Discussion:
Uh Oh. first Bilsdale, now Kent Interconnector
(too old to reply)
Andrew
2021-09-15 19:52:14 UTC
Permalink
https://www.telegraph.co.uk/business/2021/09/15/fire-knocks-key-electricity-cable-france/
Brian Gaff (Sofa)
2021-09-16 06:50:27 UTC
Permalink
Well, I've often wondered how come some of those cross channel cables have
not developed faults before now, however will anyone look at the eggs in one
basket issues of telephones, power etc, which are being made at the moment?
Of course not till it bites us all in the bum.
Brian
--
This newsgroup posting comes to you directly from...
The Sofa of Brian Gaff...
***@blueyonder.co.uk
Blind user, so no pictures please
Note this Signature is meaningless.!
Post by Andrew
https://www.telegraph.co.uk/business/2021/09/15/fire-knocks-key-electricity-cable-france/
SH
2021-09-16 06:58:49 UTC
Permalink
Post by Brian Gaff (Sofa)
Well, I've often wondered how come some of those cross channel cables have
not developed faults before now, however will anyone look at the eggs in one
basket issues of telephones, power etc, which are being made at the moment?
Of course not till it bites us all in the bum.
Brian
An interesting point about these interconnecotrs is that they are DC.

SO whats the energy losses like rectifying AC current to DC and again
when its converted back to AC?

WWhy do this double conversion in the first place?

Would it not be easier to synchronise the two countries AC frequencies
and phase, and also less lossy?
Tim+
2021-09-16 07:05:48 UTC
Permalink
Post by SH
Post by Brian Gaff (Sofa)
Well, I've often wondered how come some of those cross channel cables have
not developed faults before now, however will anyone look at the eggs in one
basket issues of telephones, power etc, which are being made at the moment?
Of course not till it bites us all in the bum.
Brian
An interesting point about these interconnecotrs is that they are DC.
SO whats the energy losses like rectifying AC current to DC and again
when its converted back to AC?
WWhy do this double conversion in the first place?
Would it not be easier to synchronise the two countries AC frequencies
and phase, and also less lossy?
It’s to do with power losses due to cable capacitance over long distances.

From wiki.

“Most electrical power transmission systems use alternating current (AC),
because transformers can easily change voltages as needed. High-voltage
direct current transmission requires a converter at each end of a direct
current line to interface to an alternating current grid. A system using
submarine power cables may be less costly overall if using high-voltage
direct current transmission, especially on a long link where the
capacitance of the cable would require too much additional charging
current. The inner and outer conductors of a cable form the plates of a
capacitor, and if the cable is long (on the order of tens of kilometres),
the current that flows through this capacitance may be significant compared
to the load current. This would require larger, therefore more costly,
conductors for a given quantity of usable power to be transmitted.”

Tim
--
Please don't feed the trolls
SH
2021-09-16 07:17:37 UTC
Permalink
Post by Tim+
Post by SH
Post by Brian Gaff (Sofa)
Well, I've often wondered how come some of those cross channel cables have
not developed faults before now, however will anyone look at the eggs in one
basket issues of telephones, power etc, which are being made at the moment?
Of course not till it bites us all in the bum.
Brian
An interesting point about these interconnecotrs is that they are DC.
SO whats the energy losses like rectifying AC current to DC and again
when its converted back to AC?
WWhy do this double conversion in the first place?
Would it not be easier to synchronise the two countries AC frequencies
and phase, and also less lossy?
It’s to do with power losses due to cable capacitance over long distances.
From wiki.
“Most electrical power transmission systems use alternating current (AC),
because transformers can easily change voltages as needed. High-voltage
direct current transmission requires a converter at each end of a direct
current line to interface to an alternating current grid. A system using
submarine power cables may be less costly overall if using high-voltage
direct current transmission, especially on a long link where the
capacitance of the cable would require too much additional charging
current. The inner and outer conductors of a cable form the plates of a
capacitor, and if the cable is long (on the order of tens of kilometres),
the current that flows through this capacitance may be significant compared
to the load current. This would require larger, therefore more costly,
conductors for a given quantity of usable power to be transmitted.”
Tim
ah ha and presumably you'd also have to do some power factor
correction.... that would not be trivial to do at high voltage and high
current....
newshound
2021-09-16 07:36:54 UTC
Permalink
Post by SH
Post by Tim+
Post by Brian Gaff (Sofa)
Well, I've often wondered how come some of those cross channel cables have
not developed faults before now, however will anyone look at the eggs in one
basket issues of telephones, power etc, which are being made at the moment?
Of course not till it bites us all in the bum.
Brian
  An interesting point about these interconnecotrs is that they are DC.
SO whats the energy losses like rectifying AC current to DC and again
when its converted back to AC?
WWhy do this double conversion in the first place?
Would it not be easier to synchronise the two countries AC frequencies
and phase, and also less lossy?
It’s to do with power losses due to cable capacitance over long distances.
 From wiki.
“Most electrical power transmission systems use alternating current (AC),
because transformers can easily change voltages as needed. High-voltage
direct current transmission requires a converter at each end of a direct
current line to interface to an alternating current grid. A system using
submarine power cables may be less costly overall if using high-voltage
direct current transmission, especially on a long link where the
capacitance of the cable would require too much additional charging
current. The inner and outer conductors of a cable form the plates of a
capacitor, and if the cable is long (on the order of tens of kilometres),
the current that flows through this capacitance may be significant compared
to the load current. This would require larger, therefore more costly,
conductors for a given quantity of usable power to be transmitted.”
Tim
ah ha and presumably you'd also have to do some power factor
correction.... that would not be trivial to do at high voltage and high
 current....
No different from at present, there is hardware for power factor
correction at strategic points on the existing grid.
newshound
2021-09-16 07:35:09 UTC
Permalink
Post by Tim+
Post by SH
Post by Brian Gaff (Sofa)
Well, I've often wondered how come some of those cross channel cables have
not developed faults before now, however will anyone look at the eggs in one
basket issues of telephones, power etc, which are being made at the moment?
Of course not till it bites us all in the bum.
Brian
An interesting point about these interconnecotrs is that they are DC.
SO whats the energy losses like rectifying AC current to DC and again
when its converted back to AC?
WWhy do this double conversion in the first place?
Would it not be easier to synchronise the two countries AC frequencies
and phase, and also less lossy?
It’s to do with power losses due to cable capacitance over long distances.
From wiki.
“Most electrical power transmission systems use alternating current (AC),
because transformers can easily change voltages as needed. High-voltage
direct current transmission requires a converter at each end of a direct
current line to interface to an alternating current grid. A system using
submarine power cables may be less costly overall if using high-voltage
direct current transmission, especially on a long link where the
capacitance of the cable would require too much additional charging
current. The inner and outer conductors of a cable form the plates of a
capacitor, and if the cable is long (on the order of tens of kilometres),
the current that flows through this capacitance may be significant compared
to the load current. This would require larger, therefore more costly,
conductors for a given quantity of usable power to be transmitted.”
Tim
And of course the rectification and inversion is all done in solid state
these days, so the conversion losses are relatively low, and big
transformers are pretty efficient.
SH
2021-09-16 08:00:10 UTC
Permalink
Post by newshound
Post by Tim+
Post by Brian Gaff (Sofa)
Well, I've often wondered how come some of those cross channel cables have
not developed faults before now, however will anyone look at the eggs in one
basket issues of telephones, power etc, which are being made at the moment?
Of course not till it bites us all in the bum.
Brian
  An interesting point about these interconnecotrs is that they are DC.
SO whats the energy losses like rectifying AC current to DC and again
when its converted back to AC?
WWhy do this double conversion in the first place?
Would it not be easier to synchronise the two countries AC frequencies
and phase, and also less lossy?
It’s to do with power losses due to cable capacitance over long distances.
 From wiki.
“Most electrical power transmission systems use alternating current (AC),
because transformers can easily change voltages as needed. High-voltage
direct current transmission requires a converter at each end of a direct
current line to interface to an alternating current grid. A system using
submarine power cables may be less costly overall if using high-voltage
direct current transmission, especially on a long link where the
capacitance of the cable would require too much additional charging
current. The inner and outer conductors of a cable form the plates of a
capacitor, and if the cable is long (on the order of tens of kilometres),
the current that flows through this capacitance may be significant compared
to the load current. This would require larger, therefore more costly,
conductors for a given quantity of usable power to be transmitted.”
Tim
And of course the rectification and inversion is all done in solid state
these days, so the conversion losses are relatively low, and big
transformers are pretty efficient.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/IFA-2 says its a cable operating at 320 kV
and power of 1,000 MW.

SO from P=IV, I = P /V whihc gives a current of 3,125 Amps.

For rectification:

if we assume silicon diodes are used with a junction voltage of 0.6 V
and that we assume that a full wave bridge rectifier is used.

lets assume 3,125 amps is flowing through that diode. The power loss
across that diode which is lost to heat is going to be 1,875 Watts per
diode.

So in a full wave bridge rectifier of 4 diodes, thats 7.5 kW of heat to
dissipate..... :-)

S.
Owain Lastname
2021-09-16 08:04:43 UTC
Permalink
Post by SH
So in a full wave bridge rectifier of 4 diodes, thats 7.5 kW of heat to
dissipate..... :-)
Less than some people have in their bitmine rigs at home.

Owain
newshound
2021-09-16 08:10:07 UTC
Permalink
Post by SH
Post by newshound
Post by Tim+
Post by Brian Gaff (Sofa)
Well, I've often wondered how come some of those cross channel cables have
not developed faults before now, however will anyone look at the eggs in one
basket issues of telephones, power etc, which are being made at the moment?
Of course not till it bites us all in the bum.
Brian
  An interesting point about these interconnecotrs is that they are DC.
SO whats the energy losses like rectifying AC current to DC and again
when its converted back to AC?
WWhy do this double conversion in the first place?
Would it not be easier to synchronise the two countries AC frequencies
and phase, and also less lossy?
It’s to do with power losses due to cable capacitance over long distances.
 From wiki.
“Most electrical power transmission systems use alternating current (AC),
because transformers can easily change voltages as needed. High-voltage
direct current transmission requires a converter at each end of a direct
current line to interface to an alternating current grid. A system using
submarine power cables may be less costly overall if using high-voltage
direct current transmission, especially on a long link where the
capacitance of the cable would require too much additional charging
current. The inner and outer conductors of a cable form the plates of a
capacitor, and if the cable is long (on the order of tens of
kilometres),
the current that flows through this capacitance may be significant compared
to the load current. This would require larger, therefore more costly,
conductors for a given quantity of usable power to be transmitted.”
Tim
And of course the rectification and inversion is all done in solid
state these days, so the conversion losses are relatively low, and big
transformers are pretty efficient.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/IFA-2 says its a cable operating at 320 kV
and power of 1,000 MW.
SO from P=IV, I = P /V whihc gives a current of 3,125 Amps.
if we assume silicon diodes are used with a junction voltage of 0.6 V
and that we assume that a full wave bridge rectifier is used.
lets assume 3,125 amps is flowing through that diode. The power loss
across that diode which is lost to heat is going to be 1,875 Watts per
diode.
So in a full wave bridge rectifier of 4 diodes, thats 7.5 kW of heat to
dissipate..... :-)
S.
And you don't call that efficient?
SH
2021-09-16 08:16:42 UTC
Permalink
Post by newshound
Post by SH
Post by newshound
Post by Tim+
Post by Brian Gaff (Sofa)
Well, I've often wondered how come some of those cross channel cables have
not developed faults before now, however will anyone look at the eggs in one
basket issues of telephones, power etc, which are being made at the moment?
Of course not till it bites us all in the bum.
Brian
  An interesting point about these interconnecotrs is that they are DC.
SO whats the energy losses like rectifying AC current to DC and again
when its converted back to AC?
WWhy do this double conversion in the first place?
Would it not be easier to synchronise the two countries AC frequencies
and phase, and also less lossy?
It’s to do with power losses due to cable capacitance over long distances.
 From wiki.
“Most electrical power transmission systems use alternating current (AC),
because transformers can easily change voltages as needed. High-voltage
direct current transmission requires a converter at each end of a direct
current line to interface to an alternating current grid. A system using
submarine power cables may be less costly overall if using high-voltage
direct current transmission, especially on a long link where the
capacitance of the cable would require too much additional charging
current. The inner and outer conductors of a cable form the plates of a
capacitor, and if the cable is long (on the order of tens of kilometres),
the current that flows through this capacitance may be significant compared
to the load current. This would require larger, therefore more costly,
conductors for a given quantity of usable power to be transmitted.”
Tim
And of course the rectification and inversion is all done in solid
state these days, so the conversion losses are relatively low, and
big transformers are pretty efficient.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/IFA-2 says its a cable operating at 320
kV and power of 1,000 MW.
SO from P=IV, I = P /V whihc gives a current of 3,125 Amps.
if we assume silicon diodes are used with a junction voltage of 0.6 V
and that we assume that a full wave bridge rectifier is used.
lets assume 3,125 amps is flowing through that diode. The power loss
across that diode which is lost to heat is going to be 1,875 Watts per
diode.
So in a full wave bridge rectifier of 4 diodes, thats 7.5 kW of heat
to dissipate..... :-)
S.
And you don't call that efficient?
Don;t forget there's actually 3 phases so the heat loss is triple that
at 22.5 kW as then 3 sets of bridge rectifiers are needed.

I've not even worked out the losses at the inverter end yet..... :-)
newshound
2021-09-16 20:18:57 UTC
Permalink
Post by SH
Post by newshound
Post by SH
Post by newshound
Post by Tim+
Post by Brian Gaff (Sofa)
Well, I've often wondered how come some of those cross channel cables have
not developed faults before now, however will anyone look at the eggs in one
basket issues of telephones, power etc, which are being made at the moment?
Of course not till it bites us all in the bum.
Brian
  An interesting point about these interconnecotrs is that they are DC.
SO whats the energy losses like rectifying AC current to DC and again
when its converted back to AC?
WWhy do this double conversion in the first place?
Would it not be easier to synchronise the two countries AC frequencies
and phase, and also less lossy?
It’s to do with power losses due to cable capacitance over long distances.
 From wiki.
“Most electrical power transmission systems use alternating current (AC),
because transformers can easily change voltages as needed.
High-voltage
direct current transmission requires a converter at each end of a direct
current line to interface to an alternating current grid. A system using
submarine power cables may be less costly overall if using
high-voltage
direct current transmission, especially on a long link where the
capacitance of the cable would require too much additional charging
current. The inner and outer conductors of a cable form the plates of a
capacitor, and if the cable is long (on the order of tens of kilometres),
the current that flows through this capacitance may be significant compared
to the load current. This would require larger, therefore more costly,
conductors for a given quantity of usable power to be transmitted.”
Tim
And of course the rectification and inversion is all done in solid
state these days, so the conversion losses are relatively low, and
big transformers are pretty efficient.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/IFA-2 says its a cable operating at 320
kV and power of 1,000 MW.
SO from P=IV, I = P /V whihc gives a current of 3,125 Amps.
if we assume silicon diodes are used with a junction voltage of 0.6 V
and that we assume that a full wave bridge rectifier is used.
lets assume 3,125 amps is flowing through that diode. The power loss
across that diode which is lost to heat is going to be 1,875 Watts
per diode.
So in a full wave bridge rectifier of 4 diodes, thats 7.5 kW of heat
to dissipate..... :-)
S.
And you don't call that efficient?
Don;t forget there's actually 3 phases so the heat loss is triple that
at 22.5 kW as then 3 sets of bridge rectifiers are needed.
OK that is 99.9978% efficient then.
Post by SH
I've not even worked out the losses at the inverter end yet..... :-)
Paul
2021-09-16 21:52:20 UTC
Permalink
Post by newshound
Post by SH
Post by newshound
Post by SH
Post by newshound
Post by Tim+
Post by SH
Post by Brian Gaff (Sofa)
Well, I've often wondered how come some of those cross channel cables have
not developed faults before now, however will anyone look at the eggs in one
basket issues of telephones, power etc, which are being made at the moment?
Of course not till it bites us all in the bum.
Brian
An interesting point about these interconnecotrs is that they are DC.
SO whats the energy losses like rectifying AC current to DC and again
when its converted back to AC?
WWhy do this double conversion in the first place?
Would it not be easier to synchronise the two countries AC frequencies
and phase, and also less lossy?
It’s to do with power losses due to cable capacitance over long distances.
From wiki.
“Most electrical power transmission systems use alternating current (AC),
because transformers can easily change voltages as needed. High-voltage
direct current transmission requires a converter at each end of a direct
current line to interface to an alternating current grid. A system using
submarine power cables may be less costly overall if using high-voltage
direct current transmission, especially on a long link where the
capacitance of the cable would require too much additional charging
current. The inner and outer conductors of a cable form the plates of a
capacitor, and if the cable is long (on the order of tens of kilometres),
the current that flows through this capacitance may be significant compared
to the load current. This would require larger, therefore more costly,
conductors for a given quantity of usable power to be transmitted.”
Tim
And of course the rectification and inversion is all done in solid
state these days, so the conversion losses are relatively low, and
big transformers are pretty efficient.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/IFA-2 says its a cable operating at
320 kV and power of 1,000 MW.
SO from P=IV, I = P /V whihc gives a current of 3,125 Amps.
if we assume silicon diodes are used with a junction voltage of 0.6
V and that we assume that a full wave bridge rectifier is used.
lets assume 3,125 amps is flowing through that diode. The power loss
across that diode which is lost to heat is going to be 1,875 Watts
per diode.
So in a full wave bridge rectifier of 4 diodes, thats 7.5 kW of heat
to dissipate..... :-)
S.
And you don't call that efficient?
Don;t forget there's actually 3 phases so the heat loss is triple that
at 22.5 kW as then 3 sets of bridge rectifiers are needed.
OK that is 99.9978% efficient then.
There are more than silicon diodes available. Active rectification
allows taking advantage of the ON resistance of a controlled
switch, instead of the passive response curve of a silicon diode.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Active_rectification

Even Schottky diodes for bridge rectifiers aren't all
that good, once the current flow increases in magnitude.
A Schottky might manage 0.2 to 0.3 volts of Vf at small
currents. But once you raise the current high enough,
they're about as wasteful as regular diodes. I have some
very nice 2 amp Schottky diodes here, they look positively heroic
at low current, but up around 0.5 amp, they're not so good.

In your IBM PC compatible, the ATX power supply sometimes
has rectifier components that are bolted to heatsinks
inside, to dissipate the heat from the method.

A heatsink to dissipate 22.5kW, would be impressively large.
That's more than enough heat, to heat a home.

And if you build a "hall" around such a device, the side
effects of fire can be pretty messy. A substation here which
is housed in a "barn", when something in there caught fire,
they were doing maintenance and repair, while wearing air packs.
Not a very convenient way to work. We've had fires in some
underground facilities (a popular method for housing power
components in another city), and when you see pictures
of what the working conditions are like, after a fire in
one of those, it's like a dark, sooty, hell-hole. You can't
bring enough auxiliary lighting into one of those, to see
what you're doing, as everything is dirty afterwards.

A "hall" around one of these really large devices, is
likely an essential part of it. But if there's a failure
in there, it's not going to be the most pleasant working
conditions.

Paul

Andy Burns
2021-09-16 08:52:30 UTC
Permalink
Post by SH
if we assume silicon diodes are used with a junction voltage of 0.6 V
and that we assume that a full wave bridge rectifier is used.
lets assume 3,125 amps is flowing through that diode. The power loss
across that diode which is lost to heat is going to be 1,875 Watts per
diode.
So in a full wave bridge rectifier of 4 diodes, thats 7.5 kW of heat to
dissipate..... :-)
but then it's 3 phase, and I remember reading somewhere they operate as
a 12-phase device, probably it'll be using 2 out of 12
diodes/scrs/whatever at any time so a lower duty cycle to spread the
heat between them ...

wiki article has some impressive photos

<https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/HVDC_converter>
Ian
2021-09-16 17:26:15 UTC
Permalink
Post by SH
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/IFA-2 says its a cable operating at 320 kV
and power of 1,000 MW.
SO from P=IV, I = P /V whihc gives a current of 3,125 Amps.
if we assume silicon diodes are used with a junction voltage of 0.6 V
and that we assume that a full wave bridge rectifier is used.
lets assume 3,125 amps is flowing through that diode. The power loss
across that diode which is lost to heat is going to be 1,875 Watts per
diode.
So in a full wave bridge rectifier of 4 diodes, thats 7.5 kW of heat to
dissipate..... :-)
But they won't be using Si diodes, probably IGBTs, hundreds of them, in parallel
for the amps and series for the volts. Very low loss.
--
Ian

"Tamahome!!!" - "Miaka!!!"
Steve Walker
2021-09-16 19:41:06 UTC
Permalink
Post by Ian
Post by SH
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/IFA-2 says its a cable operating at 320 kV
and power of 1,000 MW.
SO from P=IV, I = P /V whihc gives a current of 3,125 Amps.
if we assume silicon diodes are used with a junction voltage of 0.6 V
and that we assume that a full wave bridge rectifier is used.
lets assume 3,125 amps is flowing through that diode. The power loss
across that diode which is lost to heat is going to be 1,875 Watts per
diode.
So in a full wave bridge rectifier of 4 diodes, thats 7.5 kW of heat to
dissipate..... :-)
But they won't be using Si diodes, probably IGBTs, hundreds of them, in parallel
for the amps and series for the volts. Very low loss.
Thyristors apparently. Oddly, when grouped together for the voltage and
current, the old terms have carried over and they seem to be referred to
as Thyristor Valves. They are are water cooled, although the lower power
ones on the first cross-channel link were air-cooled.
John Walliker
2021-09-16 13:09:58 UTC
Permalink
Post by SH
Why do this double conversion in the first place?
Would it not be easier to synchronise the two countries AC frequencies
and phase, and also less lossy?
No, that would be extremely difficult to do reliably. It would mean trying to
keep the whole of Europe synchronised with the UK. Large AC grids tend
to become unstable.

John
williamwright
2021-09-16 15:41:53 UTC
Permalink
Post by John Walliker
No, that would be extremely difficult to do reliably. It would mean trying to
keep the whole of Europe synchronised with the UK. Large AC grids tend
to become unstable.
There's a physical limit cause by by speed of transmission.

Bill
David
2021-09-16 11:29:07 UTC
Permalink
Post by Andrew
https://www.telegraph.co.uk/business/2021/09/15/fire-knocks-key-
electricity-cable-france/

Meanwhile proposals for a new interconnect are not popular with locals.
<https://www.eadt.co.uk/news/national-grid-ventures-nautilus-
project-8325478>

Consensus seems to be "My bit of Suffolk? No, move it further south or put
it in Essex."

This current outage should focus various minds on how few interconnects we
have and how much we depend on them.

Cheers


Dave R
--
AMD FX-6300 in GA-990X-Gaming SLI-CF running Windows 7 Pro x64
--
This email has been checked for viruses by Avast antivirus software.
https://www.avast.com/antivirus
The Natural Philosopher
2021-09-16 11:35:09 UTC
Permalink
Post by Andrew
Post by Andrew
https://www.telegraph.co.uk/business/2021/09/15/fire-knocks-key-
electricity-cable-france/
Meanwhile proposals for a new interconnect are not popular with locals.
<https://www.eadt.co.uk/news/national-grid-ventures-nautilus-
project-8325478>
Consensus seems to be "My bit of Suffolk? No, move it further south or put
it in Essex."
This current outage should focus various minds on how few interconnects we
have and how much we depend on them.
This current outage should focus various minds on how many interconnects we
have and how little we *need* them.

What we need is nuclear coal and gas.
--
The urge to save humanity is almost always a false front for the urge to
rule.
– H. L. Mencken, American journalist, 1880-1956
Sysadmin
2021-09-16 13:20:06 UTC
Permalink
Post by The Natural Philosopher
Post by Andrew
Post by Andrew
https://www.telegraph.co.uk/business/2021/09/15/fire-knocks-key-
electricity-cable-france/
Meanwhile proposals for a new interconnect are not popular with locals.
<https://www.eadt.co.uk/news/national-grid-ventures-nautilus-
project-8325478>
Consensus seems to be "My bit of Suffolk? No, move it further south or
put it in Essex."
This current outage should focus various minds on how few interconnects
we have and how much we depend on them.
This current outage should focus various minds on how many interconnects
we have and how little we *need* them.
What we need is nuclear coal and gas.
.....but the conservative government missed the best opportunity in the
1990s for building nuclear power stations, infuenced by Greenpeace.
Harry Bloomfield, Esq.
2021-09-16 14:36:03 UTC
Permalink
This currenent outage should focus various minds on how many interconnects we
have and how little we *need* them.
What we need is nuclear coal and gas.
+1, but there is a Europe wide gas shortage.
The Natural Philosopher
2021-09-16 15:11:54 UTC
Permalink
Post by Harry Bloomfield, Esq.
This currenent outage should focus various minds on how many
interconnects we
have and how little we *need* them.
What we need is nuclear coal and gas.
+1, but there is a Europe wide gas shortage.
Ok what we need is nuclear coal and gas, and storåge of gas. And a
political climate that renders these profitable
--
For in reason, all government without the consent of the governed is the
very definition of slavery.

Jonathan Swift
Andrew
2021-09-16 15:02:34 UTC
Permalink
Post by The Natural Philosopher
Post by Andrew
Post by Andrew
https://www.telegraph.co.uk/business/2021/09/15/fire-knocks-key-
electricity-cable-france/
Meanwhile proposals for a new interconnect are not popular with locals.
<https://www.eadt.co.uk/news/national-grid-ventures-nautilus-
project-8325478>
Consensus seems to be "My bit of Suffolk? No, move it further south or put
it in Essex."
This current outage should focus various minds on how few
interconnects we
have and how much we depend on them.
This current outage should focus various minds on how many interconnects we
have and how little we *need* them.
What we need is nuclear coal and gas.
What we need is nuclear. Some gas for emergencies and ZERO coal
usage apart from those metallurgic processes where there is no
viable alternative.
Chris Hogg
2021-09-16 14:06:55 UTC
Permalink
Post by Andrew
Post by Andrew
https://www.telegraph.co.uk/business/2021/09/15/fire-knocks-key-
electricity-cable-france/
Meanwhile proposals for a new interconnect are not popular with locals.
<https://www.eadt.co.uk/news/national-grid-ventures-nautilus-
project-8325478>
Consensus seems to be "My bit of Suffolk? No, move it further south or put
it in Essex."
This current outage should focus various minds on how few interconnects we
have and how much we depend on them.
Cheers
Dave R
Interconnects are only of use if Europe has spare capacity. That will
not automatically be the case, but some seem to think that Europe will
always be there to make up any shortfall in our own generation.
--
Chris
The Natural Philosopher
2021-09-16 15:10:33 UTC
Permalink
Post by Chris Hogg
some seem to think that Europe will
always be there to make up any shortfall in our own generation.
Bless!
--
For in reason, all government without the consent of the governed is the
very definition of slavery.

Jonathan Swift
Robin
2021-09-16 17:15:16 UTC
Permalink
Post by Chris Hogg
Post by Andrew
Post by Andrew
https://www.telegraph.co.uk/business/2021/09/15/fire-knocks-key-
electricity-cable-france/
Meanwhile proposals for a new interconnect are not popular with locals.
<https://www.eadt.co.uk/news/national-grid-ventures-nautilus-
project-8325478>
Consensus seems to be "My bit of Suffolk? No, move it further south or put
it in Essex."
This current outage should focus various minds on how few interconnects we
have and how much we depend on them.
Cheers
Dave R
Interconnects are only of use if Europe has spare capacity. That will
not automatically be the case, but some seem to think that Europe will
always be there to make up any shortfall in our own generation.
Or to put it another way, interconnects are of great use because much of
the time someone, somewhere does have spare capacity. It's no accident
that even though most of Europe has more interconnect capacity than the
UK there are plans for new links.
--
Robin
reply-to address is (intended to be) valid
williamwright
2021-09-16 15:42:56 UTC
Permalink
Post by David
This current outage should focus various minds on how few interconnects we
have and how much we depend on them.
No it should focus various minds on how few nuclear power stations we have.

Bill
Steve Walker
2021-09-16 17:25:39 UTC
Permalink
Post by williamwright
Post by David
This current outage should focus various minds on how few
interconnects we
have and how much we depend on them.
No it should focus various minds on how few nuclear power stations we have.
I hope so. I've just taken a quick look and the offerings today seem to
be at least 25% up on the standing charges I currently pay and the unit
price has doubled!
Loading...