Discussion:
Vehicle Electronics and Water[1]
(too old to reply)
Nick Odell
2024-03-27 16:44:37 UTC
Permalink
Is it my imagination or do there seem to be many more drownings in
motor vehicles than there used to be? People caught in flash floods or
trying to navigate inundated roads who end up trapped in their cars:
that sort of thing?

I just wondered whether modern vehicle electronics had anything to do
with it? Will automatically-locking doors automatically unlock in the
event of the vehicle computer becoming flooded with water? Will
electric windows still work? Is this sort of resilience part of the
design spec?

Fifty years ago I reversed a car into a lake until the rear end was
completely submerged but all the electrics continued to work as
normal. Would this still have happened today?

Nick
[]1Prompted by the Baltimore Bridge Disaster but probably not relevant
to it.
[2]No, not drunk and out of control. Carefully reversed a car and
trailer down a boat slipway but a combination of the slipway slope,
depth of the water and height of the trailer meant that the rear of
the vehicle had to be well underwater before the boat could be floated
free of the trailer.
Rod Speed
2024-03-27 19:27:44 UTC
Permalink
Is it my imagination or do there seem to be many moredrownings in motor
vehicles than there used to be?
Never seen any stats on that.
People caught in flash floods or trying to navigateinundated roads who
that sort of thing?
I just wondered whether modern vehicle electronics had anythingto do
with it? Will automatically-locking doors automatically unlockin the
event of the vehicle computer becoming flooded with water?
Even if they do, its not trivial to get the door open in deep enough water
Will electric windows still work?
Should do except maybe in sea water.
Is this sort of resilience part of the design spec?
Not aware of that.

Its certainly possible to have an automatic
center pop to break the door windows.
Fifty years ago I reversed a car into a lake until the rear endwas
completely submerged but all the electrics continued towork as normal.
Would this still have happened today?
Yes, river water isnt very conductive.
Nick
[]1Prompted by the Baltimore Bridge Disasterbut probably not relevant
to it.
It would be if you were in one of the cars that came off the bridge.
[2]No, not drunk and out of control.
Corse you would say that...
Carefully reversed a car and
trailer down a boat slipway but a combination of the slipway slope,
depth of the water and height of the trailer meant that the rear of
the vehicle had to be well underwater before the boat could be floated
free of the trailer.
Yeah, not uncommon at all.
Tim+
2024-03-27 19:49:30 UTC
Permalink
Post by Nick Odell
Is it my imagination or do there seem to be many more drownings in
motor vehicles than there used to be?
I suspect it’s just down to more people trying to get vehicles “written
off” for financial gain. It’s hard to believe that all the eejits trying
to drive through Rufford ford that you can see on YouTube are ignorant of
the possible consequences.


Tim
--
Please don't feed the trolls
wasbit
2024-03-29 11:08:09 UTC
Permalink
Post by Tim+
Post by Nick Odell
Is it my imagination or do there seem to be many more drownings in
motor vehicles than there used to be?
I suspect it’s just down to more people trying to get vehicles “written
off” for financial gain. It’s hard to believe that all the eejits trying
to drive through Rufford ford that you can see on YouTube are ignorant of
the possible consequences.
Dunno, but how does this work? Start at 6 minutes in.
(Used to know how to do that but can't find the specific note).


--
Regards
wasbit
Nick Odell
2024-03-29 14:27:34 UTC
Permalink
Post by wasbit
Post by Nick Odell
Is it my imagination or do there seem to be many more drownings in
motor vehicles than there used to be?
I suspect it’s just down to more people trying to get vehicles “written
off” for financial gain. It’s hard to believe that all the eejits trying
to drive through Rufford ford that you can see on YouTube are ignorant of
the possible consequences.
Dunno, but how does this work? Start at 6 minutes in.
(Used to know how to do that but can't find the specific note).
http://youtu.be/gdDtuVCQZrU
Came for the guy on the moto, stayed for... all of it, actually.

Hilarious!

Nick
Tim+
2024-03-29 17:09:56 UTC
Permalink
Post by wasbit
Post by Tim+
Post by Nick Odell
Is it my imagination or do there seem to be many more drownings in
motor vehicles than there used to be?
I suspect it’s just down to more people trying to get vehicles “written
off” for financial gain. It’s hard to believe that all the eejits trying
to drive through Rufford ford that you can see on YouTube are ignorant of
the possible consequences.
Dunno, but how does this work? Start at 6 minutes in.
(Used to know how to do that but can't find the specific note).
http://youtu.be/gdDtuVCQZrU
The guy has fitted a snorkel to the engine air intake. You can see him
holding up a rubber tube as he rides through.

Tim
--
Please don't feed the trolls
wasbit
2024-03-30 10:13:50 UTC
Permalink
Post by Tim+
Post by wasbit
Post by Tim+
Post by Nick Odell
Is it my imagination or do there seem to be many more drownings in
motor vehicles than there used to be?
I suspect it’s just down to more people trying to get vehicles “written
off” for financial gain. It’s hard to believe that all the eejits trying
to drive through Rufford ford that you can see on YouTube are ignorant of
the possible consequences.
Dunno, but how does this work? Start at 6 minutes in.
(Used to know how to do that but can't find the specific note).
http://youtu.be/gdDtuVCQZrU
The guy has fitted a snorkel to the engine air intake. You can see him
holding up a rubber tube as he rides through.
Yes, I saw that but I wondered why there was no electrical problems.
--
Regards
wasbit
Tim+
2024-03-30 15:29:34 UTC
Permalink
Post by wasbit
Post by Tim+
Post by wasbit
Post by Tim+
Post by Nick Odell
Is it my imagination or do there seem to be many more drownings in
motor vehicles than there used to be?
I suspect it’s just down to more people trying to get vehicles “written
off” for financial gain. It’s hard to believe that all the eejits trying
to drive through Rufford ford that you can see on YouTube are ignorant of
the possible consequences.
Dunno, but how does this work? Start at 6 minutes in.
(Used to know how to do that but can't find the specific note).
http://youtu.be/gdDtuVCQZrU
The guy has fitted a snorkel to the engine air intake. You can see him
holding up a rubber tube as he rides through.
Yes, I saw that but I wondered why there was no electrical problems.
Diesel? ;-)

I guess the electrics are well enough sealed to get through. Japanese
rather than British Leyland standard electrics. ;-)

Tim
--
Please don't feed the trolls
Davey
2024-03-31 14:36:57 UTC
Permalink
On 30 Mar 2024 15:29:34 GMT
Post by Tim+
Post by wasbit
Post by Tim+
Post by wasbit
Post by Tim+
Post by Nick Odell
Is it my imagination or do there seem to be many more drownings
in motor vehicles than there used to be?
I suspect it’s just down to more people trying to get vehicles
“written off” for financial gain. It’s hard to believe that all
the eejits trying to drive through Rufford ford that you can see
on YouTube are ignorant of the possible consequences.
Dunno, but how does this work? Start at 6 minutes in.
(Used to know how to do that but can't find the specific note).
http://youtu.be/gdDtuVCQZrU
The guy has fitted a snorkel to the engine air intake. You can
see him holding up a rubber tube as he rides through.
Yes, I saw that but I wondered why there was no electrical problems.
Diesel? ;-)
I guess the electrics are well enough sealed to get through. Japanese
rather than British Leyland standard electrics. ;-)
Tim
The Austin Champ came well water-proofed, and had tiny little rubber
plugs attached to the wiper motors to prevent water ingress through the
ventilation holes
--
Davey.
nib
2024-03-30 15:46:02 UTC
Permalink
Post by wasbit
Post by wasbit
Post by Tim+
Post by Nick Odell
Is it my imagination or do there seem to be many more drownings in
motor vehicles than there used to be?
I suspect it’s just down to more people trying to get vehicles “written
off” for financial gain.  It’s hard to believe that all the eejits
trying
to drive through Rufford ford that you can see on YouTube are ignorant of
the possible consequences.
Dunno, but how does this work? Start at 6 minutes in.
(Used to know how to do that but can't find the specific note).
http://youtu.be/gdDtuVCQZrU
The guy has fitted a snorkel to the engine air intake.  You can see him
holding up a rubber tube as he rides through.
Yes, I saw that but I wondered why there was no electrical problems.
Can't ask him now, but part of the preparation my father's unit was
engaged in in 1944-1945 was waterproofing their vehicles so they could
drive off the landing craft through the water, driving standing up if
necessary. As I understand it, long pipes for the gases and
waterproofing everything.

A very old-fashioned diesel, mechanical fuel pump and simple stop lever,
might work with just a long air intake tube?

nib
wasbit
2024-03-31 09:08:10 UTC
Permalink
Post by wasbit
Post by wasbit
Post by Tim+
Post by Nick Odell
Is it my imagination or do there seem to be many more drownings in
motor vehicles than there used to be?
I suspect it’s just down to more people trying to get vehicles “written
off” for financial gain.  It’s hard to believe that all the eejits
trying
to drive through Rufford ford that you can see on YouTube are ignorant of
the possible consequences.
Dunno, but how does this work? Start at 6 minutes in.
(Used to know how to do that but can't find the specific note).
http://youtu.be/gdDtuVCQZrU
The guy has fitted a snorkel to the engine air intake.  You can see him
holding up a rubber tube as he rides through.
Yes, I saw that but I wondered why there was no electrical problems.
Edit: There were - not there was.
--
Regards
wasbit
The Natural Philosopher
2024-03-31 10:36:28 UTC
Permalink
Post by wasbit
Post by wasbit
Post by wasbit
Post by Tim+
Post by Nick Odell
Is it my imagination or do there seem to be many more drownings in
motor vehicles than there used to be?
I suspect it’s just down to more people trying to get vehicles “written
off” for financial gain.  It’s hard to believe that all the eejits
trying
to drive through Rufford ford that you can see on YouTube are ignorant of
the possible consequences.
Dunno, but how does this work? Start at 6 minutes in.
(Used to know how to do that but can't find the specific note).
http://youtu.be/gdDtuVCQZrU
The guy has fitted a snorkel to the engine air intake.  You can see him
holding up a rubber tube as he rides through.
Yes, I saw that but I wondered why there was no electrical problems.
Edit: There were - not there was.
sadly the modern idiom is to ape the USA and use the singular throughout
--
In todays liberal progressive conflict-free education system, everyone
gets full Marx.
Rod Speed
2024-03-29 18:04:33 UTC
Permalink
Post by wasbit
Post by Nick Odell
Is it my imagination or do there seem to be many more drownings in
motor vehicles than there used to be?
I suspect it=E2=80=99s just down to more people trying to get vehicl=
es =E2=80=9Cwritten
Post by wasbit
off=E2=80=9D for financial gain. It=E2=80=99s hard to believe that a=
ll the eejits =
Post by wasbit
trying
to drive through Rufford ford that you can see on YouTube are ignoran=
t =
Post by wasbit
of
the possible consequences.
Dunno, but how does this work? Start at 6 minutes in.
(Used to know how to do that but can't find the specific note).
Pause at that time, right mouse click, select
copy url at this time

http://youtu.be/gdDtuVCQZrU
Post by wasbit

wasbit
2024-03-30 10:11:04 UTC
Permalink
Post by Rod Speed
Post by wasbit
Post by Nick Odell
Is it my imagination or do there seem to be many more drownings in
motor vehicles than there used to be?
 I suspect it’s just down to more people trying to get vehicles “written
off” for financial gain.  It’s hard to believe that all the eejits
trying
to drive through Rufford ford that you can see on YouTube are ignorant of
the possible consequences.
Dunno, but how does this work? Start at 6 minutes in.
(Used to know how to do that but can't find the specific note).
Pause at that time, right mouse click, select
copy url at this time
http://youtu.be/gdDtuVCQZrU
Post by wasbit
http://youtu.be/gdDtuVCQZrU
Thanks. Didn't know that method.
--
Regards
wasbit
Paul
2024-03-31 14:30:53 UTC
Permalink
Post by Nick Odell
Is it my imagination or do there seem to be many more drownings in
motor vehicles than there used to be? People caught in flash floods or
that sort of thing?
I just wondered whether modern vehicle electronics had anything to do
with it? Will automatically-locking doors automatically unlock in the
event of the vehicle computer becoming flooded with water? Will
electric windows still work? Is this sort of resilience part of the
design spec?
Fifty years ago I reversed a car into a lake until the rear end was
completely submerged but all the electrics continued to work as
normal. Would this still have happened today?
Nick
[]1Prompted by the Baltimore Bridge Disaster but probably not relevant
to it.
[2]No, not drunk and out of control. Carefully reversed a car and
trailer down a boat slipway but a combination of the slipway slope,
depth of the water and height of the trailer meant that the rear of
the vehicle had to be well underwater before the boat could be floated
free of the trailer.
There are two things you can carry in a car:

1) A glass-break device (a pointed hammer thingy, that breaks safety glass).
This helps with situations like pressure-differential. Your door may be
open, but it opens outwards against the pressure. When you're ready to leave,
you break the driver window with hammer tap, and head for the surface.

2) A belt cutter. In case the release jams and you need to cut yourself loose.
May be helpful in a rollover, and you're inverted.

You can't have this just "anywhere" in the car. These items must be within
reach, and secured in such a way, they'll be where you expect them to be.
If you leave the devices in the back of the car, they could be useless
to you.

*******

The departure conditions on that bridge are not good.

185 feet above water (G-force on impact).

Water is damn cold.

Water is dirty, and zero visibility.

That's hell. Hell on earth.

Paul
Colin Bignell
2024-03-31 16:01:24 UTC
Permalink
Post by Paul
Post by Nick Odell
Is it my imagination or do there seem to be many more drownings in
motor vehicles than there used to be? People caught in flash floods or
that sort of thing?
I just wondered whether modern vehicle electronics had anything to do
with it? Will automatically-locking doors automatically unlock in the
event of the vehicle computer becoming flooded with water? Will
electric windows still work? Is this sort of resilience part of the
design spec?
Fifty years ago I reversed a car into a lake until the rear end was
completely submerged but all the electrics continued to work as
normal. Would this still have happened today?
Nick
[]1Prompted by the Baltimore Bridge Disaster but probably not relevant
to it.
[2]No, not drunk and out of control. Carefully reversed a car and
trailer down a boat slipway but a combination of the slipway slope,
depth of the water and height of the trailer meant that the rear of
the vehicle had to be well underwater before the boat could be floated
free of the trailer.
1) A glass-break device (a pointed hammer thingy, that breaks safety glass).
This helps with situations like pressure-differential. Your door may be
open, but it opens outwards against the pressure. When you're ready to leave,
you break the driver window with hammer tap, and head for the surface.
2) A belt cutter. In case the release jams and you need to cut yourself loose.
May be helpful in a rollover, and you're inverted.
Alternatively, a Swiss Army knife. Several cutty things on that and the
device for removing Boy Scouts from horses' hooves, makes a handy punch
if you hold the body with it sticking out between a couple of fingers.

Also, hit the glass near a bottom corner. I've watched a policeman's
truncheon bounce off a car window when he hit it really hard in the
centre. (A lady had locked her keys in the car and was desperate to get in).
Post by Paul
You can't have this just "anywhere" in the car. These items must be within
reach, and secured in such a way, they'll be where you expect them to be.
If you leave the devices in the back of the car, they could be useless
to you.
My SAK is always in my pocket (unless flying on a commercial airline),
secured to my belt with a chain and a snap clip. They are expensive to
replace if they fall out of the pocket.
Post by Paul
*******
The departure conditions on that bridge are not good.
185 feet above water (G-force on impact).
Water is damn cold.
Water is dirty, and zero visibility.
That's hell. Hell on earth.
Paul
--
Colin Bignell
The Natural Philosopher
2024-03-31 16:42:13 UTC
Permalink
Post by Colin Bignell
My SAK is always in my pocket
Yiu will be charged for carrying a concealed offensive weapon.
--
You can get much farther with a kind word and a gun than you can with a
kind word alone.

Al Capone
Colin Bignell
2024-03-31 17:16:59 UTC
Permalink
Post by The Natural Philosopher
Post by Colin Bignell
My SAK is always in my pocket
Yiu will be charged for carrying a concealed offensive weapon.
It is a non-locking pocket knife with a blade not exceeding three
inches, so it can be carried without a valid reason. However, submerged
car escape tool could probably be put forward as one.
--
Colin Bignell
Rod Speed
2024-03-31 17:27:45 UTC
Permalink
On Mon, 01 Apr 2024 04:16:59 +1100, Colin Bignell
Post by Colin Bignell
Post by The Natural Philosopher
Post by Colin Bignell
My SAK is always in my pocket
Yiu will be charged for carrying a concealed offensive weapon.
It is a non-locking pocket knife with a blade not exceeding three
inches, so it can be carried without a valid reason. However, submerged
car escape tool could probably be put forward as one.
But an automatic center pop kept in the car would
work much better, particularly for women and kids
and would be completely legal.
Colin Bignell
2024-03-31 19:00:08 UTC
Permalink
Post by Rod Speed
On Mon, 01 Apr 2024 04:16:59 +1100, Colin Bignell
Post by Colin Bignell
Post by The Natural Philosopher
Post by Colin Bignell
My SAK is always in my pocket
Yiu will be charged for carrying a concealed offensive weapon.
It is a non-locking pocket knife with a blade not exceeding three
inches, so it can be carried without a valid reason. However,
submerged car escape tool could probably be put forward as one.
But an automatic center pop kept in the car would
work much better, particularly for women and kids
and would be completely legal.
Carrying kids would be illegal, as I don't have the requisite child
safety equipment, but the SAK is perfectly legal.
--
Colin Bignell
Rod Speed
2024-03-31 22:19:40 UTC
Permalink
On Mon, 01 Apr 2024 06:00:08 +1100, Colin Bignell
Post by Colin Bignell
Post by Rod Speed
On Mon, 01 Apr 2024 04:16:59 +1100, Colin Bignell
Post by Colin Bignell
Post by The Natural Philosopher
Post by Colin Bignell
My SAK is always in my pocket
Yiu will be charged for carrying a concealed offensive weapon.
It is a non-locking pocket knife with a blade not exceeding three
inches, so it can be carried without a valid reason. However,
submerged car escape tool could probably be put forward as one.
But an automatic center pop kept in the car would
work much better, particularly for women and kids
and would be completely legal.
Carrying kids would be illegal, as I don't have the requisite child
safety equipment,
Depends on the age of the kids.
Post by Colin Bignell
but the SAK is perfectly legal.
But much more risky of a woman or a kid to
use and very few of those carry one of those.
Colin Bignell
2024-04-01 09:32:07 UTC
Permalink
Post by Rod Speed
On Mon, 01 Apr 2024 06:00:08 +1100, Colin Bignell
Post by Colin Bignell
Post by Rod Speed
On Mon, 01 Apr 2024 04:16:59 +1100, Colin Bignell
Post by Colin Bignell
Post by The Natural Philosopher
Post by Colin Bignell
My SAK is always in my pocket
Yiu will be charged for carrying a concealed offensive weapon.
It is a non-locking pocket knife with a blade not exceeding three
inches, so it can be carried without a valid reason. However,
submerged car escape tool could probably be put forward as one.
 But an automatic center pop kept in the car would
work much better, particularly for women and kids
and would be completely legal.
Carrying kids would be illegal, as I don't have the requisite child
safety equipment,
Depends on the age of the kids.
Pre-teens and teens don't count as kids.
Post by Rod Speed
Post by Colin Bignell
but the SAK is perfectly legal.
But much more risky of a woman or a kid to
use and very few of those carry one of those.
Even fewer travel in my car, so it is not a problem I need to worry about.
--
Colin Bignell
Andrew
2024-04-01 11:15:39 UTC
Permalink
Post by Colin Bignell
Post by Rod Speed
On Mon, 01 Apr 2024 06:00:08 +1100, Colin Bignell
Post by Colin Bignell
Post by Rod Speed
On Mon, 01 Apr 2024 04:16:59 +1100, Colin Bignell
Post by Colin Bignell
Post by The Natural Philosopher
Post by Colin Bignell
My SAK is always in my pocket
Yiu will be charged for carrying a concealed offensive weapon.
It is a non-locking pocket knife with a blade not exceeding three
inches, so it can be carried without a valid reason. However,
submerged car escape tool could probably be put forward as one.
 But an automatic center pop kept in the car would
work much better, particularly for women and kids
and would be completely legal.
Carrying kids would be illegal, as I don't have the requisite child
safety equipment,
Depends on the age of the kids.
Pre-teens and teens don't count as kids.
Post by Rod Speed
Post by Colin Bignell
but the SAK is perfectly legal.
But much more risky of a woman or a kid to
use and very few of those carry one of those.
Even fewer travel in my car, so it is not a problem I need to worry about.
My Astra H Estate failed its MOT three years ago because the
centre lap belt had jammed after I put the rear seats back
up for its MOT. Had to pay £285 for a new belt/reel despite
never carrying passengers in the back (seats down all the
time the rest of the time).

This model of Astra had interlocked the centre belt reel with
the button used to lower the split seat, with a bowden cable
connecting the two. Over the years the grease had dried up and
it was actually that that caused the problem. No chance to
investigate the day before an MOT and the centre reel was so
locked that any attempt to free it locked it even tighter.

The purpose of the interlock was to prevent use of the centre
belt, if the seat back had not locked into place. Haven't seen
this attention to detail on other estate cars with split rear
seats
The Natural Philosopher
2024-04-01 11:25:03 UTC
Permalink
Post by Andrew
Post by Colin Bignell
Post by Rod Speed
On Mon, 01 Apr 2024 06:00:08 +1100, Colin Bignell
Post by Colin Bignell
Post by Rod Speed
On Mon, 01 Apr 2024 04:16:59 +1100, Colin Bignell
Post by Colin Bignell
Post by The Natural Philosopher
Post by Colin Bignell
My SAK is always in my pocket
Yiu will be charged for carrying a concealed offensive weapon.
It is a non-locking pocket knife with a blade not exceeding three
inches, so it can be carried without a valid reason. However,
submerged car escape tool could probably be put forward as one.
 But an automatic center pop kept in the car would
work much better, particularly for women and kids
and would be completely legal.
Carrying kids would be illegal, as I don't have the requisite child
safety equipment,
Depends on the age of the kids.
Pre-teens and teens don't count as kids.
Post by Rod Speed
Post by Colin Bignell
but the SAK is perfectly legal.
But much more risky of a woman or a kid to
use and very few of those carry one of those.
Even fewer travel in my car, so it is not a problem I need to worry about.
My Astra H Estate failed its MOT three years ago because the
centre lap belt had jammed after I put the rear seats back
up for its MOT. Had to pay £285 for a new belt/reel despite
never carrying passengers in the back (seats down all the
time the rest of the time).
I had a similar problem with my old Freelander. The MOT tester had
carefully twisted the seat belt and let it retract and jammed it
I bought the right Torx bits removed the shroud and untwisted it

Another time my windscreen washer mysteriously stopped working a few
weeks after a service. I removed wipers and the panel to find the washer
tube had been pulled nearly off the plastic nozzle, and had become fully
detached on first use.
Post by Andrew
This model of Astra had interlocked the centre belt reel with
the button used to lower the split seat, with a bowden cable
connecting the two. Over the years the grease had dried up and
it was actually that that caused the problem. No chance to
investigate the day before an MOT and the centre reel was so
locked that any attempt to free it locked it even tighter.
The purpose of the interlock was to prevent use of the centre
belt, if the seat back had not locked into place. Haven't seen
this attention to detail on other estate cars with split rear
seats
That is usually electric sensing now.
--
In todays liberal progressive conflict-free education system, everyone
gets full Marx.
alan_m
2024-04-01 15:12:08 UTC
Permalink
Post by Andrew
My Astra H Estate failed its MOT three years ago because the
centre lap belt had jammed after I put the rear seats back
up for its MOT. Had to pay £285 for a new belt/reel despite
never carrying passengers in the back (seats down all the
time the rest of the time).
I had a MOT failure for the same reason on a Ford Focus.

The belt was designed to lock if the bottom of the back seat was
incorrectly seated in the locating lugs. In my case putting the seat to
its vertical position had moved it forward by about quarter of an inch.
It took me about 30 minutes to find out about this and I was back at the
MOT station for my MOT within the hour.
--
mailto : news {at} admac {dot} myzen {dot} co {dot} uk
Rod Speed
2024-04-01 18:34:52 UTC
Permalink
On Mon, 01 Apr 2024 20:32:07 +1100, Colin Bignell
Post by Colin Bignell
Post by Rod Speed
On Mon, 01 Apr 2024 06:00:08 +1100, Colin Bignell
Post by Colin Bignell
Post by Rod Speed
On Mon, 01 Apr 2024 04:16:59 +1100, Colin Bignell
Post by Colin Bignell
Post by The Natural Philosopher
Post by Colin Bignell
My SAK is always in my pocket
Yiu will be charged for carrying a concealed offensive weapon.
It is a non-locking pocket knife with a blade not exceeding three
inches, so it can be carried without a valid reason. However,
submerged car escape tool could probably be put forward as one.
But an automatic center pop kept in the car would
work much better, particularly for women and kids
and would be completely legal.
Carrying kids would be illegal, as I don't have the requisite child
safety equipment,
Depends on the age of the kids.
Pre-teens and teens don't count as kids.
Corse pre teens do.
Post by Colin Bignell
Post by Rod Speed
Post by Colin Bignell
but the SAK is perfectly legal.
But much more risky of a woman or a kid to
use and very few of those carry one of those.
Even fewer travel in my car, so it is not a problem I need to worry about.
We weren't discussing you
Davey
2024-03-31 22:48:37 UTC
Permalink
Snip for brevity.
Post by Colin Bignell
Post by Paul
1) A glass-break device (a pointed hammer thingy, that breaks
safety glass). This helps with situations like
pressure-differential. Your door may be open, but it opens outwards
against the pressure. When you're ready to leave, you break the
driver window with hammer tap, and head for the surface.
2) A belt cutter. In case the release jams and you need to cut
yourself loose. May be helpful in a rollover, and you're inverted.
Alternatively, a Swiss Army knife. Several cutty things on that and
the device for removing Boy Scouts from horses' hooves, makes a handy
punch if you hold the body with it sticking out between a couple of
fingers.
Also, hit the glass near a bottom corner. I've watched a policeman's
truncheon bounce off a car window when he hit it really hard in the
centre. (A lady had locked her keys in the car and was desperate to get in).
Post by Paul
You can't have this just "anywhere" in the car. These items must be
within reach, and secured in such a way, they'll be where you
expect them to be. If you leave the devices in the back of the car,
they could be useless to you.
My SAK is always in my pocket (unless flying on a
commercialhttps://www.victorinox.com/en/Products/Swiss-Army-Knives/Large-Pocket-Knives/Rescue-Tool/p/0.8623.MWN
airline), secured to my belt with a chain and a snap clip. They are
expensive to replace if they fall out of the pocket.
snip

There is always this:
https://www.victorinox.com/en/Products/Swiss-Army-Knives/Large-Pocket-Knives/Rescue-Tool/p/0.8623.MWN
--
Davey.
Colin Bignell
2024-04-01 09:32:14 UTC
Permalink
Post by Davey
Snip for brevity.
Post by Colin Bignell
Post by Paul
1) A glass-break device (a pointed hammer thingy, that breaks
safety glass). This helps with situations like
pressure-differential. Your door may be open, but it opens outwards
against the pressure. When you're ready to leave, you break the
driver window with hammer tap, and head for the surface.
2) A belt cutter. In case the release jams and you need to cut
yourself loose. May be helpful in a rollover, and you're inverted.
Alternatively, a Swiss Army knife. Several cutty things on that and
the device for removing Boy Scouts from horses' hooves, makes a handy
punch if you hold the body with it sticking out between a couple of
fingers.
Also, hit the glass near a bottom corner. I've watched a policeman's
truncheon bounce off a car window when he hit it really hard in the
centre. (A lady had locked her keys in the car and was desperate to get in).
Post by Paul
You can't have this just "anywhere" in the car. These items must be
within reach, and secured in such a way, they'll be where you
expect them to be. If you leave the devices in the back of the car,
they could be useless to you.
My SAK is always in my pocket (unless flying on a
commercialhttps://www.victorinox.com/en/Products/Swiss-Army-Knives/Large-Pocket-Knives/Rescue-Tool/p/0.8623.MWN
airline), secured to my belt with a chain and a snap clip. They are
expensive to replace if they fall out of the pocket.
snip
https://www.victorinox.com/en/Products/Swiss-Army-Knives/Large-Pocket-Knives/Rescue-Tool/p/0.8623.MWN
Pity it is bright yellow though.
--
Colin Bignell
Davey
2024-04-01 10:33:46 UTC
Permalink
On Mon, 1 Apr 2024 10:32:14 +0100
Post by Colin Bignell
Post by Davey
Snip for brevity.
Post by Colin Bignell
Post by Paul
1) A glass-break device (a pointed hammer thingy, that breaks
safety glass). This helps with situations like
pressure-differential. Your door may be open, but it opens
outwards against the pressure. When you're ready to leave, you
break the driver window with hammer tap, and head for the surface.
2) A belt cutter. In case the release jams and you need to cut
yourself loose. May be helpful in a rollover, and you're
inverted.
Alternatively, a Swiss Army knife. Several cutty things on that and
the device for removing Boy Scouts from horses' hooves, makes a
handy punch if you hold the body with it sticking out between a
couple of fingers.
Also, hit the glass near a bottom corner. I've watched a
policeman's truncheon bounce off a car window when he hit it
really hard in the centre. (A lady had locked her keys in the car
and was desperate to get in).
Post by Paul
You can't have this just "anywhere" in the car. These items must
be within reach, and secured in such a way, they'll be where you
expect them to be. If you leave the devices in the back of the
car, they could be useless to you.
My SAK is always in my pocket (unless flying on a
commercialhttps://www.victorinox.com/en/Products/Swiss-Army-Knives/Large-Pocket-Knives/Rescue-Tool/p/0.8623.MWN
airline), secured to my belt with a chain and a snap clip. They are
expensive to replace if they fall out of the pocket.
snip
https://www.victorinox.com/en/Products/Swiss-Army-Knives/Large-Pocket-Knives/Rescue-Tool/p/0.8623.MWN
Pity it is bright yellow though.
At least you can see it in murky water.
--
Davey.
Colin Bignell
2024-04-01 12:22:05 UTC
Permalink
Post by Davey
On Mon, 1 Apr 2024 10:32:14 +0100
Post by Colin Bignell
Post by Davey
Snip for brevity.
Post by Colin Bignell
Post by Paul
1) A glass-break device (a pointed hammer thingy, that breaks
safety glass). This helps with situations like
pressure-differential. Your door may be open, but it opens
outwards against the pressure. When you're ready to leave, you
break the driver window with hammer tap, and head for the surface.
2) A belt cutter. In case the release jams and you need to cut
yourself loose. May be helpful in a rollover, and you're
inverted.
Alternatively, a Swiss Army knife. Several cutty things on that and
the device for removing Boy Scouts from horses' hooves, makes a
handy punch if you hold the body with it sticking out between a
couple of fingers.
Also, hit the glass near a bottom corner. I've watched a
policeman's truncheon bounce off a car window when he hit it
really hard in the centre. (A lady had locked her keys in the car
and was desperate to get in).
Post by Paul
You can't have this just "anywhere" in the car. These items must
be within reach, and secured in such a way, they'll be where you
expect them to be. If you leave the devices in the back of the
car, they could be useless to you.
My SAK is always in my pocket (unless flying on a
commercialhttps://www.victorinox.com/en/Products/Swiss-Army-Knives/Large-Pocket-Knives/Rescue-Tool/p/0.8623.MWN
airline), secured to my belt with a chain and a snap clip. They are
expensive to replace if they fall out of the pocket.
snip
https://www.victorinox.com/en/Products/Swiss-Army-Knives/Large-Pocket-Knives/Rescue-Tool/p/0.8623.MWN
Pity it is bright yellow though.
At least you can see it in murky water.
With a knife connected to my belt with a chain, I don't need to see it,
only feel it :-)
--
Colin Bignell
Davey
2024-04-01 17:43:16 UTC
Permalink
On Mon, 1 Apr 2024 13:22:05 +0100
Post by Colin Bignell
Post by Davey
On Mon, 1 Apr 2024 10:32:14 +0100
Post by Colin Bignell
Post by Davey
Snip for brevity.
Post by Colin Bignell
Post by Paul
1) A glass-break device (a pointed hammer thingy, that breaks
safety glass). This helps with situations like
pressure-differential. Your door may be open, but it opens
outwards against the pressure. When you're ready to leave, you
break the driver window with hammer tap, and head for the surface.
2) A belt cutter. In case the release jams and you need to cut
yourself loose. May be helpful in a rollover, and you're
inverted.
Alternatively, a Swiss Army knife. Several cutty things on that
and the device for removing Boy Scouts from horses' hooves,
makes a handy punch if you hold the body with it sticking out
between a couple of fingers.
Also, hit the glass near a bottom corner. I've watched a
policeman's truncheon bounce off a car window when he hit it
really hard in the centre. (A lady had locked her keys in the car
and was desperate to get in).
Post by Paul
You can't have this just "anywhere" in the car. These items must
be within reach, and secured in such a way, they'll be where you
expect them to be. If you leave the devices in the back of the
car, they could be useless to you.
My SAK is always in my pocket (unless flying on a
commercialhttps://www.victorinox.com/en/Products/Swiss-Army-Knives/Large-Pocket-Knives/Rescue-Tool/p/0.8623.MWN
airline), secured to my belt with a chain and a snap clip. They
are expensive to replace if they fall out of the pocket.
snip
https://www.victorinox.com/en/Products/Swiss-Army-Knives/Large-Pocket-Knives/Rescue-Tool/p/0.8623.MWN
Pity it is bright yellow though.
At least you can see it in murky water.
With a knife connected to my belt with a chain, I don't need to see
it, only feel it :-)
Most people will have this in the glovebox, not connected to them.
Except for the folk who keep it in the boot.......
--
Davey.
Nick Odell
2024-04-01 10:46:23 UTC
Permalink
On Mon, 1 Apr 2024 10:32:14 +0100, Colin Bignell
Post by Colin Bignell
Post by Davey
Snip for brevity.
Post by Colin Bignell
Post by Paul
1) A glass-break device (a pointed hammer thingy, that breaks
safety glass). This helps with situations like
pressure-differential. Your door may be open, but it opens outwards
against the pressure. When you're ready to leave, you break the
driver window with hammer tap, and head for the surface.
2) A belt cutter. In case the release jams and you need to cut
yourself loose. May be helpful in a rollover, and you're inverted.
Alternatively, a Swiss Army knife. Several cutty things on that and
the device for removing Boy Scouts from horses' hooves, makes a handy
punch if you hold the body with it sticking out between a couple of
fingers.
Also, hit the glass near a bottom corner. I've watched a policeman's
truncheon bounce off a car window when he hit it really hard in the
centre. (A lady had locked her keys in the car and was desperate to get in).
Post by Paul
You can't have this just "anywhere" in the car. These items must be
within reach, and secured in such a way, they'll be where you
expect them to be. If you leave the devices in the back of the car,
they could be useless to you.
My SAK is always in my pocket (unless flying on a
commercialhttps://www.victorinox.com/en/Products/Swiss-Army-Knives/Large-Pocket-Knives/Rescue-Tool/p/0.8623.MWN
airline), secured to my belt with a chain and a snap clip. They are
expensive to replace if they fall out of the pocket.
snip
https://www.victorinox.com/en/Products/Swiss-Army-Knives/Large-Pocket-Knives/Rescue-Tool/p/0.8623.MWN
Pity it is bright yellow though.
Without having followed the link, I presume that it is similar to the
sort of thing extreme watersports people carry to hack themselves out
of their kayak/raft/buoyancy aid/whatever in an emergency and they are
usually bright yellow to aid visibility in the murky depths of fast
rivers.

Just meandering back on track, these are all jolly useful ways of
getting around the problem of being able to get out of a locked car:
does that mean we concede modern car electronics make modern cars more
difficult to escape from than older, simpler models?

Nick
Rod Speed
2024-04-01 18:49:49 UTC
Permalink
Post by Nick Odell
On Mon, 1 Apr 2024 10:32:14 +0100, Colin Bignell
Post by Colin Bignell
Post by Davey
Snip for brevity.
Post by Colin Bignell
Post by Paul
1) A glass-break device (a pointed hammer thingy, that breaks
safety glass). This helps with situations like
pressure-differential. Your door may be open, but it opens outwards
against the pressure. When you're ready to leave, you break the
driver window with hammer tap, and head for the surface.
2) A belt cutter. In case the release jams and you need to cut
yourself loose. May be helpful in a rollover, and you're inverted.
Alternatively, a Swiss Army knife. Several cutty things on that and
the device for removing Boy Scouts from horses' hooves, makes a handy
punch if you hold the body with it sticking out between a couple of
fingers.
Also, hit the glass near a bottom corner. I've watched a policeman's
truncheon bounce off a car window when he hit it really hard in the
centre. (A lady had locked her keys in the car and was desperate to get in).
Post by Paul
You can't have this just "anywhere" in the car. These items must be
within reach, and secured in such a way, they'll be where you
expect them to be. If you leave the devices in the back of the car,
they could be useless to you.
My SAK is always in my pocket (unless flying on a
commercialhttps://www.victorinox.com/en/Products/Swiss-Army-Knives/Large-Pocket-Knives/Rescue-Tool/p/0.8623.MWN
airline), secured to my belt with a chain and a snap clip. They are
expensive to replace if they fall out of the pocket.
snip
https://www.victorinox.com/en/Products/Swiss-Army-Knives/Large-Pocket-Knives/Rescue-Tool/p/0.8623.MWN
Pity it is bright yellow though.
Without having followed the link, I presume that it is similar to the
sort of thing extreme watersports people carry to hack themselves out
of their kayak/raft/buoyancy aid/whatever in an emergency and they are
usually bright yellow to aid visibility in the murky depths of fast
rivers.
Just meandering back on track, these are all jolly useful ways of
does that mean we concede modern car electronics make modern cars more
difficult to escape from than older, simpler models?
Of course they are given that the dinosuars have manual wind down windows.
Nick Odell
2024-04-02 21:05:15 UTC
Permalink
On Tue, 02 Apr 2024 05:49:49 +1100, "Rod Speed"
Post by Rod Speed
Post by Nick Odell
On Mon, 1 Apr 2024 10:32:14 +0100, Colin Bignell
Post by Colin Bignell
Post by Davey
Snip for brevity.
Post by Colin Bignell
Post by Paul
1) A glass-break device (a pointed hammer thingy, that breaks
safety glass). This helps with situations like
pressure-differential. Your door may be open, but it opens outwards
against the pressure. When you're ready to leave, you break the
driver window with hammer tap, and head for the surface.
2) A belt cutter. In case the release jams and you need to cut
yourself loose. May be helpful in a rollover, and you're inverted.
Alternatively, a Swiss Army knife. Several cutty things on that and
the device for removing Boy Scouts from horses' hooves, makes a handy
punch if you hold the body with it sticking out between a couple of
fingers.
Also, hit the glass near a bottom corner. I've watched a policeman's
truncheon bounce off a car window when he hit it really hard in the
centre. (A lady had locked her keys in the car and was desperate to get in).
Post by Paul
You can't have this just "anywhere" in the car. These items must be
within reach, and secured in such a way, they'll be where you
expect them to be. If you leave the devices in the back of the car,
they could be useless to you.
My SAK is always in my pocket (unless flying on a
commercialhttps://www.victorinox.com/en/Products/Swiss-Army-Knives/Large-Pocket-Knives/Rescue-Tool/p/0.8623.MWN
airline), secured to my belt with a chain and a snap clip. They are
expensive to replace if they fall out of the pocket.
snip
https://www.victorinox.com/en/Products/Swiss-Army-Knives/Large-Pocket-Knives/Rescue-Tool/p/0.8623.MWN
Pity it is bright yellow though.
Without having followed the link, I presume that it is similar to the
sort of thing extreme watersports people carry to hack themselves out
of their kayak/raft/buoyancy aid/whatever in an emergency and they are
usually bright yellow to aid visibility in the murky depths of fast
rivers.
Just meandering back on track, these are all jolly useful ways of
does that mean we concede modern car electronics make modern cars more
difficult to escape from than older, simpler models?
Of course they are given that the dinosuars have manual wind down windows.
The main differences I'm thinking of - apart from fully manual actions
for everything - are that in Ye Olde Dayes, electrical systems were
operated by manual switch, relay or solenoid and the like and we have
already established that 12v systems seem capable of working when
submerged in fresh water. But modern car electrics are operated
through touchscreens and sensors and other on-board-computer input and
output devices and we all know what happens if you drop your computer
or your smartphone into the water. Are car electronic systems
sufficiently water resistant to avoid this?

Nick
Rod Speed
2024-04-02 21:57:37 UTC
Permalink
Post by Nick Odell
On Tue, 02 Apr 2024 05:49:49 +1100, "Rod Speed"
Post by Rod Speed
Post by Nick Odell
On Mon, 1 Apr 2024 10:32:14 +0100, Colin Bignell
Post by Colin Bignell
Post by Davey
Snip for brevity.
Post by Colin Bignell
Post by Paul
1) A glass-break device (a pointed hammer thingy, that breaks
safety glass). This helps with situations like
pressure-differential. Your door may be open, but it opens outwards
against the pressure. When you're ready to leave, you break the
driver window with hammer tap, and head for the surface.
2) A belt cutter. In case the release jams and you need to cut
yourself loose. May be helpful in a rollover, and you're inverted.
Alternatively, a Swiss Army knife. Several cutty things on that and
the device for removing Boy Scouts from horses' hooves, makes a handy
punch if you hold the body with it sticking out between a couple of
fingers.
Also, hit the glass near a bottom corner. I've watched a policeman's
truncheon bounce off a car window when he hit it really hard in the
centre. (A lady had locked her keys in the car and was desperate to get in).
Post by Paul
You can't have this just "anywhere" in the car. These items must be
within reach, and secured in such a way, they'll be where you
expect them to be. If you leave the devices in the back of the car,
they could be useless to you.
My SAK is always in my pocket (unless flying on a
commercialhttps://www.victorinox.com/en/Products/Swiss-Army-Knives/Large-Pocket-Knives/Rescue-Tool/p/0.8623.MWN
airline), secured to my belt with a chain and a snap clip. They are
expensive to replace if they fall out of the pocket.
snip
https://www.victorinox.com/en/Products/Swiss-Army-Knives/Large-Pocket-Knives/Rescue-Tool/p/0.8623.MWN
Pity it is bright yellow though.
Without having followed the link, I presume that it is similar to the
sort of thing extreme watersports people carry to hack themselves out
of their kayak/raft/buoyancy aid/whatever in an emergency and they are
usually bright yellow to aid visibility in the murky depths of fast
rivers.
Just meandering back on track, these are all jolly useful ways of
does that mean we concede modern car electronics make modern cars more
difficult to escape from than older, simpler models?
Of course they are given that the dinosuars have manual wind down windows.
The main differences I'm thinking of - apart from fully manual actions
for everything - are that in Ye Olde Dayes, electrical systems were
operated by manual switch, relay or solenoid and the like and we have
already established that 12v systems seem capable of working when
submerged in fresh water. But modern car electrics are operated
through touchscreens and sensors and other on-board-computer input and
output devices and we all know what happens if you drop your computer
or your smartphone into the water. Are car electronic systems
sufficiently water resistant to avoid this?
No they are not.

As someone else pointed out, you do sometimes see
the headlights still on when the car ends up in the water
but that's a different issue to whether using the switch
to tell the system to lower the window will still work
with the car in the water.

And even with the headlights, it is far from clear
whether all cars see the headlights continue to
shine when the car ends up in the water. Some
certainly do, but most don't go into the water
with the headlights on, most obviously with that
nortorious UK ford and that one doesnt usually
see cars floating with the occupants needing
to lower the windows so they can escape the
car to avoid drowning.
Davey
2024-04-02 22:24:21 UTC
Permalink
On Wed, 03 Apr 2024 08:57:37 +1100
Post by Rod Speed
most obviously with that
nortorious UK ford and that one doesnt usually
see cars floating with the occupants needing
to lower the windows so they can escape the
car to avoid drowning.
That's a shame. It would teach them a lesson.
--
Davey/
Colin Bignell
2024-04-02 22:01:03 UTC
Permalink
On 02/04/2024 22:05, Nick Odell wrote:
...
Post by Nick Odell
The main differences I'm thinking of - apart from fully manual actions
for everything - are that in Ye Olde Dayes, electrical systems were
operated by manual switch, relay or solenoid and the like and we have
already established that 12v systems seem capable of working when
submerged in fresh water. But modern car electrics are operated
through touchscreens and sensors and other on-board-computer input and
output devices and we all know what happens if you drop your computer
or your smartphone into the water.
Even without the protective case I fitted, my smartphone is rated for
immersion to a depth of one metre for up to 30 minutes.

Are car electronic systems
Post by Nick Odell
sufficiently water resistant to avoid this?
Nick
--
Colin Bignell
Max Demian
2024-04-03 09:30:51 UTC
Permalink
Post by Colin Bignell
...
Post by Nick Odell
The main differences I'm thinking of - apart from fully manual actions
for everything - are that in Ye Olde Dayes, electrical systems were
operated by manual switch, relay or solenoid and the like and we have
already established that 12v systems seem capable of working when
submerged in fresh water. But modern car electrics are operated
through touchscreens and sensors and other on-board-computer input and
output devices and we all know what happens if you drop your computer
or your smartphone into the water.
Even without the protective case I fitted, my smartphone is rated for
immersion to a depth of one metre for up to 30 minutes.
How do the sockets cope with this?
--
Max Demian
nib
2024-04-03 12:19:40 UTC
Permalink
Post by Max Demian
Post by Colin Bignell
...
Post by Nick Odell
The main differences I'm thinking of - apart from fully manual actions
for everything - are that in Ye Olde Dayes, electrical systems were
operated by manual switch, relay or solenoid and the like and we have
already established that 12v systems seem capable of working when
submerged in fresh water. But modern car electrics are operated
through touchscreens and sensors and other on-board-computer input and
output devices and we all know what happens if you drop your computer
or your smartphone into the water.
Even without the protective case I fitted, my smartphone is rated for
immersion to a depth of one metre for up to 30 minutes.
How do the sockets cope with this?
Sockets are probably not the problem, they can be sealed. Hardest is
probably mike and speaker?

nib
Max Demian
2024-04-03 16:32:19 UTC
Permalink
Post by nib
Post by Max Demian
Post by Colin Bignell
...
Post by Nick Odell
The main differences I'm thinking of - apart from fully manual actions
for everything - are that in Ye Olde Dayes, electrical systems were
operated by manual switch, relay or solenoid and the like and we have
already established that 12v systems seem capable of working when
submerged in fresh water. But modern car electrics are operated
through touchscreens and sensors and other on-board-computer input and
output devices and we all know what happens if you drop your computer
or your smartphone into the water.
Even without the protective case I fitted, my smartphone is rated for
immersion to a depth of one metre for up to 30 minutes.
How do the sockets cope with this?
Sockets are probably not the problem, they can be sealed. Hardest is
probably mike and speaker?
How do you seal a socket unless it has a rubber plug you can remove?

Microphones and speakers can transmit the vibrations through membranes.
--
Max Demian
The Natural Philosopher
2024-04-03 17:56:52 UTC
Permalink
Post by Max Demian
Post by nib
Post by Max Demian
Post by Colin Bignell
...
Post by Nick Odell
The main differences I'm thinking of - apart from fully manual actions
for everything - are that in Ye Olde Dayes, electrical systems were
operated by manual switch, relay or solenoid and the like and we have
already established that 12v systems seem capable of working when
submerged in fresh water. But modern car electrics are operated
through touchscreens and sensors and other on-board-computer input and
output devices and we all know what happens if you drop your computer
or your smartphone into the water.
Even without the protective case I fitted, my smartphone is rated
for immersion to a depth of one metre for up to 30 minutes.
How do the sockets cope with this?
Sockets are probably not the problem, they can be sealed. Hardest is
probably mike and speaker?
How do you seal a socket unless it has a rubber plug you can remove?
By slumping hot glue all over the wires inside it
Post by Max Demian
Microphones and speakers can transmit the vibrations through membranes.
--
“Ideas are inherently conservative. They yield not to the attack of
other ideas but to the massive onslaught of circumstance"

- John K Galbraith
Rod Speed
2024-04-03 18:04:35 UTC
Permalink
Post by Max Demian
Post by nib
Post by Max Demian
Post by Colin Bignell
...
Post by Nick Odell
The main differences I'm thinking of - apart from fully manual actions
for everything - are that in Ye Olde Dayes, electrical systems were
operated by manual switch, relay or solenoid and the like and we have
already established that 12v systems seem capable of working when
submerged in fresh water. But modern car electrics are operated
through touchscreens and sensors and other on-board-computer input and
output devices and we all know what happens if you drop your computer
or your smartphone into the water.
Even without the protective case I fitted, my smartphone is rated for
immersion to a depth of one metre for up to 30 minutes.
How do the sockets cope with this?
Sockets are probably not the problem, they can be sealed. Hardest is
probably mike and speaker?
How do you seal a socket unless it has a rubber plug you can remove?
The back of the socket inside the phone is trivial to make
waterproof, with the contacts exposed to the outside in the hole.
Post by Max Demian
Microphones and speakers can transmit the vibrations through membranes.
And can be designed to not care about water.
Max Demian
2024-04-04 09:41:23 UTC
Permalink
Post by Rod Speed
Post by Max Demian
Post by nib
Post by Max Demian
Post by Colin Bignell
Even without the protective case I fitted, my smartphone is rated
for immersion to a depth of one metre for up to 30 minutes.
How do the sockets cope with this?
Sockets are probably not the problem, they can be sealed. Hardest is
probably mike and speaker?
How do you seal a socket unless it has a rubber plug you can remove?
The back of the socket inside the phone is trivial to make
waterproof, with the contacts exposed to the outside in the hole.
What if you plug a charger lead in when the hole is still wet?
--
Max Demian
Tim Streater
2024-04-04 10:06:01 UTC
Permalink
Post by Max Demian
Post by Rod Speed
Post by Max Demian
Post by nib
Post by Max Demian
Post by Colin Bignell
Even without the protective case I fitted, my smartphone is rated
for immersion to a depth of one metre for up to 30 minutes.
How do the sockets cope with this?
Sockets are probably not the problem, they can be sealed. Hardest is
probably mike and speaker?
How do you seal a socket unless it has a rubber plug you can remove?
The back of the socket inside the phone is trivial to make
waterproof, with the contacts exposed to the outside in the hole.
What if you plug a charger lead in when the hole is still wet?
Provided that the socket is properly sealed and the fluid is not paticularly
conductive, I'd expect it to charge the device.
--
Anyone who slaps a 'this page is best viewed with Browser X' label on a Web page appears to be yearning for the bad old days, before the Web, when you had very little chance of reading a document written on another computer, another word processor, or another network.

-- Tim Berners-Lee
The Natural Philosopher
2024-04-04 14:12:09 UTC
Permalink
Post by Max Demian
On Thu, 04 Apr 2024 03:32:19 +1100, Max Demian
Post by Max Demian
Post by nib
Post by Max Demian
Post by Colin Bignell
Even without the protective case I fitted, my smartphone is rated
for immersion to a depth of one metre for up to 30 minutes.
How do the sockets cope with this?
Sockets are probably not the problem, they can be sealed. Hardest is
probably mike and speaker?
How do you seal a socket unless it has a rubber plug you can remove?
The back of the socket inside the phone is trivial to make
waterproof, with the contacts exposed to the outside in the hole.
What if you plug a charger lead in when the hole is still wet?
No big deal unless its very salt water. Most electronics will work after
a soaking from fresh water.
--
The New Left are the people they warned you about.
Rod Speed
2024-04-04 16:34:44 UTC
Permalink
Post by Max Demian
Post by Rod Speed
Post by Max Demian
Post by nib
Post by Max Demian
Post by Colin Bignell
Even without the protective case I fitted, my smartphone is rated
for immersion to a depth of one metre for up to 30 minutes.
How do the sockets cope with this?
Sockets are probably not the problem, they can be sealed. Hardest is
probably mike and speaker?
How do you seal a socket unless it has a rubber plug you can remove?
The back of the socket inside the phone is trivial to make
waterproof, with the contacts exposed to the outside in the hole.
What if you plug a charger lead in when the hole is still wet?
No big deal given the voltage involved.
Colin Bignell
2024-04-03 17:17:08 UTC
Permalink
Post by Max Demian
Post by Colin Bignell
...
Post by Nick Odell
The main differences I'm thinking of - apart from fully manual actions
for everything - are that in Ye Olde Dayes, electrical systems were
operated by manual switch, relay or solenoid and the like and we have
already established that 12v systems seem capable of working when
submerged in fresh water. But modern car electrics are operated
through touchscreens and sensors and other on-board-computer input and
output devices and we all know what happens if you drop your computer
or your smartphone into the water.
Even without the protective case I fitted, my smartphone is rated for
immersion to a depth of one metre for up to 30 minutes.
How do the sockets cope with this?
I am simply taking that from the manufacturer's specs, which says it is
rated IP67. That does allow limited water ingress, but with no harmful
effects. Presumably, that means that any water that gets into the
sockets won't damage anything.

The case I put it, however, has flexible covers over all sockets and is
supposed to be waterproof to 10 metres. I bought it for the extra impact
protection though. Phones have a habit of falling out of my shirt breast
pocket.
--
Colin Bignell
Rod Speed
2024-04-03 18:06:19 UTC
Permalink
Post by Max Demian
Post by Colin Bignell
...
Post by Nick Odell
The main differences I'm thinking of - apart from fully manual actions
for everything - are that in Ye Olde Dayes, electrical systems were
operated by manual switch, relay or solenoid and the like and we have
already established that 12v systems seem capable of working when
submerged in fresh water. But modern car electrics are operated
through touchscreens and sensors and other on-board-computer input and
output devices and we all know what happens if you drop your computer
or your smartphone into the water.
Even without the protective case I fitted, my smartphone is rated for
immersion to a depth of one metre for up to 30 minutes.
How do the sockets cope with this?
There is only one socket on most current phone, just the
charging socket and its easy to make that waterproof.
wasbit
2024-04-03 09:09:29 UTC
Permalink
snip <
The main differences I'm thinking of - apart from fully manual actions
for everything - are that in Ye Olde Dayes, electrical systems were
operated by manual switch, relay or solenoid and the like and we have
already established that 12v systems seem capable of working when
submerged in fresh water. But modern car electrics are operated
through touchscreens and sensors and other on-board-computer input and
output devices and we all know what happens if you drop your computer
or your smartphone into the water. Are car electronic systems
sufficiently water resistant to avoid this?
There were competitions to see what liquids could be used to submerge a
working desktop PC, IIRC, starting with distilled water then various oils.
--
Regards
wasbit
wasbit
2024-04-03 09:43:45 UTC
Permalink
Post by wasbit
snip <
The main differences I'm thinking of - apart from fully manual actions
for everything - are that in Ye Olde Dayes, electrical systems were
operated by manual switch, relay or solenoid and the like and we have
already established that 12v systems seem capable of working when
submerged in fresh water. But modern car electrics are operated
through touchscreens and sensors and other on-board-computer input and
output devices and we all know what happens if you drop your computer
or your smartphone into the water. Are car electronic systems
sufficiently water resistant to avoid this?
There were competitions to see what liquids could be used to submerge a
working desktop PC, IIRC, starting with distilled water then various oils.
Eg. https://www.pugetsystems.com/mineral-oil-pc/
--
Regards
wasbit
The Natural Philosopher
2024-04-03 10:15:22 UTC
Permalink
Post by Nick Odell
Are car electronic systems
sufficiently water resistant to avoid this?
The answer is mostly 'yes, for a short while'

Nearly all computer modules are sealed. Underbonnet can get serious
splashes (remember the dreaded Mini distributor) ...but no seal will
take pressure for very long.
--
WOKE is an acronym... Without Originality, Knowledge or Education.
Andy Burns
2024-04-01 12:12:25 UTC
Permalink
Post by Colin Bignell
<https://www.victorinox.com/en/Products/Swiss-Army-Knives/Large-Pocket-Knives/Rescue-Tool/p/0.8623.MWN>
Pity it is bright yellow though.
It's also phosphorescent.
The Natural Philosopher
2024-04-01 12:43:40 UTC
Permalink
Post by Andy Burns
Post by Colin Bignell
<https://www.victorinox.com/en/Products/Swiss-Army-Knives/Large-Pocket-Knives/Rescue-Tool/p/0.8623.MWN>
Pity it is bright yellow though.
It's also phosphorescent.
I am not sure that is the right word for dayglo
Fluorescent is the term I think
--
How fortunate for governments that the people they administer don't think.

Adolf Hitler
Jethro_uk
2024-04-01 09:55:23 UTC
Permalink
That's all very well. However when Mythbusters played around with ways to
escape a submerged car, the biggest problem was the disorientation of
[Adam Savage] going in. And as they pointed out he was expecting it and
prepared.

IIRC there are also some CoG factors that will try to upend a car going
into the water - certainly an ICE with a heavy engine and gearbox at the
front.
tony sayer
2024-04-01 17:46:24 UTC
Permalink
Post by Jethro_uk
That's all very well. However when Mythbusters played around with ways to
escape a submerged car, the biggest problem was the disorientation of
[Adam Savage] going in. And as they pointed out he was expecting it and
prepared.
IIRC there are also some CoG factors that will try to upend a car going
into the water - certainly an ICE with a heavy engine and gearbox at the
front.
Begs the question what about an electric car?

Or has no one done that yet?..

On an ordinary car, wouldn't you be able to wind the windows down?

I mean 12 volts and it'd take a while before the water got anywhere that
sensitive surely?..
--
Tony Sayer


Man is least himself when he talks in his own person.

Give him a keyboard, and he will reveal himself.
Rod Speed
2024-04-01 19:06:29 UTC
Permalink
Post by tony sayer
Post by Jethro_uk
That's all very well. However when Mythbusters played around with ways to
escape a submerged car, the biggest problem was the disorientation of
[Adam Savage] going in. And as they pointed out he was expecting it and
prepared.
IIRC there are also some CoG factors that will try to upend a car going
into the water - certainly an ICE with a heavy engine and gearbox at the
front.
Begs the question what about an electric car?
Or has no one done that yet?..
Yes they have. There is one of facebook that managed to
end up floating in the water with flames coming out when
the stupid woman driver managed to end up like that after
attempting to launch a couple of jet skis on a trailer.

Fortunately for her her hubby managed
to rescue her using the jet ski.
Post by tony sayer
On an ordinary car, wouldn't you be able to wind the windows down?
I mean 12 volts and it'd take a while before the water got anywhere that
sensitive surely?..
I thought that but wondered if you could end up with
the water shorting something involved in delivering
12V to the motor that moves the window particularly
if you end up in sea water.
Tim+
2024-04-01 19:17:36 UTC
Permalink
Post by tony sayer
Post by Jethro_uk
That's all very well. However when Mythbusters played around with ways to
escape a submerged car, the biggest problem was the disorientation of
[Adam Savage] going in. And as they pointed out he was expecting it and
prepared.
IIRC there are also some CoG factors that will try to upend a car going
into the water - certainly an ICE with a heavy engine and gearbox at the
front.
Begs the question what about an electric car?
Probably better balanced due to the battery pack.
Post by tony sayer
Or has no one done that yet?..
On an ordinary car, wouldn't you be able to wind the windows down?
I would have thought so. Numerous videos of cars submerged in fresh and
sea water show lights still working. I imagine most of the time electric
windows will still work.

Tim
--
Please don't feed the trolls
SteveW
2024-04-01 23:38:07 UTC
Permalink
Post by tony sayer
Post by Jethro_uk
That's all very well. However when Mythbusters played around with ways to
escape a submerged car, the biggest problem was the disorientation of
[Adam Savage] going in. And as they pointed out he was expecting it and
prepared.
IIRC there are also some CoG factors that will try to upend a car going
into the water - certainly an ICE with a heavy engine and gearbox at the
front.
Begs the question what about an electric car?
Or has no one done that yet?..
On an ordinary car, wouldn't you be able to wind the windows down?
I mean 12 volts and it'd take a while before the water got anywhere that
sensitive surely?..
EVs are just the same as ICE cars - they have a 12V battery to run
everything except the car's traction motor.

All cars with electric windows can have the electrics fail if they are
immersed.
Tim+
2024-04-02 06:42:10 UTC
Permalink
Post by SteveW
Post by tony sayer
Post by Jethro_uk
That's all very well. However when Mythbusters played around with ways to
escape a submerged car, the biggest problem was the disorientation of
[Adam Savage] going in. And as they pointed out he was expecting it and
prepared.
IIRC there are also some CoG factors that will try to upend a car going
into the water - certainly an ICE with a heavy engine and gearbox at the
front.
Begs the question what about an electric car?
Or has no one done that yet?..
On an ordinary car, wouldn't you be able to wind the windows down?
I mean 12 volts and it'd take a while before the water got anywhere that
sensitive surely?..
EVs are just the same as ICE cars - they have a 12V battery to run
everything except the car's traction motor.
All cars with electric windows can have the electrics fail if they are
immersed.
Yes, but it’s clear from videos that it doesn’t happen immediately.

Tim
--
Please don't feed the trolls
The Natural Philosopher
2024-04-02 11:22:35 UTC
Permalink
Post by tony sayer
Post by Jethro_uk
That's all very well. However when Mythbusters played around with ways to
escape a submerged car, the biggest problem was the disorientation of
[Adam Savage] going in. And as they pointed out he was expecting it and
prepared.
IIRC there are also some CoG factors that will try to upend a car going
into the water - certainly an ICE with a heavy engine and gearbox at the
front.
Begs the question what about an electric car?
Or has no one done that yet?..
On an ordinary car, wouldn't you be able to wind the windows down?
I mean 12 volts and it'd take a while before the water got anywhere that
sensitive surely?..
electricals are fine, but electronics are not.

it depends whether or not the switches go straight to the door motors,
or have some electronic interface.
--
To ban Christmas, simply give turkeys the vote.
SteveW
2024-04-02 12:34:10 UTC
Permalink
Post by The Natural Philosopher
Post by tony sayer
Post by Jethro_uk
That's all very well. However when Mythbusters played around with ways to
escape a submerged car, the biggest problem was the disorientation of
[Adam Savage] going in. And as they pointed out he was expecting it and
prepared.
IIRC there are also some CoG factors that will try to upend a car going
into the water - certainly an ICE with a heavy engine and gearbox at the
front.
Begs the question what about an electric car?
Or has no one done that yet?..
On an ordinary car, wouldn't you be able to wind the windows down?
I mean 12 volts and it'd take a while before the water got anywhere that
sensitive surely?..
electricals are fine, but electronics are not.
it depends whether or not the switches go straight to the door motors,
or have some electronic interface.
They likely all go through electronics first. The switches being just
another set of inputs ... on many cars you can close or open all the
windows, when locking the car or unlocking it on a hot day, by holding
the close or open button on the key-fob. It'll just be the security
system passing a command to (what on my car is called) the "body control
ECU", which operates windows, door locks, interior light and many other
features.
tony sayer
2024-04-03 18:12:03 UTC
Permalink
Post by The Natural Philosopher
Post by tony sayer
Post by Jethro_uk
That's all very well. However when Mythbusters played around with ways to
escape a submerged car, the biggest problem was the disorientation of
[Adam Savage] going in. And as they pointed out he was expecting it and
prepared.
IIRC there are also some CoG factors that will try to upend a car going
into the water - certainly an ICE with a heavy engine and gearbox at the
front.
Begs the question what about an electric car?
Or has no one done that yet?..
On an ordinary car, wouldn't you be able to wind the windows down?
I mean 12 volts and it'd take a while before the water got anywhere that
sensitive surely?..
electricals are fine, but electronics are not.
it depends whether or not the switches go straight to the door motors,
or have some electronic interface.
Has anyone dun any research with the vehicles at Rufford Ford or is
that closed now?...
--
Tony Sayer


Man is least himself when he talks in his own person.

Give him a keyboard, and he will reveal himself.
Theo
2024-04-04 14:55:30 UTC
Permalink
Post by The Natural Philosopher
Post by tony sayer
Post by Jethro_uk
That's all very well. However when Mythbusters played around with ways to
escape a submerged car, the biggest problem was the disorientation of
[Adam Savage] going in. And as they pointed out he was expecting it and
prepared.
IIRC there are also some CoG factors that will try to upend a car going
into the water - certainly an ICE with a heavy engine and gearbox at the
front.
Begs the question what about an electric car?
Or has no one done that yet?..
On an ordinary car, wouldn't you be able to wind the windows down?
I mean 12 volts and it'd take a while before the water got anywhere that
sensitive surely?..
electricals are fine, but electronics are not.
it depends whether or not the switches go straight to the door motors,
or have some electronic interface.
Also depends whether the airbags deploy. If so, the airbag ECU can blow a
pyro fuse on the 12V battery to disconnect the electrical system in the
event of an impact. eg if you went through the crash barrier into water the
airbags could blow the pyro when you hit the barrier so the car is
de-powered when it hits the water.

As well as EVs and hybrids (which use pyros to de-power the HV system), a
number of ICE cars have pyros now - eg Audis and BMWs.

It's a bit surprising cars don't have easily-accessible escape hammers like
they do with buses and trains - eg under the seat.

Theo
Andy Burns
2024-04-04 15:06:14 UTC
Permalink
Post by Theo
As well as EVs and hybrids (which use pyros to de-power the HV system), a
number of ICE cars have pyros now - eg Audis and BMWs.
But from repair videos I've seen, on ICE cars the pyro fuse tends to
isolate the starter motor, rather than everything ...
The Natural Philosopher
2024-04-04 18:24:43 UTC
Permalink
Post by Andy Burns
Post by Theo
As well as EVs and hybrids (which use pyros to de-power the HV system), a
number of ICE cars have pyros now - eg Audis and BMWs.
But from repair videos I've seen, on ICE cars the pyro fuse tends to
isolate the starter motor, rather than everything ...
And fresh water and 12V wont blow any fuses, anyway
--
Canada is all right really, though not for the whole weekend.

"Saki"
nick
2024-04-05 21:41:30 UTC
Permalink
Post by Theo
Post by The Natural Philosopher
Post by tony sayer
Post by Jethro_uk
That's all very well. However when Mythbusters played around with ways to
escape a submerged car, the biggest problem was the disorientation of
[Adam Savage] going in. And as they pointed out he was expecting it and
prepared.
IIRC there are also some CoG factors that will try to upend a car going
into the water - certainly an ICE with a heavy engine and gearbox at the
front.
Begs the question what about an electric car?
Or has no one done that yet?..
On an ordinary car, wouldn't you be able to wind the windows down?
I mean 12 volts and it'd take a while before the water got anywhere that
sensitive surely?..
electricals are fine, but electronics are not.
it depends whether or not the switches go straight to the door motors,
or have some electronic interface.
Also depends whether the airbags deploy. If so, the airbag ECU can blow a
pyro fuse on the 12V battery to disconnect the electrical system in the
event of an impact. eg if you went through the crash barrier into water the
airbags could blow the pyro when you hit the barrier so the car is
de-powered when it hits the water.
As well as EVs and hybrids (which use pyros to de-power the HV system), a
number of ICE cars have pyros now - eg Audis and BMWs.
It's a bit surprising cars don't have easily-accessible escape hammers like
they do with buses and trains - eg under the seat.
A few years back I gave the family "Under-the-tree" Christmas presents - you
know, the little extra presents that are not the main one - of an escape
hammer/USB charge socket combination. The idea is that it's always available
because it's plugged into the 12v accessory socket formerly known as the
cigar lighter socket. It's not a long hammery-shaped thing but a
hold-in-the-palm-of-your-hand heavy mass with a glass-breaking point on the
end. None of them have been tested in real life, I'm pleased to say.

Nick

Rod Speed
2024-04-01 18:37:03 UTC
Permalink
Post by Jethro_uk
That's all very well. However when Mythbusters played around with ways to
escape a submerged car, the biggest problem was the disorientation of
[Adam Savage] going in. And as they pointed out he was expecting it and
prepared.
IIRC there are also some CoG factors that will try to upend a car going
into the water - certainly an ICE with a heavy engine and gearbox at the
front.
You hardly ever see cars lost in a flood upended.
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