Discussion:
Thread chaser for immersion heater
(too old to reply)
newshound
2010-02-04 22:27:47 UTC
Permalink
The local brewery uses immersion heaters in the hot liquor tank. This runs
at about 78 C so develops a fair amount of limescale. Any idea where we
might find a 2 1/4 bsp thread chaser to clean up the threads when replacing
elements? (£300 for a "proper" tap is a bit of an investment).

I'd wondered about fabricating something from three or four 5/8 BSW or UNC
taps (which also have 11 tpi) on an adjustable or "soft" mandrel.

Tank and bosses are stainless, so hydrochloric acid not a good idea.



(Chief beer taster. I get to check a pint out of every barrel they produce.
£50 a week; not much, I know, but it's all I can afford)
dennis@home
2010-02-04 22:56:30 UTC
Permalink
Post by newshound
The local brewery uses immersion heaters in the hot liquor tank. This runs
at about 78 C so develops a fair amount of limescale. Any idea where we
might find a 2 1/4 bsp thread chaser to clean up the threads when
replacing elements? (£300 for a "proper" tap is a bit of an investment).
I'd wondered about fabricating something from three or four 5/8 BSW or UNC
taps (which also have 11 tpi) on an adjustable or "soft" mandrel.
Tank and bosses are stainless, so hydrochloric acid not a good idea.
Citric acid works quite well on scale and its used in brewing for a lot of
things.
Andy Dingley
2010-02-04 23:10:35 UTC
Permalink
Post by newshound
I'd wondered about fabricating something from three or four 5/8 BSW or UNC
taps (which also have 11 tpi) on an adjustable or "soft" mandrel.
Go for it.

The other way is to hand-file teeth into a strip of O1 steel, then
harden it (which is easy with O1)
Tim
2010-02-05 08:19:17 UTC
Permalink
Post by Andy Dingley
Post by newshound
I'd wondered about fabricating something from three or four 5/8 BSW or UNC
taps (which also have 11 tpi) on an adjustable or "soft" mandrel.
Go for it.
The other way is to hand-file teeth into a strip of O1 steel, then
harden it (which is easy with O1)
Alternatively make your own tap from a bit of, eg, EN8. For that job
you might not even need to harden it.

Have you tried plumbers' merchants in case there's a standard item for
less money than a proper tap?

Tim
TMC
2010-02-04 23:04:56 UTC
Permalink
Post by newshound
The local brewery uses immersion heaters in the hot liquor tank. This runs
at about 78 C so develops a fair amount of limescale. Any idea where we
might find a 2 1/4 bsp thread chaser to clean up the threads when
replacing elements? (£300 for a "proper" tap is a bit of an investment).
I'd wondered about fabricating something from three or four 5/8 BSW or UNC
taps (which also have 11 tpi) on an adjustable or "soft" mandrel.
Tank and bosses are stainless, so hydrochloric acid not a good idea.
(Chief beer taster. I get to check a pint out of every barrel they
produce. £50 a week; not much, I know, but it's all I can afford)
would it not be possible to use an old immersion header threaded section.
Use a dremel or similar to make slots in the thread so it would work in the
same way as a chaser?
tony
Tim Lamb
2010-02-05 11:07:47 UTC
Permalink
Post by newshound
The local brewery uses immersion heaters in the hot liquor tank. This
runs at about 78 C so develops a fair amount of limescale. Any idea
where we might find a 2 1/4 bsp thread chaser to clean up the threads
when replacing elements? (£300 for a "proper" tap is a bit of an
investment).
I'd wondered about fabricating something from three or four 5/8 BSW
or UNC taps (which also have 11 tpi) on an adjustable or "soft"
mandrel.
Tank and bosses are stainless, so hydrochloric acid not a good idea.
(Chief beer taster. I get to check a pint out of every barrel they
produce. £50 a week; not much, I know, but it's all I can afford)
would it not be possible to use an old immersion header threaded
section. Use a dremel or similar to make slots in the thread so it
would work in the same way as a chaser?
Snap:-)

regards
--
Tim Lamb
Tim Lamb
2010-02-05 11:04:58 UTC
Permalink
Post by newshound
The local brewery uses immersion heaters in the hot liquor tank. This
runs at about 78 C so develops a fair amount of limescale. Any idea
where we might find a 2 1/4 bsp thread chaser to clean up the threads
when replacing elements? (£300 for a "proper" tap is a bit of an
investment).
Angle grinder?

Seriously. Take a scrap element and cut a few slots in the thread such
that the *forward* face cuts when you reinsert it.

regards
--
Tim Lamb
newshound
2010-02-06 12:15:42 UTC
Permalink
Post by Tim Lamb
Post by newshound
The local brewery uses immersion heaters in the hot liquor tank. This runs
at about 78 C so develops a fair amount of limescale. Any idea where we
might find a 2 1/4 bsp thread chaser to clean up the threads when
replacing elements? (£300 for a "proper" tap is a bit of an investment).
Angle grinder?
Seriously. Take a scrap element and cut a few slots in the thread such
that the *forward* face cuts when you reinsert it.
regards
--
Tim Lamb
Thanks, I had wondered about doing that, so I'm pleased to have several
endorsements. Most of the old elements have brass nuts, but I think there
might have been a steel one there as well. Part of the problem is that there
is a bit of pickup and distortion, so it needs to be done a bit carefully.
Might make the thing up with slit right through the ring so it can be
collapsed if it jams.

Havn't been able to find a purpose made tool anywhere, but I thought if they
do exist someone here would know. The Travers link posted elsewhere is the
nearest.
Dave Baker
2010-02-05 12:37:10 UTC
Permalink
Post by newshound
The local brewery uses immersion heaters in the hot liquor tank. This runs
at about 78 C so develops a fair amount of limescale. Any idea where we
might find a 2 1/4 bsp thread chaser to clean up the threads when
replacing elements? (£300 for a "proper" tap is a bit of an investment).
I'd wondered about fabricating something from three or four 5/8 BSW or UNC
taps (which also have 11 tpi) on an adjustable or "soft" mandrel.
Tank and bosses are stainless, so hydrochloric acid not a good idea.
(Chief beer taster. I get to check a pint out of every barrel they
produce. £50 a week; not much, I know, but it's all I can afford)
As has been suggested the standard trick to make a "poor man's tap" is to
grind flutes into any bolt or fitting of the same thread size such that A)
the flutes are completely below the root diameter of the thread and B) the
leading edge of the flute is vertical in the clockwise direction so it acts
as a cutting edge just like a proper reamer.

I make these routinely for non standard thread sizes for cleaning out bolt
threads in engines using old bolts and the edge of the wheel of my bench
grinder. You only need to flute the first few threads for it to work nicely.
They'll clean out crap and corrosion and even correct light damage in soft
materials although of course they won't cut a new thread like a proper
hardened tap.

Alternatively as the tanks are stainless steel not soft brass you could use
a small rotary wire brush in an electric drill such as these.

http://www.tool-wise.com/products/spindle_mounted_crimped_wheel_light_duty/index.html

One of those would whiz through limescale without hurting the thread itself.
I use those in my high speed rotary grinding equipment for cleaning out
cylinder heads and engine blocks. You can get smaller ones for use in
Dremels and similar and in fact the high speed of the Dremel would maybe
make it worth getting one of those too. A cordless one like this

http://www.argos.co.uk/webapp/wcs/stores/servlet/ProductDisplay?storeId=10001&catalogId=1500002201&productId=1500642739&langId=-1&engine=froogle&keyword=Dremel+Lithium-Ion+Cordless+Rotary+Tool&_$ja=tsid:11527|cc:|prd:0072492|cat:Power+Tools

would make it easier to use without having to rig up extension cables to
each tank. Dremel do their own brushes in carbon steel, stainless steel and
brass. Brass would be very gentle on the steel of the thread while still
removing the limescale although I doubt they'd last very long. Ideally for a
steel brush you'd want wire of 0.3mm diameter or less. The 0.35mm wire is
more aggressive and less able to reach into the roots of the threads. With
0.3mm wire brushes I can even clean up aluminium cylinder heads without
marking the alloy if I don't run the brushes at too high a speed. With
0.35mm wire it tends to scratch a bit at high speed although on stainless
steel it would be fine.

Be aware though you do tend to lose strands of wire from time to time so
you'd need it to not be a problem if one of those fell into the tank. I'm
sure everything is filtered at some later stage though.

http://www.dremeleurope.com/gb/en/start/index.html
--
Dave Baker
newshound
2010-02-06 12:27:43 UTC
Permalink
Post by Dave Baker
Post by newshound
The local brewery uses immersion heaters in the hot liquor tank. This
runs at about 78 C so develops a fair amount of limescale. Any idea where
we might find a 2 1/4 bsp thread chaser to clean up the threads when
replacing elements? (£300 for a "proper" tap is a bit of an investment).
I'd wondered about fabricating something from three or four 5/8 BSW or
UNC taps (which also have 11 tpi) on an adjustable or "soft" mandrel.
Tank and bosses are stainless, so hydrochloric acid not a good idea.
(Chief beer taster. I get to check a pint out of every barrel they
produce. £50 a week; not much, I know, but it's all I can afford)
As has been suggested the standard trick to make a "poor man's tap" is to
grind flutes into any bolt or fitting of the same thread size such that A)
the flutes are completely below the root diameter of the thread and B) the
leading edge of the flute is vertical in the clockwise direction so it
acts as a cutting edge just like a proper reamer.
I make these routinely for non standard thread sizes for cleaning out bolt
threads in engines using old bolts and the edge of the wheel of my bench
grinder. You only need to flute the first few threads for it to work
nicely. They'll clean out crap and corrosion and even correct light damage
in soft materials although of course they won't cut a new thread like a
proper hardened tap.
Alternatively as the tanks are stainless steel not soft brass you could
use a small rotary wire brush in an electric drill such as these.
http://www.tool-wise.com/products/spindle_mounted_crimped_wheel_light_duty/index.html
One of those would whiz through limescale without hurting the thread
itself. I use those in my high speed rotary grinding equipment for
cleaning out cylinder heads and engine blocks. You can get smaller ones
for use in Dremels and similar and in fact the high speed of the Dremel
would maybe make it worth getting one of those too. A cordless one like
this
http://www.argos.co.uk/webapp/wcs/stores/servlet/ProductDisplay?storeId=10001&catalogId=1500002201&productId=1500642739&langId=-1&engine=froogle&keyword=Dremel+Lithium-Ion+Cordless+Rotary+Tool&_$ja=tsid:11527|cc:|prd:0072492|cat:Power+Tools
would make it easier to use without having to rig up extension cables to
each tank. Dremel do their own brushes in carbon steel, stainless steel
and brass. Brass would be very gentle on the steel of the thread while
still removing the limescale although I doubt they'd last very long.
Ideally for a steel brush you'd want wire of 0.3mm diameter or less. The
0.35mm wire is more aggressive and less able to reach into the roots of
the threads. With 0.3mm wire brushes I can even clean up aluminium
cylinder heads without marking the alloy if I don't run the brushes at too
high a speed. With 0.35mm wire it tends to scratch a bit at high speed
although on stainless steel it would be fine.
Be aware though you do tend to lose strands of wire from time to time so
you'd need it to not be a problem if one of those fell into the tank. I'm
sure everything is filtered at some later stage though.
http://www.dremeleurope.com/gb/en/start/index.html
--
Dave Baker
Good idea, not sure why I didn't think of that; I have mains and battery
dremels although the batteries are getting tired, and I have a birthday
coming up so might just drop hints around the family.

But I'll also try to knock up something from an old element.

I've only used the cheap wire brushes that tend to come in the kits and as
you say they don't last long. I'll order myself some better ones.

The beer isn't really filtered, but it gets strained to remove the malt and
hops which would probably catch any lost wires. Also, it's "real", i.e. cask
conditioned, so anything which reached the barrel will end up in the yeast
layer at the bottom, and anyone who drinks that probably wouldn't notice....

(I'm not being totally flippant, there will certainly be carry over of shed
limescale from the hot liquor tank, but you don't find that in the beer).
PaulS
2010-02-05 18:27:34 UTC
Permalink
Post by newshound
The local brewery uses immersion heaters in the hot liquor tank. This runs
at about 78 C so develops a fair amount of limescale. Any idea where we
might find a 2 1/4 bsp thread chaser to clean up the threads when replacing
elements? (£300 for a "proper" tap is a bit of an investment).
I'd wondered about fabricating something from three or four 5/8 BSW or UNC
taps (which also have 11 tpi) on an adjustable or "soft" mandrel.
Tank and bosses are stainless, so hydrochloric acid not a good idea.
(Chief beer taster. I get to check a pint out of every barrel they produce.
£50 a week; not much, I know, but it's all I can afford)
How about the type of thread repair tool such as at www.travers.com,
part: #51-050-000. Like a pair of opposed arm plyers with a chaser on
each arm. HTH.

Good luck with your brew.

PaulS
newshound
2010-02-06 12:07:05 UTC
Permalink
Post by PaulS
How about the type of thread repair tool such as at www.travers.com,
part: #51-050-000. Like a pair of opposed arm plyers with a chaser on
each arm. HTH.
Good luck with your brew.
PaulS
I'd wondered if there was such a tool, but I had never come across one
before. The thread files also look useful: have downloaded the catalogue for
a later browse!
1501
2010-02-17 09:58:45 UTC
Permalink
Post by newshound
The local brewery uses immersion heaters in the hot liquor tank. This runs
at about 78 C so develops a fair amount of limescale. Any idea where we
might find a 2 1/4 bsp thread chaser to clean up the threads when replacing
elements? (£300 for a "proper" tap is a bit of an investment).
I'd wondered about fabricating something from three or four 5/8 BSW or UNC
taps (which also have 11 tpi) on an adjustable or "soft" mandrel.
Tank and bosses are stainless, so hydrochloric acid not a good idea.
(Chief beer taster. I get to check a pint out of every barrel they produce.
£50 a week; not much, I know, but it's all I can afford)
Tracy Tools only list BSP taps up to 2" at £20 and
http://www.tracytools.com/tapsanddiesbsp.htm says they do up to 6"
poa. Give them a ring; I'm sure it'll be far less than £300.

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