LED Bulb life outside?

[Brian]

We have several outside lights (5) which are controlled by a automatic
switches to come on at dusk, although we generally switch some of them off
if we are around, when they are linked to the security cameras. In simple
terms, 3 get turned on at dusk and off at dawn. 2 may be turned on at
dusk, turned off manually, and possibly triggered a couple of times before
dawn ( cats / foxes ).

I used to use CFL bulbs, which had a very long life- years. When they
finally failed, I switched to LED bulbs. They have a much shorter life. I
replace 2 or 3 per year at least. Brand seems to make no difference. I’ve
tried IKEA, B&Q ones, currently some from Amazon.

In terms of on/ off cycles, they have an ‘easy life’ - three are turned on
/ off once in 24 hrs. They don’t seem to last any longer than the one which
see a few more cycles, in fact they seem to fail more often.

LED bulbs elsewhere seem to last.

I popped the top of one, one of the LEDs in the array. had fried. Of
course, the others may have failed in a different way.



Ideas?

[Tim+]

Post by Brian
We have several outside lights (5) which are controlled by a automatic
switches to come on at dusk, although we generally switch some of them off
if we are around, when they are linked to the security cameras. In simple
terms, 3 get turned on at dusk and off at dawn. 2 may be turned on at
dusk, turned off manually, and possibly triggered a couple of times before
dawn ( cats / foxes ).
I used to use CFL bulbs, which had a very long life- years. When they
finally failed, I switched to LED bulbs. They have a much shorter life. I
replace 2 or 3 per year at least. Brand seems to make no difference. I’ve
tried IKEA, B&Q ones, currently some from Amazon.
In terms of on/ off cycles, they have an ‘easy life’ - three are turned on
/ off once in 24 hrs. They don’t seem to last any longer than the one which
see a few more cycles, in fact they seem to fail more often.
LED bulbs elsewhere seem to last.
I popped the top of one, one of the LEDs in the array. had fried. Of
course, the others may have failed in a different way.
Ideas?

Were the fittings designed for LED bulbs? They really don’t take kindly to
fittings that don’t allow adequate heat dissipation.

Tim

[Brian]

Post by Tim+

Post by Brian
We have several outside lights (5) which are controlled by a automatic
switches to come on at dusk, although we generally switch some of them off
if we are around, when they are linked to the security cameras. In simple
terms, 3 get turned on at dusk and off at dawn. 2 may be turned on at
dusk, turned off manually, and possibly triggered a couple of times before
dawn ( cats / foxes ).
I used to use CFL bulbs, which had a very long life- years. When they
finally failed, I switched to LED bulbs. They have a much shorter life. I
replace 2 or 3 per year at least. Brand seems to make no difference. I’ve
tried IKEA, B&Q ones, currently some from Amazon.
In terms of on/ off cycles, they have an ‘easy life’ - three are turned on
/ off once in 24 hrs. They don’t seem to last any longer than the one which
see a few more cycles, in fact they seem to fail more often.
LED bulbs elsewhere seem to last.
I popped the top of one, one of the LEDs in the array. had fried. Of
course, the others may have failed in a different way.
Ideas?

Were the fittings designed for LED bulbs? They really don’t take kindly to
fittings that don’t allow adequate heat dissipation.
Tim

They are sealed metal ones, although I have checked them when on with on of
those thermometers you point and get a reading and, even after a couple of
hours on, they don’t get much above ambient. I suppose the bulb could be
getting hot but it seems unlikely.

[Joe]

On Sat, 10 Feb 2024 18:09:18 -0000 (UTC)

Post by Brian
We have several outside lights (5) which are controlled by a automatic
switches to come on at dusk, although we generally switch some of
them off if we are around, when they are linked to the security
cameras. In simple terms, 3 get turned on at dusk and off at dawn.
2 may be turned on at dusk, turned off manually, and possibly
triggered a couple of times before dawn ( cats / foxes ).
I used to use CFL bulbs, which had a very long life- years. When they
finally failed, I switched to LED bulbs. They have a much shorter
life. I replace 2 or 3 per year at least. Brand seems to make no
difference. I’ve tried IKEA, B&Q ones, currently some from Amazon.
In terms of on/ off cycles, they have an ‘easy life’ - three are
turned on / off once in 24 hrs. They don’t seem to last any longer
than the one which see a few more cycles, in fact they seem to fail
more often.
LED bulbs elsewhere seem to last.
I popped the top of one, one of the LEDs in the array. had fried. Of
course, the others may have failed in a different way.
Ideas?

LEDs run much cooler than incandescent or QI, but they still get hot.
Do the enclosures have ventilation? I have a LED outside light but it
is PIR controlled and probably spends no more than five minutes a day
on, about one minute at a time.

There can be heat problems with indoor LED lamps if they are fitted to
lampholders which do not allow enough circulation, even though the lamp
isn't sealed.

[John Rumm]

Post by Brian
We have several outside lights (5) which are controlled by a automatic
switches to come on at dusk, although we generally switch some of them off
if we are around, when they are linked to the security cameras. In simple
terms, 3 get turned on at dusk and off at dawn. 2 may be turned on at
dusk, turned off manually, and possibly triggered a couple of times before
dawn ( cats / foxes ).
I used to use CFL bulbs, which had a very long life- years. When they
finally failed, I switched to LED bulbs. They have a much shorter life. I
replace 2 or 3 per year at least. Brand seems to make no difference. I’ve
tried IKEA, B&Q ones, currently some from Amazon.
In terms of on/ off cycles, they have an ‘easy life’ - three are turned on
/ off once in 24 hrs. They don’t seem to last any longer than the one which
see a few more cycles, in fact they seem to fail more often.
LED bulbs elsewhere seem to last.
I popped the top of one, one of the LEDs in the array. had fried. Of
course, the others may have failed in a different way.

I think all my outside lamps are LED... and failure rates has been very
low - possibly even zero (they were incandescent - but got replaced with
LED when those failed - not sure if I have ever replaced a LED one).
Mostly PIR switched (apart from one where the PIR has failed "on", and I
have not got round to fixing it yet!)

I only run filament style LEDs[1] though which may make a difference
(the higher voltage across the "strings" of LED make for simpler PSU
designs).

[1] Mostly lantern or half lantern style fittings where the bulb is
visible - so conventional GLS style LEDs look fugly.
--
Cheers,

John.

/=================================================================\
| Internode Ltd - http://www.internode.co.uk |
|-----------------------------------------------------------------|
| John Rumm - john(at)internode(dot)co(dot)uk |
\=================================================================/

[Adam Funk]

Post by John Rumm

Post by Brian
We have several outside lights (5) which are controlled by a automatic
switches to come on at dusk, although we generally switch some of them off
if we are around, when they are linked to the security cameras. In simple
terms, 3 get turned on at dusk and off at dawn. 2 may be turned on at
dusk, turned off manually, and possibly triggered a couple of times before
dawn ( cats / foxes ).
I used to use CFL bulbs, which had a very long life- years. When they
finally failed, I switched to LED bulbs. They have a much shorter life. I
replace 2 or 3 per year at least. Brand seems to make no difference. I’ve
tried IKEA, B&Q ones, currently some from Amazon.
In terms of on/ off cycles, they have an ‘easy life’ - three are turned on
/ off once in 24 hrs. They don’t seem to last any longer than the one which
see a few more cycles, in fact they seem to fail more often.
LED bulbs elsewhere seem to last.
I popped the top of one, one of the LEDs in the array. had fried. Of
course, the others may have failed in a different way.

I think all my outside lamps are LED... and failure rates has been very
low - possibly even zero (they were incandescent - but got replaced with
LED when those failed - not sure if I have ever replaced a LED one).
Mostly PIR switched (apart from one where the PIR has failed "on", and I
have not got round to fixing it yet!)

Same here (except for the failed PIR). I do have to replace indoor LED
lamps occasionally.

[www.GymRatZ.co.uk]

Post by Brian
We have several outside lights (5) which are controlled by a automatic
switches to come on at dusk, although we generally switch some of them off
if we are around, when they are linked to the security cameras. In simple
terms, 3 get turned on at dusk and off at dawn. 2 may be turned on at
dusk, turned off manually, and possibly triggered a couple of times before
dawn ( cats / foxes ).

<snip>

Post by Brian
In terms of on/ off cycles, they have an ‘easy life’ - three are turned on
/ off once in 24 hrs. They don’t seem to last any longer than the one which
see a few more cycles, in fact they seem to fail more often.

When I wired the extension about 6 or so years ago I put 11 or 12
dimmable 6w LED's in the horizontal soffits plus a wall light above the
door entry key-pad and wired them up to a simple dusk/dawn sensor (no
PIR) then into a PIR detector in parallel with an LED compatible dimmer
switch.
The dimmer was adjusted to the minimum level at which all bulbs would
illuminate (some would drop off if dimmed too much).

Dusk - lights are on and stay on dimmed all night.
People walking past the house + cats foxes etc trigger the PIR which
then bypasses the dimmer so all lights are full power for around 10
minutes before dropping back to a dimmed state. This happens a lot in
the longer nights as it's a popular route for local dog walkers,
obviously much less in the summer.

I presume the dimmed-to-full state and back means they only have a
single on-off cycle each 24 hour period and spend most of their life
just trickling along at minimum output.

To date no bulbs have failed although the white powder coating om the
downlighters is now peeing off where the Aluminium has oxidised
underneath.

I must say it is one of my finer wiring creations.

Wago connectors were my very best friend!

Cheers
Pete

[The Natural Philosopher]

Post by www.GymRatZ.co.uk
When I wired the extension about 6 or so years ago I put 11 or 12
dimmable 6w LED's in the horizontal soffits plus a wall light above the
door entry key-pad ....

.

Post by www.GymRatZ.co.uk
...
To date no bulbs have failed although the white powder coating om the
downlighters is now peeing off where the Aluminium has oxidised underneath.
I must say it is one of my finer wiring creations.
Wago connectors were my very best friend!

I've been replacing lights of all sorts with LEDs in the last 6 years here.

MANY have failed. But not as many as CFL bulbs did. ALL my CFLS went
dim. took ages to come on and made stuff look like a horror movie. I've
got about 15 that I removed that still sort of work but are really
unsatisfactory. I should smash them

Some LEDS have died. Some have gone dim. Some just went flickery.
Especially dimmables.

I think the fact is that the LEDs are fine, but cramming crude and cheap
drive circuitry into bulb bases has been a bit hit and miss.

But it is getting better.

My 12V spotlights are better and brighter than the halogens they
replaced. And seem rock solid.

But the ordinary bulb replacements have often been flaky.

I think overall even with the premature deaths I am still up financially
on the incandescents. And the LEDS don't trip the whole lighting
circuit when they die.

LEDS are the future of lighting, and there may be more to come in the
way of thin-film organic LED *panels* .

Just hang in there and the driver lifetimes and quality will improve.

[www.GymRatZ.co.uk]

Post by www.GymRatZ.co.uk
I presume the dimmed-to-full state and back means they only have a
single on-off cycle each 24 hour period and spend most of their life
just trickling along at minimum output.

Just noticed last night that when the lights switched from full state to
dimmes they do switch off completely for half a second so they are
actually havimg a full cycle eack PIR activation but perhaps not having
chance to cool is reducing wear.

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[Brian Gaff]

That implies they are overheating then. I guess if its sealed as an outside
enclosure would be then maybe all the designs you tries are for free air
cooling. There are probably some with a more conservative design that cannot
get so hot. Of course the cooler the power supply or led is running, the
less its wasting power and the longer its life.
Brian
--
--:
This newsgroup posting comes to you directly from...
The Sofa of Brian Gaff...
***@blueyonder.co.uk
Blind user, so no pictures please
Note this Signature is meaningless.!

Post by Brian
We have several outside lights (5) which are controlled by a automatic
switches to come on at dusk, although we generally switch some of them off
if we are around, when they are linked to the security cameras. In simple
terms, 3 get turned on at dusk and off at dawn. 2 may be turned on at
dusk, turned off manually, and possibly triggered a couple of times before
dawn ( cats / foxes ).
I used to use CFL bulbs, which had a very long life- years. When they
finally failed, I switched to LED bulbs. They have a much shorter life. I
replace 2 or 3 per year at least. Brand seems to make no difference. I've
tried IKEA, B&Q ones, currently some from Amazon.
In terms of on/ off cycles, they have an 'easy life' - three are turned on
/ off once in 24 hrs. They don't seem to last any longer than the one
which
see a few more cycles, in fact they seem to fail more often.
LED bulbs elsewhere seem to last.
I popped the top of one, one of the LEDs in the array. had fried. Of
course, the others may have failed in a different way.
Ideas?

[Harry Bloomfield Esq]

Post by Brian
They have a much shorter life. I
replace 2 or 3 per year at least. Brand seems to make no difference. I’ve
tried IKEA, B&Q ones, currently some from Amazon.

I suffered a similar short life issue, of LED lamps, in outdoor
enclosures. The eventual fix, was to simply improve the ventilation.

[Brian]

Post by Harry Bloomfield Esq

Post by Brian
They have a much shorter life. I
replace 2 or 3 per year at least. Brand seems to make no difference. I’ve
tried IKEA, B&Q ones, currently some from Amazon.

I suffered a similar short life issue, of LED lamps, in outdoor
enclosures. The eventual fix, was to simply improve the ventilation.

Ventilation and being water tight aren’t exactly easy to achieve.

Perhaps I’ll try and find some Cfls and stock up.

[Rod Speed]

Post by Harry Bloomfield Esq

Post by Brian
They have a much shorter life. I
replace 2 or 3 per year at least. Brand seems to make no difference.=

=

Post by Harry Bloomfield Esq

Post by Brian
I=E2=80=99ve
tried IKEA, B&Q ones, currently some from Amazon.

I suffered a similar short life issue, of LED lamps, in outdoor
enclosures. The eventual fix, was to simply improve the ventilation.

Ventilation and being water tight aren=E2=80=99t exactly easy to achie=

ve.

The Philips Hue externals do that fine.

Perhaps I=E2=80=99ll try and find some Cfls and stock up.

Mad.

[Peeler]

On Mon, 12 Feb 2024 20:01:15 +1100, cantankerous trolling geezer Rodent
Speed, the auto-contradicting senile sociopath, blabbered, again:

<FLUSH the abnormal trolling senile cretin's latest trollshit unread>

[Fredxx]

Post by Rod Speed

Post by Brian

Post by Harry Bloomfield Esq

Post by Brian
They have a much shorter life. I
replace 2 or 3 per year at least. Brand seems to make no difference. I’ve
tried IKEA, B&Q ones, currently some from Amazon.

I suffered a similar short life issue, of LED lamps, in outdoor
enclosures. The eventual fix, was to simply improve the ventilation.

Ventilation and being water tight aren’t exactly easy to achieve.

The Philips Hue externals do that fine.

Do you own shares in Philips?

Are Philips Hue externals both water-tight and allow ventilation? I
might have thought the laws of physics would have got in the way?

[Rod Speed]

Post by Fredxx

Post by Rod Speed

Post by Harry Bloomfield Esq

Post by Brian
They have a much shorter life. I
replace 2 or 3 per year at least. Brand seems to make no differenc=

e. =

Post by Fredxx

Post by Rod Speed

Post by Harry Bloomfield Esq

Post by Brian
I=E2=80=99ve
tried IKEA, B&Q ones, currently some from Amazon.

I suffered a similar short life issue, of LED lamps, in outdoor
enclosures. The eventual fix, was to simply improve the ventilation=

.

Post by Fredxx

Post by Rod Speed

Ventilation and being water tight aren=E2=80=99t exactly easy to ach=

ieve.

Post by Fredxx

Post by Rod Speed
The Philips Hue externals do that fine.

Do you own shares in Philips?

Nope. And so few use usenet that I wouldnt
bother to spruik Hues even if I did.

Post by Fredxx
Are Philips Hue externals both water-tight and allow ventilation?

They don't get hot enough to need anything special ventilation
wise and the externals are complete, so you can't put them where
they don't get enough ventilation and the electronics is potted.

Post by Fredxx
I might have thought the laws of physics would have got in the way?

Not when you design them properly so they don't get hot, stupid.

[Peeler]

On Tue, 13 Feb 2024 04:03:15 +1100, cantankerous trolling geezer Rodent
Speed, the auto-contradicting senile sociopath, blabbered, again:

<FLUSH the abnormal trolling senile cretin's latest trollshit unread>

[The Natural Philosopher]

Post by Brian

Post by Harry Bloomfield Esq

Post by Brian
They have a much shorter life. I
replace 2 or 3 per year at least. Brand seems to make no difference. I’ve
tried IKEA, B&Q ones, currently some from Amazon.

I suffered a similar short life issue, of LED lamps, in outdoor
enclosures. The eventual fix, was to simply improve the ventilation.

Ventilation and being water tight aren’t exactly easy to achieve.

No need for water tightness. Juts make sure there is a roof on top!

Post by Brian
Perhaps I’ll try and find some Cfls and stock up.

How many do you want?

[Fredxx]

Post by Brian

Post by Harry Bloomfield Esq

Post by Brian
They have a much shorter life. I
replace 2 or 3 per year at least. Brand seems to make no difference. I’ve
tried IKEA, B&Q ones, currently some from Amazon.

I suffered a similar short life issue, of LED lamps, in outdoor
enclosures. The eventual fix, was to simply improve the ventilation.

Ventilation and being water tight aren’t exactly easy to achieve.
Perhaps I’ll try and find some Cfls and stock up.

LEDs run cooler. Best use a low wattage LED lamp.

I was going to say that a silicone spray that might keep water out of a
fitting but I see some websites claim it goes hard and shouldn't be used
on electrical fittings. However it seems silicone grease is ok.

Might also have ramifications on the thread re oven lamp!

[Scott]

On Sat, 10 Feb 2024 18:09:18 -0000 (UTC), Brian <***@lid.org> wrote:
[snip]

Post by Brian
LED bulbs elsewhere seem to last.
I popped the top of one, one of the LEDs in the array. had fried. Of
course, the others may have failed in a different way.
Ideas?

Does brand and cost make much difference? I always buy Philips and I
don't think I have encountered any problems (inside, that is).

I bought some 12 Volt spotlights online and they produced horrendous
radio frequency interference, even stopping my DAB radio working at
all.

[Animal]

Post by Scott
[snip]

Post by Brian
LED bulbs elsewhere seem to last.
I popped the top of one, one of the LEDs in the array. had fried. Of
course, the others may have failed in a different way.
Ideas?

Does brand and cost make much difference? I always buy Philips and I
don't think I have encountered any problems (inside, that is).
I bought some 12 Volt spotlights online and they produced horrendous
radio frequency interference, even stopping my DAB radio working at
all.

A fried LED can often be shorted & it works again. Need plenty of watts in your iron, as the LEDs are usually on an ali backing.