Discussion:
Computer keyboard problem
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Bert Coules
2021-01-12 16:27:40 UTC
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I'd be grateful for any suggestions as to why one key - and only one key -
on my PC keyboard should suddenly have stopped working.

The key in question is f11 which I'm trying to program with a Word macro.
Until yesterday it was working perfectly with a slightly different version
of the same macro.

The keyboard is an admittedly quite elderly (and expensive, when bought)
Cherry model which in every other respect is working fine.

I've tried opening the case and cleaning the keyboard's innards, both with a
brush and an air spray. There's no visible damage either to the underside
of the board or (with the key cap removed) to the individual switch.

Thanks.
newshound
2021-01-12 16:53:18 UTC
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Post by Bert Coules
I'd be grateful for any suggestions as to why one key - and only one key
- on my PC keyboard should suddenly have stopped working.
The key in question is f11 which I'm trying to program with a Word
macro. Until yesterday it was working perfectly with a slightly
different version of the same macro.
The keyboard is an admittedly quite elderly (and expensive, when bought)
Cherry model which in every other respect is working fine.
I've tried opening the case and cleaning the keyboard's innards, both
with a brush and an air spray.  There's no visible damage either to the
underside of the board or (with the key cap removed) to the individual
switch.
Thanks.
IMHO decent keyboards are so cheap now that it is probably not worth
spending any more time on it. In "desktop" days I used to be very fussy
about keyboard action, it may be that having used a dozen or more
laptops in the past 20 years I have become more tolerant. I'm currently
using an HP keyboard that was £12 in Sainsburys (I bought it when I
needed to fire up a unix box, then it was in my spares box for a few
years until the Dell keyboard died).
Bert Coules
2021-01-12 17:07:52 UTC
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Post by newshound
IMHO decent keyboards are so cheap now that it is probably not worth
spending any more time on it.
The current Cherry model equivalent to mine costs just over £100.

I smiled at "not worth spending any more time": when I opened the case I
discovered that the two ribbon cables which connect the main board to a
(fixed) sub-board don't have proper connectors but are fitted with the bare
wires pushed into soldered sockets. Dead easy to pull out, rather less so
to refit...
Andy Burns
2021-01-13 11:08:22 UTC
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Post by Bert Coules
when I opened the case I
discovered that the two ribbon cables which connect the main board to a
(fixed) sub-board don't have proper connectors but are fitted with the
bare wires pushed into soldered sockets.  Dead easy to pull out, rather
less so to refit...
That type of "flatflex" cable usually has some form of (weak, easily
breakable) latch.
The Natural Philosopher
2021-01-12 17:18:33 UTC
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Post by Bert Coules
I'd be grateful for any suggestions as to why one key - and only one
key - on my PC keyboard should suddenly have stopped working.
The key in question is f11 which I'm trying to program with a Word
macro. Until yesterday it was working perfectly with a slightly
different version of the same macro.
The keyboard is an admittedly quite elderly (and expensive, when
bought) Cherry model which in every other respect is working fine.
I've tried opening the case and cleaning the keyboard's innards, both
with a brush and an air spray.  There's no visible damage either to
the underside of the board or (with the key cap removed) to the
individual switch.
Thanks.
IMHO <not very> decent keyboards are so cheap now
...that they dont last more than 6 months before the keycaps are worn
out. I'll see how the 65 quid cherry lasts
--
The urge to save humanity is almost always a false front for the urge to
rule.
– H. L. Mencken, American journalist, 1880-1956
Bert Coules
2021-01-12 17:35:52 UTC
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. I'll see how the 65 quid cherry lasts.
I've been using my current keyboard, daily and pretty much all day Monday to
Friday, for something like twenty five years. I had the one before that
(same model) for almost as long and I only replaced it because it was
physically damaged beyond obvious repair.
Bob Eager
2021-01-12 20:30:52 UTC
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Post by Bert Coules
. I'll see how the 65 quid cherry lasts.
I've been using my current keyboard, daily and pretty much all day
Monday to Friday, for something like twenty five years. I had the one
before that (same model) for almost as long and I only replaced it
because it was physically damaged beyond obvious repair.
Can beat that with this one. Purchased in 1989 and used daily ever since.

IBM Model M, of course. Cost £130 odd in 1989.
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Dave Plowman (News)
2021-01-13 14:21:03 UTC
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Post by Bert Coules
. I'll see how the 65 quid cherry lasts.
I've been using my current keyboard, daily and pretty much all day Monday to
Friday, for something like twenty five years. I had the one before that
(same model) for almost as long and I only replaced it because it was
physically damaged beyond obvious repair.
This one (IBM style) is also over 25 years old and just fine. Most soft
touch ones don't last anything like as long. I've replaced the one on my
most recent laptop. At about 5 years old.
--
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jon
2021-01-12 17:44:23 UTC
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Post by The Natural Philosopher
Post by Bert Coules
I'd be grateful for any suggestions as to why one key - and only one
key - on my PC keyboard should suddenly have stopped working.
The key in question is f11 which I'm trying to program with a Word
macro. Until yesterday it was working perfectly with a slightly
different version of the same macro.
The keyboard is an admittedly quite elderly (and expensive, when
bought) Cherry model which in every other respect is working fine.
I've tried opening the case and cleaning the keyboard's innards, both
with a brush and an air spray.  There's no visible damage either to
the underside of the board or (with the key cap removed) to the
individual switch.
Thanks.
IMHO <not very> decent keyboards are so cheap now
...that they dont last more than 6 months before the keycaps are worn
out. I'll see how the 65 quid cherry lasts
Guaranteed 50 million strikes.
The Natural Philosopher
2021-01-13 12:04:22 UTC
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Post by jon
Post by The Natural Philosopher
Post by Bert Coules
I'd be grateful for any suggestions as to why one key - and only one
key - on my PC keyboard should suddenly have stopped working.
The key in question is f11 which I'm trying to program with a Word
macro. Until yesterday it was working perfectly with a slightly
different version of the same macro.
The keyboard is an admittedly quite elderly (and expensive, when
bought) Cherry model which in every other respect is working fine.
I've tried opening the case and cleaning the keyboard's innards, both
with a brush and an air spray.  There's no visible damage either to
the underside of the board or (with the key cap removed) to the
individual switch.
Thanks.
IMHO <not very> decent keyboards are so cheap now
...that they dont last more than 6 months before the keycaps are worn
out. I'll see how the 65 quid cherry lasts
Guaranteed 50 million strikes.
that's the switches. I am nore concerned as to whether the key caps last out

They are not two shot moulded, but they are laser engraved
--
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true: it is true because it is powerful."

Lucas Bergkamp
Andrew
2021-01-12 19:09:12 UTC
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Post by The Natural Philosopher
Post by Bert Coules
I'd be grateful for any suggestions as to why one key - and only one
key - on my PC keyboard should suddenly have stopped working.
The key in question is f11 which I'm trying to program with a Word
macro. Until yesterday it was working perfectly with a slightly
different version of the same macro.
The keyboard is an admittedly quite elderly (and expensive, when
bought) Cherry model which in every other respect is working fine.
I've tried opening the case and cleaning the keyboard's innards, both
with a brush and an air spray.  There's no visible damage either to
the underside of the board or (with the key cap removed) to the
individual switch.
Thanks.
IMHO <not very> decent keyboards are so cheap now
...that they dont last more than 6 months before the keycaps are worn
out. I'll see how the 65 quid cherry lasts
The 'Chicony' USB keyboard that I bought over 20 years ago is as
good as new. It was about £12 when I bought it.
Brian Gaff (Sofa)
2021-01-13 08:08:09 UTC
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The Logitek wireless keyboards are very good.
Just one more thought, if you have been reprogramming keys, then are you
absolutely sure you have not permanently left it programmed to do nothing at
all? I've seen this happen with laptops which allow toggling of the function
keys between laptop control and the original functions when there is
registry corruption due to a hard drive issue.
Brian
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Note this Signature is meaningless.!
Post by newshound
Post by Bert Coules
I'd be grateful for any suggestions as to why one key - and only one
key - on my PC keyboard should suddenly have stopped working.
The key in question is f11 which I'm trying to program with a Word macro.
Until yesterday it was working perfectly with a slightly different
version of the same macro.
The keyboard is an admittedly quite elderly (and expensive, when bought)
Cherry model which in every other respect is working fine.
I've tried opening the case and cleaning the keyboard's innards, both
with a brush and an air spray. There's no visible damage either to the
underside of the board or (with the key cap removed) to the individual
switch.
Thanks.
IMHO decent keyboards are so cheap now that it is probably not worth
spending any more time on it. In "desktop" days I used to be very fussy
about keyboard action, it may be that having used a dozen or more laptops
in the past 20 years I have become more tolerant. I'm currently using an
HP keyboard that was £12 in Sainsburys (I bought it when I needed to fire
up a unix box, then it was in my spares box for a few years until the Dell
keyboard died).
Rod Speed
2021-01-13 09:44:41 UTC
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Post by Brian Gaff (Sofa)
The Logitek wireless keyboards are very good.
But have a real problem that if the keytop comes
off, it can be impossible to put it back on again.
Post by Brian Gaff (Sofa)
Just one more thought,
Too radical by far.
Post by Brian Gaff (Sofa)
if you have been reprogramming keys, then are you absolutely sure you have
not permanently left it programmed to do nothing at all?
Yes, it works fine in some software.
Post by Brian Gaff (Sofa)
I've seen this happen with laptops which allow toggling of the function
keys between laptop control and the original functions when there is
registry corruption due to a hard drive issue.
Post by newshound
Post by Bert Coules
I'd be grateful for any suggestions as to why one key - and only one
key - on my PC keyboard should suddenly have stopped working.
The key in question is f11 which I'm trying to program with a Word
macro. Until yesterday it was working perfectly with a slightly
different version of the same macro.
The keyboard is an admittedly quite elderly (and expensive, when bought)
Cherry model which in every other respect is working fine.
I've tried opening the case and cleaning the keyboard's innards, both
with a brush and an air spray. There's no visible damage either to the
underside of the board or (with the key cap removed) to the individual
switch.
Thanks.
IMHO decent keyboards are so cheap now that it is probably not worth
spending any more time on it. In "desktop" days I used to be very fussy
about keyboard action, it may be that having used a dozen or more laptops
in the past 20 years I have become more tolerant. I'm currently using an
HP keyboard that was £12 in Sainsburys (I bought it when I needed to fire
up a unix box, then it was in my spares box for a few years until the
Dell keyboard died).
Peeler
2021-01-13 10:56:10 UTC
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<FLUSH the trolling senile pest's latest trollshit unread>
--
"Who or What is Rod Speed?

Rod Speed is an entirely modern phenomenon. Essentially, Rod Speed
is an insecure and worthless individual who has discovered he can
enhance his own self-esteem in his own eyes by playing "the big, hard
man" on the InterNet."
https://www.pcreview.co.uk/threads/rod-speed-faq.2973853/
Bert Coules
2021-01-13 09:45:30 UTC
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That's a good thought, Brian, thanks, but it turned out not to be a purely
Word issue: the problem is now solved.
Chris Green
2021-01-13 09:56:23 UTC
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Post by Brian Gaff (Sofa)
The Logitek wireless keyboards are very good.
Yes, we have several of those, I've worn out (or scratched off) one
letter on mine but that's not a big issue really.
--
Chris Green
·
Dave Plowman (News)
2021-01-16 11:27:00 UTC
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Post by Chris Green
Post by Brian Gaff (Sofa)
The Logitek wireless keyboards are very good.
Yes, we have several of those, I've worn out (or scratched off) one
letter on mine but that's not a big issue really.
I think it is. My ancient IBM style clunky keyboard still has perfect
lettering. Because it is engraved and filled. Most modern ones simply
printed.
--
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Dave Plowman ***@davenoise.co.uk London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.
Fred
2021-01-12 17:08:06 UTC
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Post by Bert Coules
I'd be grateful for any suggestions as to why one key - and only one key -
on my PC keyboard should suddenly have stopped working.
The key in question is f11 which I'm trying to program with a Word macro.
Until yesterday it was working perfectly with a slightly different version
of the same macro.
The keyboard is an admittedly quite elderly (and expensive, when bought)
Cherry model which in every other respect is working fine.
I've tried opening the case and cleaning the keyboard's innards, both with
a brush and an air spray. There's no visible damage either to the
underside of the board or (with the key cap removed) to the individual
switch.
Most likely it's the key itself that doesn't work anymore
if it doesn't work on a different system too.
Bert Coules
2021-01-12 17:16:37 UTC
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Post by Fred
Most likely it's the key itself that doesn't work anymore
if it doesn't work on a different system too.
Thanks. I suppose I must have other software which allows the function keys
to be reassigned: I'll check.
Chris Green
2021-01-12 18:07:55 UTC
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Post by Bert Coules
Post by Fred
Most likely it's the key itself that doesn't work anymore
if it doesn't work on a different system too.
Thanks. I suppose I must have other software which allows the function keys
to be reassigned: I'll check.
You have actually tried it on a different system have you?
--
Chris Green
·
Bert Coules
2021-01-12 18:47:57 UTC
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Post by Chris Green
You have actually tried it on a different system have you?
Sorry, but I don't know what you mean by a different system. A different
PC? I don't have one.
Chris Green
2021-01-12 19:25:37 UTC
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Post by Bert Coules
Post by Chris Green
You have actually tried it on a different system have you?
Sorry, but I don't know what you mean by a different system. A different
PC? I don't have one.
I meant a different PC but since you have now found out that the F11
is working it's a bit irrelevant now.
--
Chris Green
·
Paul
2021-01-12 20:15:29 UTC
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Post by Bert Coules
Post by Chris Green
You have actually tried it on a different system have you?
Sorry, but I don't know what you mean by a different system. A
different PC? I don't have one.
Boot a Linux DVD and test the keyboard there, in a textedit window.
That way, your outlay is limited to writing to a DVD for test materials.
Typically, a single layer 4.7GB DVD is sufficient for stuff like this,
and if the DVD is re-writeable, you can use it over and over again.

Something from here should suffice. You need broadband (not a
dialup modem) for tasks like this. The reason I picked 18.3, is
slightly better integration with Windows (SAMBA works decent).
Support for this will be done soon, and newer versions have
more rough edges.

https://www.linuxmint.com/release.php?id=31

Cinnamon (32-bit)
Cinnamon (64-bit)
KDE (32-bit)
KDE (64-bit)
MATE (32-bit)
MATE (64-bit)
Xfce (32-bit)
Xfce (64-bit)

If you're on Windows, look at the "System" control panel, to see
if you're using a 32 bit or 64 bit OS. Choosing 32 bit from the above
should always be safe. Using 64 bit helps from the above, if you
had gobs of RAM (>3GB) and needed to be able to use all of it - for this
task, we don't care about that particularly.

On the mirror link I would use for this (I've already done one of these),
the sizes are listed. These images are all in the vicinity of 2 gigabytes,
so will take a number of minutes to download. Then, use Imgburn or similar,
to convert the ISO file into a bootable DVD. Then boot from it, and
test the keyboard.

http://mirror.csclub.uwaterloo.ca/linuxmint/stable/18.3/

linuxmint-18.3-cinnamon-32bit.iso 24-Nov-2017 17:00 2G
linuxmint-18.3-cinnamon-64bit.iso 24-Nov-2017 13:26 2G
linuxmint-18.3-kde-32bit.iso 13-Dec-2017 15:24 2G
linuxmint-18.3-kde-64bit.iso 13-Dec-2017 15:59 2G
linuxmint-18.3-mate-32bit.iso 24-Nov-2017 18:08 2G
linuxmint-18.3-mate-64bit.iso 24-Nov-2017 14:47 2G
linuxmint-18.3-xfce-32bit.iso 13-Dec-2017 14:56 2G
linuxmint-18.3-xfce-64bit.iso 13-Dec-2017 11:48 2G
sha256sum.txt 13-Dec-2017 16:15 774
sha256sum.txt.gpg 13-Dec-2017 16:16 819

The XFCE version, might not need quite as much RAM as the others,
as the display elements are simpler. Generally today, a computer
needs at least 1.5GB RAM to stand a chance of running random distros like that.

I don't think your keyboard is broken. Time will tell.

Note: Nothing will be installed on your computer. *Do NOT* click the
INSTALL icon typically found on the upper left of the screen
when the Linux DVD boots.

Note2: Linux distros come in LiveDVD, InstallOnlyDVD, NetworkInstall,
and this one is a LiveDVD. A LiveDVD can install, but only if
you honk on that icon. The InstallOnly flavor and the NetworkInstall
flavor, start to install right away. I am pointing you at a
collection of LiveDVD.

They make books for this. If someone asks you whether they make
books, they do. I don't really know what the current version of
this is, as these are quite old. Of these two, the first is year 2006,
the second is year 2009.

http://index-of.co.uk/Linux/Linux%20For%20Dummies%207th%20Ed.pdf

https://www.iiitd.edu.in/~amarjeet/Files/SM2012/Linux%20Dummies%209th.pdf

Paul
Peeler
2021-01-12 17:37:28 UTC
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On Wed, 13 Jan 2021 04:08:06 +1100, Fred, better known as cantankerous
trolling senile geezer Rodent Speed, wrote:

<FLUSH the trolling senile asshole's latest trollshit unread>
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cretin's pathological trolling:
https://www.pcreview.co.uk/threads/rod-speed-faq.2973853/
Bert Coules
2021-01-12 17:44:03 UTC
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Update:

Well, that was interesting. I loaded WordPerfect - and the dodgy key works
perfectly.

More Word-centred investigation needed, obviously...
Jimmy Stewart
2021-01-12 17:55:29 UTC
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Well, that was interesting.  I loaded WordPerfect - and the dodgy key
works perfectly.
More Word-centred investigation needed, obviously...
That was worthy of Holmes...tee hee
--
On FT8 nobody knows you're a dog ...
Bert Coules
2021-01-12 18:00:23 UTC
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That was worthy of Holmes...tee hee.
Why, thank you.

Here's another curious observation (tee hee):

When I try to assign the Word macro to f11 by pressing that key in the
"select shortcut key" dialogue box - up comes "f11". So the key *is* being
recognised.

I tried reassigning it with different things: letters, symbols - and none of
them worked either.

I confess myself puzzled.
Jimmy Stewart
2021-01-12 19:37:28 UTC
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Post by Bert Coules
That was worthy of Holmes...tee hee.
Why, thank you.
When I try to assign the Word macro to f11 by pressing that key in the
"select shortcut key" dialogue box - up comes "f11".  So the key *is*
being recognised.
I tried reassigning it with different things: letters, symbols - and
none of them worked either.
I confess myself puzzled.
unlike Holmes to be puzzled .....
newshound
2021-01-12 20:34:37 UTC
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Post by Bert Coules
That was worthy of Holmes...tee hee.
Why, thank you.
When I try to assign the Word macro to f11 by pressing that key in the
"select shortcut key" dialogue box - up comes "f11".  So the key *is*
being recognised.
I tried reassigning it with different things: letters, symbols - and
none of them worked either.
I confess myself puzzled.
I think those models may have completely separate switches for each key.
I guess your efforts have disturbed some dirt or wear debris that has
now settled where it is not getting in the way.
Brian Gaff (Sofa)
2021-01-13 08:04:38 UTC
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First thing to try is that keyboard on another pc. One has to isolate that
it is indeed the keyboard and not some subtle key scanning fault in the pc.
Is there any electronics in the keyboard? Could be that its just a failed
logic gate and is probably unrepeatable.
Brian
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This newsgroup posting comes to you directly from...
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Blind user, so no pictures please
Note this Signature is meaningless.!
Post by Bert Coules
I'd be grateful for any suggestions as to why one key - and only one key -
on my PC keyboard should suddenly have stopped working.
The key in question is f11 which I'm trying to program with a Word macro.
Until yesterday it was working perfectly with a slightly different version
of the same macro.
The keyboard is an admittedly quite elderly (and expensive, when bought)
Cherry model which in every other respect is working fine.
I've tried opening the case and cleaning the keyboard's innards, both with
a brush and an air spray. There's no visible damage either to the
underside of the board or (with the key cap removed) to the individual
switch.
Thanks.
Rod Speed
2021-01-13 09:41:58 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by Brian Gaff (Sofa)
First thing to try is that keyboard on another pc.
He hasn’t got another one, but can use a linux live CD.

But he knows that it works fine in other software.
Post by Brian Gaff (Sofa)
One has to isolate that it is indeed the keyboard and not some subtle key
scanning fault in the pc.
Or just the software.
Post by Brian Gaff (Sofa)
Is there any electronics in the keyboard?
There is in them all now.
Post by Brian Gaff (Sofa)
Could be that its just a failed logic gate
Not now it works fine in other software,
Post by Brian Gaff (Sofa)
and is probably unrepeatable.
Fraid it is repeatable.
Post by Brian Gaff (Sofa)
Post by Bert Coules
I'd be grateful for any suggestions as to why one key - and only one
key - on my PC keyboard should suddenly have stopped working.
The key in question is f11 which I'm trying to program with a Word macro.
Until yesterday it was working perfectly with a slightly different
version of the same macro.
The keyboard is an admittedly quite elderly (and expensive, when bought)
Cherry model which in every other respect is working fine.
I've tried opening the case and cleaning the keyboard's innards, both
with a brush and an air spray. There's no visible damage either to the
underside of the board or (with the key cap removed) to the individual
switch.
Thanks.
Bert Coules
2021-01-13 09:49:05 UTC
Reply
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Post by Rod Speed
But he knows that it works fine in other software.
And indeed, as you might have seen from another post, it turned out to be a
peculiarity of Word.

I do wish that WordPerfect had become the industry standard. It has
oddities of its own but at least they're logical oddities.
Dave W
2021-01-16 00:15:13 UTC
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On Wed, 13 Jan 2021 09:49:05 -0000, "Bert Coules"
Post by Bert Coules
Post by Rod Speed
But he knows that it works fine in other software.
And indeed, as you might have seen from another post, it turned out to be a
peculiarity of Word.
I do wish that WordPerfect had become the industry standard. It has
oddities of its own but at least they're logical oddities.
So go on, tell us what it was in Word.
--
Dave
Rod Speed
2021-01-16 02:32:20 UTC
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Post by Dave W
On Wed, 13 Jan 2021 09:49:05 -0000, "Bert Coules"
Post by Bert Coules
Post by Rod Speed
But he knows that it works fine in other software.
And indeed, as you might have seen from another post, it turned out to be a
peculiarity of Word.
I do wish that WordPerfect had become the industry standard. It has
oddities of its own but at least they're logical oddities.
So go on, tell us what it was in Word.
He did, pressing the key does nothing.
Peeler
2021-01-16 09:44:33 UTC
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On Sat, 16 Jan 2021 13:32:20 +1100, cantankerous trolling geezer Rodent
Speed, the auto-contradicting senile sociopath, blabbered, again:

<FLUSH the trolling senile asshole's latest trollshit unread>
--
"Anonymous" to trolling senile Rodent Speed:
"You can fuck off as you know less than pig shit you sad
little ignorant cunt."
MID: <***@haph.org>
Brian Gaff
2021-01-16 10:26:26 UTC
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You sure he had not made a macro that did nothing and hence it was behaving
correctly grin.
Brian
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Blind user, so no pictures please!

This document should only be read by those persons for whom Paranoia is
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and its contents are probably boring and confusing. If you receive this
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message in error, do not notify the sender immediately, instead, print it
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paper animals out of it. As the rest of this disclaimer is totally
incomprehensible, we have not bothered to attach it.
Post by Rod Speed
Post by Dave W
On Wed, 13 Jan 2021 09:49:05 -0000, "Bert Coules"
Post by Bert Coules
Post by Rod Speed
But he knows that it works fine in other software.
And indeed, as you might have seen from another post, it turned out to be a
peculiarity of Word.
I do wish that WordPerfect had become the industry standard. It has
oddities of its own but at least they're logical oddities.
So go on, tell us what it was in Word.
He did, pressing the key does nothing.
Bert Coules
2021-01-16 15:21:00 UTC
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Post by Dave W
So go on, tell us what it was in Word.
Apparently, macros saved as part of the Normal template are not
automatically applied to documents created before the addition, even though
they used the Normal template themselves.

Perhaps it was a foolish expectation on my part that they would be, rather
than an oddity, but Word has so many idiosyncrasies that I just thought my
assumption would be right.
Robin
2021-01-16 16:40:05 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by Bert Coules
Post by Dave W
So go on, tell us what it was in Word.
Apparently, macros saved as part of the Normal template are not
automatically applied to documents created before the addition, even
though they used the Normal template themselves.
JOOI which version of Word? And is this AutoOpen or AutoClose or....?
--
Robin
reply-to address is (intended to be) valid
Bert Coules
2021-01-17 02:44:12 UTC
Reply
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Post by Robin
JOOI which version of Word?
"JOO"? And it's Word 2003.
Post by Robin
And is this AutoOpen or AutoClose or....?
I've never used either. This is Alt + F then O.
Robin
2021-01-17 07:27:22 UTC
Reply
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Post by Bert Coules
Post by Robin
JOOI which version of Word?
"JOO"?
Sorry. "Just Out Of Interest".
Post by Bert Coules
And it's Word 2003.
Post by Robin
 And is this AutoOpen or AutoClose or....?
I've never used either.  This is Alt + F then  O.
My mistake. Autopen and AutoClose are special names you can give to
macros if you want them to be run automatically when you open and close
docs.

If you mean that when you save a new macro to normal.dot you cannot run
it from a previously created document then I never met that with 2003
which I used to use with a /lot/ of macros. But as you're now sorted
I'll put that down as a rare example of my being lucky.
--
Robin
reply-to address is (intended to be) valid
The Natural Philosopher
2021-01-17 07:31:04 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by Robin
Post by Bert Coules
Post by Robin
JOOI which version of Word?
"JOO"?
Sorry. "Just Out Of Interest".
Post by Bert Coules
And it's Word 2003.
Post by Robin
 And is this AutoOpen or AutoClose or....?
I've never used either.  This is Alt + F then  O.
My mistake.  Autopen and AutoClose are special names you can give to
macros if you want them to be run automatically when you open and close
docs.
If you mean that when you save a new macro to normal.dot you cannot run
it from a previously created document then I never met that with 2003
which I used to use with a /lot/ of macros. But as you're now sorted
I'll put that down as a rare example of my being lucky.
Word processors have got completely out of hand. It took me several
google searches to reveal that a style can be overriden by local
formatting which need to be cleared..

sigh. till haven't got background colour on drop caps sorted
--
Religion is regarded by the common people as true, by the wise as
foolish, and by the rulers as useful.

(Seneca the Younger, 65 AD)
Chris Green
2021-01-17 09:17:27 UTC
Reply
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Post by The Natural Philosopher
Word processors have got completely out of hand. It took me several
google searches to reveal that a style can be overriden by local
formatting which need to be cleared..
I stopped using 'word processors' back in the 1980s (probably, it was
so long ago I can't really remember).

Much of my communication is by E-Mail and that *should* be only plain
text really, I see no good reason for lots of formatting in an E-Mail.

If you want to emphasise something then *emphasise* it and, if you
want a heading:-

A Heading
=========

Even letters I write I simply edit some plain text and fire it at the
printer, hand written letters don't have big headings so why should
simple printed ones?


If I do actually want some formatted text then I use something like
reStructuredText (look it up, it's a general sort of markup language)
and convert it to HTML or whatever I happen to need.

Big advantage of all this is that I use the same text editor for
*everything*, and it's much more powerful than any word processor at
actually managing, changing and formatting *text*.
--
Chris Green
·
Bert Coules
2021-01-17 10:25:06 UTC
Reply
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Post by Chris Green
Big advantage of all this is that I use the same text editor for
*everything*, and it's much more powerful than any word processor at
actually managing, changing and formatting *text*.
That's interesting, but it's rare indeed for me to use anything other than
12pt Courier New in basic black: it's page layout and key assignations that
vary.
Chris Green
2021-01-17 11:08:48 UTC
Reply
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Post by Bert Coules
Post by Chris Green
Big advantage of all this is that I use the same text editor for
*everything*, and it's much more powerful than any word processor at
actually managing, changing and formatting *text*.
That's interesting, but it's rare indeed for me to use anything other than
12pt Courier New in basic black: it's page layout and key assignations that
vary.
"12pt Courier New" shouts word processor at me! :-)

A text editor doesn't know about typefaces, or sizes or anything, it
uses whatever you have set as the default for your system. E.g. in my
case (most of the time) it uses the default set in my terminal windows.
--
Chris Green
·
The Natural Philosopher
2021-01-17 12:43:39 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by Bert Coules
Post by Chris Green
Big advantage of all this is that I use the same text editor for
*everything*, and it's much more powerful than any word processor at
actually managing, changing and formatting *text*.
That's interesting, but it's rare indeed for me to use anything other
than 12pt Courier New in basic black: it's page layout and key
assignations that vary.
11 pt liberation serif...the freeware Times Roman...
--
"First, find out who are the people you can not criticise. They are your
oppressors."
- George Orwell
Fred
2021-01-17 18:17:55 UTC
Reply
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Post by Bert Coules
Post by Chris Green
Big advantage of all this is that I use the same text editor for
*everything*, and it's much more powerful than any word processor at
actually managing, changing and formatting *text*.
That's interesting, but it's rare indeed for me to use anything other than
12pt Courier New in basic black: it's page layout and key assignations
that vary.
I'm the reverse, don’t do much formatting at all with my
own notes which I have a lot of, but do find that colored
headings work very well indeed.
Bert Coules
2021-01-18 09:05:57 UTC
Reply
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Post by Fred
I'm the reverse, don’t do much formatting at all with my
own notes...
Ah, but I work in an industry where exact and precise formatting -
especially in the American market - is paramount. I've read of work being
rejected out of hand because it was printed with incorrect page margins.
Rod Speed
2021-01-17 18:38:31 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by Chris Green
Post by The Natural Philosopher
Word processors have got completely out of hand. It took me several
google searches to reveal that a style can be overriden by local
formatting which need to be cleared..
I stopped using 'word processors' back in the 1980s (probably, it was
so long ago I can't really remember).
Much of my communication is by E-Mail and that *should* be only plain
text really, I see no good reason for lots of formatting in an E-Mail.
More fool you, formatting is to improve communication.
Post by Chris Green
If you want to emphasise something then *emphasise* it
There isnt just one form of emphasis that is useful.
Post by Chris Green
and, if you want a heading:-
A Heading
=========
Not as useful as a different color and bold.
Post by Chris Green
Even letters I write I simply edit some
plain text and fire it at the printer,
I never do those anymore.
Post by Chris Green
hand written letters don't have big headings
so why should simple printed ones?
Because it improves communication, stupid.
Post by Chris Green
If I do actually want some formatted text then
I use something like reStructuredText (look it up,
it's a general sort of markup language) and
convert it to HTML or whatever I happen to need.
A real word processor is a far better way to do that.
Post by Chris Green
Big advantage of all this is that I use the same text editor for
*everything*, and it's much more powerful than any word processor at
actually managing, changing and formatting *text*.
You're a dinosaur.
Peeler
2021-01-17 20:14:20 UTC
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<FLUSH the trolling senile asshole's latest trollshit unread>
--
"Anonymous" to trolling senile Rodent Speed:
"You can fuck off as you know less than pig shit you sad
little ignorant cunt."
MID: <***@haph.org>
Owain Lastname
2021-01-17 14:22:29 UTC
Reply
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Post by The Natural Philosopher
sigh. till haven't got background colour on drop caps sorted
coloredlettrine is a bit of a bastard package :)

Owain
Bert Coules
2021-01-17 10:32:17 UTC
Reply
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Post by Robin
My mistake. Autopen and AutoClose are special names you can give to
macros if you want them to be run automatically when you open and close
docs.
Ah, thanks for explaining that. Does "running" mean that they have an
immediate visible effect, or that they are there, hidden, to be used at
need?

I'm very conscious of the fact that I use no more than a tiny (tiny)
fraction of what Word can do.
Post by Robin
If you mean that when you save a new macro to normal.dot you cannot run it
from a previously created document...
Yes, that's exactly what I mean.
Post by Robin
...then I never met that with 2003...
I could of course have been mistaken. When I posted, I was so fed up with
the software that it's possible I wasn't seeing straight.

Thanks for your answers.
Robin
2021-01-17 11:04:33 UTC
Reply
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Post by Robin
My mistake.  Autopen and AutoClose are special names you can give to
macros if you want them to be run automatically when you open and
close docs.
Ah, thanks for explaining that.  Does "running" mean that they have an
immediate visible effect, or that they are there, hidden, to be used at
need?
The Auto- macros run immediately you open, close etc. Whether or not
their effect is visible depends on what the macro does :)
I'm very conscious of the fact that I use no more than a tiny (tiny)
fraction of what Word can do.
Post by Robin
If you mean that when you save a new macro to normal.dot you cannot
run it from a previously created document...
Yes, that's exactly what I mean.
Post by Robin
...then I never met that with 2003...
I could of course  have been mistaken.  When I posted, I was so fed up
with the software that it's possible I wasn't seeing straight.
Yes, the plethora of options and functions can feel chaotic.

But it's all good training if the day comes when you upgrade to a later
version with the monster that is Multilevel lists.
--
Robin
reply-to address is (intended to be) valid
Bert Coules
2021-01-17 11:52:42 UTC
Reply
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Post by Robin
But it's all good training if the day comes when you upgrade to a later
version with the monster that is Multilevel lists.
I have absolutely no intention of "upgrading" to a later version. Ever!
The Natural Philosopher
2021-01-17 12:45:01 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by Robin
But it's all good training if the day comes when you upgrade to a
later version with the monster that is Multilevel lists.
I have absolutely no intention of "upgrading" to a later version.  Ever!
If I get really upset, Joe's Own Editor (JOE) does a seamless wordstar
emulation, albeit in an 80x25 console....
--
"First, find out who are the people you can not criticise. They are your
oppressors."
- George Orwell
Fred
2021-01-17 18:45:02 UTC
Reply
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Post by Bert Coules
Post by Robin
But it's all good training if the day comes when you upgrade to a later
version with the monster that is Multilevel lists.
I have absolutely no intention of "upgrading" to a later version. Ever!
You don’t always have a choice on that.
Peeler
2021-01-17 20:16:05 UTC
Reply
Permalink
On Mon, 18 Jan 2021 05:45:02 +1100, Fred, better known as cantankerous
trolling senile geezer Rodent Speed, wrote:

<FLUSH the trolling senile pest's latest trollshit unread>
--
Richard addressing senile Rodent Speed:
"Shit you're thick/pathetic excuse for a troll."
MID: <ogoa38$pul$***@news.mixmin.net>
Bert Coules
2021-01-18 09:03:19 UTC
Reply
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Post by Fred
Post by Bert Coules
I have absolutely no intention of "upgrading" to a later version. Ever!
You don’t always have a choice on that.
I'm puzzled: what circumstances could force me to change?
The Natural Philosopher
2021-01-18 09:19:13 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by Bert Coules
Post by Fred
I have absolutely no intention of "upgrading" to a later version.  Ever!
You don’t always have a choice on that.
I'm puzzled: what circumstances could force me to change?
Mostly because some other program you need insists on it

Example. Skype wont now run on my desktop. Skype versions that do are no
longer accepted by skype.
--
If I had all the money I've spent on drink...
..I'd spend it on drink.

Sir Henry (at Rawlinson's End)
Robin
2021-01-18 10:22:16 UTC
Reply
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Post by The Natural Philosopher
Post by Bert Coules
Post by Fred
Post by Bert Coules
I have absolutely no intention of "upgrading" to a later version.
Ever!
You don’t always have a choice on that.
I'm puzzled: what circumstances could force me to change?
Mostly because some other program you need insists on it
All things are possible but Office 97 runs under Windows 10 (64 bit) so
MS don't seem to be set on blocking old versions. (I couldn't resist
testing in a VM before I threw away my Office 97 disc as part of a
clear-out.)
--
Robin
reply-to address is (intended to be) valid
Fred
2021-01-18 18:15:39 UTC
Reply
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Post by Bert Coules
Post by Fred
Post by Bert Coules
I have absolutely no intention of "upgrading" to a later version. Ever!
You don’t always have a choice on that.
I'm puzzled: what circumstances could force me to change?
The OS you use is no longer supported and doesn’t
get security updates anymore so you have to update
the OS and the updated OS wont run that app.

Or something else you decide you would
like to use wont run on your older OS.
Peeler
2021-01-18 18:56:30 UTC
Reply
Permalink
On Tue, 19 Jan 2021 05:15:39 +1100, Fred, better known as cantankerous
trolling senile geezer Rodent Speed, wrote:

<FLUSH the trolling senile asshole's latest trollshit unread>
--
***@home to know-it-all Rodent Speed:
"You really should stop commenting on things you know nothing about."
Message-ID: <pCVTC.283711$%***@fx40.am4>
Bert Coules
2021-01-18 21:02:31 UTC
Reply
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Post by Fred
The OS you use is no longer supported and doesn’t
get security updates anymore so you have to update
the OS and the updated OS wont run that app.
I'm using Windows 7, which though it's officially no longer supported does
receive period security updates.
Post by Fred
Or something else you decide you would
like to use won't run on your older OS.
The only program I've so far come across in that category runs very
successfully on my Win10 laptop, so - at the moment, at least - I have
things covered.

I take your points, though; thanks.
Fred
2021-01-18 21:26:15 UTC
Reply
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Post by Bert Coules
Post by Fred
The OS you use is no longer supported and doesn’t
get security updates anymore so you have to update
the OS and the updated OS wont run that app.
I'm using Windows 7, which though it's officially no longer supported does
receive period security updates.
But that may not be true forever, XP doesn’t anymore.
Post by Bert Coules
Post by Fred
Or something else you decide you would
like to use won't run on your older OS.
The only program I've so far come across in that category runs very
successfully on my Win10 laptop,
Not true of Skype for example.
Post by Bert Coules
so - at the moment, at least - I have things covered.
I take your points, though; thanks.
Peeler
2021-01-18 21:40:19 UTC
Reply
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On Tue, 19 Jan 2021 08:26:15 +1100, Fred, better known as cantankerous
trolling senile geezer Rodent Speed, wrote:

<FLUSH trollshit>
--
Website (from 2007) dedicated to the 86-year-old senile Australian
cretin's pathological trolling:
https://www.pcreview.co.uk/threads/rod-speed-faq.2973853/
Bert Coules
2021-01-18 23:21:15 UTC
Reply
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Post by Bert Coules
I'm using Windows 7, which though it's officially no longer supported
does receive period security updates.
But that may not be true forever...
To be honest, my present thinking is that I would sacrifice the latest in
security updates if the alternative was having to replace the software I use
day in, day out, which I can operate with no conscious thought.

The only time I've ever been hacked (to my knowledge) - and it was a serious
business involving my bank account details - I was using a version of
Windows 7 which was completely up to date. Since then, Microsoft's
assurances about the very latest refinements being absolutely essential tend
to ring rather hollow.
Fred
2021-01-19 02:36:11 UTC
Reply
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Post by Bert Coules
Post by Bert Coules
I'm using Windows 7, which though it's officially no longer supported
does receive period security updates.
But that may not be true forever...
To be honest, my present thinking is that I would sacrifice the latest in
security updates if the alternative was having to replace the software I
use day in, day out, which I can operate with no conscious thought.
I am still irritated by the lack of some
of the useful new stuff in the later OSs.
Post by Bert Coules
The only time I've ever been hacked (to my knowledge) - and it was a
serious business involving my bank account details - I was using a version
of Windows 7 which was completely up to date. Since then, Microsoft's
assurances about the very latest refinements being absolutely essential
tend to ring rather hollow.
Sure, and you can obviously do more frequent backups
so that you can recover gracefully if you do get infected.

I have also setup my banking so even a successful
hacker is no more than a minor nuisance.
Peeler
2021-01-19 08:48:16 UTC
Reply
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On Tue, 19 Jan 2021 13:36:11 +1100, Fred, better known as cantankerous
trolling senile geezer Rodent Speed, wrote:

<FLUSH the trolling senile asshole's latest trollshit unread>
--
Richard addressing senile Rodent Speed:
"Shit you're thick/pathetic excuse for a troll."
MID: <ogoa38$pul$***@news.mixmin.net>
Bert Coules
2021-01-19 08:50:04 UTC
Reply
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Post by Fred
I have also setup my banking so even a successful
hacker is no more than a minor nuisance.
May I ask how you accomplished that?
Fred
2021-01-19 09:23:34 UTC
Reply
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Post by Bert Coules
Post by Fred
I have also setup my banking so even a successful
hacker is no more than a minor nuisance.
May I ask how you accomplished that?
The account where my cash is is never visible
to anyone. All they can ever see is the transaction
account which never has much of a float in it,
so that even if they loot that, its just a nuisance
until the bank restores what they looted from it.

Even if someone quite literally holds a gun to
my head and forces me to give them the bank
details, they only get the transaction account
details and again, its just a nuisance until the
bank restores what they loot from that.
Peeler
2021-01-19 09:56:37 UTC
Reply
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On Tue, 19 Jan 2021 20:23:34 +1100, Fred, better known as cantankerous
trolling senile geezer Rodent Speed, wrote:

<FLUSH the trolling senile cretin's latest trollshit unread>
--
Richard about senile Rodent:
"Rod Speed, a bare faced pig and ignorant twat."
MID: <r5uoe4$1kqo$***@gioia.aioe.org>
Bert Coules
2021-01-19 17:48:42 UTC
Reply
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Post by Fred
The account where my cash is is never visible
to anyone. All they can ever see is the transaction
account which never has much of a float in it,
Bert Coules
2021-01-19 17:52:17 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Sorry, I posted a reply prematurely. Trying again...
Post by Fred
The account where my cash is is never visible
to anyone. All they can ever see is the transaction
account which never has much of a float in it,
Thanks for that, but I'm not sure I'm with you. Is the invisible account
not online? If it is, how did you render it invisible? I'll understand if
it's a technique you'd prefer not to share.
Fred
2021-01-19 19:47:26 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by Bert Coules
Sorry, I posted a reply prematurely. Trying again...
Post by Fred
The account where my cash is is never visible
to anyone. All they can ever see is the transaction
account which never has much of a float in it,
Thanks for that, but I'm not sure I'm with you. Is the invisible account
not online?
It is online.
Post by Bert Coules
If it is, how did you render it invisible?
None of the account details or even that I have
that account is on any device that can be hacked.
And access requires my fingerprint.
Post by Bert Coules
I'll understand if it's a technique you'd prefer not to share.
That’s not a problem.
Peeler
2021-01-19 20:07:47 UTC
Reply
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<FLUSH trollshit unread>
--
Richard addressing senile Rodent Speed:
"Shit you're thick/pathetic excuse for a troll."
MID: <ogoa38$pul$***@news.mixmin.net>
Bert Coules
2021-01-19 20:47:40 UTC
Reply
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Post by Fred
None of the account details or even that I have
that account is on any device that can be hacked.
That is fascinating. I was under the impression (possibly fed by the makers
of anti-virus software) that there's no such thing as device which, when
connected to the internet, cannot be hacked.
Fred
2021-01-19 21:02:35 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by Bert Coules
Post by Fred
None of the account details or even that I have
that account is on any device that can be hacked.
That is fascinating. I was under the impression (possibly fed by the
makers of anti-virus software) that there's no such thing as device which,
when connected to the internet, cannot be hacked.
I wasn’t saying that, I was saying that none
of the devices that are on the net have any
details about that particular account on it.
Peeler
2021-01-19 21:08:49 UTC
Reply
Permalink
On Wed, 20 Jan 2021 08:02:35 +1100, Fred, better known as cantankerous
trolling senile geezer Rodent Speed, wrote:

<FLUSH the trolling senile asshole's latest trollshit unread>
--
The Natural Philosopher about senile Rodent:
"Rod speed is not a Brexiteer. He is an Australian troll and arsehole."
Message-ID: <pu07vj$s5$***@dont-email.me>
The Natural Philosopher
2021-01-20 00:08:12 UTC
Reply
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Post by Fred
None of the account details or even that I have
that account is on any device that can be hacked.
That is fascinating.  I was under the impression (possibly fed by the
makers of anti-virus software) that there's no such thing as device
which, when connected to the internet, cannot be hacked.
and which is made more vulnerable by installing anti-virus software!
But where did he say it was connected to the internet?
--
"Anyone who believes that the laws of physics are mere social
conventions is invited to try transgressing those conventions from the
windows of my apartment. (I live on the twenty-first floor.) "

Alan Sokal
Bert Coules
2021-01-20 08:02:04 UTC
Reply
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Post by The Natural Philosopher
But where did he say it was connected to the internet?
My apologies to Fred: I misunderstood.
Fred
2021-01-20 08:22:52 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by Bert Coules
Post by The Natural Philosopher
But where did he say it was connected to the internet?
My apologies to Fred: I misunderstood.
No problem, I can say things not very clearly at times.
Peeler
2021-01-20 09:18:04 UTC
Reply
Permalink
On Wed, 20 Jan 2021 19:22:52 +1100, Fred, better known as cantankerous
Post by Fred
Post by Bert Coules
My apologies to Fred: I misunderstood.
No problem, I can say things not very clearly at times.
You FINALLY found another brain damaged senile idiot who actually sucks up
to you, senile Rodent? LOL
--
Website (from 2007) dedicated to the 86-year-old senile Australian
cretin's pathological trolling:
https://www.pcreview.co.uk/threads/rod-speed-faq.2973853/
Owain Lastname
2021-01-16 10:32:04 UTC
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I do wish that WordPerfect had become the industry standard. It has
oddities of its own but at least they're logical oddities.
It *was* the industry standard, but they botched moving to Windows and never managed a coherent office suite presentation in the way MS did.

Owain
charles
2021-01-16 11:15:07 UTC
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Post by Owain Lastname
I do wish that WordPerfect had become the industry standard. It has
oddities of its own but at least they're logical oddities.
It *was* the industry standard, but they botched moving to Windows and
never managed a coherent office suite presentation in the way MS did.
Owain
since MS created both Windows and MS Office, that's hardly surprising.

There was more it than that. My department adopted Wordperfect but were
told the corporate policy was to use MS products. I think this was at the
time of Win 3.1
--
from KT24 in Surrey, England
"I'd rather die of exhaustion than die of boredom" Thomas Carlyle
Bert Coules
2021-01-16 15:23:25 UTC
Reply
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Post by Owain Lastname
It *was* the industry standard, but they botched
moving to Windows and never managed a coherent
office suite presentation in the way MS did.
Yes, that's fair. When I started writing it was still in the days of DOS
and I remember comparing my trusty software with the new Windows version and
not caring for the changes.
Peeler
2021-01-13 10:57:03 UTC
Reply
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<FLUSH the trolling senile asshole's latest trollshit unread>
--
pamela about Rodent Speed:
"His off the cuff expertise demonstrates how little he knows..."
MID: <***@81.171.92.183>
Bert Coules
2021-01-13 09:46:44 UTC
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Now sorted, Brian, thanks: it was due to a a peculiarity of Word, a program
not exactly known for such things.
Bert Coules
2021-01-13 19:06:28 UTC
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a program not exactly known for such things.
Oh, good grief. UNknown...
R D S
2021-01-13 12:11:05 UTC
Reply
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Post by Bert Coules
I'd be grateful for any suggestions as to why one key - and only one key
- on my PC keyboard should suddenly have stopped working.
The key in question is f11 which I'm trying to program with a Word
macro. Until yesterday it was working perfectly with a slightly
different version of the same macro.
Is it definitely the key itself not working?
I recall there's some faff assigning macros to keys and sometimes i've
done it unsuccessfully due to the not entirely intuitive process.
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