Discussion:
Blanced flue gas fire
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Chade
2021-01-12 18:18:50 UTC
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Hello

I am after a balanced flue gas fire. Can anyone please suggest a good place to get one from? It is for an old cottage so Ideally I would like a mock wood-burner style one (I assume you can get balanced flue ones in that style). In terms of size 5 KW+. The alcove it would stand in only has an external wall on the one side, so it would have an elbow in the flue.

Thanks.
Andrew
2021-01-12 19:19:45 UTC
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Post by Chade
Hello
I am after a balanced flue gas fire. Can anyone please suggest a good place to get one from? It is for an old cottage so Ideally I would like a mock wood-burner style one (I assume you can get balanced flue ones in that style). In terms of size 5 KW+. The alcove it would stand in only has an external wall on the one side, so it would have an elbow in the flue.
Thanks.
GAZCO. Made in Devon.


https://www.stovax.com/chimneys-flues/chimneys-flue-systems-for-gas-stoves-fires/#balancedflue
Jimmy Stewart
2021-01-12 19:35:53 UTC
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Post by Chade
Hello
I am after a balanced flue gas fire. Can anyone please suggest a good place to get one from? It is for an old cottage so Ideally I would like a mock wood-burner style one (I assume you can get balanced flue ones in that style). In terms of size 5 KW+. The alcove it would stand in only has an external wall on the one side, so it would have an elbow in the flue.
Thanks.
you will be lucky if you can find a gas engineer willing to install it...
--
On FT8 nobody knows you're a dog ...
polygonum_on_google
2021-01-12 22:40:32 UTC
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Post by Jimmy Stewart
Post by Chade
Hello
I am after a balanced flue gas fire. Can anyone please suggest a good place to get one from? It is for an old cottage so Ideally I would like a mock wood-burner style one (I assume you can get balanced flue ones in that style). In terms of size 5 KW+. The alcove it would stand in only has an external wall on the one side, so it would have an elbow in the flue.
Thanks.
you will be lucky if you can find a gas engineer willing to install it...
Why? Not flueless.
Jim GM4DHJ ...
2021-01-13 07:06:40 UTC
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Post by polygonum_on_google
Post by Jimmy Stewart
Post by Chade
Hello
I am after a balanced flue gas fire. Can anyone please suggest a good place to get one from? It is for an old cottage so Ideally I would like a mock wood-burner style one (I assume you can get balanced flue ones in that style). In terms of size 5 KW+. The alcove it would stand in only has an external wall on the one side, so it would have an elbow in the flue.
Thanks.
you will be lucky if you can find a gas engineer willing to install it...
Why? Not flueless.
they are not doing conventional ones either now.....check first
polygonum_on_google
2021-01-13 14:21:05 UTC
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Post by Jim GM4DHJ ...
Post by polygonum_on_google
Post by Jimmy Stewart
Post by Chade
Hello
I am after a balanced flue gas fire. Can anyone please suggest a good place to get one from? It is for an old cottage so Ideally I would like a mock wood-burner style one (I assume you can get balanced flue ones in that style). In terms of size 5 KW+. The alcove it would stand in only has an external wall on the one side, so it would have an elbow in the flue.
Thanks.
you will be lucky if you can find a gas engineer willing to install it...
Why? Not flueless.
they are not doing conventional ones either now.....check first
I can certainly find installers offering quotes.

Could explain why balanced flue gas fires are no longer being fitted?
Jimmy Stewart
2021-01-13 16:45:35 UTC
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Post by polygonum_on_google
Post by Jim GM4DHJ ...
Post by polygonum_on_google
Post by Jimmy Stewart
Post by Chade
Hello
I am after a balanced flue gas fire. Can anyone please suggest a good place to get one from? It is for an old cottage so Ideally I would like a mock wood-burner style one (I assume you can get balanced flue ones in that style). In terms of size 5 KW+. The alcove it would stand in only has an external wall on the one side, so it would have an elbow in the flue.
Thanks.
you will be lucky if you can find a gas engineer willing to install it...
Why? Not flueless.
they are not doing conventional ones either now.....check first
I can certainly find installers offering quotes.
Could explain why balanced flue gas fires are no longer being fitted?
well here is a quote from a gas safe installer I contacted
recently......"I'm sorry to say we, like most gas fitters have decided
not to fit flueless or conventional gas fires as the rules make it very
difficult".....
--
On FT8 nobody knows you're a dog ...
polygonum_on_google
2021-01-13 17:10:06 UTC
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Post by Jimmy Stewart
Post by polygonum_on_google
Post by Jim GM4DHJ ...
Post by polygonum_on_google
Post by Jimmy Stewart
Post by Chade
Hello
I am after a balanced flue gas fire. Can anyone please suggest a good place to get one from? It is for an old cottage so Ideally I would like a mock wood-burner style one (I assume you can get balanced flue ones in that style). In terms of size 5 KW+. The alcove it would stand in only has an external wall on the one side, so it would have an elbow in the flue.
Thanks.
you will be lucky if you can find a gas engineer willing to install it...
Why? Not flueless.
they are not doing conventional ones either now.....check first
I can certainly find installers offering quotes.
Could explain why balanced flue gas fires are no longer being fitted?
well here is a quote from a gas safe installer I contacted
recently......"I'm sorry to say we, like most gas fitters have decided
not to fit flueless or conventional gas fires as the rules make it very
difficult".....
Thank you.
Jimmy Stewart
2021-01-13 17:13:49 UTC
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Post by polygonum_on_google
Post by Jimmy Stewart
Post by polygonum_on_google
Post by Jim GM4DHJ ...
Post by polygonum_on_google
Post by Jimmy Stewart
Post by Chade
Hello
I am after a balanced flue gas fire. Can anyone please suggest a good place to get one from? It is for an old cottage so Ideally I would like a mock wood-burner style one (I assume you can get balanced flue ones in that style). In terms of size 5 KW+. The alcove it would stand in only has an external wall on the one side, so it would have an elbow in the flue.
Thanks.
you will be lucky if you can find a gas engineer willing to install it...
Why? Not flueless.
they are not doing conventional ones either now.....check first
I can certainly find installers offering quotes.
Could explain why balanced flue gas fires are no longer being fitted?
well here is a quote from a gas safe installer I contacted
recently......"I'm sorry to say we, like most gas fitters have decided
not to fit flueless or conventional gas fires as the rules make it very
difficult".....
Thank you.
Reading between the lines this is the result of some young girl being
killed recently by a fire...and all the air dilution tests etc that need
to be carried out...I just think they don't want to blamed for the next
death ....
--
On FT8 nobody knows you're a dog ...
Chris Green
2021-01-13 17:29:07 UTC
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Post by Jimmy Stewart
Post by polygonum_on_google
Post by Jim GM4DHJ ...
Post by polygonum_on_google
Why? Not flueless.
they are not doing conventional ones either now.....check first
I can certainly find installers offering quotes.
Could explain why balanced flue gas fires are no longer being fitted?
well here is a quote from a gas safe installer I contacted
recently......"I'm sorry to say we, like most gas fitters have decided
not to fit flueless or conventional gas fires as the rules make it very
difficult".....
To my mind there are three different types aren't there:-

Conventional - with a flue going up a chimney or similar, draw air
from room

Balanced Flue - Both air in and fumes out go via a hole in the
wall, no need for chimney, doesn't draw air from room

Flueless - No flue of any sort, draws air from room, exhausts to
room. Needs careful design to be sure gas fully burnt to CO2,
needs good ventilation.
--
Chris Green
·
Robin
2021-01-13 18:02:35 UTC
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Post by Chris Green
Post by Jimmy Stewart
Post by polygonum_on_google
Post by Jim GM4DHJ ...
Post by polygonum_on_google
Why? Not flueless.
they are not doing conventional ones either now.....check first
I can certainly find installers offering quotes.
Could explain why balanced flue gas fires are no longer being fitted?
well here is a quote from a gas safe installer I contacted
recently......"I'm sorry to say we, like most gas fitters have decided
not to fit flueless or conventional gas fires as the rules make it very
difficult".....
To my mind there are three different types aren't there:-
Conventional - with a flue going up a chimney or similar, draw air
from room
Balanced Flue - Both air in and fumes out go via a hole in the
wall, no need for chimney, doesn't draw air from room
Flueless - No flue of any sort, draws air from room, exhausts to
room. Needs careful design to be sure gas fully burnt to CO2,
needs good ventilation.
+1

and I'm surprised "most gas fitters" are refusing to fit fires with
conventional flues when they are still in demand for Victorian terraces
- and they used to charge a fortune
--
Robin
reply-to address is (intended to be) valid
charles
2021-01-13 18:16:43 UTC
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Post by Chris Green
Post by Jimmy Stewart
Post by polygonum_on_google
Post by Jim GM4DHJ ...
Post by polygonum_on_google
Why? Not flueless.
they are not doing conventional ones either now.....check first
I can certainly find installers offering quotes.
Could explain why balanced flue gas fires are no longer being fitted?
well here is a quote from a gas safe installer I contacted
recently......"I'm sorry to say we, like most gas fitters have
decided not to fit flueless or conventional gas fires as the rules
make it very difficult".....
To my mind there are three different types aren't there:-
Conventional - with a flue going up a chimney or similar, draw air
from room
Balanced Flue - Both air in and fumes out go via a hole in the wall,
no need for chimney, doesn't draw air from room
Flueless - No flue of any sort, draws air from room, exhausts to
room. Needs careful design to be sure gas fully burnt to CO2, needs
good ventilation.
I remember buying a flueless heater for our first house 1960s. by 1970, I'd
installed central heating with a balanced flue boiler.
--
from KT24 in Surrey, England
"I'd rather die of exhaustion than die of boredom" Thomas Carlyle
polygonum_on_google
2021-01-13 18:53:59 UTC
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Post by Chris Green
To my mind there are three different types aren't there:-
Conventional - with a flue going up a chimney or similar, draw air
from room
Balanced Flue - Both air in and fumes out go via a hole in the
wall, no need for chimney, doesn't draw air from room
Flueless - No flue of any sort, draws air from room, exhausts to
room. Needs careful design to be sure gas fully burnt to CO2,
needs good ventilation.
Yes - that is exactly what I am aware of.

The one I find difficult to understand them not installing is the balanced flue. After all, they are not that different to some boilers.
charles
2021-01-13 19:19:31 UTC
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Post by polygonum_on_google
Post by Chris Green
To my mind there are three different types aren't there:-
Conventional - with a flue going up a chimney or similar, draw air
from room
Balanced Flue - Both air in and fumes out go via a hole in the wall,
no need for chimney, doesn't draw air from room
Flueless - No flue of any sort, draws air from room, exhausts to room.
Needs careful design to be sure gas fully burnt to CO2, needs good
ventilation.
Yes - that is exactly what I am aware of.
The one I find difficult to understand them not installing is the
balanced flue. After all, they are not that different to some boilers.
ISTR - from 50+ years ago - that tehre were various requirements about
distance from opening windows, doors, etc. It may be that with smaller
houses they are becoming very difficult to fit and comply with the rules.
There might be a lot of paperwork, too. And then there's cutting quite a
large hole in the wall. not really a plumbing job.
--
from KT24 in Surrey, England
"I'd rather die of exhaustion than die of boredom" Thomas Carlyle
John Rumm
2021-01-18 13:46:31 UTC
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Post by charles
Post by polygonum_on_google
Post by Chris Green
To my mind there are three different types aren't there:-
Conventional - with a flue going up a chimney or similar, draw air
from room
Balanced Flue - Both air in and fumes out go via a hole in the wall,
no need for chimney, doesn't draw air from room
Flueless - No flue of any sort, draws air from room, exhausts to room.
Needs careful design to be sure gas fully burnt to CO2, needs good
ventilation.
Yes - that is exactly what I am aware of.
The one I find difficult to understand them not installing is the
balanced flue. After all, they are not that different to some boilers.
ISTR - from 50+ years ago - that tehre were various requirements about
distance from opening windows, doors, etc. It may be that with smaller
houses they are becoming very difficult to fit and comply with the rules.
There might be a lot of paperwork, too. And then there's cutting quite a
large hole in the wall. not really a plumbing job.
As with most plumbing and wiring jobs, much of the work comes under a
general category of house bashing. So any plumber / gas fitter will be
well equipped for jobs involving cutting holes in walls.
--
Cheers,

John.

/=================================================================\
| Internode Ltd - http://www.internode.co.uk |
|-----------------------------------------------------------------|
| John Rumm - john(at)internode(dot)co(dot)uk |
\=================================================================/
S Viemeister
2021-01-18 14:39:38 UTC
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Post by John Rumm
Post by charles
ISTR - from 50+ years ago - that tehre were various requirements about
distance from opening windows, doors, etc.  It may be that with smaller
houses they are becoming very difficult to fit and comply with the rules.
There might be a lot of paperwork, too.  And then there's cutting quite a
large hole in the wall.  not really a plumbing job.
As with most plumbing and wiring jobs, much of the work comes under a
general category of house bashing. So any plumber / gas fitter will be
well equipped for jobs involving cutting holes in walls.
You'd think so.
Last year we had our garage converted to useful living space, and
because we wanted it done in our lifetime, we hired an electrician and
plumber recommended by our architect.
When it came time to install the extractor fans (one in the shower room,
one in the utility room), the electrician said that wasn't HIS job, it
was the plumber's. The plumber said, no way, it's for the electrician to do.
We finally got the mason to do it...and for any future work, we won't be
hiring that plumber and electrician. There were other issues, with both
of them.
John Rumm
2021-01-19 12:23:58 UTC
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Post by S Viemeister
Post by John Rumm
Post by charles
ISTR - from 50+ years ago - that tehre were various requirements about
distance from opening windows, doors, etc.  It may be that with smaller
houses they are becoming very difficult to fit and comply with the rules.
There might be a lot of paperwork, too.  And then there's cutting quite a
large hole in the wall.  not really a plumbing job.
As with most plumbing and wiring jobs, much of the work comes under a
general category of house bashing. So any plumber / gas fitter will be
well equipped for jobs involving cutting holes in walls.
You'd think so.
Last year we had our garage converted to useful living space, and
because we wanted it done in our lifetime, we hired an electrician and
plumber recommended by our architect.
When it came time to install the extractor fans (one in the shower room,
one in the utility room), the electrician said that wasn't HIS job, it
was the plumber's. The plumber said, no way, it's for the electrician to > do.
I wonder what the electrician would have said if there was no plumber on
site?
Post by S Viemeister
We finally got the mason to do it...and for any future work, we won't be
hiring that plumber and electrician. There were other issues, with both
of them.
Understandably!
--
Cheers,

John.

/=================================================================\
| Internode Ltd - http://www.internode.co.uk |
|-----------------------------------------------------------------|
| John Rumm - john(at)internode(dot)co(dot)uk |
\=================================================================/
S Viemeister
2021-01-19 12:36:19 UTC
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Post by John Rumm
Post by S Viemeister
Last year we had our garage converted to useful living space, and
because we wanted it done in our lifetime, we hired an electrician and
plumber recommended by our architect.
When it came time to install the extractor fans (one in the shower
room, one in the utility room), the electrician said that wasn't HIS
job, it was the plumber's. The plumber said, no way, it's for the
electrician to  > do.
I wonder what the electrician would have said if there was no plumber on
site?
I did ask why an electrical installation, not connected to either the
plumbing or the heating, needed a plumber to drill a hole in the wall..
Didn't get a sensible answer, though.
Post by John Rumm
Post by S Viemeister
We finally got the mason to do it...and for any future work, we won't
be hiring that plumber and electrician. There were other issues, with
both of them.
Understandably!
Dave Plowman (News)
2021-01-19 14:10:12 UTC
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Post by John Rumm
I wonder what the electrician would have said if there was no plumber on
site?
Many years ago, I re-wired a colleague's 'new' house, before he moved in.
He'd had several quotes, and I gave him a price based on the information
he'd used for those. I beat those quotes and made it clear I could only do
the work on days off from my proper work.

On arrival to start, was grabbed by the plumbers installing the CH. 'Glad
you're here - can you get the wiring for it done ASAP as agreed by the
client"

Each time I got there, there'd be a note asking for an additional
socket/light/whatever.

Big argument at pay time. He expected the original quote to be honoured.
--
*Windows will never cease *

Dave Plowman ***@davenoise.co.uk London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.
Jim GM4DHJ ...
2021-01-14 08:29:33 UTC
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Post by Chris Green
Post by Jimmy Stewart
Post by polygonum_on_google
Post by Jim GM4DHJ ...
Post by polygonum_on_google
Why? Not flueless.
they are not doing conventional ones either now.....check first
I can certainly find installers offering quotes.
Could explain why balanced flue gas fires are no longer being fitted?
well here is a quote from a gas safe installer I contacted
recently......"I'm sorry to say we, like most gas fitters have decided
not to fit flueless or conventional gas fires as the rules make it very
difficult".....
To my mind there are three different types aren't there:-
Conventional - with a flue going up a chimney or similar, draw air
from room
Balanced Flue - Both air in and fumes out go via a hole in the
wall, no need for chimney, doesn't draw air from room
Flueless - No flue of any sort, draws air from room, exhausts to
room. Needs careful design to be sure gas fully burnt to CO2,
needs good ventilation.
yes bet they would fit balanced flue fires....no air vents or chimneys
to block up .....
Dave Plowman (News)
2021-01-18 14:20:18 UTC
Reply
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Post by Chade
I am after a balanced flue gas fire. Can anyone please suggest a good
place to get one from? It is for an old cottage so Ideally I would like
a mock wood-burner style one (I assume you can get balanced flue ones in
that style). In terms of size 5 KW+. The alcove it would stand in only
has an external wall on the one side, so it would have an elbow in the
flue.
Do such things exist? BF boilers with fan assisted flues are common and
allow long terminals. Not sure the demand for BF fires is great enough to
make it worth the effort designing one.
--
*I'm not being rude. You're just insignificant

Dave Plowman ***@davenoise.co.uk London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.
Andrew
2021-01-19 16:06:05 UTC
Reply
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Post by Dave Plowman (News)
Post by Chade
I am after a balanced flue gas fire. Can anyone please suggest a good
place to get one from? It is for an old cottage so Ideally I would like
a mock wood-burner style one (I assume you can get balanced flue ones in
that style). In terms of size 5 KW+. The alcove it would stand in only
has an external wall on the one side, so it would have an elbow in the
flue.
Do such things exist? BF boilers with fan assisted flues are common and
allow long terminals. Not sure the demand for BF fires is great enough to
make it worth the effort designing one.
Gazco, Devon. Read the whole thread.

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