EU
pay for it being a clear win.
The Natural Philosopher
2024-10-16 18:28:49 UTC
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That's just part of the freedom that the Brexiteers have won us.
Chris still moaning 8 years later.
--
It is the folly of too many to mistake the echo of a London coffee-house
for the voice of the kingdom.

Jonathan Swift
GB
2024-10-17 16:35:24 UTC
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Post by The Natural Philosopher
That's just part of the freedom that the Brexiteers have won us.
Chris still moaning 8 years later.
:)
Adam Funk
2024-10-16 10:44:35 UTC
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Post by Andrew Gabriel
Post by Jethro_uk
A Brexit freedom, yay.
What would folk here prefer ?
https://www.theregister.com/2024/10/14/uk_usbc_charging_standard/
I think if we go for a 30-pin (just in case) connector that only goes one
way, with space for some nice printed messages for advertising.
It's irrelevant. No one makes products just for the UK, so the EU law
would prevail here anyway, even if it wasn't legally required here.
Some other EU initiatives I would like to see here are all rechargeable
batteries must be user-replaceable, and all portable tools must use the
same format interchangeable rechargeable batteries.
I'm definitely in favour of both of those.
John Rumm
2024-10-16 12:17:07 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by Andrew Gabriel
Post by Jethro_uk
A Brexit freedom, yay.
What would folk here prefer ?
https://www.theregister.com/2024/10/14/uk_usbc_charging_standard/
I think if we go for a 30-pin (just in case) connector that only goes one
way, with space for some nice printed messages for advertising.
It's irrelevant. No one makes products just for the UK, so the EU law
would prevail here anyway, even if it wasn't legally required here.
Some other EU initiatives I would like to see here are all rechargeable
batteries must be user-replaceable, and all portable tools must use the
same format interchangeable rechargeable batteries.
The former, certainly. The latter is a good idea, but has significant
problems of how to get there from here...

The Ceenr / PD Nation effort seems to be the closest we have at the
moment, but that is a third party effort with a standard battery and
then multiple interface shells that clip on top to match the tool.

Assuming they are making reasonably high end batteries, then you can
probably get satisfactory performance from most tools. Ideally though it
would be good if they can charge from the tools specific chargers as well.

The big name makers could probably devise a way to "split" their own
batteries in the same way so that the interface can be swapped - but
there are likely some platforms where the interface is not going to be
form factor compatible with other brands of battery.

The (unlikely) alternative would be them all finally agreeing on a
standard platform, which then requires them all to adopt a new
interface. That then has a big negative impact on existing owners that
their current battery platform then becomes obsolete.

I can also see issues with low cost tool brands shipping "universal"
batteries that in theory fit other brands but can't deliver the
performance.
--
Cheers,

John.

/=================================================================\
| Internode Ltd - http://www.internode.co.uk |
|-----------------------------------------------------------------|
| John Rumm - john(at)internode(dot)co(dot)uk |
\=================================================================/
Theo
2024-10-16 13:37:42 UTC
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Post by John Rumm
The big name makers could probably devise a way to "split" their own
batteries in the same way so that the interface can be swapped - but
there are likely some platforms where the interface is not going to be
form factor compatible with other brands of battery.
The (unlikely) alternative would be them all finally agreeing on a
standard platform, which then requires them all to adopt a new
interface. That then has a big negative impact on existing owners that
their current battery platform then becomes obsolete.
I can also see issues with low cost tool brands shipping "universal"
batteries that in theory fit other brands but can't deliver the
performance.
It sounds like they need to quote 'Cold Cranking Amps' as well as voltage
and capacity. One of the issues with using adapters is that you add
additional resistance which reduces the CCA (or maybe Warm CA) so higher
power tools don't perform as well.

But there's a tendency for batteries to go higher voltage - 40/56/60/72v,
with each manufacturer picking something different. That makes it more of a
headache to settle on a standard specification.

Theo
Andy Burns
2024-10-16 13:52:10 UTC
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Post by Theo
It sounds like they need to quote 'Cold Cranking Amps' as well as voltage
and capacity. One of the issues with using adapters is that you add
additional resistance which reduces the CCA (or maybe Warm CA) so higher
power tools don't perform as well.
I can certainly think of a couple of youtubers who do tool tests, one
does show you lose performance when using e.g. makita->dewalt adapters,
the other slated the "generic battery fits multiple tools" due to crappy
charging arrangements and the tools kept cutting out.
The Natural Philosopher
2024-10-16 18:26:25 UTC
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Post by Andrew Gabriel
Post by Jethro_uk
A Brexit freedom, yay.
What would folk here prefer ?
https://www.theregister.com/2024/10/14/uk_usbc_charging_standard/
I think if we go for a 30-pin (just in case) connector that only goes one
way, with space for some nice printed messages for advertising.
It's irrelevant. No one makes products just for the UK, so the EU law
would prevail here anyway, even if it wasn't legally required here.
Some other EU initiatives I would like to see here are all rechargeable
batteries must be user-replaceable,
maybe

and all portable tools must use the
Post by Andrew Gabriel
same format interchangeable rechargeable batteries.
Bad idea. Inside they all did anyway in the days of NiCD and NiMh. Sub C

Easy enough to replace.

But since manufacturers tools vary widely on power and voltage a
standard that allowed them to interchange is just asking for trouble
--
Climate is what you expect but weather is what you get.
Mark Twain
Andy Burns
2024-10-16 10:30:43 UTC
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Post by Jethro_uk
What would folk here prefer ?
We ought to be able to get away with doing nothing, manufacturers aren't
likely to produce UK specific models that are non-USB.
Jethro_uk
2024-10-16 10:43:50 UTC
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Post by Andy Burns
Post by Jethro_uk
What would folk here prefer ?
We ought to be able to get away with doing nothing, manufacturers aren't
likely to produce UK specific models that are non-USB.
But, but, but SOVEREIGNTY !!!!!

It is intolerable that having left the EU, the UK has to suffer their
meddling with free trade by having "standards". Really.
Andy Burns
2024-10-16 10:46:20 UTC
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Post by Jethro_uk
Post by Andy Burns
We ought to be able to get away with doing nothing, manufacturers aren't
likely to produce UK specific models that are non-USB.
But, but, but SOVEREIGNTY !!!!!
It is intolerable that having left the EU, the UK has to suffer their
meddling with free trade by having "standards". Really.
Best of both worlds ... most things are going to be USB, but nobody's
going to get prosecuted for selling things powered by a DC barrel jack.
The Natural Philosopher
2024-10-16 18:28:00 UTC
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Post by Andy Burns
Post by Jethro_uk
What would folk here prefer ?
We ought to be able to get away with doing nothing, manufacturers aren't
likely to produce UK specific models that are non-USB.
Precisely.

Its a complete non issue. We don't need a Brussels committee to propose
and the UK to pass into law what everybody is doing anyway.
Useless fucking EU.
--
Climate is what you expect but weather is what you get.
Mark Twain
Jeff Gaines
2024-10-16 10:59:57 UTC
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Post by Jethro_uk
A Brexit freedom, yay.
What would folk here prefer ?
https://www.theregister.com/2024/10/14/uk_usbc_charging_standard/
I think if we go for a 30-pin (just in case) connector that only goes one
way, with space for some nice printed messages for advertising.
Why would we limit ourselves to what the EU is doing? If it becomes a
world standard (i.e. follow the USA) there will be some cost benefits.
--
Jeff Gaines Dorset UK
Indecision is the key to flexibility
Theo
2024-10-16 11:04:52 UTC
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Post by Jethro_uk
A Brexit freedom, yay.
What would folk here prefer ?
https://www.theregister.com/2024/10/14/uk_usbc_charging_standard/
I think if we go for a 30-pin (just in case) connector that only goes one
way, with space for some nice printed messages for advertising.
The UK mains plug is world beating (especially if they step on it). Why not
reuse a design classic that has stood the test of time?

5V at 13A should be enough to charge most mobiles.
Maybe switchable to 240V at 13A for 'fast charging'?
John Rumm
2024-10-16 11:28:15 UTC
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Post by Jethro_uk
A Brexit freedom, yay.
What would folk here prefer ?
That UK legislators don't bother wasting time on stuff that will be
decided by markets now that they have been "nudged" by rules elsewhere.
--
Cheers,

John.

/=================================================================\
| Internode Ltd - http://www.internode.co.uk |
|-----------------------------------------------------------------|
| John Rumm - john(at)internode(dot)co(dot)uk |
\=================================================================/
Another John
2024-10-16 14:47:57 UTC
Reply
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Post by John Rumm
Post by Jethro_uk
What would folk here prefer ?
That UK legislators don't bother wasting time on stuff that will be
decided by markets now that they have been "nudged" by rules elsewhere.
"wasting time - and _money_ - don't forget the money John!

Who the hell [in the new UK Government] suggested this? Did they cave to the
ubiquitous lobbyists? Why don't they have the gonads, these, people to dismiss
things like this out of hand? They're supposed to be governing, not running
round saying "Is this alright, anyone?"

[I am liking the general tone of this discussion, as in: a 12-year-old can see
the answer, so why are the grownups even giving it a second thought? (But
most of us* always said the same about Brexit, heavy sigh, head in hands,
etc.)]

John

* "us" meaning anyone with a brain worthy of someone over the age of 11).
Tim Streater
2024-10-16 15:35:08 UTC
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Post by Another John
[I am liking the general tone of this discussion, as in: a 12-year-old can see
the answer, so why are the grownups even giving it a second thought? (But
most of us* always said the same about Brexit, heavy sigh, head in hands,
etc.)]
Oh dear. Still sulking are we? As I said before, consider who voted for Ursula
to be the head honcho. Answer: no one, and that would have included us if we'd
still been a member. Who has any idea what the selection process was? Answer -
none of the plebs she's now "President" of. Who has any idea why there were no
other candidates? Same answer.

Such a process may be alright in the good times, but there are no checks and
balances and so it's wide open to being subverted by bad actors. THAT is why
we left. And see my sig below.

Some of you need to get a fucking clue instead of bleating about charging
connectors.
--
For me leaving the EU has always been a fundamental if abstract question of democratic accountability: disliking a transnational government it's impossible to kick out.

Iain Martin - The Times 24/11/2022
The Natural Philosopher
2024-10-16 18:34:45 UTC
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Post by Tim Streater
Some of you need to get a fucking clue instead of bleating about charging
connectors
Precisely.

There are international standards de facto and designed that are nothing
to do with the EU (thank Clapton) and never will be.

They simply have nothing to do but bleat on about 'harmonisation' when
they ought to be giving billions back to arms manufacturers to build
shells fio Ukraine.

I am surprised they didn't create an entirely *new* connector and
specify that no [phone imported into Europe that didn't use it would be
sold.

If Nokia still existed they probably would have.

And they STILL havent really standardised mains electricity plugs.
Or made them very safe.
--
There is nothing a fleet of dispatchable nuclear power plants cannot do
that cannot be done worse and more expensively and with higher carbon
emissions and more adverse environmental impact by adding intermittent
renewable energy.
jon
2024-10-16 18:47:53 UTC
Reply
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Post by The Natural Philosopher
Post by Tim Streater
Some of you need to get a fucking clue instead of bleating about
charging connectors
Precisely.
There are international standards de facto and designed that are nothing
to do with the EU (thank Clapton) and never will be.
They simply have nothing to do but bleat on about 'harmonisation' when
they ought to be giving billions back to arms manufacturers to build
shells fio Ukraine.
I am surprised they didn't create an entirely *new* connector and
specify that no [phone imported into Europe that didn't use it would be
sold.
If Nokia still existed they probably would have.
And they STILL havent really standardised mains electricity plugs.
Or made them very safe.
My Microsoft/Nokia Lumia 950XL was fitted with USBc in 2016
Andy Burns
2024-10-16 19:06:52 UTC
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Post by jon
My Microsoft/Nokia Lumia 950XL was fitted with USBc in 2016
My nokia N1 tablet the year before (shame that thing never received any
updates)
Bob Martin
2024-10-17 05:43:16 UTC
Reply
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Post by Tim Streater
Post by Another John
[I am liking the general tone of this discussion, as in: a 12-year-old can see
the answer, so why are the grownups even giving it a second thought? (But
most of us* always said the same about Brexit, heavy sigh, head in hands,
etc.)]
Oh dear. Still sulking are we? As I said before, consider who voted for Ursula
to be the head honcho. Answer: no one, and that would have included us if we'd
still been a member. Who has any idea what the selection process was? Answer -
none of the plebs she's now "President" of. Who has any idea why there were no
other candidates? Same answer.
Such a process may be alright in the good times, but there are no checks and
balances and so it's wide open to being subverted by bad actors. THAT is why
we left. And see my sig below.
Some of you need to get a fucking clue instead of bleating about charging
connectors.
Says the moron who supports the party that elected Johnson and Truss as leader.
alan_m
2024-10-17 07:43:41 UTC
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Post by Bob Martin
Says the moron who supports the party that elected Johnson and Truss as leader.
Possibly history will show that they were both better than Keir Starmer.
--
mailto : news {at} admac {dot} myzen {dot} co {dot} uk
Jeff Gaines
2024-10-16 16:39:27 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by John Rumm
Post by Jethro_uk
What would folk here prefer ?
That UK legislators don't bother wasting time on stuff that will be
decided by markets now that they have been "nudged" by rules elsewhere.
"wasting time - and money - don't forget the money John!
Who the hell [in the new UK Government] suggested this? Did they cave to the
ubiquitous lobbyists? Why don't they have the gonads, these, people to dismiss
things like this out of hand? They're supposed to be governing, not running
round saying "Is this alright, anyone?"
[I am liking the general tone of this discussion, as in: a 12-year-old can see
the answer, so why are the grownups even giving it a second thought? (But
most of us* always said the same about Brexit, heavy sigh, head in hands,
etc.)]
John
* "us" meaning anyone with a brain worthy of someone over the age of 11).
Surely if there is going to be a commonly adopted standard it would be
sensible for us to support i?

Nothing to do with Brexit, why do you think it is?
--
Jeff Gaines Dorset UK
Here we go it's getting close, now it's just who wants it most.
Andy Burns
2024-10-16 17:55:32 UTC
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Post by Jeff Gaines
Surely if there is going to be a commonly adopted standard it would be
sensible for us to support i[t]?
There's a large enough number of counties mandating USB, that it doesn't
need anyone else to support it ... Apple didn't really want it on
phones, but even they've gone along with it globally*.


[*] there are some countries where you can't buy a USB iPhone, because
they don't sell the latest models there yet.
Jethro_uk
2024-10-16 16:05:49 UTC
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Post by John Rumm
Post by Jethro_uk
A Brexit freedom, yay.
What would folk here prefer ?
That UK legislators don't bother wasting time on stuff that will be
decided by markets now that they have been "nudged" by rules elsewhere.
So why on earth is there a consultation on it ?

https://ditresearch.eu.qualtrics.com/jfe/form/SV_3EEmlpzlDZkaZfM
GB
2024-10-16 16:28:24 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by Jethro_uk
Post by John Rumm
Post by Jethro_uk
A Brexit freedom, yay.
What would folk here prefer ?
That UK legislators don't bother wasting time on stuff that will be
decided by markets now that they have been "nudged" by rules elsewhere.
So why on earth is there a consultation on it ?
Is this one of those cases where it's less trouble to have the
consultation than to not have it?
Post by Jethro_uk
https://ditresearch.eu.qualtrics.com/jfe/form/SV_3EEmlpzlDZkaZfM
Andy Burns
2024-10-16 17:58:56 UTC
Reply
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Post by Jethro_uk
Post by John Rumm
That UK legislators don't bother wasting time on stuff that will be
decided by markets now that they have been "nudged" by rules elsewhere.
So why on earth is there a consultation on it ?
Because half the parents on the street being interviewed don't realise
the EU has already chosen USB-C, they don't realise the rest of the
world has gone along with it, they don't realise that most of the phones
in their house already have it.
The Natural Philosopher
2024-10-16 18:36:11 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by Jethro_uk
Post by John Rumm
Post by Jethro_uk
A Brexit freedom, yay.
What would folk here prefer ?
That UK legislators don't bother wasting time on stuff that will be
decided by markets now that they have been "nudged" by rules elsewhere.
So why on earth is there a consultation on it ?
https://ditresearch.eu.qualtrics.com/jfe/form/SV_3EEmlpzlDZkaZfM
It's called displacement action. No one knows what to do about anything
more important, but if they dont look busy they might lose their jobs
--
“The fundamental cause of the trouble in the modern world today is that
the stupid are cocksure while the intelligent are full of doubt."

- Bertrand Russell
Max Demian
2024-10-16 12:48:21 UTC
Reply
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Post by Jethro_uk
A Brexit freedom, yay.
What would folk here prefer ?
https://www.theregister.com/2024/10/14/uk_usbc_charging_standard/
I think if we go for a 30-pin (just in case) connector that only goes one
way, with space for some nice printed messages for advertising.
'However, the agency notes that having USB-C as a common charging port
should mean that one charger will work for multiple devices. It may also
allow manufacturers to "unbundle" the sale of a charger, meaning that
consumers have the option to purchase new devices without a charger.'

The same applied when all the phones/tablets had micro-USB-B.

At least with USB-C you can stick it in either way round (as the actress
said to the bishop).
--
Max Demian
Another John
2024-10-16 14:48:50 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by Max Demian
At least with USB-C you can stick it in either way round (as the actress
said to the bishop).
Wahey! :-D
Chris Green
2024-10-16 15:20:13 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by Max Demian
The same applied when all the phones/tablets had micro-USB-B.
At least with USB-C you can stick it in either way round (as the actress
said to the bishop).
There have been reversible micro-B leads around for years, I never
anything else.
--
Chris Green
·
John R Walliker
2024-10-16 16:03:46 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by Chris Green
Post by Max Demian
The same applied when all the phones/tablets had micro-USB-B.
At least with USB-C you can stick it in either way round (as the actress
said to the bishop).
There have been reversible micro-B leads around for years, I never
anything else.
The thing that puzzles me about Apple objecting to USB-C is that
they were leading members of the committee that designed the
interface.
John
HVS
2024-10-17 13:27:14 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by Max Demian
Post by Jethro_uk
A Brexit freedom, yay.
What would folk here prefer ?
https://www.theregister.com/2024/10/14/uk_usbc_charging_standard/
I think if we go for a 30-pin (just in case) connector that only
goes one way, with space for some nice printed messages for
advertising.
'However, the agency notes that having USB-C as a common charging
port should mean that one charger will work for multiple devices.
It may also allow manufacturers to "unbundle" the sale of a
charger, meaning that consumers have the option to purchase new
devices without a charger.'
The same applied when all the phones/tablets had micro-USB-B.
At least with USB-C you can stick it in either way round (as the
actress said to the bishop).
That'll kill off the line about the funeral of the guy who designed
the original USB-B connection...
alan_m
2024-10-16 19:08:22 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by Jethro_uk
A Brexit freedom, yay.
What would folk here prefer ?
https://www.theregister.com/2024/10/14/uk_usbc_charging_standard/
I think if we go for a 30-pin (just in case) connector that only goes one
way, with space for some nice printed messages for advertising.
Brexit doesn't mean we have to be different nor does it mean that we
cannot follow others if it make sense to do so.
--
mailto : news {at} admac {dot} myzen {dot} co {dot} uk
Tim Streater
2024-10-16 19:58:28 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by alan_m
Post by Jethro_uk
A Brexit freedom, yay.
What would folk here prefer ?
https://www.theregister.com/2024/10/14/uk_usbc_charging_standard/
I think if we go for a 30-pin (just in case) connector that only goes one
way, with space for some nice printed messages for advertising.
Brexit doesn't mean we have to be different nor does it mean that we
cannot follow others if it make sense to do so.
Quite so.
--
Give a man a fire and he's warm for a day, but set fire to him and he's warm for the rest of his life.

Terry Pratchett
The Natural Philosopher
2024-10-16 20:26:49 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by alan_m
Post by Jethro_uk
A Brexit freedom, yay.
What would folk here prefer ?
https://www.theregister.com/2024/10/14/uk_usbc_charging_standard/
I think if we go for a 30-pin (just in case) connector that only goes one
way, with space for some nice printed messages for advertising.
Brexit doesn't mean we have to be different nor does it mean that we
cannot follow others if it make sense to do so.
*applause*.

Remoaners seemed to thing we would abandon the Metric system and
arbitrarily change every useful standard just for the sake of it.
No, that's the EUs job. That's why we left.
--
"A point of view can be a dangerous luxury when substituted for insight
and understanding".

Marshall McLuhan
pinnerite
2024-10-16 19:23:01 UTC
Reply
Permalink
On Wed, 16 Oct 2024 09:44:29 -0000 (UTC)
Post by Jethro_uk
A Brexit freedom, yay.
What would folk here prefer ?
https://www.theregister.com/2024/10/14/uk_usbc_charging_standard/
I think if we go for a 30-pin (just in case) connector that only goes one
way, with space for some nice printed messages for advertising.
I am still mad at the British authorities for going their own way with the BT telephone connectors instead of the near-universal RJ-45.

USB-C would suit me fine.

Alan
--
Linux Mint 21.3 kernel version 5.15.0-124-generic Cinnamon 6.0.4
AMD Ryzen 7 7700, Radeon RX 6600, 32GB DDR5, 1TB SSD, 2TB Barracuda
Tim Streater
2024-10-16 19:59:10 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by pinnerite
On Wed, 16 Oct 2024 09:44:29 -0000 (UTC)
Post by Jethro_uk
A Brexit freedom, yay.
What would folk here prefer ?
https://www.theregister.com/2024/10/14/uk_usbc_charging_standard/
I think if we go for a 30-pin (just in case) connector that only goes one
way, with space for some nice printed messages for advertising.
I am still mad at the British authorities for going their own way with the BT
telephone connectors instead of the near-universal RJ-45.
Made no sense whatever.
--
First, find out who are the people you can not criticise. They are your oppressors. - George Orwell
Tim Lamb
2024-10-17 08:03:28 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by Tim Streater
Post by pinnerite
On Wed, 16 Oct 2024 09:44:29 -0000 (UTC)
Post by Jethro_uk
A Brexit freedom, yay.
What would folk here prefer ?
https://www.theregister.com/2024/10/14/uk_usbc_charging_standard/
I think if we go for a 30-pin (just in case) connector that only goes one
way, with space for some nice printed messages for advertising.
I am still mad at the British authorities for going their own way with the BT
telephone connectors instead of the near-universal RJ-45.
Made no sense whatever.
I suppose it limited the opportunities for the technologically
illiterate to cross connect services.
--
Tim Lamb
nib
2024-10-17 08:43:53 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by Tim Lamb
Post by Tim Streater
Post by pinnerite
On Wed, 16 Oct 2024 09:44:29 -0000 (UTC)
Post by Jethro_uk
A Brexit freedom, yay.
What would folk here prefer ?
https://www.theregister.com/2024/10/14/uk_usbc_charging_standard/
I think if we go for a 30-pin (just in case) connector that only goes one
way, with space for some nice printed messages for advertising.
I am still mad at the British authorities for going their own way with the BT
telephone connectors instead of the near-universal RJ-45.
Made no sense whatever.
I suppose it limited the opportunities for the technologically
illiterate to cross connect services.
I think we almost got there already with phones, tablets, &c, with
mini-USB, micro-USB, USB-C and Lightning over the years covering nearly
all, and lots of it 5V as well. But it's the huge variety of other
things with their barrel connectors of all sorts of voltages and either
polarity that could so easily have standardised, and for me it's those
that form the bulk of the crate of chargers that have to be labelled so
they can be matched to their equipment.

nib
Chris Green
2024-10-17 09:12:52 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by nib
Post by Tim Lamb
Post by Tim Streater
Post by pinnerite
On Wed, 16 Oct 2024 09:44:29 -0000 (UTC)
Post by Jethro_uk
A Brexit freedom, yay.
What would folk here prefer ?
https://www.theregister.com/2024/10/14/uk_usbc_charging_standard/
I think if we go for a 30-pin (just in case) connector that only goes one
way, with space for some nice printed messages for advertising.
I am still mad at the British authorities for going their own way with the BT
telephone connectors instead of the near-universal RJ-45.
Made no sense whatever.
I suppose it limited the opportunities for the technologically
illiterate to cross connect services.
I think we almost got there already with phones, tablets, &c, with
mini-USB, micro-USB, USB-C and Lightning over the years covering nearly
all, and lots of it 5V as well. But it's the huge variety of other
things with their barrel connectors of all sorts of voltages and either
polarity that could so easily have standardised, and for me it's those
that form the bulk of the crate of chargers that have to be labelled so
they can be matched to their equipment.
However USB 3.x and USB-C connectors are going the same way, there's
a large variety of different enhancements which may or may not be
available on any particular USB-C connector. In particular there's a
whole raft of higher voltages (i.e. more than 5v) and higher currents
that the two ends can negotiate. It should always negotiate to the
right place but I'm always a bit worried when 12v and even 20v might
appear.
--
Chris Green
·
Tim Streater
2024-10-17 09:24:51 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by nib
Post by Tim Lamb
Post by Tim Streater
Post by pinnerite
On Wed, 16 Oct 2024 09:44:29 -0000 (UTC)
Post by Jethro_uk
A Brexit freedom, yay.
What would folk here prefer ?
https://www.theregister.com/2024/10/14/uk_usbc_charging_standard/
I think if we go for a 30-pin (just in case) connector that only
goes one way, with space for some nice printed messages for
advertising.
I am still mad at the British authorities for going their own way
with the BT telephone connectors instead of the near-universal RJ-45.
Made no sense whatever.
I suppose it limited the opportunities for the technologically
illiterate to cross connect services.
I think we almost got there already with phones, tablets, &c, with
mini-USB, micro-USB, USB-C and Lightning over the years covering nearly
all, and lots of it 5V as well. But it's the huge variety of other
things with their barrel connectors of all sorts of voltages and either
polarity that could so easily have standardised, and for me it's those
that form the bulk of the crate of chargers that have to be labelled so
they can be matched to their equipment.
Once you own a couple of 13A plugs with a USB-A socket on them providing 5V
for charging, that's all you need. One of those can charge my now-retired
iPhone 6, my back-in-service Doro mobile, and my 10 year old Pentax DSLR. Not
my 10-year old MacBook Air, though, but that does have a MagSafe connector
which is in any case a far better concept than the USB-C.
--
"That which can be asserted without evidence, can be dismissed without evidence."
-- Christopher Hitchens
nib
2024-10-17 09:51:03 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by Tim Streater
Post by nib
Post by Tim Lamb
Post by Tim Streater
Post by pinnerite
On Wed, 16 Oct 2024 09:44:29 -0000 (UTC)
Post by Jethro_uk
A Brexit freedom, yay.
What would folk here prefer ?
https://www.theregister.com/2024/10/14/uk_usbc_charging_standard/
I think if we go for a 30-pin (just in case) connector that only
goes one way, with space for some nice printed messages for
advertising.
I am still mad at the British authorities for going their own way
with the BT telephone connectors instead of the near-universal RJ-45.
Made no sense whatever.
I suppose it limited the opportunities for the technologically
illiterate to cross connect services.
I think we almost got there already with phones, tablets, &c, with
mini-USB, micro-USB, USB-C and Lightning over the years covering nearly
all, and lots of it 5V as well. But it's the huge variety of other
things with their barrel connectors of all sorts of voltages and either
polarity that could so easily have standardised, and for me it's those
that form the bulk of the crate of chargers that have to be labelled so
they can be matched to their equipment.
Once you own a couple of 13A plugs with a USB-A socket on them providing 5V
for charging, that's all you need. One of those can charge my now-retired
iPhone 6, my back-in-service Doro mobile, and my 10 year old Pentax DSLR. Not
my 10-year old MacBook Air, though, but that does have a MagSafe connector
which is in any case a far better concept than the USB-C.
Yes, lots of those too, but they each (well most of mine) have a unique
cable USB-A to device, that is separate and can get lost, and probably
needs labelling too. For me that's watches, electric shavers,
toothbrushes, electronic toys, ... The ones that need charging rarely
are the worst!

nib
John Rumm
2024-10-17 01:30:06 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by pinnerite
On Wed, 16 Oct 2024 09:44:29 -0000 (UTC)
Post by Jethro_uk
A Brexit freedom, yay.
What would folk here prefer ?
https://www.theregister.com/2024/10/14/uk_usbc_charging_standard/
I think if we go for a 30-pin (just in case) connector that only goes one
way, with space for some nice printed messages for advertising.
I am still mad at the British authorities for going their own way with the BT telephone connectors instead of the near-universal RJ-45.
I thought most countries used RJ11 for phone... (RJ45 for ethernet)?
--
Cheers,

John.

/=================================================================\
| Internode Ltd - http://www.internode.co.uk |
|-----------------------------------------------------------------|
| John Rumm - john(at)internode(dot)co(dot)uk |
\=================================================================/
Theo
2024-10-17 10:06:27 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by pinnerite
On Wed, 16 Oct 2024 09:44:29 -0000 (UTC)
Post by Jethro_uk
A Brexit freedom, yay.
What would folk here prefer ?
https://www.theregister.com/2024/10/14/uk_usbc_charging_standard/
I think if we go for a 30-pin (just in case) connector that only goes one
way, with space for some nice printed messages for advertising.
I am still mad at the British authorities for going their own way with the
BT telephone connectors instead of the near-universal RJ-45.
That was deliberate, wasn't it? Phones had to be 'BABT Approved', in case
they blew up the exchange or something. Control supply of the plugs, stop
unapproved stuff being plugged in. Especially not that Hong Kong or
Japanese junk.

I recall going to a backstreet phone shop with an 'unapproved' phone that
somebody from abroad had carried in their luggage. It was all nudge nudge
'well this is not allowed, but ...' - they swapped the cord for one with a
BT plug.

I don't remember if the 'BABT Approved' thing was also a wheeze by which the
market price was kept high so people would continue to rent phones from BT.
Anyone remember?

Theo
Jethro_uk
2024-10-17 10:14:32 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by Theo
I recall going to a backstreet phone shop with an 'unapproved' phone
that somebody from abroad had carried in their luggage. It was all
nudge nudge 'well this is not allowed, but ...' - they swapped the cord
for one with a BT plug.
My Dad acquired a PABX phone from his work and wired it in as an
extension. Not being British, he was less than impressed by the minimum 6
month wait,plus extortionate charge for an approved one.

We were told at the time that a 6 month wait was actually greased
lightning compared to some areas. But that was the 70s for you.
Jeff Gaines
2024-10-17 10:53:13 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by Jethro_uk
Post by Theo
I recall going to a backstreet phone shop with an 'unapproved' phone
that somebody from abroad had carried in their luggage. It was all
nudge nudge 'well this is not allowed, but ...' - they swapped the cord
for one with a BT plug.
My Dad acquired a PABX phone from his work and wired it in as an
extension. Not being British, he was less than impressed by the minimum 6
month wait,plus extortionate charge for an approved one.
We were told at the time that a 6 month wait was actually greased
lightning compared to some areas. But that was the 70s for you.
Proof, if proof is needed, that privatisation works.
--
Jeff Gaines Dorset UK
Every day is a good day for chicken, unless you're a chicken.
charles
2024-10-17 11:30:02 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by Jeff Gaines
Post by Jethro_uk
Post by Theo
I recall going to a backstreet phone shop with an 'unapproved' phone
that somebody from abroad had carried in their luggage. It was all
nudge nudge 'well this is not allowed, but ...' - they swapped the cord
for one with a BT plug.
My Dad acquired a PABX phone from his work and wired it in as an
extension. Not being British, he was less than impressed by the minimum 6
month wait,plus extortionate charge for an approved one.
We were told at the time that a 6 month wait was actually greased
lightning compared to some areas. But that was the 70s for you.
Proof, if proof is needed, that privatisation works.
as Royal Mail and Thames Water amongst others, now demonstrate.
--
from KT24 in Surrey, England - sent from my RISC OS 4té²
"I'd rather die of exhaustion than die of boredom" Thomas Carlyle
Tim Streater
2024-10-17 12:17:39 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by charles
Post by Jeff Gaines
Post by Jethro_uk
Post by Theo
I recall going to a backstreet phone shop with an 'unapproved' phone
that somebody from abroad had carried in their luggage. It was all
nudge nudge 'well this is not allowed, but ...' - they swapped the cord
for one with a BT plug.
My Dad acquired a PABX phone from his work and wired it in as an
extension. Not being British, he was less than impressed by the minimum 6
month wait,plus extortionate charge for an approved one.
We were told at the time that a 6 month wait was actually greased
lightning compared to some areas. But that was the 70s for you.
Proof, if proof is needed, that privatisation works.
as Royal Mail and Thames Water amongst others, now demonstrate.
Something I'm trying to understand is the extent to which the water companies
have much control over the sewage dumping business. We know, or we ought to
know, that there's only one set of pipes in some? most? all? areas [2] which
act as sewage pipes but also as storm drains [1]. If you get a sudden huge
downpour then this system can be overwhelmed and they have to dump the
contents. Now, how many of the public know this? None? Some? All? The way it's
all reported you could easily get the impression that the water companies are
just doing it for fun.

Can anyone shed any light on this?

[1] Also worth noting is that the decision to do this was taken in Victorian
times when it may have seemed a reasonable cost savings measure.

[2] I'm told that in Whitstable the storm drains are largely separate from the
sewage system. Is this common or uncommon?
--
"I love the way that Microsoft follows standards. In much the same manner as fish follow migrating caribou."
- Paul Tomblin, ASR
Theo
2024-10-17 12:38:40 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by Tim Streater
Something I'm trying to understand is the extent to which the water companies
have much control over the sewage dumping business. We know, or we ought to
know, that there's only one set of pipes in some? most? all? areas [2] which
act as sewage pipes but also as storm drains [1]. If you get a sudden huge
downpour then this system can be overwhelmed and they have to dump the
contents. Now, how many of the public know this? None? Some? All? The way it's
all reported you could easily get the impression that the water companies are
just doing it for fun.
Can anyone shed any light on this?
IANA drainage engineer but AIUI it's because they haven't been investing in
infrastructure, ie building new treatment plants. A new housing estate gets
built, NNNN new houses discharge into the same sewerage network as before.
All of a sudden the sewage works is 'overwhelmed' when it wasn't before.

Also increasingly heavy rainfall from climate change is stressing the system
more than it previously was. Again the water companies should have been
building to cope with that, but they haven't. This is why there can be
localised flooding far away from any rivers etc - the water backs up in the
sewers and then spills out into houses.

It's also possible some treatment plants are closed / offline / reduced
capacity due to lack of investment. I've heard of some specific plants
being closed, but don't have a good insight into whether that would impact
network capacity.

But if you try to get Thames Water to actually do something when you have a
sewerage issue, it's months and months of hassling them and repeatedly
missed deadlines. It's almost as if they just want to do the minimum and
fob you off so they don't have to spend money on their network.

Basically what was the ultimate fallback in case of an extremely rare event
is now used routinely, and the water companies reckoned that was cheaper
than building something to handle it.
Post by Tim Streater
[1] Also worth noting is that the decision to do this was taken in Victorian
times when it may have seemed a reasonable cost savings measure.
[2] I'm told that in Whitstable the storm drains are largely separate from the
sewage system. Is this common or uncommon?
There are street storm drains, and rainwater drains from private gutters.

It's common to have separate storm and foul water drains on new builds in
some areas, but they're combined in older areas. Some properties have
soakaways, but many drain into the foul water system. On clay soils
soakaways are of limited use when the ground is waterlogged, so that
typically drains into the foul water system.

That means it has to take the rainwater load from the NNNN new houses and
drives, streets, etc as well as their bathroom waste, which makes a lot more
pressure on the system.

It's common to have sustainable drainage systems, ie a foetid pond in the
corner of the development, to reduce rainfall load. But it doesn't work so
well in urban settings where the site isn't big enough.

Theo
The Natural Philosopher
2024-10-17 12:40:09 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by Theo
Also increasingly heavy rainfall from climate change
Bless!
--
“it should be clear by now to everyone that activist environmentalism
(or environmental activism) is becoming a general ideology about humans,
about their freedom, about the relationship between the individual and
the state, and about the manipulation of people under the guise of a
'noble' idea. It is not an honest pursuit of 'sustainable development,'
a matter of elementary environmental protection, or a search for
rational mechanisms designed to achieve a healthy environment. Yet
things do occur that make you shake your head and remind yourself that
you live neither in Joseph Stalin’s Communist era, nor in the Orwellian
utopia of 1984.”

Vaclav Klaus
Paul
2024-10-17 16:33:02 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by The Natural Philosopher
Post by Theo
Also increasingly heavy rainfall from climate change
Bless!
One of the first jobs of any sewerage system, is
to separate sanitary sewer from storm sewer.

The work has hardly begun... Many many places on Earth,
if you knew what hell the surface waters had been through,
you'd never drink water ever again :-)

The city I was born in, used to have turds floating in
the harbour. Today, the sewer pipe (ten feed high, twenty
five feed wide) is bricked up, as proof the flow has
stopped. A $500,000,000 plant treats the effluent.
The water is so clean (how clean was it?), they have
small tour boats that take tourists up the harbour.
The tourists are then, no longer repulsed by the smell :-)
Progress.

And they were made to do that, by another level of government,
and... without subsidy. It will take decades to pay off the loan.
Many other cities are faced with the same, a request for a new
standard, no subsidy to make it happen.

That was one of the cities, that had actual drink-able tap water.
It didn't have a smell. It taste good. The water came from
the Chain Lakes. Now, with elevated temperature, weeds grow
in the lake, and the tap water has a smell. (It's not phosphorus,
because there is a boundary around the lake area.) And it's proving
pretty difficult for simple sand filters and chlorine to fix that.
It would take something like activated charcoal, to "fix it"
from a chemistry lab point of view, but there is no intention
of doing that.

You don't know what you have... until it's gone.

Your fresh water could be fouled. Your aquifer, pumped down.
It seems aquifers don't recharge that quickly. In some areas
far from here, with farm irrigation, the level of the land has
sunk many many meters. As a resident there, I think you can
guess how much longer this can go on.

Then you know the *next* thing that happens. "They have water,
let's build a big pipe" :-/

Paul
Tim Streater
2024-10-17 16:41:41 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by Theo
IANA drainage engineer but AIUI it's because they haven't been investing in
infrastructure, ie building new treatment plants. A new housing estate gets
built, NNNN new houses discharge into the same sewerage network as before.
All of a sudden the sewage works is 'overwhelmed' when it wasn't before.
So we should stop new house building until the sewage system catches up.
Post by Theo
Also increasingly heavy rainfall from climate change is stressing the system
more than it previously was. Again the water companies should have been
building to cope with that, but they haven't. This is why there can be
localised flooding far away from any rivers etc - the water backs up in the
sewers and then spills out into houses.
It's also possible some treatment plants are closed / offline / reduced
capacity due to lack of investment. I've heard of some specific plants
being closed, but don't have a good insight into whether that would impact
network capacity.
But if you try to get Thames Water to actually do something when you have a
sewerage issue, it's months and months of hassling them and repeatedly
missed deadlines. It's almost as if they just want to do the minimum and
fob you off so they don't have to spend money on their network.
Basically what was the ultimate fallback in case of an extremely rare event
is now used routinely, and the water companies reckoned that was cheaper
than building something to handle it.
I see some problems here. Firstly this is a crowded island and all land is in
use. Have they been trying to build new treatment works? Does this get held up
by the planning system? After all, who wants to find a sewage works suddenly
plonked next to their house.
--
First, find out who are the people you can not criticise. They are your oppressors. - George Orwell
alan_m
2024-10-17 17:51:20 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by Theo
IANA drainage engineer but AIUI it's because they haven't been investing in
infrastructure, ie building new treatment plants. A new housing estate gets
built, NNNN new houses discharge into the same sewerage network as before.
All of a sudden the sewage works is 'overwhelmed' when it wasn't before.
How many people in the past 40 years have concreted over their front
gardens for car parking and their back gardens for a fashion patio. What
would have previously drained into the ground now runs off into the
sewers or surface water drains.
--
mailto : news {at} admac {dot} myzen {dot} co {dot} uk
Joe
2024-10-17 18:41:37 UTC
Reply
Permalink
On Thu, 17 Oct 2024 18:51:20 +0100
Post by alan_m
Post by Theo
IANA drainage engineer but AIUI it's because they haven't been
investing in infrastructure, ie building new treatment plants. A
new housing estate gets built, NNNN new houses discharge into the
same sewerage network as before. All of a sudden the sewage works
is 'overwhelmed' when it wasn't before.
How many people in the past 40 years have concreted over their front
gardens for car parking and their back gardens for a fashion patio.
What would have previously drained into the ground now runs off into
the sewers or surface water drains.
My garden has a patio, a garage, a concrete drive and a concreted front
because our local council has got into the residents' parking scam.

None of the rain falling on these hard surfaces at ground level ends up
in surface water drains. It all runs off into the surrounding soil,
though various gaps in the concrete. All concreted fronts for decades
have had to drain to a soakaway, not onto the pavement or road surface.
The two surface water drains on our property have raised edgings, so
actual surface water, as opposed to roof water, does not go down them.

Indeed, most of the water falling on our roof surfaces ends up in the
soil during two-thirds of the year, as we have four water butts
collecting from the house roof, three from the garage roof and one
from the shed roof.

The road outside our house occasionally floods. This is due to drains
being blocked by leaves falling from council trees which the council
chooses not to sweep up. Ever. They don't pile up indefinitely as
eventually the leaf mould from the year before breaks up and gets washed
down the drains. Some of them fall on our front area, and there is no
legal way to dispose of them. We cannot collect them and put them
either in our own leaf bin or the paid-for council green waste bin,
because they do not come from our trees. We cannot sweep them off of
our front onto the pavement, as that would be littering.

A number of houses near me have been demolished and two rabbit
hutches built where each stood. A few houses have been built in what
were domestic gardens, and small blocks of flats have been built just
about anywhere possible. As far as I am aware, no new drainage has been
installed to serve all these additional households. So upon this
perennial 'concreted over' excuse trotted out for inadequate public
drainage and maintenance, I call bullshit.
--
Joe
The Natural Philosopher
2024-10-17 12:41:57 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by Tim Streater
Can anyone shed any light on this?
Its all part of the same general problem. Let's spend money on 'social
justice' , the BBC, renewable energy and wokery and immigrants rather on
the houses roads water mains and sewage systems to support them
--
“it should be clear by now to everyone that activist environmentalism
(or environmental activism) is becoming a general ideology about humans,
about their freedom, about the relationship between the individual and
the state, and about the manipulation of people under the guise of a
'noble' idea. It is not an honest pursuit of 'sustainable development,'
a matter of elementary environmental protection, or a search for
rational mechanisms designed to achieve a healthy environment. Yet
things do occur that make you shake your head and remind yourself that
you live neither in Joseph Stalin’s Communist era, nor in the Orwellian
utopia of 1984.”

Vaclav Klaus
Jethro_uk
2024-10-17 15:46:05 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by The Natural Philosopher
[quoted text muted]
Its all part of the same general problem. Let's spend money on 'social
justice' , the BBC, renewable energy and wokery and immigrants rather on
the houses roads water mains and sewage systems to support them
In the case of the water companies, the money went to directors and
shareholders, not the infrastructure.
Tim Streater
2024-10-17 16:35:17 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by Jethro_uk
Post by The Natural Philosopher
[quoted text muted]
Its all part of the same general problem. Let's spend money on 'social
justice' , the BBC, renewable energy and wokery and immigrants rather on
the houses roads water mains and sewage systems to support them
In the case of the water companies, the money went to directors and
shareholders, not the infrastructure.
You'd expect shareholders to get some money. Why else would they invest?
--
First of all, a message to English left-wing journalists and intellectuals generally: 'Do remember that dishonesty and cowardice always have to be paid for. Don't imagine that for years on end you can make yourself the boot-licking propagandist of the Soviet régime, or any other régime, and then suddenly return to mental decency. Once a whore, always a whore.'

George Orwell, 1 Sept 1944
alan_m
2024-10-17 17:53:35 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by Tim Streater
Post by Jethro_uk
Post by The Natural Philosopher
[quoted text muted]
Its all part of the same general problem. Let's spend money on 'social
justice' , the BBC, renewable energy and wokery and immigrants rather on
the houses roads water mains and sewage systems to support them
In the case of the water companies, the money went to directors and
shareholders, not the infrastructure.
You'd expect shareholders to get some money. Why else would they invest?
Probably a lot of the shareholding is from pension funds.
--
mailto : news {at} admac {dot} myzen {dot} co {dot} uk
The Natural Philosopher
2024-10-17 17:20:36 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by Jethro_uk
Post by The Natural Philosopher
[quoted text muted]
Its all part of the same general problem. Let's spend money on 'social
justice' , the BBC, renewable energy and wokery and immigrants rather on
the houses roads water mains and sewage systems to support them
In the case of the water companies, the money went to directors and
shareholders, not the infrastructure.
That is what the money spenton OFWAT was supposed to prevent.
--
Climate Change: Socialism wearing a lab coat.
Jeff Gaines
2024-10-17 13:20:50 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by Tim Streater
Post by charles
Post by Jeff Gaines
Post by Jethro_uk
We were told at the time that a 6 month wait was actually greased
lightning compared to some areas. But that was the 70s for you.
Proof, if proof is needed, that privatisation works.
as Royal Mail and Thames Water amongst others, now demonstrate.
Something I'm trying to understand is the extent to which the water companies
have much control over the sewage dumping business. We know, or we ought to
know, that there's only one set of pipes in some? most? all? areas [2] which
act as sewage pipes but also as storm drains [1]. If you get a sudden huge
downpour then this system can be overwhelmed and they have to dump the
contents. Now, how many of the public know this? None? Some? All? The way it's
all reported you could easily get the impression that the water companies are
just doing it for fun.
Can anyone shed any light on this?
[1] Also worth noting is that the decision to do this was taken in Victorian
times when it may have seemed a reasonable cost savings measure.
[2] I'm told that in Whitstable the storm drains are largely separate from the
sewage system. Is this common or uncommon?
BBC investigation into dumping sewage in Windermere:

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/cdrj70dynk1o
--
Jeff Gaines Dorset UK
If you ever find something you like buy a lifetime supply because they
will stop making it
alan_m
2024-10-17 17:45:02 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by charles
Post by Jeff Gaines
Post by Jethro_uk
Post by Theo
I recall going to a backstreet phone shop with an 'unapproved' phone
that somebody from abroad had carried in their luggage. It was all
nudge nudge 'well this is not allowed, but ...' - they swapped the cord
for one with a BT plug.
My Dad acquired a PABX phone from his work and wired it in as an
extension. Not being British, he was less than impressed by the minimum 6
month wait,plus extortionate charge for an approved one.
We were told at the time that a 6 month wait was actually greased
lightning compared to some areas. But that was the 70s for you.
Proof, if proof is needed, that privatisation works.
as Royal Mail and Thames Water amongst others, now demonstrate.
The water companies were privatised because under public ownership
little investment had been provided for a couple of decades. After
privatisation the companies were beaten around the head to fix the vast
number of leaks mainly caused by the lack of prior investment in the
infrastructure.

Royal Mail is in trouble because under previous management they failed
to modernise in a timely manner which allowed other more efficient
carriers to take and keep a large percentage of the delivery business.

You may consider that under private management they are not doing too
well but consider who bad it would have been under private management
effectively run by politicians who the public reject as incompetent and
corrupt at most general elections.
--
mailto : news {at} admac {dot} myzen {dot} co {dot} uk
alan_m
2024-10-17 16:59:30 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by Jeff Gaines
Post by Jethro_uk
Post by Theo
I recall going to a backstreet phone shop with an 'unapproved' phone
that somebody from abroad had carried in their luggage.  It was all
nudge nudge 'well this is not allowed, but ...' - they swapped the cord
for one with a BT plug.
My Dad acquired a PABX phone from his work and wired it in as an
extension. Not being British, he was less than impressed by the minimum 6
month wait,plus extortionate charge for an approved one.
We were told at the time that a 6 month wait was actually greased
lightning compared to some areas. But that was the 70s for you.
Proof, if proof is needed, that privatisation works.
Many of the UK nationalised or monopoly industries of the 50/60/70s
acted as though they were doing you a favour when accepting you as a
paying customer.
--
mailto : news {at} admac {dot} myzen {dot} co {dot} uk
Jeff Gaines
2024-10-17 20:18:46 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by Jeff Gaines
Post by Jethro_uk
Post by Theo
I recall going to a backstreet phone shop with an 'unapproved' phone
that somebody from abroad had carried in their luggage.  It was all
nudge nudge 'well this is not allowed, but ...' - they swapped the cord
for one with a BT plug.
My Dad acquired a PABX phone from his work and wired it in as an
extension. Not being British, he was less than impressed by the minimum 6
month wait,plus extortionate charge for an approved one.
We were told at the time that a 6 month wait was actually greased
lightning compared to some areas. But that was the 70s for you.
Proof, if proof is needed, that privatisation works.
Many of the UK nationalised or monopoly industries of the 50/60/70s acted
as though they were doing you a favour when accepting you as a paying
customer.
Yes, indeed, and the NHS still does :-(
--
Jeff Gaines Dorset UK
I've been through the desert on a horse with no name.
It was a right bugger to get him back when he ran off.
John R Walliker
2024-10-17 12:53:50 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by Theo
Post by pinnerite
On Wed, 16 Oct 2024 09:44:29 -0000 (UTC)
Post by Jethro_uk
A Brexit freedom, yay.
What would folk here prefer ?
https://www.theregister.com/2024/10/14/uk_usbc_charging_standard/
I think if we go for a 30-pin (just in case) connector that only goes one
way, with space for some nice printed messages for advertising.
I am still mad at the British authorities for going their own way with the
BT telephone connectors instead of the near-universal RJ-45.
That was deliberate, wasn't it? Phones had to be 'BABT Approved', in case
they blew up the exchange or something. Control supply of the plugs, stop
unapproved stuff being plugged in. Especially not that Hong Kong or
Japanese junk.
I recall going to a backstreet phone shop with an 'unapproved' phone that
somebody from abroad had carried in their luggage. It was all nudge nudge
'well this is not allowed, but ...' - they swapped the cord for one with a
BT plug.
I don't remember if the 'BABT Approved' thing was also a wheeze by which the
market price was kept high so people would continue to rent phones from BT.
Anyone remember?
Theo
There was an article about this in the BT Research Labs Journal around
the time that they were introduced. The main motivation for the new
design was to make the connector much more robust than the existing RJ11
type.
There were also special versions with different keying for various
PBX setups.
John
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