Blink doorbell camera and battery powered chime

Discussion:

(too old to reply)

larkim

2022-10-11 11:46:41 UTC

Knowing full well I didn't have a mains wired chime to meet the spec in the blink doorbell camera, I bought one anyone as I liked the idea.

What I do have at home is a very simple Byron battery operated doorbell - a pushbutton switch, doorbell wiring to the two terminals on the chime unit and 2xC or D batteries which make the bell "ring" in a buzzer style (i.e high frequency hitting a bell until the bell push button is released).

When I got the Blink doorbell I experimented with wiring the two contacts on the Blink doorbell to the Byron chime; I assumed that as all the Blink was doing was opening / closing a circuit that this would be sufficient to make my bell chime.

Unfortunately it is not working. I can test with a multimeter than pressing the blink chime does indeed open the circuit, but "something" means that this doesn't cause the doorbell to ring. Given that simply bringing the two doorbell wires together does cause the ring, there's something else going on, but my knowledge of electronics is insufficient to help me out.

I *think* it is something like the blink camera's terminals not going sufficiently "dead" for the PCB in the Byron chime to reset, so when the circuit is re-opened it can't start the ringing process.

If that is the case, I was thinking that there must be a simple in-line component that I could put in place which would "cleanly" open and close the circuit based on what the Blink cameras terminals do.

Is this a likely feasible way forward, and / or what could I do to test what is really "happening"?

Dave W

2022-10-11 19:34:23 UTC

Permalink

On Tue, 11 Oct 2022 04:46:41 -0700 (PDT), larkim

Post by larkim
Knowing full well I didn't have a mains wired chime to meet the spec in the blink doorbell camera, I bought one anyone as I liked the idea.
What I do have at home is a very simple Byron battery operated doorbell - a pushbutton switch, doorbell wiring to the two terminals on the chime unit and 2xC or D batteries which make the bell "ring" in a buzzer style (i.e high frequency hitting a bell until the bell push button is released).
When I got the Blink doorbell I experimented with wiring the two contacts on the Blink doorbell to the Byron chime; I assumed that as all the Blink was doing was opening / closing a circuit that this would be sufficient to make my bell chime.
Unfortunately it is not working. I can test with a multimeter than pressing the blink chime does indeed open the circuit, but "something" means that this doesn't cause the doorbell to ring. Given that simply bringing the two doorbell wires together does cause the ring, there's something else going on, but my knowledge of electronics is insufficient to help me out.
I *think* it is something like the blink camera's terminals not going sufficiently "dead" for the PCB in the Byron chime to reset, so when the circuit is re-opened it can't start the ringing process.
If that is the case, I was thinking that there must be a simple in-line component that I could put in place which would "cleanly" open and close the circuit based on what the Blink cameras terminals do.
Is this a likely feasible way forward, and / or what could I do to test what is really "happening"?

I have a doorbell with 2 D-cells. I recently had a problem where the
bell would only give one weak ping when the button was pressed. I
found that the current when I shorted the wires was about 2A
initially, but the bell push had got corroded and was too resistive to
pass that much. My solution was to solder gold contacts into the bell
push, which should now withstand damp weather.

The Blink doorbell seems to send a radio signal and switch its camera
on when the button is pressed. It's powered by internal batteries so
won't work and could be damaged if you feed it 3V from your Byron
batteries. It's contacts are only good for a few mA and unlikely to
work your bell.

The sounder plays a recording so you can't work your Byron bell by
some connection to the Bling sounder. I very much doubt they go to the
expense of putting a mechanical relay in there which could be used to
ring your Byron bell.

I don't like these smart bells because they trigger the same long
sound no matter how the button is pressed, so you have no idea how
despe

Brian Gaff

2022-10-12 17:02:58 UTC

Permalink

Actually, its kind of like, if I were going there, I'd not start from here.
Can you not just fit a motion activated camera and a normal bell push as
before? The problem with a lot of wireless door intercoms seem to be that
one cannot open the system from inside, only when the bell has been pushed
to call the remote unit, so I'm rethinking my system as the outside unit
makes a noiseeven when the remote is out of range, so some tie in to a
mobile phone would seem to be the way to go, perhaps via bluetooth, which
seems to have more range than the intercom.
Brian
--
--:
This newsgroup posting comes to you directly from...
The Sofa of Brian Gaff...
***@blueyonder.co.uk
Blind user, so no pictures please
Note this Signature is meaningless.!

Post by Dave W
On Tue, 11 Oct 2022 04:46:41 -0700 (PDT), larkim

Post by larkim
Knowing full well I didn't have a mains wired chime to meet the spec in
the blink doorbell camera, I bought one anyone as I liked the idea.
What I do have at home is a very simple Byron battery operated doorbell -
a pushbutton switch, doorbell wiring to the two terminals on the chime
unit and 2xC or D batteries which make the bell "ring" in a buzzer style
(i.e high frequency hitting a bell until the bell push button is
released).
When I got the Blink doorbell I experimented with wiring the two contacts
on the Blink doorbell to the Byron chime; I assumed that as all the Blink
was doing was opening / closing a circuit that this would be sufficient to
make my bell chime.
Unfortunately it is not working. I can test with a multimeter than
pressing the blink chime does indeed open the circuit, but "something"
means that this doesn't cause the doorbell to ring. Given that simply
bringing the two doorbell wires together does cause the ring, there's
something else going on, but my knowledge of electronics is insufficient
to help me out.
I *think* it is something like the blink camera's terminals not going
sufficiently "dead" for the PCB in the Byron chime to reset, so when the
circuit is re-opened it can't start the ringing process.
If that is the case, I was thinking that there must be a simple in-line
component that I could put in place which would "cleanly" open and close
the circuit based on what the Blink cameras terminals do.
Is this a likely feasible way forward, and / or what could I do to test
what is really "happening"?

I have a doorbell with 2 D-cells. I recently had a problem where the
bell would only give one weak ping when the button was pressed. I
found that the current when I shorted the wires was about 2A
initially, but the bell push had got corroded and was too resistive to
pass that much. My solution was to solder gold contacts into the bell
push, which should now withstand damp weather.
The Blink doorbell seems to send a radio signal and switch its camera
on when the button is pressed. It's powered by internal batteries so
won't work and could be damaged if you feed it 3V from your Byron
batteries. It's contacts are only good for a few mA and unlikely to
work your bell.
The sounder plays a recording so you can't work your Byron bell by
some connection to the Bling sounder. I very much doubt they go to the
expense of putting a mechanical relay in there which could be used to
ring your Byron bell.
I don't like these smart bells because they trigger the same long
sound no matter how the button is pressed, so you have no idea how
desperate the caller is!
--
Dave W

larkim

2022-10-13 07:30:42 UTC

Permalink

Post by Brian Gaff
Actually, its kind of like, if I were going there, I'd not start from here.
Can you not just fit a motion activated camera and a normal bell push as
before? The problem with a lot of wireless door intercoms seem to be that
one cannot open the system from inside, only when the bell has been pushed
to call the remote unit, so I'm rethinking my system as the outside unit
makes a noiseeven when the remote is out of range, so some tie in to a
mobile phone would seem to be the way to go, perhaps via bluetooth, which
seems to have more range than the intercom.
Brian

Maybe.

But there are other contextual reasons for the purchase.

a) I already have other Blink infrastructure and
b) For a variety of reasons it was free!

So I've got a rationale for investing time (if not necessarily money)
in finding a solution!

Theo

2022-10-11 19:57:20 UTC

Permalink

Post by larkim
I *think* it is something like the blink camera's terminals not going
sufficiently "dead" for the PCB in the Byron chime to reset, so when the
circuit is re-opened it can't start the ringing process.

According to:
https://support.blinkforhome.com/en_US/blink-video-doorbell-information/blink-video-doorbell-wired-installation
it's expecting a bell transformer providing:
16 - 24 volts AC at 50 - 60Hz, and 40VA maximum.
(that's US, normally UK doorbells are 8v or 12v AC. Not sure if they have
adjusted the product or they just assume we're all like them)

Your batteries are giving 3V DC. I suspect that means it can't tell when
the bell push is 'released', as there is never enough voltage on the line.
It's looking for 16V across the terminals to indicate the circuit is open
(button not pushed) and it never sees that.

Post by larkim
If that is the case, I was thinking that there must be a simple in-line
component that I could put in place which would "cleanly" open and close
the circuit based on what the Blink cameras terminals do.

It's hard to have both a thing that expects 16v AC and a bell that can only
cope with 3V DC before burning out. You could put 16v AC across the bell
push and then step that down and rectify it to 3V DC, but it would be simpler
to get a bell transformer and a 16-24V chime.

It's possible it'll cope with a higher DC voltage, like a pair of 9V
batteries giving 18V, and maybe that will be correctly detected. But you'd
then need a chime capable of running from 18V DC. You could regulate the
18V down to 3V but the batteries wouldn't last long.

I would probably be looking at hard wiring here and changing the chime.
You can get plug-in bell transformers which would mean you'd only need to go
as far as a socket, not back to the fusebox.

Theo

larkim

2022-10-12 07:08:02 UTC

Permalink

Post by Theo

https://support.blinkforhome.com/en_US/blink-video-doorbell-information/blink-video-doorbell-wired-installation
16 - 24 volts AC at 50 - 60Hz, and 40VA maximum.
(that's US, normally UK doorbells are 8v or 12v AC. Not sure if they have
adjusted the product or they just assume we're all like them)
Your batteries are giving 3V DC. I suspect that means it can't tell when
the bell push is 'released', as there is never enough voltage on the line.
It's looking for 16V across the terminals to indicate the circuit is open
(button not pushed) and it never sees that.

It's hard to have both a thing that expects 16v AC and a bell that can only
cope with 3V DC before burning out. You could put 16v AC across the bell
push and then step that down and rectify it to 3V DC, but it would be simpler
to get a bell transformer and a 16-24V chime.
It's possible it'll cope with a higher DC voltage, like a pair of 9V
batteries giving 18V, and maybe that will be correctly detected. But you'd
then need a chime capable of running from 18V DC. You could regulate the
18V down to 3V but the batteries wouldn't last long.
I would probably be looking at hard wiring here and changing the chime.
You can get plug-in bell transformers which would mean you'd only need to go
as far as a socket, not back to the fusebox.
Theo

Theo, thanks. I must admit the electronics is beyond me!

As I posted, I know what I've got is out of spec, but I'm pretty sure that what is in the
camera is a simple relay that opens and closes a circuit so surely that can mimic
the pushing of a button?

I'll post a video of the various outputs that I can see via a multimeter when a button
is pressed and perhaps that can help find a way.

A battery chime is the only available option for me in the location available, certainly
without making a big ol' mess in an area with limited neat cabling opportunities and
not much access to power!

Theo

2022-10-12 10:08:25 UTC

Permalink

Post by larkim
Theo, thanks. I must admit the electronics is beyond me!
As I posted, I know what I've got is out of spec, but I'm pretty sure that what is in the
camera is a simple relay that opens and closes a circuit so surely that can mimic
the pushing of a button?
I'll post a video of the various outputs that I can see via a multimeter when a button
is pressed and perhaps that can help find a way.

Just to clarify, some of the smart doorbells are wired in a setup with the
existing bell push, transformer and existing chime. The push and chime work
as normal, but the smart doorbell feeds off the line to take power and
detects if the bell has been pushed (ie the line power goes away). That's
the kind of setup I was thinking of.

If the chime is just an actuator, ie you remove your old button and instead
there's a button on the smart bell that you push, and it's just intended to
close a relay contact to mimic the button but without any powering or
voltage detection stuff, then it's possible it'll work with your 3V setup.
But it may be it's trying to be clever and thinks there's a fault because
it can't see enough voltage on the line.

Does the app/etc give you any feedback about problems?

Theo

Paul

2022-10-12 11:18:35 UTC

Permalink

Post by larkim

Post by Theo

It's hard to have both a thing that expects 16v AC and a bell that can only
cope with 3V DC before burning out. You could put 16v AC across the bell
push and then step that down and rectify it to 3V DC, but it would be simpler
to get a bell transformer and a 16-24V chime.
It's possible it'll cope with a higher DC voltage, like a pair of 9V
batteries giving 18V, and maybe that will be correctly detected. But you'd
then need a chime capable of running from 18V DC. You could regulate the
18V down to 3V but the batteries wouldn't last long.
I would probably be looking at hard wiring here and changing the chime.
You can get plug-in bell transformers which would mean you'd only need to go
as far as a socket, not back to the fusebox.
Theo

Theo, thanks. I must admit the electronics is beyond me!
As I posted, I know what I've got is out of spec, but I'm pretty sure that what is in the
camera is a simple relay that opens and closes a circuit so surely that can mimic
the pushing of a button?
I'll post a video of the various outputs that I can see via a multimeter when a button
is pressed and perhaps that can help find a way.
A battery chime is the only available option for me in the location available, certainly
without making a big ol' mess in an area with limited neat cabling opportunities and
not much access to power!

You have some choices on device type.

https://www.amazon.co.uk/blink-video-doorbell-two-way-audio-hd-video-motion-and-chime-app-alerts-easy-setup-and-alexa-enabled/dp/B08SG68DY9?th=1

"With a Sync Module or compatible wiring, your battery life extends to 2 years, and
you can start Live View or take thumbnails in the Blink app.

Without a wired connection or a Sync Module, you enter Event Response mode where
you only receive motion alert and doorbell press notifications, and you must tap
a notification within 60 seconds to enter Live View with two-way talk.
[This implies camera is running continuously, on battery?]
"

And there is some subscription thing that eventually
might enter the picture.

"Choose to save and share clips in the cloud with a free trial
of the Blink Subscription Plan,

or locally with the Sync Module 2 and USB drive (each sold separately).

Trial valid until January 2023. You will be notified at least 30 days
before your free trial expires with information on how to subscribe.
"

Sometimes it is better to find a review of the item first,
and see if it is for you or not.

https://www.pcmag.com/reviews/blink-video-doorbell-plus-sync-module-2

Doorbell + Sync Module 2 + Echo View + CloudPlan = ???
Camera Wifi??? Screen/microphone
Spkr/Mic

It's a potential ecosystem.

OK, this is getting a bit closer. I still can't figure out
why this mentions a 900MHz radio. When device to device
appears to be 2.4GHz.

https://support.blinkforhome.com/en_US/sync-module-2/sync-module-2-technical-details

Sync Module 2 Specifications

Wi-Fi Internet Always-on broadband connection [High upload speed requirement]
Upload Speed 2 MB per second (minimum) [Cloud storage, review, preview]
Power 5 volt 1 Amp DC
Operating temperature 0° to 35° C Designed for indoor use
Frequency Range 2.4 Ghz Wi-Fi
~900 Mhz Blink Low Frequency Radio [what is this for ???]
Signal Strength Using the Blink app Sync Module Settings screen,
you should have "three bars" of connectivity. You can move
the Sync Module and Wi-Fi router to find the best balance
of signal strengths.

USB Storage
File format H.264 .mp4
USB port Type A
USB Drive size 1 GB to 256 GB (with at least 375MB free)
Drive format ExFAT (preferred) FAT32, FAT (MS-DOS)

The video doorbell spec is next.

https://support.blinkforhome.com/en_US/before-you-begin/blink-technical-specifications

Power Main: Two, size AA 1.5 volt Lithium non-rechargeable batteries
Chime Wiring: 16-24 volts AC, 50 60 Hz, max 40 volt/amps

Note: Batteries are always required for use.

Battery Life Two years of regular use <cough>

Camera Sensor 1080p HD Color, 15 to 30 fps
Field of view: 135 degree horizontal and 80 degree vertical
Night Vision 1080p HD Black & White
850 nm infrared LED light
Motion Sensor Type: Frame to frame image comparison
Downward tilt: 10 degree Field of view: 150 degree horizontal
Max range: 23 ft (7m) when mounted 48" (122cm) above ground
Effective range: 12 ft (3.6m) when knee level motion is detected

Wi-Fi (such as broadband, fiber, or DSL). Wifi network: 2.4 GHz 802.11b/g/n.
Network Speed Download Speed: Broadband recommended
Required Upload Speed: 2 MB per second or more

Audio Speaker output and 2-way audio recording
LED light ring (around the ringer button)
Red LED - Not connected / Ready
Green LED - Connection activity
Blue LED - Button Press
Weather Resistant Rated IP-54 Weatherproof
Operating Temperature -20° to 45° C
Size 5.1" x 1.7" x 1" (130 x 42 x 27 mm)
Weight 3.2 ounces (91 grams)
Mobile App Blink Home Monitor
Operating Systems iOS, Android, Fire OS
Compatibility
Sync Module 2, Sync Module, Alexa enabled Fire and Echo devices
Mounting holes 3/32" (2.27mm) diameter drill bit for just the screw
7/32" (5.3mm) diameter drill bit for the wall anchor

*******

Device internal photos (Blink Video Doorbell):

https://fccid.io/2AF77-H1773003/Internal-Photos/Exhibit-C-Internal-Photographs-per-2-1033-b7-3991394

The gold dots could have something to do with the speaker. The J connector
could be how power gets from the batteries to the main PCB.

https://fccid.io/2AF77-H1773003/External-Photos/Exhibit-C-External-Photographs-per-2-1033-b7-3991393

( https://fccid.io/2AF77-H1773003/User-Manual/Exhibit-D-Users-Manual-per-2-1033-b3-3991446 )

*******

https://support.blinkforhome.com/en_US/blink-video-doorbell-information/mechanical-chime-calibration

https://support.blinkforhome.com/en_US/blink-video-doorbell-information/digital-chime-calibration

*******

Summary:

1) Never derives power from any external source.
A "transformer source" like a bell system, would not help.
2) Does appear to work stand alone. Using 2.4GHz radio. Somehow.
3) When near Sync Device, likely reduces amplitude of 2.4GHz radio signal.
This saves a bit of power.
4) Chime contactor via a semiconductor.
No relay is visible for chime function.
Semiconductor needs a certain amplitude signal to work ???
Camera appears to be able to measure chime wire amplitude in software
and knows sufficient signal is not present.
5) If Echo View, tiny cube camera, or Alexa are present,
these devices can make a chime sound inside the house. Each
of those devices has a speaker.
6) Sync device has no speaker. It cannot make a chime.
But would have been a natural fit for such a function.
7) FCC photos don't show the module that touches the gold dots.
The gold dots seem to be isolated from adjacent ground plane.
I think I see an RF connector on the end of the gold "L".
The rubber gasket could be related to damping the speaker module.
8) The more I look at the photos, the more mysteries I spot.
It's like a freaking cellphone.

https://www.amazon.ca/Blink-Mini-White/dp/B07X4BT8C9/ref=asc_df_B07X4BT8C9

"Use Mini as an indoor plug-in chime for Blink Video Doorbell. Hear a
real-time alert from Mini when someone presses your Video Doorbell."

Still potential spyware though.

"See, hear, and speak to people and pets in your home from your
smartphone with Blink Mini’s live view and two-way audio."

Paul

larkim

2022-10-12 14:10:02 UTC

Permalink

Post by Paul

Post by Theo

It's hard to have both a thing that expects 16v AC and a bell that can only
cope with 3V DC before burning out. You could put 16v AC across the bell
push and then step that down and rectify it to 3V DC, but it would be simpler
to get a bell transformer and a 16-24V chime.
It's possible it'll cope with a higher DC voltage, like a pair of 9V
batteries giving 18V, and maybe that will be correctly detected. But you'd
then need a chime capable of running from 18V DC. You could regulate the
18V down to 3V but the batteries wouldn't last long.
I would probably be looking at hard wiring here and changing the chime.
You can get plug-in bell transformers which would mean you'd only need to go
as far as a socket, not back to the fusebox.
Theo

Theo, thanks. I must admit the electronics is beyond me!
As I posted, I know what I've got is out of spec, but I'm pretty sure that what is in the
camera is a simple relay that opens and closes a circuit so surely that can mimic
the pushing of a button?
I'll post a video of the various outputs that I can see via a multimeter when a button
is pressed and perhaps that can help find a way.
A battery chime is the only available option for me in the location available, certainly
without making a big ol' mess in an area with limited neat cabling opportunities and
not much access to power!

You have some choices on device type.
https://www.amazon.co.uk/blink-video-doorbell-two-way-audio-hd-video-motion-and-chime-app-alerts-easy-setup-and-alexa-enabled/dp/B08SG68DY9?th=1
"With a Sync Module or compatible wiring, your battery life extends to 2 years, and
you can start Live View or take thumbnails in the Blink app.
Without a wired connection or a Sync Module, you enter Event Response mode where
you only receive motion alert and doorbell press notifications, and you must tap
a notification within 60 seconds to enter Live View with two-way talk.
[This implies camera is running continuously, on battery?]
"
And there is some subscription thing that eventually
might enter the picture.
"Choose to save and share clips in the cloud with a free trial
of the Blink Subscription Plan,
or locally with the Sync Module 2 and USB drive (each sold separately).
Trial valid until January 2023. You will be notified at least 30 days
before your free trial expires with information on how to subscribe.
"
Sometimes it is better to find a review of the item first,
and see if it is for you or not.
https://www.pcmag.com/reviews/blink-video-doorbell-plus-sync-module-2
Doorbell + Sync Module 2 + Echo View + CloudPlan = ???
Camera Wifi??? Screen/microphone
Spkr/Mic
It's a potential ecosystem.
OK, this is getting a bit closer. I still can't figure out
why this mentions a 900MHz radio. When device to device
appears to be 2.4GHz.
https://support.blinkforhome.com/en_US/sync-module-2/sync-module-2-technical-details
Sync Module 2 Specifications
Wi-Fi Internet Always-on broadband connection [High upload speed requirement]
Upload Speed 2 MB per second (minimum) [Cloud storage, review, preview]
Power 5 volt 1 Amp DC
Operating temperature 0° to 35° C Designed for indoor use
Frequency Range 2.4 Ghz Wi-Fi
~900 Mhz Blink Low Frequency Radio [what is this for ???]
Signal Strength Using the Blink app Sync Module Settings screen,
you should have "three bars" of connectivity. You can move
the Sync Module and Wi-Fi router to find the best balance
of signal strengths.
USB Storage
File format H.264 .mp4
USB port Type A
USB Drive size 1 GB to 256 GB (with at least 375MB free)
Drive format ExFAT (preferred) FAT32, FAT (MS-DOS)
The video doorbell spec is next.
https://support.blinkforhome.com/en_US/before-you-begin/blink-technical-specifications
Power Main: Two, size AA 1.5 volt Lithium non-rechargeable batteries
Chime Wiring: 16-24 volts AC, 50 60 Hz, max 40 volt/amps
Note: Batteries are always required for use.
Battery Life Two years of regular use <cough>
Camera Sensor 1080p HD Color, 15 to 30 fps
Field of view: 135 degree horizontal and 80 degree vertical
Night Vision 1080p HD Black & White
850 nm infrared LED light
Motion Sensor Type: Frame to frame image comparison
Downward tilt: 10 degree Field of view: 150 degree horizontal
Max range: 23 ft (7m) when mounted 48" (122cm) above ground
Effective range: 12 ft (3.6m) when knee level motion is detected
Wi-Fi (such as broadband, fiber, or DSL). Wifi network: 2.4 GHz 802.11b/g/n.
Network Speed Download Speed: Broadband recommended
Required Upload Speed: 2 MB per second or more
Audio Speaker output and 2-way audio recording
LED light ring (around the ringer button)
Red LED - Not connected / Ready
Green LED - Connection activity
Blue LED - Button Press
Weather Resistant Rated IP-54 Weatherproof
Operating Temperature -20° to 45° C
Size 5.1" x 1.7" x 1" (130 x 42 x 27 mm)
Weight 3.2 ounces (91 grams)
Mobile App Blink Home Monitor
Operating Systems iOS, Android, Fire OS
Compatibility
Sync Module 2, Sync Module, Alexa enabled Fire and Echo devices
Mounting holes 3/32" (2.27mm) diameter drill bit for just the screw
7/32" (5.3mm) diameter drill bit for the wall anchor
*******
https://fccid.io/2AF77-H1773003/Internal-Photos/Exhibit-C-Internal-Photographs-per-2-1033-b7-3991394
The gold dots could have something to do with the speaker. The J connector
could be how power gets from the batteries to the main PCB.
https://fccid.io/2AF77-H1773003/External-Photos/Exhibit-C-External-Photographs-per-2-1033-b7-3991393
( https://fccid.io/2AF77-H1773003/User-Manual/Exhibit-D-Users-Manual-per-2-1033-b3-3991446 )
*******
https://support.blinkforhome.com/en_US/blink-video-doorbell-information/mechanical-chime-calibration
https://support.blinkforhome.com/en_US/blink-video-doorbell-information/digital-chime-calibration
*******
1) Never derives power from any external source.
A "transformer source" like a bell system, would not help.
2) Does appear to work stand alone. Using 2.4GHz radio. Somehow.
3) When near Sync Device, likely reduces amplitude of 2.4GHz radio signal.
This saves a bit of power.
4) Chime contactor via a semiconductor.
No relay is visible for chime function.
Semiconductor needs a certain amplitude signal to work ???
Camera appears to be able to measure chime wire amplitude in software
and knows sufficient signal is not present.
5) If Echo View, tiny cube camera, or Alexa are present,
these devices can make a chime sound inside the house. Each
of those devices has a speaker.
6) Sync device has no speaker. It cannot make a chime.
But would have been a natural fit for such a function.
7) FCC photos don't show the module that touches the gold dots.
The gold dots seem to be isolated from adjacent ground plane.
I think I see an RF connector on the end of the gold "L".
The rubber gasket could be related to damping the speaker module.
8) The more I look at the photos, the more mysteries I spot.
It's like a freaking cellphone.
https://www.amazon.ca/Blink-Mini-White/dp/B07X4BT8C9/ref=asc_df_B07X4BT8C9
"Use Mini as an indoor plug-in chime for Blink Video Doorbell. Hear a
real-time alert from Mini when someone presses your Video Doorbell."
Still potential spyware though.
"See, hear, and speak to people and pets in your home from your
smartphone with Blink Mini’s live view and two-way audio."
Paul

Yep, I'm aware of all that. As I think I posted I was aware from the outset
that I'm trying to work something "out of spec".

However, there are users who have got their simple battery powered bell
pushes working fine.

In fact, if I simply attached a simple light bulb circuit (in the style of a school
circuit board) I could demonstrate that that the Blink camera would cause
the bulb to illuminate and shut down under the controls in the device.

So the Blink in practice does do what I want it to do, but just not with the
specific battery operated chime that I've got.

I'm asking a more nuanced question.

Assuming I have two terminals on a device which demonstrate either an
"open" or "closed" position via a multimeter, how might put something
"electronic" in the way that mimicked that opening and closing and
on the "other side" of the circuit opened / closed a new switch.

Paul

2022-10-12 22:48:03 UTC

Permalink

Post by larkim
Yep, I'm aware of all that. As I think I posted I was aware from the outset
that I'm trying to work something "out of spec".
However, there are users who have got their simple battery powered bell
pushes working fine.
In fact, if I simply attached a simple light bulb circuit (in the style of a school
circuit board) I could demonstrate that that the Blink camera would cause
the bulb to illuminate and shut down under the controls in the device.
So the Blink in practice does do what I want it to do, but just not with the
specific battery operated chime that I've got.
I'm asking a more nuanced question.
Assuming I have two terminals on a device which demonstrate either an
"open" or "closed" position via a multimeter, how might put something
"electronic" in the way that mimicked that opening and closing and
on the "other side" of the circuit opened / closed a new switch.

We know the load on the other side, is AC and involves a current
of maybe 500mA or 1 ampere.

A triac can close an AC path.

You need to drive the gate, to make it work.
The only reason I searched for a diac article, is to
show the gate control needs both polarities. For
power switching applications (rather than building a
dimmer), triacs can use a zero-crossing chip to
develop a gate signal (no idea, never done it).

https://www.electronics-tutorials.ws/power/diac.html

You can also use a relay to do it. The relay will
need a power source on the coil side, in series with
the Video Doorbell interface, to trigger the relay and
make a fake doorbell switching event. In addition, the
coil driving would need a snubber, but the Video Doorbell
should already be expecting a transient when it drives
the bell circuit itself.

An optoisolator is an electronic way of isolating two
circuits from one another. But it is a DC device, and
adds nothing to this exercise. Optos don't have a lot
of power switching capability, for the basic chip.
Maybe you could drive the coil on a reed relay
with one, but that's a stretch. You can rectify
an AC signal from a source, to drive the LED inside
the optoisolator, so there are ways to convert AC
stimulus, to isolated DC response.

I don't know of a black box that will solve this
with "zero fuss".

You might try adding additional resistance at
the load end, to give the video doorbell something
to "work into". In the same way we sometimes have
to put an incandescent into the same luminaire
with a LED bulb, just so a digital light switch
can work :-) Some digital wall mount light switches, need
the 60W incandescent load, for the switch to work
properly. Note that a 60W light bulb, draws 120W
when it is cold. When warmed up, it draws 60W.
Whereas power resistors (the white ceramic ones),
the resistance is more constant. You can use light
bulbs if you don't have a drawer full of power resistors,
but there is that annoying "cold" behavior to consider.

Since i don't know what your doorbell load looks
like electrically, the resistor idea is purest supposition
on my part. Maybe the doorbell is already giving
*plenty* of load, for all I know.

You would likely need lower voltage bulbs, like
four bicycle 6V bulbs in series as a 24V load.

*******

The "duration" setting in the Video Doorbell software,
must be adjusted to give a functional doorbell response.

Make sure you've read these and tested, before
going on some sort of electronics hacker adventure.

Maybe it just needs an adjustment.

https://support.blinkforhome.com/en_US/blink-video-doorbell-information/mechanical-chime-calibration

https://support.blinkforhome.com/en_US/blink-video-doorbell-information/digital-chime-calibration

Paul

larkim

2022-10-13 07:47:36 UTC

Permalink

Post by Paul

Yep, I'm aware of all that. As I think I posted I was aware from the outset
that I'm trying to work something "out of spec".
However, there are users who have got their simple battery powered bell
pushes working fine.
In fact, if I simply attached a simple light bulb circuit (in the style of a school
circuit board) I could demonstrate that that the Blink camera would cause
the bulb to illuminate and shut down under the controls in the device.
So the Blink in practice does do what I want it to do, but just not with the
specific battery operated chime that I've got.
I'm asking a more nuanced question.
Assuming I have two terminals on a device which demonstrate either an
"open" or "closed" position via a multimeter, how might put something
"electronic" in the way that mimicked that opening and closing and
on the "other side" of the circuit opened / closed a new switch.

We know the load on the other side, is AC and involves a current
of maybe 500mA or 1 ampere.
A triac can close an AC path.
You need to drive the gate, to make it work.
The only reason I searched for a diac article, is to
show the gate control needs both polarities. For
power switching applications (rather than building a
dimmer), triacs can use a zero-crossing chip to
develop a gate signal (no idea, never done it).
https://www.electronics-tutorials.ws/power/diac.html
You can also use a relay to do it. The relay will
need a power source on the coil side, in series with
the Video Doorbell interface, to trigger the relay and
make a fake doorbell switching event. In addition, the
coil driving would need a snubber, but the Video Doorbell
should already be expecting a transient when it drives
the bell circuit itself.
An optoisolator is an electronic way of isolating two
circuits from one another. But it is a DC device, and
adds nothing to this exercise. Optos don't have a lot
of power switching capability, for the basic chip.
Maybe you could drive the coil on a reed relay
with one, but that's a stretch. You can rectify
an AC signal from a source, to drive the LED inside
the optoisolator, so there are ways to convert AC
stimulus, to isolated DC response.
I don't know of a black box that will solve this
with "zero fuss".
You might try adding additional resistance at
the load end, to give the video doorbell something
to "work into". In the same way we sometimes have
to put an incandescent into the same luminaire
with a LED bulb, just so a digital light switch
can work :-) Some digital wall mount light switches, need
the 60W incandescent load, for the switch to work
properly. Note that a 60W light bulb, draws 120W
when it is cold. When warmed up, it draws 60W.
Whereas power resistors (the white ceramic ones),
the resistance is more constant. You can use light
bulbs if you don't have a drawer full of power resistors,
but there is that annoying "cold" behavior to consider.
Since i don't know what your doorbell load looks
like electrically, the resistor idea is purest supposition
on my part. Maybe the doorbell is already giving
*plenty* of load, for all I know.
You would likely need lower voltage bulbs, like
four bicycle 6V bulbs in series as a 24V load.
*******
The "duration" setting in the Video Doorbell software,
must be adjusted to give a functional doorbell response.
Make sure you've read these and tested, before
going on some sort of electronics hacker adventure.
Maybe it just needs an adjustment.
https://support.blinkforhome.com/en_US/blink-video-doorbell-information/mechanical-chime-calibration
https://support.blinkforhome.com/en_US/blink-video-doorbell-information/digital-chime-calibration
Paul

Yep, I've played with all of the settings.

The mechanical chime setting causes the circuit (between the two
screw connetors) to open for a brief period only, presumably allowing
the "ding" on a two tone chime with the "dong" then being the hammer
returning to it's normal place.

The digital chime allows the circuit to stay open for a duration of time
and this is what I expect to be needed for my "buzzer style" doorbell
chime.

Although in electronics terms I am pretty "dumb", I'm smart and competent
when it comes to apps and that sort of stuff so take it as read that I've explored
all of the software / device specific options.

I am pretty astounded that the electronics bit sounds as complex as your
post suggests!

What could I measure at either the doorbell end or the chime end that would
help answer the questions? I've got a basic multimeter...

Paul

2022-10-13 12:49:29 UTC

Permalink

Post by larkim
Yep, I've played with all of the settings.
The mechanical chime setting causes the circuit (between the two
screw connetors) to open for a brief period only, presumably allowing
the "ding" on a two tone chime with the "dong" then being the hammer
returning to it's normal place.
The digital chime allows the circuit to stay open for a duration of time
and this is what I expect to be needed for my "buzzer style" doorbell
chime.
Although in electronics terms I am pretty "dumb", I'm smart and competent
when it comes to apps and that sort of stuff so take it as read that I've explored
all of the software / device specific options.
I am pretty astounded that the electronics bit sounds as complex as your
post suggests!
What could I measure at either the doorbell end or the chime end that would
help answer the questions? I've got a basic multimeter...

You'll need two circuits. The is a DIN rail kit 24VAC transformer
for a Blink. Ring has a DIN rail kit, but it is DC. Verifying
the transformer output is 24V, is a first step before wiring the
Blink to it. If you know your mains to be exceptionally high,
select a 16VAC transformer instead. It will then run at 19VAC
or 23VAC or whatever. The Blink will then be happy, as the voltage
is between 16 and 24 volts. (I did not see ANYTHING in the Blink
that looked like a power converter.)

24VAC <=== be aware your mains actual voltage, xfmr turns ratio, affect voltage!
|
50 ohm 25W (runs at 12W)
|
Blink()

Blink()
|
24VAC_Return

In your first test, you will not be using the chime. You will attempt
to use motion detection or the recording function, and characterize
*actual power consumption*.

The Blink Video Doorbell always uses the 2x1.5V Li cells for power.

But some portion of the circuit, has the option of sucking power
from the 24VAC source. I still have not been able to get any
idea what the sucked power level is (1 watt?, 5 watts?).

Blink is Immedia Semiconductor, a company whose claim to fame was
a four core processor chip running at 200MHz. The low frequency,
makes it possible for even a dopey bastard to make a processor.
You can do 200MHz processors in an FPGA for example, and do that
as a prototyping step before making custom silicon.

But the Blink Video Doorbell has more to it than that. It
does seem to list a 900 MHz radio function that runs at 1/5th
the transmit power of the 2.4GHz Wifi. The Blink products
are geofenced, in the sense that the UK Blink will follow
UK standards for the 2.4GHz band plan for Wifi (one channel
different than US and so on). Since there is no evidence the
900MHz is used for anything, we will assume it never runs.
You may need a UK geo Sync 2 as well for it.

it could be that the Wifi module in the Blink, is using
power from the chime circuit.

Using your multimeter, check for voltage across the
50 ohm resistor. This will tell you whether current is
being drawn when the Blink is motion sensing with its
PIR sensor. It may also choose to run the camera at
a low rate, and do a delta between frames to detect
moving objects. One owner claims it would false positive
on something fluttering in the field of view.

So first you would start by configuring the unit with
"chime OFF" as you don't want a huge slug of current
flowing down the resistor when attempting to detect a
small small voltage across the 50 ohm resistor. With
"chime OFF", now enable motion sensing, walk around
in front of the camera, so you can note any power draw
from the thing. The rich feature set is only available,
when the 24VAC is present on the terminals.

You do this setup on your lab bench, not on the front
door installation.

*******

The second test, is to set the meter on 200VAC full scale,
so you can measure 24VAC across the 50 ohm resistor.
Set Chime to ON, then press the button, and see if
the Blink shorts the two terminals and causes the
full 24VAC to appear across the 50 ohm resistor.

All that this does, is prove the Blink can run a US chime.
It can probably sink 1.6 amps. The 50 ohm resistor should
not be a particular challenge for it.

*******

For your next test, you can use your multimeter to record
the DC voltage on the real chime circuit, not the lab
setup shown above. With the above setup, you do that at
the comfort of your lab bench.

Knowing the DC voltage of the chime circuit, you can attempt
a circuit like this. Once you've measured the chime voltage,
you can go back to your lab bench and set this up.

8VDC <=== emulation of what your UK chime presents
|
50 ohm 25W
|
Blink()

Blink()
|
8VDC_return

With Chime set to ON, and in digital chime mode, the unit
should only respond in Event Mode. It will take a press
of the Blink button, for the Blink to wake up and close the
contacts, and make the 8VDC supply appear across the 50 ohm
resistor. The power level in the resistor in this case,
is less. (The power rating on the resistor, was so we could
do the 24VAC test. This test won't make the 50 ohm resistor
as warm.)

Since the Blink is not supposed to run supervisory functions
off an 8VDC supply, before you press the button, no current
at all should flow through the 50ohm resistor. There should
be zero volts DC across the resistor, before you press the
button. Walking in front of the unit, setting off the PIR,
should not happen.

*******

You can test with a lower voltage.

5VDC <=== Assumes a digital chime with TTL voltage control
|
50 ohm 25W
|
Blink()

Blink()
|
8VDC_return

But at some point, the SSR in the circuit, is not going to be
able to switch that one ON. You can push the button, and
eventually, get no current flow through the resistor, whether
Blink button is pushed or not. Blink is not supposed to suck
power for supervisory functions, when the voltage is this low.
Even though it is possible to make very wide range SMPS
to suck power from just about anything.

I still have not been able to find any circuit characterization
whatsoever. That's why you're doing these tests.

Paul

larkim

2022-10-13 14:03:42 UTC

Permalink

Post by Paul

You'll need two circuits. The is a DIN rail kit 24VAC transformer
for a Blink. Ring has a DIN rail kit, but it is DC. Verifying
the transformer output is 24V, is a first step before wiring the
Blink to it. If you know your mains to be exceptionally high,
select a 16VAC transformer instead. It will then run at 19VAC
or 23VAC or whatever. The Blink will then be happy, as the voltage
is between 16 and 24 volts. (I did not see ANYTHING in the Blink
that looked like a power converter.)
24VAC <=== be aware your mains actual voltage, xfmr turns ratio, affect voltage!
|
50 ohm 25W (runs at 12W)
|
Blink()
Blink()
|
24VAC_Return
In your first test, you will not be using the chime. You will attempt
to use motion detection or the recording function, and characterize
*actual power consumption*.
The Blink Video Doorbell always uses the 2x1.5V Li cells for power.
But some portion of the circuit, has the option of sucking power
from the 24VAC source. I still have not been able to get any
idea what the sucked power level is (1 watt?, 5 watts?).
Blink is Immedia Semiconductor, a company whose claim to fame was
a four core processor chip running at 200MHz. The low frequency,
makes it possible for even a dopey bastard to make a processor.
You can do 200MHz processors in an FPGA for example, and do that
as a prototyping step before making custom silicon.
But the Blink Video Doorbell has more to it than that. It
does seem to list a 900 MHz radio function that runs at 1/5th
the transmit power of the 2.4GHz Wifi. The Blink products
are geofenced, in the sense that the UK Blink will follow
UK standards for the 2.4GHz band plan for Wifi (one channel
different than US and so on). Since there is no evidence the
900MHz is used for anything, we will assume it never runs.
You may need a UK geo Sync 2 as well for it.
it could be that the Wifi module in the Blink, is using
power from the chime circuit.
Using your multimeter, check for voltage across the
50 ohm resistor. This will tell you whether current is
being drawn when the Blink is motion sensing with its
PIR sensor. It may also choose to run the camera at
a low rate, and do a delta between frames to detect
moving objects. One owner claims it would false positive
on something fluttering in the field of view.
So first you would start by configuring the unit with
"chime OFF" as you don't want a huge slug of current
flowing down the resistor when attempting to detect a
small small voltage across the 50 ohm resistor. With
"chime OFF", now enable motion sensing, walk around
in front of the camera, so you can note any power draw
from the thing. The rich feature set is only available,
when the 24VAC is present on the terminals.
You do this setup on your lab bench, not on the front
door installation.
*******
The second test, is to set the meter on 200VAC full scale,
so you can measure 24VAC across the 50 ohm resistor.
Set Chime to ON, then press the button, and see if
the Blink shorts the two terminals and causes the
full 24VAC to appear across the 50 ohm resistor.
All that this does, is prove the Blink can run a US chime.
It can probably sink 1.6 amps. The 50 ohm resistor should
not be a particular challenge for it.
*******
For your next test, you can use your multimeter to record
the DC voltage on the real chime circuit, not the lab
setup shown above. With the above setup, you do that at
the comfort of your lab bench.
Knowing the DC voltage of the chime circuit, you can attempt
a circuit like this. Once you've measured the chime voltage,
you can go back to your lab bench and set this up.
8VDC <=== emulation of what your UK chime presents
|
50 ohm 25W
|
Blink()
Blink()
|
8VDC_return
With Chime set to ON, and in digital chime mode, the unit
should only respond in Event Mode. It will take a press
of the Blink button, for the Blink to wake up and close the
contacts, and make the 8VDC supply appear across the 50 ohm
resistor. The power level in the resistor in this case,
is less. (The power rating on the resistor, was so we could
do the 24VAC test. This test won't make the 50 ohm resistor
as warm.)
Since the Blink is not supposed to run supervisory functions
off an 8VDC supply, before you press the button, no current
at all should flow through the 50ohm resistor. There should
be zero volts DC across the resistor, before you press the
button. Walking in front of the unit, setting off the PIR,
should not happen.
*******
You can test with a lower voltage.
5VDC <=== Assumes a digital chime with TTL voltage control
|
50 ohm 25W
|
Blink()
Blink()
|
8VDC_return
But at some point, the SSR in the circuit, is not going to be
able to switch that one ON. You can push the button, and
eventually, get no current flow through the resistor, whether
Blink button is pushed or not. Blink is not supposed to suck
power for supervisory functions, when the voltage is this low.
Even though it is possible to make very wide range SMPS
to suck power from just about anything.
I still have not been able to find any circuit characterization
whatsoever. That's why you're doing these tests.
Paul

I think you're missing a crucial part; the "event mode only" bit
only applies in the absence of a Sync Module (which I have).

The simplistic understanding I have on that is that the Sync Module
handles "live" connectivity to the camera via a low power radio
signal instead of using Wifi, the logic being that Wifi is a higher power
draw and would run out the 1.5v battery pretty swiftly.

As I've got the Sync Module, my camera doesn't operate in Event
Mode only, I can browse it "live" if I want to etc. There is no additional
functionality I'm missing out on vs when it is wired to a transformer.

My understanding of the wiring to a transformer bit isn't that it powers
anything in the camera / doorbell, it is more that it describes
the max current / power (whatever the right term is!) that the
components are built to withstand.

This reddit thread (which you can see I've posted) engages with someone
who appears to know some of this stuff - but we ran out of steam.

https://www.reddit.com/r/blinkcameras/comments/xjxwy9/whats_the_purpose_of_the_mains_supply_to_the/

Paul

2022-10-12 11:16:39 UTC

Permalink

Post by larkim

Post by Theo

It's hard to have both a thing that expects 16v AC and a bell that can only
cope with 3V DC before burning out. You could put 16v AC across the bell
push and then step that down and rectify it to 3V DC, but it would be simpler
to get a bell transformer and a 16-24V chime.
It's possible it'll cope with a higher DC voltage, like a pair of 9V
batteries giving 18V, and maybe that will be correctly detected. But you'd
then need a chime capable of running from 18V DC. You could regulate the
18V down to 3V but the batteries wouldn't last long.
I would probably be looking at hard wiring here and changing the chime.
You can get plug-in bell transformers which would mean you'd only need to go
as far as a socket, not back to the fusebox.
Theo

Theo, thanks. I must admit the electronics is beyond me!
As I posted, I know what I've got is out of spec, but I'm pretty sure that what is in the
camera is a simple relay that opens and closes a circuit so surely that can mimic
the pushing of a button?
I'll post a video of the various outputs that I can see via a multimeter when a button
is pressed and perhaps that can help find a way.
A battery chime is the only available option for me in the location available, certainly
without making a big ol' mess in an area with limited neat cabling opportunities and
not much access to power!