Suggestions for a router & ONT UPS?

[Spike]

In the days of FTTC, I ran the router from a mini UPS, that gave about an
hour of backup, easily long enough for me to get out the 400Wh power bank
and cables to connect up lights, etc, and power the mini UPS.

Following an upgrade to FTTP, I now have an ONT to power as well. The
upshot is that I’m looking for a UPS that has at least two mains sockets,
and will power the two devices for at least an hour. There are many
available on Amazon, so any suggestions as to a good one for this task
gratefully received.

[Tim Lamb]

Post by Spike
In the days of FTTC, I ran the router from a mini UPS, that gave about an
hour of backup, easily long enough for me to get out the 400Wh power bank
and cables to connect up lights, etc, and power the mini UPS.
Following an upgrade to FTTP, I now have an ONT to power as well. The
upshot is that I’m looking for a UPS that has at least two mains sockets,
and will power the two devices for at least an hour. There are many
available on Amazon, so any suggestions as to a good one for this task
gratefully received.

Ah. You need to be 80 or over. BT then supply separate battery packs for
the ONT and the router.

No torch to hand (in loft) but I will look later and see if they are
identified.

[Spike]

Post by Tim Lamb

Post by Spike
In the days of FTTC, I ran the router from a mini UPS, that gave about an
hour of backup, easily long enough for me to get out the 400Wh power bank
and cables to connect up lights, etc, and power the mini UPS.
Following an upgrade to FTTP, I now have an ONT to power as well. The
upshot is that I’m looking for a UPS that has at least two mains sockets,
and will power the two devices for at least an hour. There are many
available on Amazon, so any suggestions as to a good one for this task
gratefully received.

Ah. You need to be 80 or over. BT then supply separate battery packs for
the ONT and the router.

Is this just for their Digital Voice system (which I don’t have) or do they
dole out battery packs to non-BT customers?

Post by Tim Lamb
No torch to hand (in loft) but I will look later and see if they are
identified.

Don’t make a special trip!

[alan_m]

Post by Spike

Post by Tim Lamb
No torch to hand (in loft) but I will look later and see if they are
identified.

Don’t make a special trip!

[alan_m]

Post by Spike
Is this just for their Digital Voice system (which I don’t have) or do they
dole out battery packs to non-BT customers?

Possibly they only supply battery packs to their registered vulnerable
customers.

[charles]

Post by Tim Lamb

Post by Spike
In the days of FTTC, I ran the router from a mini UPS, that gave about
an hour of backup, easily long enough for me to get out the 400Wh
power bank and cables to connect up lights, etc, and power the mini
UPS.
Following an upgrade to FTTP, I now have an ONT to power as well. The
upshot is that I‘m looking for a UPS that has at least two mains
sockets, and will power the two devices for at least an hour. There
are many available on Amazon, so any suggestions as to a good one for
this task gratefully received.

Ah. You need to be 80 or over. BT then supply separate battery packs
for the ONT and the router.

Is this just for their Digital Voice system (which I don‘t have) or do
they dole out battery packs to non-BT customers?

they will sell them to anybody, but they hava limited time useage. Up to 1
hour - just for an ONT!
I hae an APC ES 550 which has 4 x 13A outlets ans runs my ONT and router
and phone adaptor for at least 2 hours. That's happened.

Post by Tim Lamb
No torch to hand (in loft) but I will look later and see if they are
identified.

Don‘t make a special trip!
-- Sp

[Tim Lamb]

Post by Spike

Post by Tim Lamb

Post by Spike
In the days of FTTC, I ran the router from a mini UPS, that gave about an
hour of backup, easily long enough for me to get out the 400Wh power bank
and cables to connect up lights, etc, and power the mini UPS.
Following an upgrade to FTTP, I now have an ONT to power as well. The
upshot is that I’m looking for a UPS that has at least two mains sockets,
and will power the two devices for at least an hour. There are many
available on Amazon, so any suggestions as to a good one for this task
gratefully received.

Ah. You need to be 80 or over. BT then supply separate battery packs for
the ONT and the router.

Is this just for their Digital Voice system (which I don’t have) or do they
dole out battery packs to non-BT customers?

Post by Tim Lamb
No torch to hand (in loft) but I will look later and see if they are
identified.

Don’t make a special trip!

We moved from Plusnet to BT as Plusnet don't offer a telephone service
with fibre.

Huh! I have to go up there to set the bosses recorder for the Strictly
results!

So.. Cyber Power, Model DTB24U12V O/P 12V DC 24Watt

Both packs the same and permanently connected. Set of fancy beeps to
alert for mains failure, battery dying etc.

We got the Digital Voice handset thrown in. I'm 80 and the boss is 79!

[Andy Burns]

Post by Tim Lamb

Post by Tim Lamb
in loft

I have to go up there to set the bosses recorder for the Strictly
results!
I'm 80 and the boss is 79!

Doesn't sound ideal?

[Graham.]

Post by Spike
In the days of FTTC, I ran the router from a mini UPS, that gave about an
hour of backup, easily long enough for me to get out the 400Wh power bank
and cables to connect up lights, etc, and power the mini UPS.
Following an upgrade to FTTP, I now have an ONT to power as well. The
upshot is that I’m looking for a UPS that has at least two mains sockets,
and will power the two devices for at least an hour. There are many
available on Amazon, so any suggestions as to a good one for this task
gratefully received.

I use LX-2BUPS modules
eg.
eBay item number:296627913886
They come in three different output voltages 5, 9 & 12 your router and
ONT will probably need 12v, but the input to the module is always 5v
regardless. You will need something better than a phone charger, I use
a 5V 4A wall-wart hard wired to the module (bypassing the USB-C
connector)

They should give you up to an hour backup depending on cell capacity
and whether you use one or two cells (they are in parallel)

The only problem with the LX-2BUPS is they don't stop discharging the
cells at an appropriate voltage.

[John Rumm]

Post by Spike
In the days of FTTC, I ran the router from a mini UPS, that gave about an
hour of backup, easily long enough for me to get out the 400Wh power bank
and cables to connect up lights, etc, and power the mini UPS.
Following an upgrade to FTTP, I now have an ONT to power as well. The
upshot is that I’m looking for a UPS that has at least two mains sockets,
and will power the two devices for at least an hour. There are many
available on Amazon, so any suggestions as to a good one for this task
gratefully received.

You have a couple of options; you could go for a standard inverter based
UPS, that will hold up the mains input for several devices. You could
also look at the "mini" UPS systems designed for individual bits of DC
powered kit. These are basically inline batteries without the expense of
the full mains inverter. e.g:

https://www.eaton.com/gb/en-gb/catalog/backup-power-ups-surge-it-power-distribution/eaton-3s-mini-ups---emea.html

If going the normal UPS route then you will need to find one that will
give you the run time you need. For any given size of UPS there is a
trade off between actual load, and run time. However there is also a
maximum run time that is imposed by the overhead of running the
inverter. Even at very low load it will still drain the battery.

In those cases you may need to look at higher power UPSs just because
they also tend to have more battery capacity.

I quite like the CyberPower BRICs boxes[1] as a quite neat all in one
solution with 13A sockets on the box (some surge protected, and some
also UPS).

The 1 kVA / 600W model will do:

at Half Load: 6 minutes
at Full Load: 1 minutes
at 60W: 60 minutes
at 90W: 42 minutes

However the 1.2kVA / 720W will do:


at Half Load: 9 minutes
at Full Load: 2 minutes
at 60W: 80 minutes
at 90W: 51 minutes

Since it has a pair of 12V SLA batts fitted as standard, but the lower
spec ones only have a single battery.

[1] Line interactive, with simulates sine wave out, and automatic
voltage regulation. LCD display panel that reports useful stuff.
--
Cheers,

John.

/=================================================================\
| Internode Ltd - http://www.internode.co.uk |
|-----------------------------------------------------------------|
| John Rumm - john(at)internode(dot)co(dot)uk |
\=================================================================/

[John R Walliker]

Post by John Rumm

Post by Spike
In the days of FTTC, I ran the router from a mini UPS, that gave about an
hour of backup, easily long enough for  me to get out the 400Wh power
bank
and cables to connect up lights, etc, and power the mini UPS.
Following an upgrade to FTTP, I now have an ONT to power as well. The
upshot is that I’m looking for a UPS that has at least two mains sockets,
and will power the two devices for at least an hour. There are many
available on Amazon, so any suggestions as to a good one for this task
gratefully received.

You have a couple of options; you could go for a standard inverter based
UPS, that will hold up the mains input for several devices. You  could
also look at the "mini" UPS systems designed for individual bits of DC
powered kit. These are basically inline batteries without the expense of
https://www.eaton.com/gb/en-gb/catalog/backup-power-ups-surge-it-power-distribution/eaton-3s-mini-ups---emea.html

I am currently evaluating one of the Eaton units. It meets all specs
except for run time at full power. Run time at lower power like 30W is
fine. It looks as if the run time can be at least doubled by fitting
different batteries. I will have more data by the end of tomorrow.
It is a nicely made unit with all the appropriate approvals on safety
critical components. The voltage never dips below 11V during mains-
battery transitions.

John

Post by John Rumm
If going the normal UPS route then you will need to find one that will
give you the run time you need. For any given size of UPS there is a
trade off between actual load, and run time. However there is also a
maximum run time that is imposed by the overhead of running the
inverter. Even at very low load it will still drain the battery.
In those cases you may need to look at higher power UPSs just because
they also tend to have more battery capacity.
I quite like the CyberPower BRICs boxes[1] as a quite neat all in one
solution with 13A sockets on the box (some surge protected, and some
also UPS).
at Half Load: 6 minutes
at Full Load: 1 minutes
at 60W: 60 minutes
at 90W: 42 minutes
at Half Load: 9 minutes
at Full Load: 2 minutes
at 60W: 80 minutes
at 90W: 51 minutes
Since it has a pair of 12V SLA batts fitted as standard, but the lower
spec ones only have a single battery.
[1] Line interactive, with simulates sine wave out, and automatic
voltage regulation. LCD display panel that reports useful stuff.

[John Rumm]

Post by John Rumm

Post by Spike
In the days of FTTC, I ran the router from a mini UPS, that gave about an
hour of backup, easily long enough for  me to get out the 400Wh power
bank
and cables to connect up lights, etc, and power the mini UPS.
Following an upgrade to FTTP, I now have an ONT to power as well. The
upshot is that I’m looking for a UPS that has at least two mains sockets,
and will power the two devices for at least an hour. There are many
available on Amazon, so any suggestions as to a good one for this task
gratefully received.

You have a couple of options; you could go for a standard inverter
based UPS, that will hold up the mains input for several devices. You
could also look at the "mini" UPS systems designed for individual bits
of DC powered kit. These are basically inline batteries without the
https://www.eaton.com/gb/en-gb/catalog/backup-power-ups-surge-it-
power-distribution/eaton-3s-mini-ups---emea.html

I am currently evaluating one of the Eaton units.  It meets all specs
except for run time at full power.  Run time at lower power like 30W is
fine. It looks as if the run time can be at least doubled by fitting
different batteries.  I will have more data by the end of tomorrow.

If the DC consumption is 7.5W, then if you take a SMPSU efficiency of
say 80%, that would suggest a mains draw of less than 10W. The power
factor will likely be rubbish though, with a a burst of current drawn
only near the peaks of the mains cycle - so the real an apparent power
could be 30VA. That would soak up some capacity on the UPS, but that
would not translate to faster battery depletion since the real power
will still only be consumed at the 10W rate.

(My ONT was fitted during the era where they fitted a battery backup
unit as standard. It only has 4 AA rechargeable cells in it)
--
Cheers,

John.

/=================================================================\
| Internode Ltd - http://www.internode.co.uk |
|-----------------------------------------------------------------|
| John Rumm - john(at)internode(dot)co(dot)uk |
\=================================================================/

[John R Walliker]

Post by John Rumm

Post by John Rumm

Post by Spike
In the days of FTTC, I ran the router from a mini UPS, that gave about an
hour of backup, easily long enough for  me to get out the 400Wh
power bank
and cables to connect up lights, etc, and power the mini UPS.
Following an upgrade to FTTP, I now have an ONT to power as well. The
upshot is that I’m looking for a UPS that has at least two mains sockets,
and will power the two devices for at least an hour. There are many
available on Amazon, so any suggestions as to a good one for this task
gratefully received.

You have a couple of options; you could go for a standard inverter
based UPS, that will hold up the mains input for several devices. You
could also look at the "mini" UPS systems designed for individual
bits of DC powered kit. These are basically inline batteries without
https://www.eaton.com/gb/en-gb/catalog/backup-power-ups-surge-it-
power-distribution/eaton-3s-mini-ups---emea.html

I am currently evaluating one of the Eaton units.  It meets all specs
except for run time at full power.  Run time at lower power like 30W is
fine. It looks as if the run time can be at least doubled by fitting
different batteries.  I will have more data by the end of tomorrow.

If the DC consumption is 7.5W, then if you take a SMPSU efficiency of
say 80%, that would suggest a mains draw of less than 10W. The power
factor will likely be rubbish though, with a a burst of current drawn
only near the peaks of the mains cycle - so the real an apparent power
could be 30VA. That would soak up some capacity on the UPS, but that
would not translate to faster battery depletion since the real power
will still only be consumed at the 10W rate.
(My ONT was fitted during the era where they fitted a battery backup
unit as standard. It only has 4 AA rechargeable cells in it)

I am testing at various dc power levels up to the rated maximum of 36W.
The UPS will actually deliver about 38W before the overcurrent cutout
activates. I haven't looked at the mains input power.
John

[Theo]

Post by John Rumm
If the DC consumption is 7.5W, then if you take a SMPSU efficiency of
say 80%, that would suggest a mains draw of less than 10W. The power
factor will likely be rubbish though, with a a burst of current drawn
only near the peaks of the mains cycle - so the real an apparent power
could be 30VA. That would soak up some capacity on the UPS, but that
would not translate to faster battery depletion since the real power
will still only be consumed at the 10W rate.

I wonder how much the static power would be? If the inverter is sized to
deliver 600W for a PC, how much power does it cost to run the inverter when
there's almost load on it? I wouldn't be surprised if there's some watts
lost in the power conversion which happen irrespective of the load.

It would be an interesting test to see how long the inverter can run with no
load until the battery is flat. I'm sure it differs by UPS, but it's hard
to find data on such runtimes.

Theo

[Spike]

Post by Theo

Post by John Rumm
If the DC consumption is 7.5W, then if you take a SMPSU efficiency of
say 80%, that would suggest a mains draw of less than 10W. The power
factor will likely be rubbish though, with a a burst of current drawn
only near the peaks of the mains cycle - so the real an apparent power
could be 30VA. That would soak up some capacity on the UPS, but that
would not translate to faster battery depletion since the real power
will still only be consumed at the 10W rate.

I wonder how much the static power would be? If the inverter is sized to
deliver 600W for a PC, how much power does it cost to run the inverter when
there's almost load on it? I wouldn't be surprised if there's some watts
lost in the power conversion which happen irrespective of the load.
It would be an interesting test to see how long the inverter can run with no
load until the battery is flat. I'm sure it differs by UPS, but it's hard
to find data on such runtimes.

It’s the question of how much power the inverter takes that concerns me
about this type of UPS. My power bank’s inverter uses 6W when idling, it’s
a fair chunk when the actual load is 30W or less. It makes the mini-ups
style more attractive.

My power bank doesn’t allow charge and discharge at the same time,
otherwise it would have been a contender.

[Peter Johnson]

It’s the question of how much power the inverter takes that concerns me
about this type of UPS. My power bank’s inverter uses 6W when idling, it’s
a fair chunk when the actual load is 30W or less. It makes the mini-ups
style more attractive.

I have one of these and use one of the 12v outlets for the ONT:
https://www.amazon.co.uk/dp/B0CNT6LLHP
I haven't tried to see how long it will run for though.
(I have an APC box for the PC.)

[Spike]

Post by Peter Johnson

It’s the question of how much power the inverter takes that concerns me
about this type of UPS. My power bank’s inverter uses 6W when idling, it’s
a fair chunk when the actual load is 30W or less. It makes the mini-ups
style more attractive.

https://www.amazon.co.uk/dp/B0CNT6LLHP
I haven't tried to see how long it will run for though.
(I have an APC box for the PC.)

Many thanks to all who replied in this thread, with very useful
information. As had been suggested, the choice seems to be to go with a
mini ups or a battery-powered inverter.

I had been using a mini on the previous router, now changed due to the
upgrade to FTTP, which in turn means also providing power for the ONT.

I’m short of sockets here, with adapters and trailing leads making up the
shortfall, so any kind of ups that provided two outputs (either 230V AC or
12VDC) for a single input would ease a problem.

After looking at the suggestions for the inverter types and researching on
Amazon, this one caught my eye:

<https://amzn.eu/d/ajg8oyz>

More punting about found the mini that you linked to, unfortunately
currently marked as out-of-stock, but I did find this one, which is very
similar:

<https://amzn.eu/d/hJO9Guw>

So, it’s pretty much boiled down to a choice between these, but I’m
grateful for all the advice and insights that have been tendered.

[Andy Burns]

Post by Spike
<https://amzn.eu/d/hJO9Guw>

Says it's 240V powered, yet seems it have barrel jack marked "input"?

[Andy Burns]

Post by Andy Burns

Post by Spike
<https://amzn.eu/d/hJO9Guw>

Says it's 240V powered, yet seems it have barrel jack marked "input"?

s'pose it's got a wall wart that they keep out of sight on the photos.

[Spike]

Post by Andy Burns

Post by Andy Burns

Post by Spike
<https://amzn.eu/d/hJO9Guw>

Says it's 240V powered, yet seems it have barrel jack marked "input"?

s'pose it's got a wall wart that they keep out of sight on the photos.

That’s how I read it, but unfortunately they don’t seem to say ‘what’s in
the box’.

[nib]

Post by Spike

Post by Andy Burns

Post by Andy Burns

Post by Spike
<https://amzn.eu/d/hJO9Guw>

Says it's 240V powered, yet seems it have barrel jack marked "input"?

s'pose it's got a wall wart that they keep out of sight on the photos.

That’s how I read it, but unfortunately they don’t seem to say ‘what’s in
the box’.

One of the reviews said that the supplied power supply was only 25W so
rather less than the possible total output. Maybe you're supposed to buy
one yourself?

But then Amazon reviews seem sometimes not to refer to the actual
product on sale.

nib

[Andy Burns]

Post by nib
One of the reviews said that the supplied power supply was only 25W so
rather less than the possible total output. Maybe you're supposed to buy
one yourself?

You don't get 140W wall warts, well into power brick territory by then.

[Theo]

Post by Andy Burns

Post by nib
One of the reviews said that the supplied power supply was only 25W so
rather less than the possible total output. Maybe you're supposed to buy
one yourself?

You don't get 140W wall warts, well into power brick territory by then.

My guess would be that inside the box there are some 18650s. 15000mAh
suggests 5-6 cells. To make the power conversion easier they might use buck
converters only, so let's say it's a 5S 1P configuration (max voltage 20V).

If it's 3000mAh per cell in 1P then you're talking ~20A max discharge
current, so about 100W peak - sounds about right.

There are probably 3 power converters (5V, 9V, 12V) rated at say 4A each.
20W+36W+48W = 104W.

But the cells only want to be charged at 1C (ie 3A), meaning the max charge
power would be 60W. However that's with good cooling, which this doesn't
have, so instead maybe they charge at 20W instead (0.33C).

What that means is that it can only actually power devices continuously at
25W max. It may be possible to draw high currents from it, but not for a
long period as the battery will go flat. Once the battery is flat it has to
output less than 25W so there's some headroom left to recharge the battery.

All this makes it fine as a powerbank but limited as a UPS. Probably fine
for the router + ONT situation but take the '114W' with a large pinch of
salt.

Theo

[nibble]

Post by Theo

Post by Andy Burns

Post by nib
One of the reviews said that the supplied power supply was only 25W so
rather less than the possible total output. Maybe you're supposed to buy
one yourself?

You don't get 140W wall warts, well into power brick territory by then.

My guess would be that inside the box there are some 18650s. 15000mAh
suggests 5-6 cells. To make the power conversion easier they might use buck
converters only, so let's say it's a 5S 1P configuration (max voltage 20V).
If it's 3000mAh per cell in 1P then you're talking ~20A max discharge
current, so about 100W peak - sounds about right.
There are probably 3 power converters (5V, 9V, 12V) rated at say 4A each.
20W+36W+48W = 104W.
But the cells only want to be charged at 1C (ie 3A), meaning the max charge
power would be 60W. However that's with good cooling, which this doesn't
have, so instead maybe they charge at 20W instead (0.33C).
What that means is that it can only actually power devices continuously at
25W max. It may be possible to draw high currents from it, but not for a
long period as the battery will go flat. Once the battery is flat it has to
output less than 25W so there's some headroom left to recharge the battery.
All this makes it fine as a powerbank but limited as a UPS. Probably fine
for the router + ONT situation but take the '114W' with a large pinch of
salt.
Theo

But maybe you could still power it with something like a 140W input, so
it could provide its stated output and charge the battery at 1C at the
same time, like a UPS. It's just that the PSU that comes with it can't
do that.

nib

[Theo]

Post by nibble
But maybe you could still power it with something like a 140W input, so
it could provide its stated output and charge the battery at 1C at the
same time, like a UPS. It's just that the PSU that comes with it can't
do that.

You could, but only if the internal power converter is sized for it. Given
they ship it with a 25W PSU it probably isn't.

Theo

[Andy Burns]

Post by Theo

Post by Andy Burns
You don't get 140W wall warts, well into power brick territory by then.

My guess would be that inside the box there are some 18650s. 15000mAh
suggests 5-6 cells.

The see-through 'shooped image shows eight, so cheapo sub-2000mAh cells?

To make the power conversion easier they might use buck

Post by Theo
converters only, so let's say it's a 5S 1P configuration (max voltage 20V).
If it's 3000mAh per cell in 1P then you're talking ~20A max discharge
current, so about 100W peak - sounds about right.

I'd misremembered, it only claims 114W not 140W

Post by Theo
There are probably 3 power converters (5V, 9V, 12V) rated at say 4A each.
20W+36W+48W = 104W.

[Theo]

Post by Andy Burns

Post by Theo

Post by Andy Burns
You don't get 140W wall warts, well into power brick territory by then.

My guess would be that inside the box there are some 18650s. 15000mAh
suggests 5-6 cells.

The see-through 'shooped image shows eight, so cheapo sub-2000mAh cells?

You could do 4S 2P, at low SOC that would be about 12.8V so probably enough
headroom.

Theo

[alan_m]

Post by nib

Post by Spike

Post by Andy Burns

Post by Andy Burns

Post by Spike
<https://amzn.eu/d/hJO9Guw>

Says it's 240V powered, yet seems it have barrel jack marked "input"?

s'pose it's got a wall wart that they keep out of sight on the photos.

That’s how I read it, but unfortunately they don’t seem to say ‘what’s in
the box’.

One of the reviews said that the supplied power supply was only 25W so
rather less than the possible total output. Maybe you're supposed to buy
one yourself?
But then Amazon reviews seem sometimes not to refer to the actual
product on sale.

Other similar devices indicate that the maximum input (VA) is lot less
than the total maximum simultaneous outputs (multiple VAs) so these
devices can only reliably supply the maximum output if the battery is
already (fully) charged. This is possibly OK if what is permanently
connected takes a lot less than the mini ups maximum input, plus there
is spare to charge the battery.

My router specification gives two consumption figures, 6W average, 18W
peak. What happens to the router if the maximum input to the box is,
say, 25W and the connected router requires the 18W AND another device
permanently connected requires 10W? As the input hasn't failed does the
UPS fail to deliver the required output from the input or does it
supplement the shortfall from the battery?

[The Natural Philosopher]

Post by Theo

Post by John Rumm
If the DC consumption is 7.5W, then if you take a SMPSU efficiency of
say 80%, that would suggest a mains draw of less than 10W. The power
factor will likely be rubbish though, with a a burst of current drawn
only near the peaks of the mains cycle - so the real an apparent power
could be 30VA. That would soak up some capacity on the UPS, but that
would not translate to faster battery depletion since the real power
will still only be consumed at the 10W rate.

I wonder how much the static power would be? If the inverter is sized to
deliver 600W for a PC, how much power does it cost to run the inverter when
there's almost load on it? I wouldn't be surprised if there's some watts
lost in the power conversion which happen irrespective of the load.

There are, yes. Although they are getting rather efficient. For a 600W
Id guess at these days a couple of Watts

Post by Theo
It would be an interesting test to see how long the inverter can run with no
load until the battery is flat. I'm sure it differs by UPS, but it's hard
to find data on such runtimes.
Theo

[Pancho]

Post by Spike
In the days of FTTC, I ran the router from a mini UPS, that gave about an
hour of backup, easily long enough for me to get out the 400Wh power bank
and cables to connect up lights, etc, and power the mini UPS.
Following an upgrade to FTTP, I now have an ONT to power as well. The
upshot is that I’m looking for a UPS that has at least two mains sockets,
and will power the two devices for at least an hour. There are many
available on Amazon, so any suggestions as to a good one for this task
gratefully received.

Why do you care?

If you have a power outage most of the stuff that uses the internet
switches off, so keeping the ONT and router on is less important. If you
need phone or internet, most people have a mobile smart phone.

I can understand a UPS to protect disk, or a Raspberry Pi running
essential home services, but in the age of the mobile smart phones it
doesn't seem essential for connectivity.

Old people generally have their emergency button.

[SteveW]

Post by Pancho

Post by Spike
In the days of FTTC, I ran the router from a mini UPS, that gave about an
hour of backup, easily long enough for  me to get out the 400Wh power
bank
and cables to connect up lights, etc, and power the mini UPS.
Following an upgrade to FTTP, I now have an ONT to power as well. The
upshot is that I’m looking for a UPS that has at least two mains sockets,
and will power the two devices for at least an hour. There are many
available on Amazon, so any suggestions as to a good one for this task
gratefully received.

Why do you care?
If you have a power outage most of the stuff that uses the internet
switches off, so keeping the ONT and router on is less important. If you
need phone or internet, most people have a mobile smart phone.
I can understand a UPS to protect disk, or a Raspberry Pi  running
essential home services, but in the age of the mobile smart phones it
doesn't seem essential for connectivity.

Not everyone carries their mobile phone at all times.

My wife is disabled. If she has a fall in the house, she cannot get up
without help. As she uses both hands on the banister or when carrying
something (such as a dinner plate) and (like most women) has no pockets
in most of her clothes, her mobile is often not in the same room as her
(or even on the same floor). Keeping the base-station powered allows her
to crawl or shuffle to the nearest cordless phone and use it as an
intercom to the rest to request help. If there is no-one else in, then
keeping power to the base-station, router and ONT, allows her to phone out.

[Pancho]

Post by SteveW

Post by Pancho

Post by Spike
In the days of FTTC, I ran the router from a mini UPS, that gave about an
hour of backup, easily long enough for  me to get out the 400Wh power
bank
and cables to connect up lights, etc, and power the mini UPS.
Following an upgrade to FTTP, I now have an ONT to power as well. The
upshot is that I’m looking for a UPS that has at least two mains sockets,
and will power the two devices for at least an hour. There are many
available on Amazon, so any suggestions as to a good one for this task
gratefully received.

Why do you care?
If you have a power outage most of the stuff that uses the internet
switches off, so keeping the ONT and router on is less important. If
you need phone or internet, most people have a mobile smart phone.
I can understand a UPS to protect disk, or a Raspberry Pi  running
essential home services, but in the age of the mobile smart phones it
doesn't seem essential for connectivity.

Not everyone carries their mobile phone at all times.
My wife is disabled. If she has a fall in the house, she cannot get up
without help. As she uses both hands on the banister or when carrying
something (such as a dinner plate) and (like most women) has no pockets
in most of her clothes, her mobile is often not in the same room as her
(or even on the same floor). Keeping the base-station powered allows her
to crawl or shuffle to the nearest cordless phone and use it as an
intercom to the rest to request help. If there is no-one else in, then
keeping power to the base-station, router and ONT, allows her to phone out.

My Mum has an emergency wrist button she wears at all times. This
connects to a council emergency service, (via its own mobile sim).

Is that not better?

[nib]

Post by Pancho

Post by SteveW

Post by Pancho

Post by Spike
In the days of FTTC, I ran the router from a mini UPS, that gave about an
hour of backup, easily long enough for  me to get out the 400Wh
power bank
and cables to connect up lights, etc, and power the mini UPS.
Following an upgrade to FTTP, I now have an ONT to power as well. The
upshot is that I’m looking for a UPS that has at least two mains sockets,
and will power the two devices for at least an hour. There are many
available on Amazon, so any suggestions as to a good one for this task
gratefully received.

Why do you care?
If you have a power outage most of the stuff that uses the internet
switches off, so keeping the ONT and router on is less important. If
you need phone or internet, most people have a mobile smart phone.
I can understand a UPS to protect disk, or a Raspberry Pi  running
essential home services, but in the age of the mobile smart phones it
doesn't seem essential for connectivity.

Not everyone carries their mobile phone at all times.
My wife is disabled. If she has a fall in the house, she cannot get up
without help. As she uses both hands on the banister or when carrying
something (such as a dinner plate) and (like most women) has no
pockets in most of her clothes, her mobile is often not in the same
room as her (or even on the same floor). Keeping the base-station
powered allows her to crawl or shuffle to the nearest cordless phone
and use it as an intercom to the rest to request help. If there is no-
one else in, then keeping power to the base-station, router and ONT,
allows her to phone out.

My Mum has an emergency wrist button she wears at all times. This
connects to a council emergency service, (via its own mobile sim).
Is that not better?

Same here. On ours, the base station has the ability to choose between
two networks and has about 1 week internal battery back-up fitted
(Careium Eliza S).

nib

[charles]

Post by Pancho

Post by SteveW

Post by Pancho

Post by Spike
In the days of FTTC, I ran the router from a mini UPS, that gave
about an hour of backup, easily long enough for me to get out the
400Wh power bank and cables to connect up lights, etc, and power the
mini UPS.
Following an upgrade to FTTP, I now have an ONT to power as well. The
upshot is that I‘m looking for a UPS that has at least two mains
sockets, and will power the two devices for at least an hour. There
are many available on Amazon, so any suggestions as to a good one for
this task gratefully received.

Why do you care?
If you have a power outage most of the stuff that uses the internet
switches off, so keeping the ONT and router on is less important. If
you need phone or internet, most people have a mobile smart phone.
I can understand a UPS to protect disk, or a Raspberry Pi running
essential home services, but in the age of the mobile smart phones it
doesn't seem essential for connectivity.

Not everyone carries their mobile phone at all times.
My wife is disabled. If she has a fall in the house, she cannot get up
without help. As she uses both hands on the banister or when carrying
something (such as a dinner plate) and (like most women) has no pockets
in most of her clothes, her mobile is often not in the same room as her
(or even on the same floor). Keeping the base-station powered allows
her to crawl or shuffle to the nearest cordless phone and use it as an
intercom to the rest to request help. If there is no-one else in, then
keeping power to the base-station, router and ONT, allows her to phone out.

My Mum has an emergency wrist button she wears at all times. This
connects to a council emergency service, (via its own mobile sim).
Is that not better?

If there's a decent mobile signal at the location where it's needed.

[John Rumm]

Post by Pancho

Post by SteveW

Post by Pancho

Post by Spike
In the days of FTTC, I ran the router from a mini UPS, that gave about an
hour of backup, easily long enough for  me to get out the 400Wh
power bank
and cables to connect up lights, etc, and power the mini UPS.
Following an upgrade to FTTP, I now have an ONT to power as well. The
upshot is that I’m looking for a UPS that has at least two mains sockets,
and will power the two devices for at least an hour. There are many
available on Amazon, so any suggestions as to a good one for this task
gratefully received.

Why do you care?
If you have a power outage most of the stuff that uses the internet
switches off, so keeping the ONT and router on is less important. If
you need phone or internet, most people have a mobile smart phone.
I can understand a UPS to protect disk, or a Raspberry Pi  running
essential home services, but in the age of the mobile smart phones it
doesn't seem essential for connectivity.

Not everyone carries their mobile phone at all times.
My wife is disabled. If she has a fall in the house, she cannot get up
without help. As she uses both hands on the banister or when carrying
something (such as a dinner plate) and (like most women) has no
pockets in most of her clothes, her mobile is often not in the same
room as her (or even on the same floor). Keeping the base-station
powered allows her to crawl or shuffle to the nearest cordless phone
and use it as an intercom to the rest to request help. If there is no-
one else in, then keeping power to the base-station, router and ONT,
allows her to phone out.

My Mum has an emergency wrist button she wears at all times. This
connects to a council emergency service, (via its own mobile sim).
Is that not better?

Many of the older systems use a landline to make to outside connection...

(also there are places with no mobile signal. Even in places were
coverage is good, a longer power outage (days) can cause the mobile base
stations to go down)
--
Cheers,

John.

/=================================================================\
| Internode Ltd - http://www.internode.co.uk |
|-----------------------------------------------------------------|
| John Rumm - john(at)internode(dot)co(dot)uk |
\=================================================================/

[nibble]

Post by John Rumm

Post by Pancho

Post by SteveW

Post by Pancho

Post by Spike
In the days of FTTC, I ran the router from a mini UPS, that gave about an
hour of backup, easily long enough for  me to get out the 400Wh
power bank
and cables to connect up lights, etc, and power the mini UPS.
Following an upgrade to FTTP, I now have an ONT to power as well. The
upshot is that I’m looking for a UPS that has at least two mains sockets,
and will power the two devices for at least an hour. There are many
available on Amazon, so any suggestions as to a good one for this task
gratefully received.

Why do you care?
If you have a power outage most of the stuff that uses the internet
switches off, so keeping the ONT and router on is less important. If
you need phone or internet, most people have a mobile smart phone.
I can understand a UPS to protect disk, or a Raspberry Pi  running
essential home services, but in the age of the mobile smart phones
it doesn't seem essential for connectivity.

Not everyone carries their mobile phone at all times.
My wife is disabled. If she has a fall in the house, she cannot get
up without help. As she uses both hands on the banister or when
carrying something (such as a dinner plate) and (like most women) has
no pockets in most of her clothes, her mobile is often not in the
same room as her (or even on the same floor). Keeping the
base-station powered allows her to crawl or shuffle to the nearest
cordless phone and use it as an intercom to the rest to request help.
If there is no- one else in, then keeping power to the base-station,
router and ONT, allows her to phone out.

My Mum has an emergency wrist button she wears at all times. This
connects to a council emergency service, (via its own mobile sim).
Is that not better?

Many of the older systems use a landline to make to outside connection...
(also there are places with no mobile signal. Even in places were
coverage is good, a longer power outage (days) can cause the mobile base
stations to go down)

That's what my father had, about 10 years ago, and presumably they had
sorted the power-off operation of that type (I don't think we ever had a
power cut while the alarm was there).

But nowadays, with fewer places having a pure copper landline, and that
number rapidly reducing, presumably no-one is making that sort any more.

But I wonder how long a typical alarm button system stays in use? My
father's was 2 or 3 years I think, ours will probably be less than a
year. In my limited experience they help extend a period of living at
home before the inevitable care home or hospital.

nib

[alan_m]

Post by Pancho
Old people generally have their emergency button.

Which requires battery backup to what is connected to te phone line.

[Pancho]

Post by alan_m

Post by Pancho
Old people generally have their emergency button.

Which requires battery backup to what is connected to te phone line.

AIUI, Mum's wrist button links to a device that has independent mobile
network connectivity, it is not connected to a phone line. A bit like an
energy smart meter. Yes, it has battery backup, just as a mobile phone,
or laptop has battery backup.

What I'm trying to understand is what extra utility people believe they
gain by adding battery backup to an ONT and Router.

[SteveW]

Post by Pancho

Post by alan_m

Post by Pancho
Old people generally have their emergency button.

Which requires battery backup to what is connected to te phone line.

AIUI, Mum's wrist button links to a device that has independent mobile
network connectivity, it is not connected to a phone line. A bit like an
energy smart meter. Yes, it has battery backup, just as a mobile phone,
or laptop has battery backup.
What I'm trying to understand is what extra utility people believe they
gain by adding battery backup to an ONT and Router.

Simply keeping the phone working during a power outage - although it
does also mean that laptops and tablets can still be used via the wi-fi
and so would allow me to carry on working and not lose pay if it were on
a WFH day.

[Pancho]

Post by SteveW

Post by Pancho

Post by alan_m

Post by Pancho
Old people generally have their emergency button.

Which requires battery backup to what is connected to te phone line.

AIUI, Mum's wrist button links to a device that has independent mobile
network connectivity, it is not connected to a phone line. A bit like
an energy smart meter. Yes, it has battery backup, just as a mobile
phone, or laptop has battery backup.
What I'm trying to understand is what extra utility people believe
they gain by adding battery backup to an ONT and Router.

Simply keeping the phone working during a power outage - although it
does also mean that laptops and tablets can still be used via the wi-fi
and so would allow me to carry on working and not lose pay if it were on
a WFH day.

OK, I get some people don't have good mobile, but I and Mum do. If my
ONT goes down I have mobile internet access, I can tether that to my
LapTop. At my house that used to be 20 Mb/s under 4G, although it seems
to have come down with the introduction of 5G, go figure?

Basically, Mum didn't get battery backup when she got FTTH last week.
From a personal viewpoint, I wondering if I should install it for her,
but I would need ONT, Router and ATA. I think at the moment the
emergency button is enough, and that I should devote myself to other
tasks, such as a louder phone, mobile connectivity on her android tablet.

[SteveW]

Post by Pancho

Post by SteveW

Post by Pancho

Post by alan_m

Post by Pancho
Old people generally have their emergency button.

Which requires battery backup to what is connected to te phone line.

AIUI, Mum's wrist button links to a device that has independent
mobile network connectivity, it is not connected to a phone line. A
bit like an energy smart meter. Yes, it has battery backup, just as a
mobile phone, or laptop has battery backup.
What I'm trying to understand is what extra utility people believe
they gain by adding battery backup to an ONT and Router.

Simply keeping the phone working during a power outage - although it
does also mean that laptops and tablets can still be used via the wi-
fi and so would allow me to carry on working and not lose pay if it
were on a WFH day.

OK, I get some people don't have good mobile, but I and Mum do. If my
ONT goes down I have mobile internet access, I can tether that to my
LapTop. At my house that used to be 20 Mb/s under 4G, although it seems
to have come down with the introduction of 5G, go figure?

We have a perfectly good mobile signal. It is simply that my wife cannot
carry anything up and down stairs, as she needs both hands on the rail.
Nor can she carry a plate of food from the kitchen without using both
hands. As her clothes mainly don't have pockets (typical for women's
clothing), she leaves her moobile if she uses the stairs or nips into
another room. The "landline", has cordless phones in each room, except
the bathrooms (and she can crawl or shuffle to another room if she has
fallen). The landline is therefore more accessible to her than her mobile.

She could have a pendant alarm, but with the landline access, it is not
really necessary - and she always wears a cross and chain that her
parents gave to her, which a pendant gets wrapped up in.

Post by Pancho
Basically, Mum didn't get battery backup when she got FTTH last week.
From a personal viewpoint, I wondering if I should install it for her,
but I would need ONT, Router and ATA. I think at the moment the
emergency button is enough, and that I should devote myself to other
tasks, such as a louder phone, mobile connectivity on her android tablet.

[nibble]

Post by SteveW

Post by Pancho

Post by SteveW

Post by Pancho

Post by alan_m

Post by Pancho
Old people generally have their emergency button.

Which requires battery backup to what is connected to te phone line.

AIUI, Mum's wrist button links to a device that has independent
mobile network connectivity, it is not connected to a phone line. A
bit like an energy smart meter. Yes, it has battery backup, just as
a mobile phone, or laptop has battery backup.
What I'm trying to understand is what extra utility people believe
they gain by adding battery backup to an ONT and Router.

Simply keeping the phone working during a power outage - although it
does also mean that laptops and tablets can still be used via the wi-
fi and so would allow me to carry on working and not lose pay if it
were on a WFH day.

OK, I get some people don't have good mobile, but I and Mum do. If my
ONT goes down I have mobile internet access, I can tether that to my
LapTop. At my house that used to be 20 Mb/s under 4G, although it
seems to have come down with the introduction of 5G, go figure?

We have a perfectly good mobile signal. It is simply that my wife cannot
carry anything up and down stairs, as she needs both hands on the rail.
Nor can she carry a plate of food from the kitchen without using both
hands. As her clothes mainly don't have pockets (typical for women's
clothing), she leaves her moobile if she uses the stairs or nips into
another room. The "landline", has cordless phones in each room, except
the bathrooms (and she can crawl or shuffle to another room if she has
fallen). The landline is therefore more accessible to her than her mobile.
She could have a pendant alarm, but with the landline access, it is not
really necessary - and she always wears a cross and chain that her
parents gave to her, which a pendant gets wrapped up in.

There are wrist-worn alternatives!

Depends what you need. The alarm services do a lot more than just
provide emergency comms of course. I was impressed when my wife had a
fall at 03:00h, they got here in less than half-an-hour, two of them
with an inflatable cushion apparatus got her up from flat on the floor
in no time.

nib

[Theo]

Post by nibble

Post by SteveW
She could have a pendant alarm, but with the landline access, it is not
really necessary - and she always wears a cross and chain that her
parents gave to her, which a pendant gets wrapped up in.

There are wrist-worn alternatives!
Depends what you need. The alarm services do a lot more than just
provide emergency comms of course. I was impressed when my wife had a
fall at 03:00h, they got here in less than half-an-hour, two of them
with an inflatable cushion apparatus got her up from flat on the floor
in no time.

One modern alternative might be a smart watch. Some of them can have their
own phone number and make their own calls, using either wifi calling or the
mobile network. There is also fall detection built in to some. I think
there is also some support for emergency SMS via satellite on fancier models
(although whether it would work lying at the bottom of the stairs is another
question).

The downside is you have to remember to charge them (daily or weekly), but
that might be ok if part of the user's routine and they aren't particularly
forgetful.

Of course that doesn't help if you live alone and have nobody to call in an
emergency, when the response service might come in handy.

Theo

[Andrew]

Post by SteveW

Post by Pancho

Post by SteveW

Post by Pancho

Post by alan_m

Post by Pancho
Old people generally have their emergency button.

Which requires battery backup to what is connected to te phone line.

AIUI, Mum's wrist button links to a device that has independent
mobile network connectivity, it is not connected to a phone line. A
bit like an energy smart meter. Yes, it has battery backup, just as
a mobile phone, or laptop has battery backup.
What I'm trying to understand is what extra utility people believe
they gain by adding battery backup to an ONT and Router.

Simply keeping the phone working during a power outage - although it
does also mean that laptops and tablets can still be used via the wi-
fi and so would allow me to carry on working and not lose pay if it
were on a WFH day.

OK, I get some people don't have good mobile, but I and Mum do. If my
ONT goes down I have mobile internet access, I can tether that to my
LapTop. At my house that used to be 20 Mb/s under 4G, although it
seems to have come down with the introduction of 5G, go figure?

We have a perfectly good mobile signal. It is simply that my wife cannot
carry anything up and down stairs, as she needs both hands on the rail.
Nor can she carry a plate of food from the kitchen without using both
hands. As her clothes mainly don't have pockets (typical for women's
clothing), she leaves her moobile if she uses the stairs or nips into
another room. The "landline", has cordless phones in each room, except
the bathrooms (and she can crawl or shuffle to another room if she has
fallen). The landline is therefore more accessible to her than her mobile.

HAsn't she heard of lanyards ?.

https://www.amazon.co.uk/mobile-phone-lanyard/s?k=mobile+phone+lanyard

[The Natural Philosopher]

Post by Pancho
OK, I get some people don't have good mobile, but I and Mum do. If my
ONT goes down I have mobile internet access, I can tether that to my
LapTop. At my house that used to be 20 Mb/s under 4G, although it seems
to have come down with the introduction of 5G, go figure?
Basically, Mum didn't get battery backup when she got FTTH last week.
From a personal viewpoint, I wondering if I should install it for her,
but I would need ONT, Router and ATA. I think at the moment the
emergency button is enough, and that I should devote myself to other
tasks, such as a louder phone, mobile connectivity on her android tablet.

Which basically says to me that there is no one magic solution. Just a
range of more or less desirable options depending on circumstance

[The Natural Philosopher]

Post by Pancho

Post by alan_m

Post by Pancho
Old people generally have their emergency button.

Which requires battery backup to what is connected to te phone line.

AIUI, Mum's wrist button links to a device that has independent mobile
network connectivity, it is not connected to a phone line. A bit like an
energy smart meter. Yes, it has battery backup, just as a mobile phone,
or laptop has battery backup.
What I'm trying to understand is what extra utility people believe they
gain by adding battery backup to an ONT and Router.

Possibly the ability to use a laptop for a few hours.

Last serious power cut I had to put my mobile in a window cill to get
signal, and connect a laptop to it

It was clear that the rate of battery usage was only going to give me an
hour or so, on the mobile.

I simply registered my issue with the power company who put me on the
list of 'people to text next time' and showed me a map of the affected
area.

Which to be fair they have done (texted me) for subsequent minor outages.

[John Rumm]

Post by The Natural Philosopher

Post by Pancho

Post by alan_m

Post by Pancho
Old people generally have their emergency button.

Which requires battery backup to what is connected to te phone line.

AIUI, Mum's wrist button links to a device that has independent mobile
network connectivity, it is not connected to a phone line. A bit like
an energy smart meter. Yes, it has battery backup, just as a mobile
phone, or laptop has battery backup.
What I'm trying to understand is what extra utility people believe
they gain by adding battery backup to an ONT and Router.

Possibly the ability to use a laptop for a few hours.

A UPS that will allow itself to be turned on without mains is handy.

That way you can turn it off when not needed - say after shutting down
vulnerable systems, and then use it in short bursts later - giving say
15 mins for a quick internet session and give your phone a bit of a
recharge etc.
--
Cheers,

John.

/=================================================================\
| Internode Ltd - http://www.internode.co.uk |
|-----------------------------------------------------------------|
| John Rumm - john(at)internode(dot)co(dot)uk |
\=================================================================/

[charles]

Post by Pancho

Post by Spike
In the days of FTTC, I ran the router from a mini UPS, that gave about an
hour of backup, easily long enough for me to get out the 400Wh power bank
and cables to connect up lights, etc, and power the mini UPS.
Following an upgrade to FTTP, I now have an ONT to power as well. The
upshot is that I‘m looking for a UPS that has at least two mains sockets,
and will power the two devices for at least an hour. There are many
available on Amazon, so any suggestions as to a good one for this task
gratefully received.

Why do you care?
If you have a power outage most of the stuff that uses the internet
switches off, so keeping the ONT and router on is less important. If you
need phone or internet, most people have a mobile smart phone.
I can understand a UPS to protect disk, or a Raspberry Pi running
essential home services, but in the age of the mobile smart phones it
doesn't seem essential for connectivity.
Old people generally have their emergency button.

1. most of these these emergency buttons don't work with VOIP. Those that
do need the ONT and router to be working.

2. Not everybody has a good indoors mobile signal. I can go to an upstairs
window and make calls. Normally I use a home wifi connection for my mobile.
No internet - no phone!

3. i find it useful to view the electricity provider's website if I have a
power cut. That gives me some idea about the duration of the outage.

[The Natural Philosopher]

Post by charles

Post by Pancho

Post by Spike
In the days of FTTC, I ran the router from a mini UPS, that gave about an
hour of backup, easily long enough for me to get out the 400Wh power bank
and cables to connect up lights, etc, and power the mini UPS.
Following an upgrade to FTTP, I now have an ONT to power as well. The
upshot is that I‘m looking for a UPS that has at least two mains sockets,
and will power the two devices for at least an hour. There are many
available on Amazon, so any suggestions as to a good one for this task
gratefully received.

Why do you care?
If you have a power outage most of the stuff that uses the internet
switches off, so keeping the ONT and router on is less important. If you
need phone or internet, most people have a mobile smart phone.
I can understand a UPS to protect disk, or a Raspberry Pi running
essential home services, but in the age of the mobile smart phones it
doesn't seem essential for connectivity.
Old people generally have their emergency button.

1. most of these these emergency buttons don't work with VOIP. Those that
do need the ONT and router to be working.
2. Not everybody has a good indoors mobile signal. I can go to an upstairs
window and make calls. Normally I use a home wifi connection for my mobile.
No internet - no phone!
3. i find it useful to view the electricity provider's website if I have a
power cut. That gives me some idea about the duration of the outage.

+1.

If I gave enough of a shit I would power my ONT, router, ethernet
switch, server and desktop unit.

Probably about 500W, although average usage would be more like 100.

[SteveW]

Post by charles

Post by Pancho

Post by Spike
In the days of FTTC, I ran the router from a mini UPS, that gave about an
hour of backup, easily long enough for  me to get out the 400Wh
power bank
and cables to connect up lights, etc, and power the mini UPS.
Following an upgrade to FTTP, I now have an ONT to power as well. The
upshot is that I‘m looking for a UPS that has at least two mains sockets,
and will power the two devices for at least an hour. There are many
available on Amazon, so any suggestions as to a good one for this task
gratefully received.

Why do you care?
If you have a power outage most of the stuff that uses the internet
switches off, so keeping the ONT and router on is less important. If you
need phone or internet, most people have a mobile smart phone.
I can understand a UPS to protect disk, or a Raspberry Pi  running
essential home services, but in the age of the mobile smart phones it
doesn't seem essential for connectivity.
Old people generally have their emergency button.

1. most of these these emergency buttons don't work with VOIP. Those that
do need the ONT and router to be working.
2. Not everybody has a good indoors mobile signal. I can go to an upstairs
window and make calls. Normally I use a home wifi connection for my mobile.
  No internet - no phone!
3. i find it useful to view the electricity provider's website if I have a
power cut. That gives me some idea about the duration of the outage.

+1.
If I gave enough of a shit I would power  my ONT, router, ethernet
switch, server  and desktop unit.

In our case, the UPS was specifically to allow the server to shut down
gracefully. As the router, network switch and phone base-station were in
the same location, those were powered from it too. As we changed to
fibre, the ONT was added.

It makes it simple, as we needed a UPS anyway and everything, comms
wise, being in the same location, allows it to all be supported through
an outage.

[Pancho]

Post by SteveW

Post by charles

Post by Pancho

Post by Spike
In the days of FTTC, I ran the router from a mini UPS, that gave about an
hour of backup, easily long enough for  me to get out the 400Wh
power bank
and cables to connect up lights, etc, and power the mini UPS.
Following an upgrade to FTTP, I now have an ONT to power as well. The
upshot is that I‘m looking for a UPS that has at least two mains sockets,
and will power the two devices for at least an hour. There are many
available on Amazon, so any suggestions as to a good one for this task
gratefully received.

Why do you care?
If you have a power outage most of the stuff that uses the internet
switches off, so keeping the ONT and router on is less important. If you
need phone or internet, most people have a mobile smart phone.
I can understand a UPS to protect disk, or a Raspberry Pi  running
essential home services, but in the age of the mobile smart phones it
doesn't seem essential for connectivity.
Old people generally have their emergency button.

1. most of these these emergency buttons don't work with VOIP. Those that
do need the ONT and router to be working.
2. Not everybody has a good indoors mobile signal. I can go to an upstairs
window and make calls. Normally I use a home wifi connection for my mobile.
  No internet - no phone!
3. i find it useful to view the electricity provider's website if I have a
power cut. That gives me some idea about the duration of the outage.

+1.
If I gave enough of a shit I would power  my ONT, router, ethernet
switch, server  and desktop unit.

In our case, the UPS was specifically to allow the server to shut down
gracefully.

Ah, now that I do see the utility in.

Post by SteveW
As the router, network switch and phone base-station were in
the same location, those were powered from it too. As we changed to
fibre, the ONT was added.
It makes it simple, as we needed a UPS anyway and everything, comms
wise, being in the same location, allows it to all be supported through
an outage.

Yeah, if you've got it already.

[The Natural Philosopher]

Post by Pancho

Post by SteveW
In our case, the UPS was specifically to allow the server to shut down
gracefully.

Ah, now that I do see the utility in.

Mine is so low traffic I just let it crash. It never has a major issue

Post by Pancho

Post by SteveW
As the router, network switch and phone base-station were in the same
location, those were powered from it too. As we changed to fibre, the
ONT was added.
It makes it simple, as we needed a UPS anyway and everything, comms
wise, being in the same location, allows it to all be supported
through an outage.

Yeah, if you've got it already.

Well I'd be more likely to out in a whole house UPS to keep the fridges
and the sewage plant operational. And the central heating and some lighting.

Probably a 10kW diesel generator

[John Rumm]

Post by The Natural Philosopher

Post by Pancho

Post by SteveW
In our case, the UPS was specifically to allow the server to shut
down gracefully.

Ah, now that I do see the utility in.

Mine is so low traffic I just let it crash. It never has a major issue

Post by Pancho

Post by SteveW
As the router, network switch and phone base-station were in the same
location, those were powered from it too. As we changed to fibre, the
ONT was added.
It makes it simple, as we needed a UPS anyway and everything, comms
wise, being in the same location, allows it to all be supported
through an outage.

Yeah, if you've got it already.

Well I'd be more likely to out in a whole house UPS  to keep the fridges
and the sewage plant operational. And the central heating and some lighting.
Probably a 10kW diesel generator

Even my 3.2kW one proved to be plenty useful last time we had an
unexpected few hours without power (normally when uk power networks ring
to say there is a non planned power cut in your postcode etc). The UPSs
held up the important stuff while waiting to see if it was going to be a
quick one. Then when it looked like it was not, I fired it up. Flicked a
few MCBs off on the CU for stuff I could do without, and flicked the
transfer switch. I could carry on working, heating and refrigeration
carried on as normal, and the only real concession was to swap to the
lower powered kettle since the normal 3kW one does not leave much slack
in the system!
--
Cheers,

John.

/=================================================================\
| Internode Ltd - http://www.internode.co.uk |
|-----------------------------------------------------------------|
| John Rumm - john(at)internode(dot)co(dot)uk |
\=================================================================/

[Spike]

Post by Pancho

Post by Spike
In the days of FTTC, I ran the router from a mini UPS, that gave about an
hour of backup, easily long enough for me to get out the 400Wh power bank
and cables to connect up lights, etc, and power the mini UPS.
Following an upgrade to FTTP, I now have an ONT to power as well. The
upshot is that I’m looking for a UPS that has at least two mains sockets,
and will power the two devices for at least an hour. There are many
available on Amazon, so any suggestions as to a good one for this task
gratefully received.

Why do you care?

It gives me options.

If power goes down, the UPS will keep the internet going for an hour or so,
plenty of time in which to get out the big power bank, connect up a
standard lamp, the UPS, and if I want, power the TV or charge up the
mobile phones (although we have a number of smaller power banks for this).
I keep the big power bank and necessary cables at hand.

I can run this setup (including TV) for about four hours. If the break is
likely to be longer, given what could be discovered about it, I wouldn’t
waste the energy on the TV, for example, but not turn it on and so extend
the useful time of the power bank. In an extended outage I would just use
battery radios to get information or stream news channels to a smartphone.

We have a number of rechargeable torches, that are each good for 10-12
hours of light, a gas hob for which we keep a separate igniter, and a
backup camping stove.

Or we could just sit in the dark and the cold, wondering what happened to
that cheap and plentiful electricity that’s been promised for more than 20
years.

If pushed, I could set up my low power battery-powered MF/HF amateur radio
station in about an hour (including making an antenna) and talk to people
that way, or use the local VHF repeater system if it’s functioning or the
simplex channels if not. The PMR446 system is another capability.

And yes! I can ‘do Morse’ as well, and Mrs Spike can do that and
send/receive semaphore.

Post by Pancho
If you have a power outage most of the stuff that uses the internet
switches off, so keeping the ONT and router on is less important. If you
need phone or internet, most people have a mobile smart phone.
I can understand a UPS to protect disk, or a Raspberry Pi running
essential home services, but in the age of the mobile smart phones it
doesn't seem essential for connectivity.
Old people generally have their emergency button.

I’m old, I use brains and experience.

[The Natural Philosopher]

Post by Spike
Or we could just sit in the dark and the cold, wondering what happened to
that cheap and plentiful electricity that’s been promised for more than 20
years.

LOL!

Renewables are so cheap that the UK is now the most expensive
electricity in the world.

And that fuckwit Milliband hasn't even started yet...

[Spike]

Post by The Natural Philosopher

Post by Spike
Or we could just sit in the dark and the cold, wondering what happened to
that cheap and plentiful electricity that’s been promised for more than 20
years.

LOL!
Renewables are so cheap that the UK is now the most expensive
electricity in the world.
And that fuckwit Milliband hasn't even started yet...

Interesting HoC document on renewables here:

<https://commonslibrary.parliament.uk/why-is-cheap-renewable-electricity-so-expensive/>

It starts with this:

“Under the ‘marginal cost pricing system’, the wholesale price of
electricity is set by the most expensive method needed to meet demand
(usually burning gas)”.

And gets worse from there.

[Spike]

Post by Spike
Following an upgrade to FTTP, I now have an ONT to power as well. The
upshot is that I’m looking for a UPS that has at least two mains sockets,
and will power the two devices for at least an hour. There are many
available on Amazon, so any suggestions as to a good one for this task
gratefully received.

Many thanks to all who contributed to this very interesting thread.

The prime decision was whether to go for a mini UPS or a mains-powered
version.

The calculations regarding the mini UPS suggested that for the expected 24W
draw from the ONT and router, the supplied 25W wall wart would be quite
marginal, although something like a 12V 3A one (which I have to hand) would
cover that.

The alternative UPS would be a mains-powered one supplying at least two
mains sockets for its output, for which there are many available, and some
were suggested by contributors to the thread. After researching these and
others, I decided to go with this form of UPS, settling on this one:

<https://amzn.eu/d/4r30ugq>

It’s by SKE, the 625VA/360W version, having two AC outputs. The spec says
that it should provide 50W of power for 60 minutes, so my 24W draw might
give as much as 2 hours of backup. It’s due for delivery later today, and
when installed and fully charged, I’ll give it a test run to see how it
performs.

[Spike]

Post by Spike
<https://amzn.eu/d/4r30ugq>
It’s by SKE, the 625VA/360W version, having two AC outputs. The spec says
that it should provide 50W of power for 60 minutes, so my 24W draw might
give as much as 2 hours of backup. It’s due for delivery later today, and
when installed and fully charged, I’ll give it a test run to see how it
performs.

The UPS duly arrived, was unpacked, and following the instructions was put
on charge for six hours.

So this morning I gave it a test, by plugging in two loads to simulate the
router and ONT; an 8W LED and a 20W halogen lamp, and pressing the On
button for the required three seconds. The lamps lit straightaway,
accompanied by a beep every few seconds to let me know it was running on
battery backup. This can be silenced by a three-second push of the On
button.

After 4h20m the unit beeped again, as it seemed to have reached 25% full
level, and I terminated the test. This comfortably exceeds my requirement
for 2hrs of backup.

Some points to note:

Both the Battery Level and Load Level indicators are of the four 25% per
segment type.

With only 28W being drawn, no segments of the Load Level indicator were
showing.

With a full battery, all four segments are on, but the instant a load is
drawn, the 75-100% segment turns off, meaning that the remaining capacity
is at an unknown level above the active segment.

The LCD screen needs to be viewed directly from the front otherwise meter
segments appear to on when they are actually off.

The output voltage was showing as 235VAC, input when being charged was
245VAC.

The unit reached a lukewarm temperature during discharge on the top at some
point towards the front.

It was completely quiet in operation apart from the beeps.

Some 90% of the instruction manual concerns the management software, which
is only available for Windows. It isn’t necessary to run any software to
use the device.

[Tim Streater]

Post by Spike
Some 90% of the instruction manual concerns the management software, which
is only available for Windows. It isn’t necessary to run any software to
use the device.

Plug the usually-supplied USB cable into a Mac, and it will detect it
automatically as a UPS and provide basic information (such as battery level)
in the Energy Saver pane of System Settings.

[John Rumm]

Post by Tim Streater

Post by Spike
Some 90% of the instruction manual concerns the management software, which
is only available for Windows. It isn’t necessary to run any software to
use the device.

Plug the usually-supplied USB cable into a Mac, and it will detect it
automatically as a UPS and provide basic information (such as battery level)
in the Energy Saver pane of System Settings.

For anyone that has not stumbled over it Network UPS Tools (NUT) is a
handy cross platform bit of software for managing and talking to UPS
devices.

https://networkupstools.org/

It understands a wide range of kit. The main benefit is it allows
multiple networked devices to be kept informed, and if required do a
shutdown.

(one of the limitations of many UPS monitoring systems is that they are
USB based and can only connect to one machine. Often the supplied
software can only do stuff on that machine. NUT lets you run a server on
the connected machine and multiple other devices can then use that to
query the UPS. They can have rules for what they need to do in response
to a UPS event and/or the UPS reaching a certain threshold battery level)
--
Cheers,

John.

/=================================================================\
| Internode Ltd - http://www.internode.co.uk |
|-----------------------------------------------------------------|
| John Rumm - john(at)internode(dot)co(dot)uk |
\=================================================================/

[Spike]

Post by John Rumm

Post by Tim Streater

Post by Spike
Some 90% of the instruction manual concerns the management software, which
is only available for Windows. It isn’t necessary to run any software to
use the device.

Plug the usually-supplied USB cable into a Mac, and it will detect it
automatically as a UPS and provide basic information (such as battery level)
in the Energy Saver pane of System Settings.

For anyone that has not stumbled over it Network UPS Tools (NUT) is a
handy cross platform bit of software for managing and talking to UPS
devices.
https://networkupstools.org/
It understands a wide range of kit. The main benefit is it allows
multiple networked devices to be kept informed, and if required do a
shutdown.
(one of the limitations of many UPS monitoring systems is that they are
USB based and can only connect to one machine. Often the supplied
software can only do stuff on that machine. NUT lets you run a server on
the connected machine and multiple other devices can then use that to
query the UPS. They can have rules for what they need to do in response
to a UPS event and/or the UPS reaching a certain threshold battery level)

Thanks to you and Tim Streater for that information.

JAAMOI the SKE unit has two Ethernet sockets on the rear panel.

[Spike]

Post by Spike
JAAMOI the SKE unit has two Ethernet sockets on the rear panel.

…and a type B USB socket, for which they include a lead.

[Theo]

Post by Spike

Post by Spike
JAAMOI the SKE unit has two Ethernet sockets on the rear panel.

ICBW, but often those sockets are just for surge protection. ie it'll stop
a lightning strike coming in from the ethernet wire to your garden shed, but
it doesn't handle any data on those ports, it'll just pass it through from
one to the other.

Post by Spike
…and a type B USB socket, for which they include a lead.

There there's usually a USB-serial device that the software can query for
status.

Theo

[Spike]

Post by Theo

Post by Spike

Post by Spike
JAAMOI the SKE unit has two Ethernet sockets on the rear panel.

ICBW, but often those sockets are just for surge protection. ie it'll stop
a lightning strike coming in from the ethernet wire to your garden shed, but
it doesn't handle any data on those ports, it'll just pass it through from
one to the other.

Post by Spike
…and a type B USB socket, for which they include a lead.

There there's usually a USB-serial device that the software can query for
status.

Ah, thanks. The instruction manual is rather short on information about the
unit, but I bought it just to use as a UPS, and as such it’s now installed
and working just fine. I was pleased to get the 4h20m run time on the
simulated test.

[John Rumm]

Post by Spike

Post by Spike
JAAMOI the SKE unit has two Ethernet sockets on the rear panel.

…and a type B USB socket, for which they include a lead.

The USB will be to connect to your "computer"[1] so that it can find out
what the UPS is up to. Software on the computer can then decide what
action to take... typically something like automatic shutdown when the
UPS capacity reaches <= 25%. That way it will ride out short
interruptions, but longer ones will cause it to shutdown gracefully
before the UPS runs out of power.

The ethernet sockets are usually just there as a feed through - often
connecting them to some surge protection, but not actually allowing any
communication with the UPS itself. A use case might be to place it
between the ethernet connection between your broadband modem and the
rest of the network. That way if the router is also connected to a phone
line which could be struck by lightening, it might stop damage
propagating to other things on the network.

(Probably not much real value anyway, since ethernet connectors are
usually opto or magnetically isolated)

[1] Normally a desktop PC, but a NAS, server, raspberry pi etc are all
valid things that can talk to a UPS. Some NAS devices include a NUT
server anyway, or a Pi is a cheap way to run one of your own. Then you
can have multiple machines talk to the NUT server for info on UPS events.
--
Cheers,

John.

/=================================================================\
| Internode Ltd - http://www.internode.co.uk |
|-----------------------------------------------------------------|
| John Rumm - john(at)internode(dot)co(dot)uk |
\=================================================================/

[Theo]

Post by John Rumm
The ethernet sockets are usually just there as a feed through - often
connecting them to some surge protection, but not actually allowing any
communication with the UPS itself. A use case might be to place it
between the ethernet connection between your broadband modem and the
rest of the network. That way if the router is also connected to a phone
line which could be struck by lightening, it might stop damage
propagating to other things on the network.
(Probably not much real value anyway, since ethernet connectors are
usually opto or magnetically isolated)

Ethernet transformers are only rated up to about 1.5kV (or maybe 3kV?). A
lightning strike could exceed that. The MOVs in the surge protection are
intended to absorb that spike (until they immolate anyway).

Although it's probably more useful for copper phone lines (at the risk of
reducing your DSL speed) than ethernet, since if you have fibre there's no
overhead copper pair for the lightning to strike and the fibre isn't
affected by the strong electromagnetic fields.

(or could the lightning propagate far enough along the steel tensioning wire
to cause trouble?)

But if you're running ethernet outside (eg to a shed or an EV charger) then
they could be handy.

Theo

[The Natural Philosopher]

Post by Theo
Ethernet transformers are only rated up to about 1.5kV (or maybe 3kV?). A
lightning strike could exceed that.

I had a lot of experience with lightning strikes
A near miss wont net you much more than 3kV
A direct strike wont be absorbed or isolated by ANYTHING

[tony sayer]

Post by The Natural Philosopher

Post by Theo
Ethernet transformers are only rated up to about 1.5kV (or maybe 3kV?). A
lightning strike could exceed that.

I had a lot of experience with lightning strikes
A near miss wont net you much more than 3kV
A direct strike wont be absorbed or isolated by ANYTHING

Thats why we buy a fair bit of this stuff:)...

https://www.gca.co.uk/circuit-protection/copper-conductors

[The Natural Philosopher]

Post by tony sayer

Post by The Natural Philosopher

Post by Theo
Ethernet transformers are only rated up to about 1.5kV (or maybe 3kV?). A
lightning strike could exceed that.

I had a lot of experience with lightning strikes
A near miss wont net you much more than 3kV
A direct strike wont be absorbed or isolated by ANYTHING

Thats why we buy a fair bit of this stuff:)...
https://www.gca.co.uk/circuit-protection/copper-conductors

Is your intention to turn a direct hit into a near miss?

[tony sayer]

Post by The Natural Philosopher

Post by tony sayer

Post by The Natural Philosopher

Post by Theo
Ethernet transformers are only rated up to about 1.5kV (or maybe 3kV?). A
lightning strike could exceed that.

I had a lot of experience with lightning strikes
A near miss wont net you much more than 3kV
A direct strike wont be absorbed or isolated by ANYTHING

Thats why we buy a fair bit of this stuff:)...
https://www.gca.co.uk/circuit-protection/copper-conductors

Is your intention to turn a direct hit into a near miss?

Yep on some towers we do get direct hits and sometimes sideswipes, but
the idea is to shunt the main strike past everything else.

Ever thought how much telecoms equipment there is on sites like Sudbury
TV (Workhouse green) 2 masts there!

http://tx.mb21.co.uk/gallery/gallerypage.php?txid=738

Some nice pics there of the old Channel 4 analogue transmitter a 10 kW
Pye TVT one and its ancillary gear making an exhibition of themselves!:)

[John Rumm]

Post by Theo

Post by John Rumm
The ethernet sockets are usually just there as a feed through - often
connecting them to some surge protection, but not actually allowing any
communication with the UPS itself. A use case might be to place it
between the ethernet connection between your broadband modem and the
rest of the network. That way if the router is also connected to a phone
line which could be struck by lightening, it might stop damage
propagating to other things on the network.
(Probably not much real value anyway, since ethernet connectors are
usually opto or magnetically isolated)

Ethernet transformers are only rated up to about 1.5kV (or maybe 3kV?). A
lightning strike could exceed that. The MOVs in the surge protection are
intended to absorb that spike (until they immolate anyway).

A direct strike will likely kill many things, although a saving grace is
your average 2 pair phone flex won't actually carry much current.

Post by Theo
Although it's probably more useful for copper phone lines (at the risk of
reducing your DSL speed) than ethernet, since if you have fibre there's no
overhead copper pair for the lightning to strike and the fibre isn't
affected by the strong electromagnetic fields.

Many overhead fibre connections have been run with a copper pair in the
bundle... I have a pair that splits off from mine.

Post by Theo
(or could the lightning propagate far enough along the steel tensioning wire
to cause trouble?)
But if you're running ethernet outside (eg to a shed or an EV charger) then
they could be handy.

Running SWA CAT5 can help there.
--
Cheers,

John.

/=================================================================\
| Internode Ltd - http://www.internode.co.uk |
|-----------------------------------------------------------------|
| John Rumm - john(at)internode(dot)co(dot)uk |
\=================================================================/

[Spike]

Post by Tim Streater

Post by Spike
Some 90% of the instruction manual concerns the management software, which
is only available for Windows. It isn’t necessary to run any software to
use the device.

Plug the usually-supplied USB cable into a Mac, and it will detect it
automatically as a UPS and provide basic information (such as battery level)
in the Energy Saver pane of System Settings.

Ah…just tried that, however, Energy Saver isn’t showing the UPS, but my OS
is so old it probably hasn’t got the ability to do that! And it won’t
update, either…