Discussion:
Damn I must get a new pc
(too old to reply)
Dave Baker
2014-02-21 10:01:43 UTC
Permalink
I've managed for years now with a 14 year old, 2000 year model Intel Pentium
733 mHz that refuses to die but is just too slow for the modern age. It
doesn't like playing H264 videos so I have to download Xvids or convert MP4s
to Xvid. However that takes ages. An hour or more to convert a 30 minute tv
program video file. I just looked its speed up on a cpu benchmark site.
Struth. It gets a speed of about 100 whereas even mid range modern pcs are
over 3000. A one hour file convert operation on this old thing would be 2
minutes or less on a modern pc and I wouldn't even need to do it in the
first place.

Oh but what a fucking pain moving all the files and programs to a new pc and
a new operating system. Days of work. Can I be arsed?
--
Dave Baker
Jethro_uk
2014-02-21 10:26:02 UTC
Permalink
Post by Dave Baker
I've managed for years now with a 14 year old, 2000 year model Intel
Pentium 733 mHz that refuses to die but is just too slow for the modern
age. It doesn't like playing H264 videos so I have to download Xvids or
convert MP4s to Xvid. However that takes ages. An hour or more to
convert a 30 minute tv program video file. I just looked its speed up on
a cpu benchmark site. Struth. It gets a speed of about 100 whereas even
mid range modern pcs are over 3000. A one hour file convert operation on
this old thing would be 2 minutes or less on a modern pc and I wouldn't
even need to do it in the first place.
Oh but what a fucking pain moving all the files and programs to a new pc
and a new operating system. Days of work. Can I be arsed?
Having acquired my home PCs over the years, I have long since learned to
keep data on external USB drives, and the OS on a small internal drive.
Upgrading for me is either swapping or cloning the OS drive, and
reattaching the external drive(s).

But that's Linux ...
Mentalguy2k8
2014-02-21 11:17:42 UTC
Permalink
Post by Jethro_uk
Having acquired my home PCs over the years, I have long since learned to
keep data on external USB drives, and the OS on a small internal drive.
Upgrading for me is either swapping or cloning the OS drive, and
reattaching the external drive(s).
Same here. Learned through (bitter) experience, always keep a folder on a
USB drive of all the original install files for the programs I use most, an
encrypted file of passwords, email account details etc., and a 2nd copy of
all "personal" files on the PC such as photos, music, important mails. I
suppose "the cloud" will become the USB external drive in the next few
years.

I try and work on the basis that if my PC or laptop becomes completely
unusable or stolen, I can carry on with 99% of what I had before.
Brian Gaff
2014-02-21 19:49:27 UTC
Permalink
The problem is that all windows software needs to be reinstalled, though a
surprising number can now be used portably I notice.

Yes keeping data anywhere is not the issue as its easy to copy, its the
programs that nono longer exist, or work and the change in interface etc
that really sucks. Its often worse for me as I have to configure them as
many do not work for the blind as out of the box.
Brian
--
From the Sofa of Brian Gaff Reply address is active
Post by Jethro_uk
Post by Dave Baker
I've managed for years now with a 14 year old, 2000 year model Intel
Pentium 733 mHz that refuses to die but is just too slow for the modern
age. It doesn't like playing H264 videos so I have to download Xvids or
convert MP4s to Xvid. However that takes ages. An hour or more to
convert a 30 minute tv program video file. I just looked its speed up on
a cpu benchmark site. Struth. It gets a speed of about 100 whereas even
mid range modern pcs are over 3000. A one hour file convert operation on
this old thing would be 2 minutes or less on a modern pc and I wouldn't
even need to do it in the first place.
Oh but what a fucking pain moving all the files and programs to a new pc
and a new operating system. Days of work. Can I be arsed?
Having acquired my home PCs over the years, I have long since learned to
keep data on external USB drives, and the OS on a small internal drive.
Upgrading for me is either swapping or cloning the OS drive, and
reattaching the external drive(s).
But that's Linux ...
polygonum
2014-02-21 21:33:40 UTC
Permalink
Post by Brian Gaff
Yes keeping data anywhere is not the issue as its easy to copy, its the
programs that nono longer exist, or work and the change in interface etc
that really sucks. Its often worse for me as I have to configure them as
many do not work for the blind as out of the box.
Brian
Wondering if you have tried the new Marks & Spencer website?

Aside from the phenomenally insulting "You are in a queue" message that
so many people got when trying to get onto the site, I immediately
thought it looked awful for anyone with vision issues.

Or is there a special version of the site for those who experience
difficulties? Haven't looked yet.


["Style & Living - Marks & Spencer
www.marksandspencer.com/s/style-and-living‎
Please bear with us. We are experiencing a higher than usual number of
customers. You're put in a queue. Please don't close this window. It
will refresh ..."]
--
Rod
David.WE.Roberts
2014-02-21 10:36:13 UTC
Permalink
Post by Dave Baker
I've managed for years now with a 14 year old, 2000 year model Intel
Pentium 733 mHz that refuses to die but is just too slow for the modern
age. It doesn't like playing H264 videos so I have to download Xvids or
convert MP4s to Xvid. However that takes ages. An hour or more to
convert a 30 minute tv program video file. I just looked its speed up on
a cpu benchmark site. Struth. It gets a speed of about 100 whereas even
mid range modern pcs are over 3000. A one hour file convert operation on
this old thing would be 2 minutes or less on a modern pc and I wouldn't
even need to do it in the first place.
Oh but what a fucking pain moving all the files and programs to a new pc
and a new operating system. Days of work. Can I be arsed?
Just put the old HDD in the new PC so that data is always available?

Not sure which programs you expect to move, but are you happy they will
run on a more modern OS?

More of a problem is likely to be any old hardware you have which needs
drivers.

Running your old OS (which is it?) in a VM on your new hardware might be
possible, but then again you might need drivers for some of the new
hardware bits?

Anyway, you will have to do it some time :-)

Cheers

Dave R
John Rumm
2014-02-21 13:16:12 UTC
Permalink
Post by David.WE.Roberts
Post by Dave Baker
I've managed for years now with a 14 year old, 2000 year model Intel
Pentium 733 mHz that refuses to die but is just too slow for the modern
age. It doesn't like playing H264 videos so I have to download Xvids or
convert MP4s to Xvid. However that takes ages. An hour or more to
convert a 30 minute tv program video file. I just looked its speed up on
a cpu benchmark site. Struth. It gets a speed of about 100 whereas even
mid range modern pcs are over 3000. A one hour file convert operation on
this old thing would be 2 minutes or less on a modern pc and I wouldn't
even need to do it in the first place.
Oh but what a fucking pain moving all the files and programs to a new pc
and a new operating system. Days of work. Can I be arsed?
Just put the old HDD in the new PC so that data is always available?
Not sure which programs you expect to move, but are you happy they will
run on a more modern OS?
More of a problem is likely to be any old hardware you have which needs
drivers.
If you go to the microsoft site and download the Win 7 or Win 8
compatibility checker and run it on your machine. It will identify the
hardware and software that might have problems with your chosen OS.
Post by David.WE.Roberts
Running your old OS (which is it?) in a VM on your new hardware might be
possible, but then again you might need drivers for some of the new
hardware bits?
There ought not be to much that can't be brought forward... old version
of MS office prior to 2002 can be difficult - but then any of the
compatible suites will replace those.
--
Cheers,

John.

/=================================================================\
| Internode Ltd - http://www.internode.co.uk |
|-----------------------------------------------------------------|
| John Rumm - john(at)internode(dot)co(dot)uk |
\=================================================================/
Martin Brown
2014-02-21 13:56:27 UTC
Permalink
Post by John Rumm
Post by David.WE.Roberts
Post by Dave Baker
I've managed for years now with a 14 year old, 2000 year model Intel
Pentium 733 mHz that refuses to die but is just too slow for the modern
age. It doesn't like playing H264 videos so I have to download Xvids or
convert MP4s to Xvid. However that takes ages.
[snip]
Post by John Rumm
Post by David.WE.Roberts
Post by Dave Baker
Oh but what a fucking pain moving all the files and programs to a new pc
and a new operating system. Days of work. Can I be arsed?
Just put the old HDD in the new PC so that data is always available?
But back it all up to a USB drive or external hard drive first.

I used to swap physical disks back in the days when new disks were not
so huge. These days I just put both on the network and copy over any
data I still want to have accessible on the newest machine. My oldest
Win98 machine is sulking at the moment I think its PSU has blown up.

I can't get rid because I do have a small number of exotic programs from
way back when that will only work on that or in raw DOS 6.xx. Mostly
EPROM programmers or ancient SCSI perhipherals of that era.
Post by John Rumm
Post by David.WE.Roberts
Not sure which programs you expect to move, but are you happy they will
run on a more modern OS?
A surprising number will although stuff that does direct peeky pokey IO
on printer ports for ancient legacy EPROM programmers are a PITA.
Post by John Rumm
Post by David.WE.Roberts
More of a problem is likely to be any old hardware you have which needs
drivers.
Especially HP they delight in not supporting Vista/Win7/Win8 on
excellent hardware of that vintage that would otherwise live forever.
You can usually find XP drivers for most of their old gear though.
Post by John Rumm
If you go to the microsoft site and download the Win 7 or Win 8
compatibility checker and run it on your machine. It will identify the
hardware and software that might have problems with your chosen OS.
On 15 year old hardware you have to be kidding!

There probably isn't enough memory installed to run the compatibility
checker and AV at the same time never mind install a modern OS.
Post by John Rumm
Post by David.WE.Roberts
Running your old OS (which is it?) in a VM on your new hardware might be
possible, but then again you might need drivers for some of the new
hardware bits?
There ought not be to much that can't be brought forward... old version
of MS office prior to 2002 can be difficult - but then any of the
compatible suites will replace those.
I thought only the versions of Office that demanded ET phone home
validation (and ET still there) were a bother for legacy installations.

I confess it isn't a problem that has ever bothered me.

The tricky question these days is to decide whether to just have a
tablet, portable or a desktop machine. I honestly think the days of the
home desktop/floor standing PC are now seriously numbered.

Dabs has a reasonable spec 15" portable for about £300 and really good
ones can be had for around the £500 mark. My last portable was bought in
a hurry from CeX of all places because mine died badly (hardware failure
of keyboard, mouse and USB). I needed one that afternoon and I knew they
had one at a local store that would do the job Samsung RX711.

I reckon all other things being equal you should change PC at least
every 6 years or when speed is 3x faster whichever happens first.
--
Regards,
Martin Brown
John Rumm
2014-02-21 16:28:33 UTC
Permalink
Post by Martin Brown
Post by John Rumm
Post by David.WE.Roberts
Post by Dave Baker
I've managed for years now with a 14 year old, 2000 year model Intel
Pentium 733 mHz that refuses to die but is just too slow for the modern
age. It doesn't like playing H264 videos so I have to download Xvids or
convert MP4s to Xvid. However that takes ages.
[snip]
Post by John Rumm
Post by David.WE.Roberts
Post by Dave Baker
Oh but what a fucking pain moving all the files and programs to a new pc
and a new operating system. Days of work. Can I be arsed?
Just put the old HDD in the new PC so that data is always available?
Especially HP they delight in not supporting Vista/Win7/Win8 on
excellent hardware of that vintage that would otherwise live forever.
You can usually find XP drivers for most of their old gear though.
Post by John Rumm
If you go to the microsoft site and download the Win 7 or Win 8
compatibility checker and run it on your machine. It will identify the
hardware and software that might have problems with your chosen OS.
On 15 year old hardware you have to be kidding!
The age of the hardware is not really that relevant.

To be fair I am assuming he is running at least Win XP SP2 or later...
If that is the case the the upgrade advisor will work ok:

Win 7 version

http://www.microsoft.com/en-us/download/details.aspx?id=20
Post by Martin Brown
There probably isn't enough memory installed to run the compatibility
checker and AV at the same time never mind install a modern OS.
I think you are missing my point. I was not suggesting that he install a
new OS on the old machine, simply use the upgrade adviser to identify
any applications and peripherals that he has that are not supported on
the new machine.
Post by Martin Brown
Post by John Rumm
Post by David.WE.Roberts
Running your old OS (which is it?) in a VM on your new hardware might be
possible, but then again you might need drivers for some of the new
hardware bits?
There ought not be to much that can't be brought forward... old version
of MS office prior to 2002 can be difficult - but then any of the
compatible suites will replace those.
I thought only the versions of Office that demanded ET phone home
validation (and ET still there) were a bother for legacy installations.
Version 2002 (aka Office XP) or older did not follow Microsoft's own
developers guidelines, and hence won't work properly on the more
restrictive security model of later OSes. Office 2003 can be made to
work (you need to run it the first time with admin privs until it has
activated etc). Later ones are ok without any further hoops to jump
through.

Keys can be recovered for old software with Magical Jelly Bean and
similar applications.
Post by Martin Brown
I confess it isn't a problem that has ever bothered me.
The tricky question these days is to decide whether to just have a
tablet, portable or a desktop machine. I honestly think the days of the
home desktop/floor standing PC are now seriously numbered.
For casual use at home you are probably right. For people involved in
originating content of any sort, I can't see them giving up more fully
featured machines yet.
Post by Martin Brown
Dabs has a reasonable spec 15" portable for about £300 and really good
ones can be had for around the £500 mark. My last portable was bought in
a hurry from CeX of all places because mine died badly (hardware failure
of keyboard, mouse and USB). I needed one that afternoon and I knew they
had one at a local store that would do the job Samsung RX711.
Laptops etc are fine if you are content with the small keyboards and
displays. {Personally I don't find them very comfortable to use, so
don't unless the situation requires it)
Post by Martin Brown
I reckon all other things being equal you should change PC at least
every 6 years or when speed is 3x faster whichever happens first.
Moore's law ought to make that every 4.5 years then ;-)
--
Cheers,

John.

/=================================================================\
| Internode Ltd - http://www.internode.co.uk |
|-----------------------------------------------------------------|
| John Rumm - john(at)internode(dot)co(dot)uk |
\=================================================================/
tony sayer
2014-02-21 22:38:42 UTC
Permalink
Post by Martin Brown
Post by John Rumm
There ought not be to much that can't be brought forward... old version
of MS office prior to 2002 can be difficult - but then any of the
compatible suites will replace those.
I thought only the versions of Office that demanded ET phone home
validation (and ET still there) were a bother for legacy installations.
Give Kingsoft free office a try, about the same as M$ orifice;!..

http://www.kingsoftstore.co.uk/
Post by Martin Brown
I confess it isn't a problem that has ever bothered me.
The tricky question these days is to decide whether to just have a
tablet, portable or a desktop machine. I honestly think the days of the
home desktop/floor standing PC are now seriously numbered.
Sod that!, much prefer the proper keyboard for my xxx size mitts and
decent controllable mouse and the nice large screen:)

And no batteries to run down.

CAT 5 cable connected no interfered with wireless etc;!...
--
Tony Sayer
soup
2014-02-22 08:00:34 UTC
Permalink
Post by Martin Brown
I honestly think the days of the
home desktop/floor standing PC are now seriously numbered.
As do I up to a point .

There is a need for 'desktops' as 'content creators' (say a tenth of
what are used now) whilst a tablet/netbook are all that is required in
90% of cases as most people consume content (Netflix, YouTube etc) or do
very minimal creation such as Facebook, Twitter etc.

So gone are the days of every second house having a desktop but they
are still required in some cases just no-where near the amount there is
now.
Dave Plowman (News)
2014-02-22 10:59:52 UTC
Permalink
Post by Martin Brown
The tricky question these days is to decide whether to just have a
tablet, portable or a desktop machine. I honestly think the days of the
home desktop/floor standing PC are now seriously numbered.
Depends on what you do, I suppose. I just love the 24" monitor on this one
and the proper keyboard and mouse. By the time you've added those to a
laptop you might as well still have a desktop. And keep the laptop etc for
where you really need a portable machine.
--
*Prepositions are not words to end sentences with *

Dave Plowman ***@davenoise.co.uk London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.
Chris J Dixon
2014-02-22 11:27:09 UTC
Permalink
Post by Dave Plowman (News)
Depends on what you do, I suppose. I just love the 24" monitor on this one
and the proper keyboard and mouse. By the time you've added those to a
laptop you might as well still have a desktop. And keep the laptop etc for
where you really need a portable machine.
Absolutely. And then once you have worked with twin screens for a
while (1), you really don't want to go back.

(1) A lot more practical nowadays than when I first did it with
CRTs

Chris
--
Chris J Dixon Nottingham UK
***@cdixon.me.uk

Plant amazing Acers.
Rod Speed
2014-02-22 16:57:45 UTC
Permalink
Post by Chris J Dixon
Post by Dave Plowman (News)
Depends on what you do, I suppose. I just love the 24" monitor on
this one and the proper keyboard and mouse. By the time you've
added those to a laptop you might as well still have a desktop.
And keep the laptop etc for where you really need a portable machine.
Absolutely. And then once you have worked with twin
screens for a while (1), you really don't want to go back.
Yeah, not argument there. And when the machine is also the
PVR, a desktop has a lot of advantages over a laptop too.
Post by Chris J Dixon
(1) A lot more practical nowadays than when I first did it with CRTs
Bill Wright
2014-02-23 04:15:54 UTC
Permalink
Post by Chris J Dixon
Post by Dave Plowman (News)
Depends on what you do, I suppose. I just love the 24" monitor on this one
and the proper keyboard and mouse. By the time you've added those to a
laptop you might as well still have a desktop. And keep the laptop etc for
where you really need a portable machine.
Absolutely. And then once you have worked with twin screens for a
while (1), you really don't want to go back.
When I use the laptop I feel I'm riding a bike. When I use my desktop
machines with twin screens I feel I'm back in the car.

When I use my phone for the internet or email I feel like I'm on foot
with a ball and chain.

Bill
Davey
2014-02-23 10:27:25 UTC
Permalink
On Sun, 23 Feb 2014 04:15:54 +0000
Post by Bill Wright
When I use my phone for the internet or email I feel like I'm on foot
with a ball and chain.
I use my 'phone as a 'phone. Only. That's what it's for, the PC is for
computing.
--
Davey.
Chris J Dixon
2014-02-23 10:47:42 UTC
Permalink
Post by Davey
On Sun, 23 Feb 2014 04:15:54 +0000
Post by Bill Wright
When I use my phone for the internet or email I feel like I'm on foot
with a ball and chain.
I use my 'phone as a 'phone. Only. That's what it's for, the PC is for
computing.
Indeed so, that's all my elderly phone will do. It is actually
far better at being a phone then the latest smart phones my
partner uses.

Chris
--
Chris J Dixon Nottingham UK
***@cdixon.me.uk

Plant amazing Acers.
Davey
2014-02-23 11:09:54 UTC
Permalink
On Sun, 23 Feb 2014 10:47:42 +0000
Post by Chris J Dixon
Post by Davey
On Sun, 23 Feb 2014 04:15:54 +0000
Post by Bill Wright
When I use my phone for the internet or email I feel like I'm on
foot with a ball and chain.
I use my 'phone as a 'phone. Only. That's what it's for, the PC is
for computing.
Indeed so, that's all my elderly phone will do. It is actually
far better at being a phone then the latest smart phones my
partner uses.
Chris
"Do one thing, and do it well". "Smart" does not necessarily mean more
useful.
Although I do occasionally wish mine had a camera function, but I can
live without it.
--
Davey.
tony sayer
2014-02-23 11:37:06 UTC
Permalink
Post by Chris J Dixon
Post by Davey
On Sun, 23 Feb 2014 04:15:54 +0000
Post by Bill Wright
When I use my phone for the internet or email I feel like I'm on foot
with a ball and chain.
I use my 'phone as a 'phone. Only. That's what it's for, the PC is for
computing.
Indeed so, that's all my elderly phone will do. It is actually
far better at being a phone then the latest smart phones my
partner uses.
Are any new "smartfones" any good at being a Telephone?.
Post by Chris J Dixon
Chris
--
Tony Sayer
The Medway Handyman
2014-02-23 13:14:20 UTC
Permalink
Post by tony sayer
Post by Chris J Dixon
Post by Davey
On Sun, 23 Feb 2014 04:15:54 +0000
Post by Bill Wright
When I use my phone for the internet or email I feel like I'm on foot
with a ball and chain.
I use my 'phone as a 'phone. Only. That's what it's for, the PC is for
computing.
Indeed so, that's all my elderly phone will do. It is actually
far better at being a phone then the latest smart phones my
partner uses.
Are any new "smartfones" any good at being a Telephone?.
Post by Chris J Dixon
Chris
I love my smartphone, don't think I could now live without it.
Built in sat nav, local maps, search for local suppliers, internet
connection, decent camera - and it makes phone calls :-)
--
Dave - The Medway Handyman www.medwayhandyman.co.uk
chris French
2014-02-23 22:54:34 UTC
Permalink
Post by The Medway Handyman
Post by tony sayer
Post by Chris J Dixon
Post by Davey
On Sun, 23 Feb 2014 04:15:54 +0000
Post by Bill Wright
When I use my phone for the internet or email I feel like I'm on foot
with a ball and chain.
I use my 'phone as a 'phone. Only. That's what it's for, the PC is for
computing.
Indeed so, that's all my elderly phone will do. It is actually
far better at being a phone then the latest smart phones my
partner uses.
Are any new "smartfones" any good at being a Telephone?.
Post by Chris J Dixon
Chris
I love my smartphone, don't think I could now live without it.
Built in sat nav, local maps, search for local suppliers, internet
connection, decent camera - and it makes phone calls :-)
Indeed, I use mine loads I do use it for phone calls, though more are
made at home than out and about - using the inclusive minutes rather
than pay for landline calls. It's fine a as phone (dials numbers, I can
talk to them). But other functions are more probably as, if not more
important for me.

Whilst in theory I like the desktop with it's nice big monitor (I'm
there right now as it happens) in reality I'm more likely to use the
laptop cos I can sit on the sofa, or at the kitchen table or whatever. I
only really use the desktop nowadays when I really want the benefits -
processing lots of photos, fiddling with video, typing lots in a more
comfy position.
--
Chris French
Huge
2014-02-23 17:41:45 UTC
Permalink
Post by tony sayer
Post by Chris J Dixon
Post by Davey
On Sun, 23 Feb 2014 04:15:54 +0000
Post by Bill Wright
When I use my phone for the internet or email I feel like I'm on foot
with a ball and chain.
I use my 'phone as a 'phone. Only. That's what it's for, the PC is for
computing.
Indeed so, that's all my elderly phone will do. It is actually
far better at being a phone then the latest smart phones my
partner uses.
Are any new "smartfones" any good at being a Telephone?.
Blackberry Z10. Can't recommend it highly enough.
--
Today is Prickle-Prickle, the 54th day of Chaos in the YOLD 3180
"Mistake Not My Current State Of Joshing Gentle Peevishness For The
Awesome And Terrible Majesty Of The Towering Seas Of Ire That Are
Themselves The Milquetoast Shallows Fringing My Vast Oceans Of Wrath"
Vir Campestris
2014-02-23 22:44:25 UTC
Permalink
Post by Huge
Post by tony sayer
Are any new "smartfones" any good at being a Telephone?.
Blackberry Z10. Can't recommend it highly enough.
How often do you have to charge it?


(my "dumb phone" - most months...)

Andy
chris French
2014-02-23 23:12:20 UTC
Permalink
Post by Vir Campestris
Post by Huge
Post by tony sayer
Are any new "smartfones" any good at being a Telephone?.
Blackberry Z10. Can't recommend it highly enough.
How often do you have to charge it?
I charge my smartphone most days
Post by Vir Campestris
(my "dumb phone" - most months...)
Personally, I'd rather have a device that is more useful to me. some
days I make or receive no phone calls at all, but I use other functions
everyday.

(And yes, these is a pointless argument, people should use whatever
suits them best, but I really would have thought we had moved on from
the "a phone should make phonecalls" type of statements)
--
Chris French
Huge
2014-02-23 23:26:45 UTC
Permalink
Post by Vir Campestris
Post by Huge
Post by tony sayer
Are any new "smartfones" any good at being a Telephone?.
Blackberry Z10. Can't recommend it highly enough.
How often do you have to charge it?
Depends what I use it for. If I remember to switch off the WiFi and I
don't spend hours listening to music on it, every 2 or 3 days. Otherwise,
every day.
--
Today is Prickle-Prickle, the 54th day of Chaos in the YOLD 3180
"Mistake Not My Current State Of Joshing Gentle Peevishness For The
Awesome And Terrible Majesty Of The Towering Seas Of Ire That Are
Themselves The Milquetoast Shallows Fringing My Vast Oceans Of Wrath"
Weatherlawyer
2014-02-22 11:31:54 UTC
Permalink
Post by David.WE.Roberts
14 year old, Intel Pentium III I have to download Xvids or
convert MP4s to Xvid. However that takes ages.
Oh but what a pain moving all the files and programs to a new pc
and a new operating system. Days of work.
Just put the old HDD in the new PC so that data is always available?
Not sure which programs you expect to move, but are you happy they will
run on a more modern OS?
Running your old OS (which is it?) in a VM on your new hardware might be
possible, but then again you might need drivers for some of the new
hardware bits.
Put a modern Linux OS on a partition. That will find the stuff you want. Save it to a modern flash drive get one larger than your files they are very cheap these days and you can just plug that in whatever computer you use.

Buy a new computer with as much RAM as you can afford as it is going to be used for video so get one with a suitable video card, though you probably won't need one -but it would be an idea once you have maxed-out on the RAM.

I presume you will want Windows. It does do video better than Linux because the hardware manufacturers are in bed with Microsoft. You'll get Windows with the machine anyway.

Put a popular Linux OS on it as well and use that exclusively for surfing online, then you will save yourself hours and hours not bothering about security and updates.

Use those saved 2 to 4 hours every week to copy your files. You should be able to transfer a lot of stuff with a modern Linux OS provided you get advice about the most suitable version.

What you could do is look on your local Freecycle for someone throwing away a perfectly good computer running XP or Vista, get some RAM for that if you can and put your old hard drive in that. It will make copying a comparative pleasure. Again I'd put a Linux version on that, Ubuntu 10 if you can find it.

Ubuntu 10 or 10.1 will have all the drivers for that machine and you won't have to bother about internet software; it will sort that at install.

You probably won't be able to swap the hard drive from that to the new machine you ought to buy as the data ribbon with be completely different. But you might be so happy with a P4 running Ubuntu, that you won't shift from there for years.

In which case, you won't even have to shell out on a USB drive, you tight wad.
Huge
2014-02-21 10:59:18 UTC
Permalink
Post by Dave Baker
Oh but what a fucking pain moving all the files and programs to a new pc and
a new operating system. Days of work. Can I be arsed?
*grin* Welcome to my world. I'm just setting up to move from Ubuntu 10.04 to
12.04. (Mostly because, increasingly, the latest versions of applications
will not run because their dependent libraries are too old.) The first
step was to move all my data onto a separate disk from the O/S so I can
upgrade the O/S by itself. That's now done and working fine. So, what
next?

Oh, the pain. Sigh.
--
Today is Boomtime, the 52nd day of Chaos in the YOLD 3180
"Mistake Not My Current State Of Joshing Gentle Peevishness For The
Awesome And Terrible Majesty Of The Towering Seas Of Ire That Are
Themselves The Milquetoast Shallows Fringing My Vast Oceans Of Wrath"
Davey
2014-02-21 11:07:36 UTC
Permalink
On 21 Feb 2014 10:59:18 GMT
Post by Huge
Post by Dave Baker
Oh but what a fucking pain moving all the files and programs to a
new pc and a new operating system. Days of work. Can I be arsed?
*grin* Welcome to my world. I'm just setting up to move from Ubuntu
10.04 to 12.04. (Mostly because, increasingly, the latest versions of
applications will not run because their dependent libraries are too
old.) The first step was to move all my data onto a separate disk
from the O/S so I can upgrade the O/S by itself. That's now done and
working fine. So, what next?
Oh, the pain. Sigh.
Your experience may differ, and others here may have words of wisdom
for you, but in my case, that upgrade (in fact a fresh install) resulted
in a few problems. I needed to do it for the same reason as you.
Now, every time I boot, I get a couple of Error messages, both of which
are known bugs, and now I just Cancel them and move on; but they are
not fixable, they are just there, for ever, as far as I can see. The
other problem is that my laptop's Broadcomm Wireless card and 12.04LTS
have a problem with communicating, in that the correct drivers won't
activate. Another known bug, with no definitive and workable solution.
So I now need to use Win7 if I want to use WiFi. Oh well, but beware of
the change from 10.04 to 12.04.
--
Davey.
Alan Braggins
2014-02-21 11:53:21 UTC
Permalink
Post by Huge
Post by Dave Baker
Oh but what a fucking pain moving all the files and programs to a new pc and
a new operating system. Days of work. Can I be arsed?
*grin* Welcome to my world. I'm just setting up to move from Ubuntu 10.04 to
12.04. (Mostly because, increasingly, the latest versions of applications
will not run because their dependent libraries are too old.) The first
step was to move all my data onto a separate disk from the O/S so I can
upgrade the O/S by itself. That's now done and working fine. So, what
next?
Type "sudo do-release-upgrade". Terrible, isn't it :-).

(Yeah, I know it doesn't always work first time for everyone. I've only
done it on machines where everything was backed up elsewhere anyway and
a clean re-install (or creation of a replacement VM) wouldn't have lost
anything that mattered.)

Currently wondering whether the replacement for my aging Windows XP machine
will be a newer Windows machine, or a Linux machine with a Windows VM.
Huge
2014-02-21 16:27:32 UTC
Permalink
Post by Alan Braggins
Post by Huge
Post by Dave Baker
Oh but what a fucking pain moving all the files and programs to a new pc and
a new operating system. Days of work. Can I be arsed?
*grin* Welcome to my world. I'm just setting up to move from Ubuntu 10.04 to
12.04. (Mostly because, increasingly, the latest versions of applications
will not run because their dependent libraries are too old.) The first
step was to move all my data onto a separate disk from the O/S so I can
upgrade the O/S by itself. That's now done and working fine. So, what
next?
Type "sudo do-release-upgrade". Terrible, isn't it :-).
I've been doing this ***@p long enough (*) to have very little faith in
"upgrades in place". :o)

Besides, it's a chance to delete all the rubbish I'd forgotten about.

(* If "this ***@p" is taken to mean "'playing' with Unix and Unix-like
systems", since about 1984.)
Post by Alan Braggins
Currently wondering whether the replacement for my aging Windows XP machine
will be a newer Windows machine, or a Linux machine with a Windows VM.
FWIW, I've had terrible trouble running Win7 in VirtualBox, to the extent
I've given up. But I'd never go back to Windows as a main system.
--
Today is Boomtime, the 52nd day of Chaos in the YOLD 3180
"Mistake Not My Current State Of Joshing Gentle Peevishness For The
Awesome And Terrible Majesty Of The Towering Seas Of Ire That Are
Themselves The Milquetoast Shallows Fringing My Vast Oceans Of Wrath"
The Natural Philosopher
2014-02-21 11:57:38 UTC
Permalink
Post by Huge
Post by Dave Baker
Oh but what a fucking pain moving all the files and programs to a new pc and
a new operating system. Days of work. Can I be arsed?
*grin* Welcome to my world. I'm just setting up to move from Ubuntu 10.04 to
12.04. (Mostly because, increasingly, the latest versions of applications
will not run because their dependent libraries are too old.) The first
step was to move all my data onto a separate disk from the O/S so I can
upgrade the O/S by itself. That's now done and working fine. So, what
next?
Oh, the pain. Sigh.
Last time I did an upgrade, due to the fact that everything is indeed
backed up all the time, it took less than a day to get up and running -
yea even unto simply copying the old windows VM back to the new machine
and telling virtual box to use it.

Of course it was a great opportunity to not copy a lot of stuff back.

I left it for 6 month or so on the basis that if it was needed, I had
it, and if in 6 months it wasn't, then a good time to delete it anyway.
--
Ineptocracy

(in-ep-toc’-ra-cy) – a system of government where the least capable to
lead are elected by the least capable of producing, and where the
members of society least likely to sustain themselves or succeed, are
rewarded with goods and services paid for by the confiscated wealth of a
diminishing number of producers.
Vir Campestris
2014-02-21 22:47:05 UTC
Permalink
*grin* Welcome to my world. I'm just setting up to move from Ubuntu 10.04 to
12.04. (Mostly because, increasingly, the latest versions of applications
will not run because their dependent libraries are too old.) The first
step was to move all my data onto a separate disk from the O/S so I can
upgrade the O/S by itself. That's now done and working fine. So, what
next?
Oh, the pain. Sigh.
<fx looks up at Jethro's post>

So it's just as bad. I thought so. Certainly the impression I've gained
from 6 months of using Linux professionally for the first time.

BTW I upgraded my machine with new HW, Win7 not XP, and an SSD. The old
OS disc is still bootable - but is now a secondary to the SSD.

Andy
m***@care2.com
2014-02-22 09:33:23 UTC
Permalink
Post by Vir Campestris
BTW I upgraded my machine with new HW, Win7 not XP, and an SSD. The old
OS disc is still bootable - but is now a secondary to the SSD.
Andy
An SSD is a great performance booster, but they have major file corruption problems, so are best only used for the OS. Read up about that first.


NT
Tim Watts
2014-02-22 10:23:42 UTC
Permalink
Post by m***@care2.com
Post by Vir Campestris
BTW I upgraded my machine with new HW, Win7 not XP, and an SSD. The old
OS disc is still bootable - but is now a secondary to the SSD.
Andy
An SSD is a great performance booster, but they have major file corruption problems, so are best only used for the OS. Read up about that first.
If you buy a crap one (like I did first time around).

However, a decent one such as the SanDisk SDSSDXP1 and SanDisk SDSSDXP2
(I have one in my server and one in my laptop) have both been faultless
for >6 months.

They also (unlike a lot of others) sport a SMART wear indicator that
gives a graceful warning if they are approaching expiry (in terms of
block erase cycles).

Highly recommended.

Tim
m***@care2.com
2014-02-22 19:36:53 UTC
Permalink
Post by Tim Watts
Post by m***@care2.com
Post by Vir Campestris
BTW I upgraded my machine with new HW, Win7 not XP, and an SSD. The old
OS disc is still bootable - but is now a secondary to the SSD.
Andy
An SSD is a great performance booster, but they have major file corruption problems, so are best only used for the OS. Read up about that first.
If you buy a crap one (like I did first time around).
However, a decent one such as the SanDisk SDSSDXP1 and SanDisk SDSSDXP2
(I have one in my server and one in my laptop) have both been faultless
for >6 months.
They also (unlike a lot of others) sport a SMART wear indicator that
gives a graceful warning if they are approaching expiry (in terms of
block erase cycles).
Highly recommended.
Tim
IIRC Sandisk failed the tests, as did all brands but intel. The problem is if power goes off during a write, massive corruption is liable to result.


NT
The Natural Philosopher
2014-02-23 04:11:54 UTC
Permalink
Post by m***@care2.com
Post by Tim Watts
Post by m***@care2.com
Post by Vir Campestris
BTW I upgraded my machine with new HW, Win7 not XP, and an SSD. The old
OS disc is still bootable - but is now a secondary to the SSD.
Andy
An SSD is a great performance booster, but they have major file corruption problems, so are best only used for the OS. Read up about that first.
If you buy a crap one (like I did first time around).
However, a decent one such as the SanDisk SDSSDXP1 and SanDisk SDSSDXP2
(I have one in my server and one in my laptop) have both been faultless
for >6 months.
They also (unlike a lot of others) sport a SMART wear indicator that
gives a graceful warning if they are approaching expiry (in terms of
block erase cycles).
Highly recommended.
Tim
IIRC Sandisk failed the tests, as did all brands but intel. The problem is if power goes off during a write, massive corruption is liable to result.
To be fair that's the case with any disk

Its just that some NVRAM has bigger 'sectors'
Post by m***@care2.com
NT
--
Ineptocracy

(in-ep-toc’-ra-cy) – a system of government where the least capable to
lead are elected by the least capable of producing, and where the
members of society least likely to sustain themselves or succeed, are
rewarded with goods and services paid for by the confiscated wealth of a
diminishing number of producers.
Andy Burns
2014-02-23 07:13:10 UTC
Permalink
Post by m***@care2.com
IIRC Sandisk failed the tests, as did all brands but intel. The
problem is if power goes off during a write, massive corruption is
liable to result.
I've not looked for 2-3 years, but some SSD drives have an
ultra-capacitor which provides juice long enough for the controller to
flush the write buffers.
Johny B Good
2014-02-23 23:19:31 UTC
Permalink
On Sun, 23 Feb 2014 07:13:10 +0000, Andy Burns
Post by Andy Burns
Post by m***@care2.com
IIRC Sandisk failed the tests, as did all brands but intel. The
problem is if power goes off during a write, massive corruption is
liable to result.
I've not looked for 2-3 years, but some SSD drives have an
ultra-capacitor which provides juice long enough for the controller to
flush the write buffers.
This was discussed, oh, about 6 months back in uk.comp.homebuilt when
I posted about what appeared to be a power down corruption issue under
win2k.

At the time (and after researching the issue of power down behaviour
of SSDs), I was quite convinced it was an issue with the Kingston 30GB
SSD I was using at the time. Now, I'm not so sure about this
hypothesis.

Several things have given me cause to suspect otherwise:

1/ I still kept seeing the dreaded BLACK screen message "Licence
Violation..." error message (corrupted registry being the cause of
this 'odd' error message) around one in every thirty cold boots, even
after upgrading to an Intel 180GB SSD, requiring a restore from the
latest image backup of the C volume (a 10GB partition space with only
about 1.5GB in use, hence a 5 minute restore operation).

2/ Despite powering the drive from the 5VSB rail (and switching the
mains off several minutes after a shutdown), I still saw the same
problem. I didn't bother leaving the 5VSB permanently on which may or
may not have made a difference.

3/ I suddenly started to experience the dreaded BlkSOD on restarts
required to complete Avast's program update _without_ any power
cycling involved. Eventually, the only way I could go forward on this
update was to uninstall Avast completely and re-install using the then
latest version it had been trying to update to. The next update after
that, unconscionably, is no longer win2k compatable so I have the
program updates set to 'manual only'.

4/ I can't recall when I last saw a BlkSOD but I think it must be well
over two months ago which is a 'record' period between image restores
over the past 3 years that I've been 'experiencing' the problem. It
might even be a whole 3 months - looking at the 'comments' in the last
3 or 4 image backups suggests they were made in anticipation rather
than as a result of playing 'catch up' after a recent BlkSOD induced
restore.

As a result, I'm beginning to think the problem may have been due to
a driver issue, aggravated by Avast's behaviour during shutdowns,
rather than an SSD power down corruption issue per se.

Getting back to the use of super caps, most consumer grade SSDs are
'Skinny designs' intended to obviate reliance on super caps meaning,
not a super cap in sight.

A year last November, I radically upgraded my brother's win2k box
using an Adata S511 120GB SSD (along with MoBo and the rest) with a
fresh install of winXP Pro to replace the win2k which was becoming too
problematic with the more current application software he needed to
install.

Strangely, this SSD lacks the SMART parameter known as "Unsafe
Shutdown" count. It's either an oversight or simply not considered
important enough to warrant logging such 'events'.

The upgraded box has never produced any hint of SSD power down
corruption over the past 15 months of its operation which is good news
for those of us thinking of using an SSD with a Non SSD Aware OS such
as msdos, win3.11, win9x and win2k since winXP is as feckin' clueless
about SSDs as win2k and all the rest[1].

It's quite true that SSDs with their 64KB to 1MB erase blocks offer a
lot more potential to scramble the contents of a random selection of
sectors making not just the 'open files' vulnerable to corruption but
entirely innocent files as well.

Whilst an HDD can lose a 64MB buffer's worth of data during a power
outage, it's usually limited to the last opened file or three which is
infinitely predictable behaviour compared to that of an SSD.

There is an extra risk but it seems to be vanishingly small compared
to my own experience if the responses to my original posting were
anything to go by (plus my research to find other similar reports of
SSD power down induced corruption - which seemed to be a pitiful few
cases with winXP and none in the case of win2k).

[1] An SSD aware OS is _supposed_ to issue a "Standby_Immediate"
command to all SSDs a second or so before disasserting the Power_On
signal to the PSU to 'switch off' the PC.

Apparently, not even win8 always issues such a command which forces
the SSD to flush all outstanding writes to the nand cells prior to
going into standby making it safe to power down.
--
Regards, J B Good
The Natural Philosopher
2014-02-24 08:14:40 UTC
Permalink
Post by Johny B Good
I still kept seeing the dreaded BLACK screen message "Licence
Violation..." error message (corrupted registry being the cause of
this 'odd' error message) around one in every thirty cold boots,
If its inconsistent its 99% hardware and I would suspect RAM

boot memtest.exe and let it run..
--
Ineptocracy

(in-ep-toc’-ra-cy) – a system of government where the least capable to
lead are elected by the least capable of producing, and where the
members of society least likely to sustain themselves or succeed, are
rewarded with goods and services paid for by the confiscated wealth of a
diminishing number of producers.
Johny B Good
2014-02-24 19:27:35 UTC
Permalink
On Mon, 24 Feb 2014 08:14:40 +0000, The Natural Philosopher
Post by The Natural Philosopher
Post by Johny B Good
I still kept seeing the dreaded BLACK screen message "Licence
Violation..." error message (corrupted registry being the cause of
this 'odd' error message) around one in every thirty cold boots,
If its inconsistent its 99% hardware and I would suspect RAM
boot memtest.exe and let it run..
If it were a ram issue, I'd expect a damn sight worse symptom than
the occasional BkSOD (things like random crashes/freezes and stress
testing errors). I didn't and don't see any such 'classic ram errors'
so see no need to repeat the memtest86 test that I ran when I first
assembled the current upgrade.

This _does_ look like a hardware issue (notably the SSD rather than
ram) but I now suspect it's more likely to be a driver issue involving
NCQ support. Having said that, it seems, for the moment, to have
settled down. Who knows? It might actually have been some unfortunate
interference by Avast during a full shutdown with the earlier versions
of that AV.

It does seem rather improbable but I might as well consider _any_
possible cause since my original suspect (the SSD and power down
induced data loss) looks less and less likely to be the primary cause.
This leaves me to consider that it could be almost anything imaginable
as a causal factor in this thorny problem.

The only upside is that I made damn sure that no amount of hardware
faults, not even this one, would become a "Show Stopper" by making
image back ups of the boot partition as a matter of routine long
before the current build. I just didn't expect to be relying on such
backups more than once or twice a year. :-(
--
Regards, J B Good
Vir Campestris
2014-02-23 21:57:51 UTC
Permalink
Post by m***@care2.com
An SSD is a great performance booster, but they have major file corruption problems, so are best only used for the OS. Read up about that first.
I did. And chose carefully.

Anyway I keep backups. I'd lose my newsgroup history, but that's about it.

Andy
Huge
2014-02-22 15:40:51 UTC
Permalink
Post by Vir Campestris
*grin* Welcome to my world. I'm just setting up to move from Ubuntu 10.04 to
12.04. (Mostly because, increasingly, the latest versions of applications
will not run because their dependent libraries are too old.) The first
step was to move all my data onto a separate disk from the O/S so I can
upgrade the O/S by itself. That's now done and working fine. So, what
next?
Oh, the pain. Sigh.
<fx looks up at Jethro's post>
So it's just as bad. I thought so. Certainly the impression I've gained
from 6 months of using Linux professionally for the first time.
W-e-e-e-e-e-e-llll. I *have* been running this Linux for 4 years without
upgrading and probably could keep going for some time, but I have a specific
requirement for some recent software which whinges about out of date
libraries.
--
Today is Pungenday, the 53rd day of Chaos in the YOLD 3180
"Mistake Not My Current State Of Joshing Gentle Peevishness For The
Awesome And Terrible Majesty Of The Towering Seas Of Ire That Are
Themselves The Milquetoast Shallows Fringing My Vast Oceans Of Wrath"
The Natural Philosopher
2014-02-23 04:10:59 UTC
Permalink
Post by Huge
Post by Vir Campestris
*grin* Welcome to my world. I'm just setting up to move from Ubuntu 10.04 to
12.04. (Mostly because, increasingly, the latest versions of applications
will not run because their dependent libraries are too old.) The first
step was to move all my data onto a separate disk from the O/S so I can
upgrade the O/S by itself. That's now done and working fine. So, what
next?
Oh, the pain. Sigh.
<fx looks up at Jethro's post>
So it's just as bad. I thought so. Certainly the impression I've gained
from 6 months of using Linux professionally for the first time.
W-e-e-e-e-e-e-llll. I *have* been running this Linux for 4 years without
upgrading and probably could keep going for some time, but I have a specific
requirement for some recent software which whinges about out of date
libraries.
And in that its no different - in fact its worse - on say MAC OSX or
Windows.

Wife runs a G5 power PC. Not Intel. Because old programs that cost a LOT
of money are on it.

Guess what cant get latest firefox for it, safari is bug ridden and
there is no way to upgrade it beyond leopard.


And sites that ONLY WORK on latest browsers don't work..Its stuck with
an ages old version of word, because newer versions don't run on power PC.

Got a new printer 'mac compatible'

Was it F***k

Drivers said 'upgrade to later OS or f*** off'.

Got it working with free code. Its now running libre office as well.

Got old hardware? latest windows wont support it. Got New hardware?>
wont run on older windows.

Linux has support for floppy disks still..

The point is that maintaining backwards compatibility is hell for any
OS, but its *better* with linux than anything else.

You don't have to buy new hardware and anew licensed copy of
windows/OS-X every couple of years to keep up with the new .docx format.

Microsoft and Mac want you to buy new kit, Linux doesn't., its kept on
supporting old kit because the codes been written and wont be REMOVED
any time soon.

I've got drivers for a 10 year plus old Nvidia GPU that works perfectly
well.

Yes, it takes about 2 years for linux to catch up with the latest
bleeding edge hardware, but so what? don't buy bleeding edge hardware.

Upgrading the distro is something you do once a year once every 2 years
once every 5 years. Whatever. Driven by the need to get access to new
software that will only run on later libraries.

Or the need to get better hardware going.

It's not hard to upgrade. Hive off the home directory somewhere, and any
other useful stuff in /var or /etc. wipe and do a clean reinstall, copy
home dir back and chances are everything will just 'work'

Heck its often possible to upgrade without backing up. For minor
releases anyway.

And the final thing is that the support IS THERE.

I've cut and pasted stuff on the web more than once straight into the
command line and 'fixed' some issue.

Impossible to find any support for Macs. Even Apples own support pages
for 10.4 have been removed.

And the usual advice for Windows is 'reinstall'

Nope. Give me linux.
--
Ineptocracy

(in-ep-toc’-ra-cy) – a system of government where the least capable to
lead are elected by the least capable of producing, and where the
members of society least likely to sustain themselves or succeed, are
rewarded with goods and services paid for by the confiscated wealth of a
diminishing number of producers.
Tim Streater
2014-02-23 09:10:09 UTC
Permalink
Post by The Natural Philosopher
Linux has support for floppy disks still..
As does my Mac running latest OS X.
--
Tim

"That excessive bail ought not to be required, nor excessive fines imposed,
nor cruel and unusual punishments inflicted" -- Bill of Rights 1689
John Rumm
2014-02-23 21:17:16 UTC
Permalink
Post by Tim Streater
Post by The Natural Philosopher
Linux has support for floppy disks still..
As does my Mac running latest OS X.
So does Win 8.1... still does not make em much use though!
--
Cheers,

John.

/=================================================================\
| Internode Ltd - http://www.internode.co.uk |
|-----------------------------------------------------------------|
| John Rumm - john(at)internode(dot)co(dot)uk |
\=================================================================/
Tim Watts
2014-02-23 09:32:15 UTC
Permalink
Post by The Natural Philosopher
Wife runs a G5 power PC. Not Intel. Because old programs that cost a LOT
of money are on it.
Guess what cant get latest firefox for it, safari is bug ridden and
there is no way to upgrade it beyond leopard.
I have concluded that Apple are bastards.

I have a 4.5 year old iPhone that still works perfectly as a piece of
hardware.

However it is effectively dead as almost no apps are installable and the
App Store is too stupid to either offer older compatible versions or at
least just show me the apps that ARE installable.

After a lot of click, OK, ERROR I got fed up...
Huge
2014-02-23 09:37:16 UTC
Permalink
Post by Tim Watts
Post by The Natural Philosopher
Wife runs a G5 power PC. Not Intel. Because old programs that cost a LOT
of money are on it.
Guess what cant get latest firefox for it, safari is bug ridden and
there is no way to upgrade it beyond leopard.
I have concluded that Apple are bastards.
Took you a while. :o)
--
Today is Prickle-Prickle, the 54th day of Chaos in the YOLD 3180
"Mistake Not My Current State Of Joshing Gentle Peevishness For The
Awesome And Terrible Majesty Of The Towering Seas Of Ire That Are
Themselves The Milquetoast Shallows Fringing My Vast Oceans Of Wrath"
Tim Watts
2014-02-23 10:02:48 UTC
Permalink
Post by Huge
Post by Tim Watts
Post by The Natural Philosopher
Wife runs a G5 power PC. Not Intel. Because old programs that cost a LOT
of money are on it.
Guess what cant get latest firefox for it, safari is bug ridden and
there is no way to upgrade it beyond leopard.
I have concluded that Apple are bastards.
Took you a while. :o)
I always knew, in my heart.

Now I have material evidence to slap the next fan-boi in the face with :)
dennis@home
2014-02-23 12:22:31 UTC
Permalink
Post by The Natural Philosopher
Post by Huge
Post by Vir Campestris
*grin* Welcome to my world. I'm just setting up to move from Ubuntu 10.04 to
12.04. (Mostly because, increasingly, the latest versions of applications
will not run because their dependent libraries are too old.) The first
step was to move all my data onto a separate disk from the O/S so I can
upgrade the O/S by itself. That's now done and working fine. So, what
next?
Oh, the pain. Sigh.
<fx looks up at Jethro's post>
So it's just as bad. I thought so. Certainly the impression I've gained
from 6 months of using Linux professionally for the first time.
W-e-e-e-e-e-e-llll. I *have* been running this Linux for 4 years without
upgrading and probably could keep going for some time, but I have a specific
requirement for some recent software which whinges about out of date
libraries.
And in that its no different - in fact its worse - on say MAC OSX or
Windows.
Wife runs a G5 power PC. Not Intel. Because old programs that cost a LOT
of money are on it.
Guess what cant get latest firefox for it, safari is bug ridden and
there is no way to upgrade it beyond leopard.
And sites that ONLY WORK on latest browsers don't work..Its stuck with
an ages old version of word, because newer versions don't run on power PC.
Got a new printer 'mac compatible'
Was it F***k
Drivers said 'upgrade to later OS or f*** off'.
What do you expect, MACs are designed to go obsolete every few years.
Post by The Natural Philosopher
Got it working with free code. Its now running libre office as well.
Got old hardware? latest windows wont support it. Got New hardware?>
wont run on older windows.
You would have to have odd hardware for a new version of windows not to
support it out of the box.
Post by The Natural Philosopher
Linux has support for floppy disks still..
So does windows.
Apart from transferring files to old synths what does anyone use them for?
Post by The Natural Philosopher
The point is that maintaining backwards compatibility is hell for any
OS, but its *better* with linux than anything else.
Its better if you know how to find old source code and know how to
compile it in.
A lot of the older stuff never had drivers in the first place.
You tended to only get linux drivers for hardware someone that knows how
to write drivers for actually wanted to use. I suppose there may be a
bit more support from manufacturers know but I doubt it.
Post by The Natural Philosopher
You don't have to buy new hardware and anew licensed copy of
windows/OS-X every couple of years to keep up with the new .docx format.
You never need a new windows to keep up with docx format, its a word
format and you don't even need a new version of that to use them.
Post by The Natural Philosopher
Microsoft and Mac want you to buy new kit, Linux doesn't., its kept on
supporting old kit because the codes been written and wont be REMOVED
any time soon.
Microsoft wants you to buy software, they only started making PCs last
years.

Apple want you to buy new kit and are very good at convincing the
punters they need it.
Post by The Natural Philosopher
I've got drivers for a 10 year plus old Nvidia GPU that works perfectly
well.
They work with win8 out of the box, were they in the distro you use?
Post by The Natural Philosopher
Yes, it takes about 2 years for linux to catch up with the latest
bleeding edge hardware, but so what? don't buy bleeding edge hardware.
Upgrading the distro is something you do once a year once every 2 years
once every 5 years. Whatever. Driven by the need to get access to new
software that will only run on later libraries.
Or the need to get better hardware going.
With windows you just fit the better hardware and let windows sort out
the drivers unless its really bleeding edge where you might need the CD
that comes with the hardware.

With Apple you look at the windows hardware and wonder why the same
thing costs twice as much.
Post by The Natural Philosopher
It's not hard to upgrade. Hive off the home directory somewhere, and any
other useful stuff in /var or /etc. wipe and do a clean reinstall, copy
home dir back and chances are everything will just 'work'
Heck its often possible to upgrade without backing up. For minor
releases anyway.
And the final thing is that the support IS THERE.
I've cut and pasted stuff on the web more than once straight into the
command line and 'fixed' some issue.
Impossible to find any support for Macs. Even Apples own support pages
for 10.4 have been removed.
And the usual advice for Windows is 'reinstall'
Well that's the linux junkies advice.
Windows you let it run the repair wizard and it will fix itself 95% of
the time.
System rollback will fix 99%.
Google will fix 99.9%.

If you have really screwed it then you use the backup image windows
keeps reminding you to make to fix it.
Post by The Natural Philosopher
Nope. Give me linux.
They have, they give it to anyone, most people don't want it.
Capitol
2014-02-23 12:36:26 UTC
Permalink
Post by ***@home
They have, they give it to anyone, most people don't want it.
However, this morning she noticed that Windows Outlook doesn't put up
the senders email address. I then found out after 10 minutes Googling
that this is a design feature which has been around for 10 years and is
not adjustable without adding config files to the OS. (or playing around
with multiple key presses.) There seems to be some indication, that
later Outlook versions can do this. iOS does this, as does SeaMonkey and
Thunderbird. I believe Opera also works this way. My Linux system can do
this without problems. So, being a popular OS does not demonstrate even
being adequate in this case.
Tim Streater
2014-02-23 13:25:17 UTC
Permalink
Post by Capitol
Post by ***@home
They have, they give it to anyone, most people don't want it.
However, this morning she noticed that Windows Outlook doesn't put up
the senders email address. I then found out after 10 minutes Googling
that this is a design feature which has been around for 10 years and is
not adjustable without adding config files to the OS. (or playing around
with multiple key presses.) There seems to be some indication, that
later Outlook versions can do this. iOS does this, as does SeaMonkey and
Thunderbird. I believe Opera also works this way. My Linux system can do
this without problems. So, being a popular OS does not demonstrate even
being adequate in this case.
So how are you supposed to know, or alter, which account you are using
to send mail? I've got six accounts set up in my email client. Or are
you talking about for received mail?
--
Tim

"That excessive bail ought not to be required, nor excessive fines imposed,
nor cruel and unusual punishments inflicted" -- Bill of Rights 1689
Capitol
2014-02-23 17:18:03 UTC
Permalink
Post by Tim Streater
Post by Capitol
Post by ***@home
They have, they give it to anyone, most people don't want it.
However, this morning she noticed that Windows Outlook doesn't put up
the senders email address. I then found out after 10 minutes Googling
that this is a design feature which has been around for 10 years and
is not adjustable without adding config files to the OS. (or playing
around with multiple key presses.) There seems to be some indication,
that later Outlook versions can do this. iOS does this, as does
SeaMonkey and Thunderbird. I believe Opera also works this way. My
Linux system can do this without problems. So, being a popular OS does
not demonstrate even being adequate in this case.
So how are you supposed to know, or alter, which account you are using
to send mail? I've got six accounts set up in my email client. Or are
you talking about for received mail?
Received mail.
dennis@home
2014-02-23 21:29:04 UTC
Permalink
Post by Capitol
Post by ***@home
They have, they give it to anyone, most people don't want it.
However, this morning she noticed that Windows Outlook doesn't put
up the senders email address. I then found out after 10 minutes Googling
that this is a design feature which has been around for 10 years and is
not adjustable without adding config files to the OS. (or playing around
with multiple key presses.) There seems to be some indication, that
later Outlook versions can do this. iOS does this, as does SeaMonkey and
Thunderbird. I believe Opera also works this way. My Linux system can do
this without problems. So, being a popular OS does not demonstrate even
being adequate in this case.
Outlook does.

Do you mean outlook express, that software that hasn't been supported
for about 5 years? Is full of bugs and M$ say you shouldn't use?
Capitol
2014-02-23 22:48:37 UTC
Permalink
Post by ***@home
Post by Capitol
Post by ***@home
They have, they give it to anyone, most people don't want it.
However, this morning she noticed that Windows Outlook doesn't put
up the senders email address. I then found out after 10 minutes Googling
that this is a design feature which has been around for 10 years and is
not adjustable without adding config files to the OS. (or playing around
with multiple key presses.) There seems to be some indication, that
later Outlook versions can do this. iOS does this, as does SeaMonkey and
Thunderbird. I believe Opera also works this way. My Linux system can do
this without problems. So, being a popular OS does not demonstrate even
being adequate in this case.
Outlook does.
Do you mean outlook express, that software that hasn't been supported
for about 5 years? Is full of bugs and M$ say you shouldn't use?
No. Full fat Outlook.
dennis@home
2014-02-23 23:44:00 UTC
Permalink
Post by Capitol
Post by ***@home
Post by Capitol
Post by ***@home
They have, they give it to anyone, most people don't want it.
However, this morning she noticed that Windows Outlook doesn't put
up the senders email address. I then found out after 10 minutes Googling
that this is a design feature which has been around for 10 years and is
not adjustable without adding config files to the OS. (or playing around
with multiple key presses.) There seems to be some indication, that
later Outlook versions can do this. iOS does this, as does SeaMonkey and
Thunderbird. I believe Opera also works this way. My Linux system can do
this without problems. So, being a popular OS does not demonstrate even
being adequate in this case.
Outlook does.
Do you mean outlook express, that software that hasn't been supported
for about 5 years? Is full of bugs and M$ say you shouldn't use?
No. Full fat Outlook.
My outlook 2007 displays the senders address (and name).
Outlook 2003 did too.

I don't have the latest version to look at.
Tim Streater
2014-02-23 13:22:06 UTC
Permalink
Post by ***@home
What do you expect, MACs are designed to go obsolete every few years.
No, MACs are fixed and there is usually no reason to change them. None
has ever changed on any machine I've ever used.
Post by ***@home
With Apple you look at the windows hardware and wonder why the same
thing costs twice as much.
A typical windows fanboi myth.
--
Tim

"That excessive bail ought not to be required, nor excessive fines imposed,
nor cruel and unusual punishments inflicted" -- Bill of Rights 1689
dennis@home
2014-02-23 21:35:39 UTC
Permalink
Post by Tim Streater
Post by ***@home
What do you expect, MACs are designed to go obsolete every few years.
No, MACs are fixed and there is usually no reason to change them. None
has ever changed on any machine I've ever used.
You bought a completely un-upgradeable system?
Well they would be fixed then.
Post by Tim Streater
Post by ***@home
With Apple you look at the windows hardware and wonder why the same
thing costs twice as much.
A typical windows fanboi myth.
Go and buy a new graphics card for a MAC and see how much more they
charge if you don't believe me.
The Natural Philosopher
2014-02-23 21:46:37 UTC
Permalink
Post by ***@home
Post by Tim Streater
Post by ***@home
What do you expect, MACs are designed to go obsolete every few years.
No, MACs are fixed and there is usually no reason to change them. None
has ever changed on any machine I've ever used.
You bought a completely un-upgradeable system?
Well they would be fixed then.
well you can have a couple of G4s I think we still have lying around.,
Cant upgrade em at all.
Post by ***@home
Post by Tim Streater
Post by ***@home
With Apple you look at the windows hardware and wonder why the same
thing costs twice as much.
A typical windows fanboi myth.
Go and buy a new graphics card for a MAC and see how much more they
charge if you don't believe me.
--
Ineptocracy

(in-ep-toc’-ra-cy) – a system of government where the least capable to
lead are elected by the least capable of producing, and where the
members of society least likely to sustain themselves or succeed, are
rewarded with goods and services paid for by the confiscated wealth of a
diminishing number of producers.
Tim Streater
2014-02-23 22:33:44 UTC
Permalink
Post by ***@home
Post by Tim Streater
Post by ***@home
What do you expect, MACs are designed to go obsolete every few years.
No, MACs are fixed and there is usually no reason to change them. None
has ever changed on any machine I've ever used.
You bought a completely un-upgradeable system?
Why would I need to change the MAC on my Mac? What benefit would that
bring?
Post by ***@home
Post by Tim Streater
Post by ***@home
With Apple you look at the windows hardware and wonder why the same
thing costs twice as much.
A typical windows fanboi myth.
Go and buy a new graphics card for a MAC and see how much more they
charge if you don't believe me.
A meaningless assertion. A MAC is a 48-bit number.
--
Tim

"That excessive bail ought not to be required, nor excessive fines imposed,
nor cruel and unusual punishments inflicted" -- Bill of Rights 1689
dennis@home
2014-02-23 23:45:23 UTC
Permalink
Post by Tim Streater
Post by ***@home
Post by Tim Streater
Post by ***@home
What do you expect, MACs are designed to go obsolete every few years.
No, MACs are fixed and there is usually no reason to change them. None
has ever changed on any machine I've ever used.
You bought a completely un-upgradeable system?
Why would I need to change the MAC on my Mac? What benefit would that
bring?
Post by ***@home
Post by Tim Streater
Post by ***@home
With Apple you look at the windows hardware and wonder why the same
thing costs twice as much.
A typical windows fanboi myth.
Go and buy a new graphics card for a MAC and see how much more they
charge if you don't believe me.
A meaningless assertion. A MAC is a 48-bit number.
Very good, now go and pick your own nits.
The Natural Philosopher
2014-02-24 08:16:09 UTC
Permalink
Post by ***@home
Post by Tim Streater
A meaningless assertion. A MAC is a 48-bit number.
Very good, now go and pick your own nits.
You got a light MAC?

No but I got a dark brown overcoat.
--
Ineptocracy

(in-ep-toc’-ra-cy) – a system of government where the least capable to
lead are elected by the least capable of producing, and where the
members of society least likely to sustain themselves or succeed, are
rewarded with goods and services paid for by the confiscated wealth of a
diminishing number of producers.
polygonum
2014-02-24 08:24:32 UTC
Permalink
Post by The Natural Philosopher
Post by ***@home
Post by Tim Streater
A meaningless assertion. A MAC is a 48-bit number.
Very good, now go and pick your own nits.
You got a light MAC?
No but I got a dark brown overcoat.
What do you tell your wife? Beaten up again?
--
Rod
The Natural Philosopher
2014-02-24 08:29:48 UTC
Permalink
Post by polygonum
Post by The Natural Philosopher
Post by ***@home
Post by Tim Streater
A meaningless assertion. A MAC is a 48-bit number.
Very good, now go and pick your own nits.
You got a light MAC?
No but I got a dark brown overcoat.
What do you tell your wife? Beaten up again?
Let's face it, she's credulous as hell..
--
Ineptocracy

(in-ep-toc’-ra-cy) – a system of government where the least capable to
lead are elected by the least capable of producing, and where the
members of society least likely to sustain themselves or succeed, are
rewarded with goods and services paid for by the confiscated wealth of a
diminishing number of producers.
Tim Streater
2014-02-24 09:06:51 UTC
Permalink
Post by ***@home
Post by Tim Streater
Post by ***@home
Post by Tim Streater
Post by ***@home
What do you expect, MACs are designed to go obsolete every few years.
No, MACs are fixed and there is usually no reason to change them. None
has ever changed on any machine I've ever used.
You bought a completely un-upgradeable system?
Why would I need to change the MAC on my Mac? What benefit would that
bring?
Post by ***@home
Post by Tim Streater
Post by ***@home
With Apple you look at the windows hardware and wonder why the same
thing costs twice as much.
A typical windows fanboi myth.
Go and buy a new graphics card for a MAC and see how much more they
charge if you don't believe me.
A meaningless assertion. A MAC is a 48-bit number.
Very good, now go and pick your own nits.
Ah, you finally got a clue.
--
"The idea that Bill Gates has appeared like a knight in shining armour to
lead all customers out of a mire of technological chaos neatly ignores
the fact that it was he who, by peddling second-rate technology, led them
into it in the first place." - Douglas Adams
John Rumm
2014-02-25 23:38:00 UTC
Permalink
Post by Tim Streater
Post by ***@home
Post by Tim Streater
Post by ***@home
What do you expect, MACs are designed to go obsolete every few years.
No, MACs are fixed and there is usually no reason to change them. None
has ever changed on any machine I've ever used.
You bought a completely un-upgradeable system?
Why would I need to change the MAC on my Mac? What benefit would that
bring?
Post by ***@home
Post by Tim Streater
Post by ***@home
With Apple you look at the windows hardware and wonder why the same
thing costs twice as much.
A typical windows fanboi myth.
Go and buy a new graphics card for a MAC and see how much more they
charge if you don't believe me.
A meaningless assertion. A MAC is a 48-bit number.
A MAC _address_ *on some network interfaces like ethernet* is a 48 bit
number.

(for the pedants)
--
Cheers,

John.

/=================================================================\
| Internode Ltd - http://www.internode.co.uk |
|-----------------------------------------------------------------|
| John Rumm - john(at)internode(dot)co(dot)uk |
\=================================================================/
Davey
2014-02-21 10:59:19 UTC
Permalink
On Fri, 21 Feb 2014 10:01:43 -0000
Post by Dave Baker
I've managed for years now with a 14 year old, 2000 year model Intel
Pentium 733 mHz that refuses to die but is just too slow for the
modern age. It doesn't like playing H264 videos so I have to download
Xvids or convert MP4s to Xvid. However that takes ages. An hour or
more to convert a 30 minute tv program video file. I just looked its
speed up on a cpu benchmark site. Struth. It gets a speed of about
100 whereas even mid range modern pcs are over 3000. A one hour file
convert operation on this old thing would be 2 minutes or less on a
modern pc and I wouldn't even need to do it in the first place.
Oh but what a fucking pain moving all the files and programs to a new
pc and a new operating system. Days of work. Can I be arsed?
Sounds like my Windows Millenium Dell, that has long since been
relegated to Zoneminder duty. A modern PC will run rings around it
before it even finishes booting up, and that's with Ubuntu, which is
itself much faster starting than Windows. As mentioned by others, back
everything up to external HDDs (good practice anyway), and then all
subsequent upgrades are much easier (Never easy, just easier).
Personally, I back up all mail and documents every evening,
automatically.
--
Davey.
Dave Plowman (News)
2014-02-21 10:57:57 UTC
Permalink
Post by Dave Baker
I've managed for years now with a 14 year old, 2000 year model Intel
Pentium 733 mHz that refuses to die but is just too slow for the modern
age. It doesn't like playing H264 videos so I have to download Xvids or
convert MP4s to Xvid. However that takes ages. An hour or more to
convert a 30 minute tv program video file. I just looked its speed up
on a cpu benchmark site. Struth. It gets a speed of about 100 whereas
even mid range modern pcs are over 3000. A one hour file convert
operation on this old thing would be 2 minutes or less on a modern pc
and I wouldn't even need to do it in the first place.
Oh but what a fucking pain moving all the files and programs to a new pc
and a new operating system. Days of work. Can I be arsed?
No reason why you can't transfer your existing HD to a new PC and add it
as an alternative OS? I have both Win7 and XP on this machine and get the
choice at boot. If your existing HD is IDE, you would have to make sure
your new machine has a port for that - or get an adaptor.
--
*When you've seen one shopping centre you've seen a mall*

Dave Plowman ***@davenoise.co.uk London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.
Tim Streater
2014-02-21 11:38:19 UTC
Permalink
Post by Dave Plowman (News)
Post by Dave Baker
I've managed for years now with a 14 year old, 2000 year model Intel
Pentium 733 mHz that refuses to die but is just too slow for the modern
age. It doesn't like playing H264 videos so I have to download Xvids or
convert MP4s to Xvid. However that takes ages. An hour or more to
convert a 30 minute tv program video file. I just looked its speed up
on a cpu benchmark site. Struth. It gets a speed of about 100 whereas
even mid range modern pcs are over 3000. A one hour file convert
operation on this old thing would be 2 minutes or less on a modern pc
and I wouldn't even need to do it in the first place.
Oh but what a fucking pain moving all the files and programs to a new pc
and a new operating system. Days of work. Can I be arsed?
No reason why you can't transfer your existing HD to a new PC and add it
as an alternative OS? I have both Win7 and XP on this machine and get the
choice at boot. If your existing HD is IDE, you would have to make sure
your new machine has a port for that - or get an adaptor.
I just connect the new machine to the network and run
MigrationAssistant. Then I disconnect the old machine from the network
prior to cleaning for resale. Simples. This process has worked for 10
years or so without a hitch over four, possibly five, versions of the
OS.
--
"The idea that Bill Gates has appeared like a knight in shining armour to
lead all customers out of a mire of technological chaos neatly ignores
the fact that it was he who, by peddling second-rate technology, led them
into it in the first place." - Douglas Adams
Jethro_uk
2014-02-21 11:18:53 UTC
Permalink
Post by Dave Baker
I've managed for years now with a 14 year old, 2000 year model Intel
Pentium 733 mHz that refuses to die but is just too slow for the modern
age. It doesn't like playing H264 videos so I have to download Xvids or
convert MP4s to Xvid. However that takes ages. An hour or more to
convert a 30 minute tv program video file. I just looked its speed up on
a cpu benchmark site. Struth. It gets a speed of about 100 whereas even
mid range modern pcs are over 3000. A one hour file convert operation on
this old thing would be 2 minutes or less on a modern pc and I wouldn't
even need to do it in the first place.
Oh but what a fucking pain moving all the files and programs to a new pc
and a new operating system. Days of work. Can I be arsed?
Slightly OT, but we're watching the original "House of Cards" (to refresh
our memories before tackling the US version).

I was amused to see a scene where a PC get's turned on, and you can hear
it booting up.

Into DOS.

Running Wordstar.

.tb

With an orange screen.
Tim Watts
2014-02-21 11:19:11 UTC
Permalink
Post by Dave Baker
I've managed for years now with a 14 year old, 2000 year model Intel
Pentium 733 mHz that refuses to die but is just too slow for the modern
age. It doesn't like playing H264 videos so I have to download Xvids or
convert MP4s to Xvid. However that takes ages. An hour or more to
convert a 30 minute tv program video file. I just looked its speed up on
a cpu benchmark site. Struth. It gets a speed of about 100 whereas even
mid range modern pcs are over 3000. A one hour file convert operation on
this old thing would be 2 minutes or less on a modern pc and I wouldn't
even need to do it in the first place.
Oh but what a fucking pain moving all the files and programs to a new pc
and a new operating system. Days of work. Can I be arsed?
[Sorry - hit reply instead of followup - just switched to Thunderbird
for USENET, not used to knobs]

First, get organised - have all your "files" under one root directory,
akin to "home" on unix. Even better - on a separate partition.

Then at least that part becomes just a copy over (even if the copy takes
ages you don't need to think about it).

Programs - reinstall as you need - I often find that half the cruft I
installed I don't actually use!

HTH
Tim
News
2014-02-21 12:42:51 UTC
Permalink
In message <le787q$93n$***@speranza.aioe.org>, Dave Baker <***@null.com>
writes
Post by Dave Baker
Oh but what a fucking pain moving all the files and programs to a new
pc and a new operating system. Days of work. Can I be arsed?
I'm in the same position - see various other threads :-)

This time, I have just stuffed the old hard drive into the newer PC, and
copy stuff over when I think about it. Last time, I bought a KVM
thingy, which worked very well. It meant both boxes had to be running,
of course, but only one keyboard/monitor/mouse cluttering up the desk,
and again, I just did it over time.

That was data, of course. Regarding programs, I rarely copy from one
drive to another. These days it is just as easy to download again, or
install from the CD. The only 'settings' I copy over are Turnpike,
Firefox and desktop shortcuts to external links.

Regarding buying a new PC, last time I just bought whatever was on
special offer at Tesco. Probably not the very latest model, but a huge
improvement on the old one it replaced!
--
Graeme
m***@care2.com
2014-02-21 13:36:21 UTC
Permalink
Post by Dave Baker
I've managed for years now with a 14 year old, 2000 year model Intel Pentium
733 mHz that refuses to die but is just too slow for the modern age. It
doesn't like playing H264 videos so I have to download Xvids or convert MP4s
to Xvid. However that takes ages. An hour or more to convert a 30 minute tv
program video file. I just looked its speed up on a cpu benchmark site.
Struth. It gets a speed of about 100 whereas even mid range modern pcs are
over 3000. A one hour file convert operation on this old thing would be 2
minutes or less on a modern pc and I wouldn't even need to do it in the
first place.
Oh but what a fucking pain moving all the files and programs to a new pc and
a new operating system. Days of work. Can I be arsed?
P3 733, ouch. Win2k or 98 presumably. Most of this can be done in no time:
- buy a pc without OS (why pay £80/100 for a crap OS?)
- put linux mint or similar on it
- get a SATA/PATA adaptor and put your old HDD into the PC

Now, linux has almost every app you need already installed, your data's all there on the old hdd. You can even run many apps from the old disc under linux, but its better to use native linux apps. Desktop linuxes come with a vast repository of tested securely held apps you can install, dont go grab apps from the wild like you do with windows. Easy. Just one thing you need to know: in some versions of linux, to read a hdd you have to tell it to mount it first. These days you can sit a windows only user in front of linux and they can do almost everything with no training. Believe me, you wont look back.


NT
chris French
2014-02-21 21:02:58 UTC
Permalink
Post by m***@care2.com
Post by Dave Baker
I've managed for years now with a 14 year old, 2000 year model Intel Pentium
733 mHz that refuses to die but is just too slow for the modern age. It
doesn't like playing H264 videos so I have to download Xvids or convert MP4s
to Xvid. However that takes ages. An hour or more to convert a 30 minute tv
program video file. I just looked its speed up on a cpu benchmark site.
Struth. It gets a speed of about 100 whereas even mid range modern pcs are
over 3000. A one hour file convert operation on this old thing would be 2
minutes or less on a modern pc and I wouldn't even need to do it in the
first place.
Oh but what a fucking pain moving all the files and programs to a new pc and
a new operating system. Days of work. Can I be arsed?
- buy a pc without OS (why pay £80/100 for a crap OS?)
- put linux mint or similar on it
- get a SATA/PATA adaptor and put your old HDD into the PC
How many places can you save 80/100 by buying machine without Windows
(as opposed to building your own).?

Given that volume licensing costs are nothing like that much for system
builders.
--
Chris French
m***@care2.com
2014-02-21 21:35:45 UTC
Permalink
Post by chris French
Post by m***@care2.com
- buy a pc without OS (why pay £80/100 for a crap OS?)
- put linux mint or similar on it
- get a SATA/PATA adaptor and put your old HDD into the PC
How many places can you save 80/100 by buying machine without Windows
(as opposed to building your own).?
Given that volume licensing costs are nothing like that much for system
builders.
I forget who the last one was from, but there are various companies that'll make you a pc. Argos do a good deal on an OSless system. It simply doesnt make sense to buy windows now, especially with all the idiocy of win8.


NT
chris French
2014-02-21 22:18:00 UTC
Permalink
Post by m***@care2.com
Post by chris French
Post by m***@care2.com
- buy a pc without OS (why pay £80/100 for a crap OS?)
- put linux mint or similar on it
- get a SATA/PATA adaptor and put your old HDD into the PC
How many places can you save 80/100 by buying machine without Windows
(as opposed to building your own).?
Given that volume licensing costs are nothing like that much for system
builders.
I forget who the last one was from, but there are various companies
that'll make you a pc. Argos do a good deal on an OSless system. It
simply doesnt make sense to buy windows now, especially with all the
idiocy of win8.
I don't doubt you can get them, just that you will save that much
money
--
Chris French
Brian Gaff
2014-02-21 19:46:20 UTC
Permalink
Well you could upgrade to a not so old one I suppose.
Brian
--
From the Sofa of Brian Gaff Reply address is active
Post by Dave Baker
I've managed for years now with a 14 year old, 2000 year model Intel
Pentium 733 mHz that refuses to die but is just too slow for the modern
age. It doesn't like playing H264 videos so I have to download Xvids or
convert MP4s to Xvid. However that takes ages. An hour or more to convert
a 30 minute tv program video file. I just looked its speed up on a cpu
benchmark site. Struth. It gets a speed of about 100 whereas even mid
range modern pcs are over 3000. A one hour file convert operation on this
old thing would be 2 minutes or less on a modern pc and I wouldn't even
need to do it in the first place.
Oh but what a fucking pain moving all the files and programs to a new pc
and a new operating system. Days of work. Can I be arsed?
--
Dave Baker
Dave Baker
2014-02-21 21:20:25 UTC
Permalink
Post by Dave Baker
I've managed for years now with a 14 year old, 2000 year model Intel
Pentium 733 mHz that refuses to die .....
I don't feckin believe it. The more or less exact second I post how it's
worked faultlessly for 14 years I fire up VLC media player to watch a tv
prog I'd downloaded and there's no frigging sound. The pc is hooked up to my
trusty NAD 3020 amp which is heading for 40 years old and thence to the KEF
Celeste IV speakers bought at the same time. Beautiful sound quality and I
don't even have a hifi as such anymore. I just use Winamp to play my record
collection of mp3s from the pc hard disc.

Anyhoo, tit about cluelessly for half an hour wiggling the phono lead from
the pc to the amp, jiggling the volume control knob on the amp, opening up
the pc, gagging at the amount of stinky brown fluff and crap that's
accumulated in there in the 2 years since I moved house, brush most of that
out with a toothbrush which at least has probably helped the almost totally
blocked power supply and cpu fans to cool things properly, tapping the
various electrickery things inside the pc with the end of the toothbrush
which is my go-to solution for all electronic problems as I have no feckin
idea how any of them work. All I succeed in doing is finding the mouse
pointer has now frozen so I reboot the pc which was probably a good idea
anyway as it just stays on for weeks at a time but still no feckin sound.

Need to establish whether it's the pc motherboard sound card or the amp, or
maybe even just the phono lead. Scratch head, rack brains, there's my old
hifi cassette player somewhere but god knows where and even less chance of
finding any leads for it. Hmmmm, idea. If I fire up the old laptop which I
haven't used for 18 months since the screen stopped working I can plug the
amp into the speaker socket of that, use the desktop monitor as a screen via
the external monitor port on the laptop and see if that will play music or
video. That will at least establish if it's the pc motherboard or not. Scrat
around to eventually find the laptop tucked away in one of the spare
bedrooms. Bring it back to the kitchen. Bollocks, need the power supply
charger thingy. Where the feck's that? Another 30 minutes to find that. More
bollocks. I forgot it has a two pin continental type plug and there's an
adaptor that goes into the wall socket first. Another 30 minutes and that
finally turns up in yet another room.

Get the whole shebang fired up with the amp plugged into the laptop and
fecking arse tits bollockery buggery still no bloody sound!

Very pissed off now, especially as looks like my gorgeous NAD 3020 is the
thing that's kapput. Decide to at least tidy up the kitchen where the pc is
as I've spent so much time moving piles of paperwork, books, deodorant, nail
clippers and all the other crap I just fill the worktops with rather than
store them somewhere sensible while trying to find the continental plug
adaptor and other things. Shift loads of old paperwork to a spare room, move
the floor broom, the handle of which is leaning against the amp front panel
because my pet ferret Brutus knocked it over when he was having a belt round
the place this morning after being let out of his cage. Idly wonder what all
those buttons on the panel do that say aux, tuner, phono, tape because it's
been so many years since I touched any of them.

Press a couple at random just for shits and giggles. Suddenly realise, hang
on a sec, which one needs to be pressed in for the pc sound to work? Must be
the aux one. Why was the phono one the one that was in? Press the aux one in
which pops the phono one back out, fire up a video in vlc - ahaaaa, sound :)

Bloody ferret! He's knocked the broom handle into the amp, switched the
buttons from aux to phono and caused me several hours of pointless
buggeration and hair pulling.

The ironic thing is the only reason I'm using such an old pc in the first
place is because my previous ferret Verity broke my last proper pc which was
an AMD 1400 or summat when I had the case open for something and she climbed
up to have a look round and tipped a can of coke into it. Fried the bugger
completely. I borrowed the old slow pentium from a mate as a stopgap and am
still using it 8 years later.

So apparently the entirety of my computer problems for basically the last
decade have been ferret related rather than hardware related. Not quite sure
what to make of that as a moral for life.

Brutus, if I didn't love you more than just about anything in the world I'd
spank your hairy little arse but then you have no idea what you did and
never meant any of it anyway.
--
Dave Baker
The Natural Philosopher
2014-02-21 21:41:25 UTC
Permalink
Post by Dave Baker
Post by Dave Baker
I've managed for years now with a 14 year old, 2000 year model Intel
Pentium 733 mHz that refuses to die .....
I don't feckin believe it. The more or less exact second I post how it's
worked faultlessly for 14 years I fire up VLC media player to watch a tv
prog I'd downloaded and there's no frigging sound. The pc is hooked up
to my trusty NAD 3020 amp which is heading for 40 years old and thence
to the KEF Celeste IV speakers bought at the same time. Beautiful sound
quality and I don't even have a hifi as such anymore. I just use Winamp
to play my record collection of mp3s from the pc hard disc.
Anyhoo, tit about cluelessly for half an hour wiggling the phono lead
from the pc to the amp, jiggling the volume control knob on the amp,
opening up the pc, gagging at the amount of stinky brown fluff and crap
that's accumulated in there in the 2 years since I moved house, brush
most of that out with a toothbrush which at least has probably helped
the almost totally blocked power supply and cpu fans to cool things
properly, tapping the various electrickery things inside the pc with the
end of the toothbrush which is my go-to solution for all electronic
problems as I have no feckin idea how any of them work. All I succeed in
doing is finding the mouse pointer has now frozen so I reboot the pc
which was probably a good idea anyway as it just stays on for weeks at a
time but still no feckin sound.
Need to establish whether it's the pc motherboard sound card or the amp,
or maybe even just the phono lead. Scratch head, rack brains, there's my
old hifi cassette player somewhere but god knows where and even less
chance of finding any leads for it. Hmmmm, idea. If I fire up the old
laptop which I haven't used for 18 months since the screen stopped
working I can plug the amp into the speaker socket of that, use the
desktop monitor as a screen via the external monitor port on the laptop
and see if that will play music or video. That will at least establish
if it's the pc motherboard or not. Scrat around to eventually find the
laptop tucked away in one of the spare bedrooms. Bring it back to the
kitchen. Bollocks, need the power supply charger thingy. Where the
feck's that? Another 30 minutes to find that. More bollocks. I forgot it
has a two pin continental type plug and there's an adaptor that goes
into the wall socket first. Another 30 minutes and that finally turns up
in yet another room.
Get the whole shebang fired up with the amp plugged into the laptop and
fecking arse tits bollockery buggery still no bloody sound!
Very pissed off now, especially as looks like my gorgeous NAD 3020 is
the thing that's kapput. Decide to at least tidy up the kitchen where
the pc is as I've spent so much time moving piles of paperwork, books,
deodorant, nail clippers and all the other crap I just fill the worktops
with rather than store them somewhere sensible while trying to find the
continental plug adaptor and other things. Shift loads of old paperwork
to a spare room, move the floor broom, the handle of which is leaning
against the amp front panel because my pet ferret Brutus knocked it over
when he was having a belt round the place this morning after being let
out of his cage. Idly wonder what all those buttons on the panel do that
say aux, tuner, phono, tape because it's been so many years since I
touched any of them.
Press a couple at random just for shits and giggles. Suddenly realise,
hang on a sec, which one needs to be pressed in for the pc sound to
work? Must be the aux one. Why was the phono one the one that was in?
Press the aux one in which pops the phono one back out, fire up a video
in vlc - ahaaaa, sound :)
Bloody ferret! He's knocked the broom handle into the amp, switched the
buttons from aux to phono and caused me several hours of pointless
buggeration and hair pulling.
The ironic thing is the only reason I'm using such an old pc in the
first place is because my previous ferret Verity broke my last proper pc
which was an AMD 1400 or summat when I had the case open for something
and she climbed up to have a look round and tipped a can of coke into
it. Fried the bugger completely. I borrowed the old slow pentium from a
mate as a stopgap and am still using it 8 years later.
So apparently the entirety of my computer problems for basically the
last decade have been ferret related rather than hardware related. Not
quite sure what to make of that as a moral for life.
Brutus, if I didn't love you more than just about anything in the world
I'd spank your hairy little arse but then you have no idea what you did
and never meant any of it anyway.
whole afternoon yestrday trying to work out why a program that encrypts
could decrypt, and another one also could do that, but using the SAME
library routines they could not encode on one and decode the other..

Note to self. Encoding with a null key because your little program didnt
call the setup routine to get the key from a Very Secret Place is not
that helpful...
--
Ineptocracy

(in-ep-toc’-ra-cy) – a system of government where the least capable to
lead are elected by the least capable of producing, and where the
members of society least likely to sustain themselves or succeed, are
rewarded with goods and services paid for by the confiscated wealth of a
diminishing number of producers.
Tim Streater
2014-02-21 22:01:08 UTC
Permalink
Post by Dave Baker
Post by Dave Baker
I've managed for years now with a 14 year old, 2000 year model Intel
Pentium 733 mHz that refuses to die .....
I don't feckin believe it.
[snip]
Post by Dave Baker
Brutus, if I didn't love you more than just about anything in the world I'd
spank your hairy little arse but then you have no idea what you did and
never meant any of it anyway.
:-) Ha, thanks for a good larf. We're gonna have to ban the cats from
the office here, they've got just too much energy being 6-mo old
kittens. They get up on the desk, next thing you know half the
paperwork is on the floor. Yell at them and they rush off over the desk
at 900mph and there goes the other half.

Had to rescue one of them today, a bit warm in the conservatory and yet
another queen wasp wakes up. Male kitten goes berserk trying to catch
it - he's going to regret that at some point this summer. Luckily I
managed to flatten it (wasp, not kitten) in time.

Still, I'm enjoying reading about the time all you windows/linux
wallies must have on your hands, the hoops you all insist on jumping
through. Keep going, chaps.
--
Tim

"That excessive bail ought not to be required, nor excessive fines imposed,
nor cruel and unusual punishments inflicted" -- Bill of Rights 1689
MattyF
2014-02-22 04:10:55 UTC
Permalink
Post by Dave Baker
I've managed for years now with a 14 year old, 2000 year model Intel
Pentium 733 mHz that refuses to die but is just too slow for the modern
age.
My 1982 HP 286 is still going fine. With a decent operating system, it
can be faster for some tasks than your fancy modern PCs.
The main problem is that I can transfer files only via floppy disks, so I
have to keep a more modern machine that has a floppy drive.
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