Discussion:
Electric car
(too old to reply)
Radio Man
2021-09-06 19:01:30 UTC
Permalink
The missus is getting green and now wants one of those poofter electric
cars. What are the arguments against it?

Don't the batteries pack up after a few years?
Rod Speed
2021-09-06 22:26:58 UTC
Permalink
Post by Radio Man
The missus is getting green and now wants one of those
poofter electric cars. What are the arguments against it?
Stupid having to plug the damned thing in every fucking night.

Stupid price.

Stupid not having decent heating in winter.

Stupidly slow to recharge on long trips.
Post by Radio Man
Don't the batteries pack up after a few years?
Yep, so its worthless quite quickly.
Peeler
2021-09-06 22:28:08 UTC
Permalink
On Tue, 7 Sep 2021 08:26:58 +1000, cantankerous trolling geezer Rodent
Speed, the auto-contradicting senile sociopath, blabbered, again:

<FLUSH the abnormal trolling senile cretin's latest trollshit unread>
Brian Gaff (Sofa)
2021-09-07 07:54:18 UTC
Permalink
And the materials used in the current batteries are dug out of the ground
and rare and expensive. I think they are going to replace Lithium with song
else soon. I did wonder if you could just buy the battery, and a charging
circuit and an inverter, go on the cheap overnight charging rate offered and
then run the house during the day from the battery?
That would put the energy companies noses out of joint.
Brian
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Blind user, so no pictures please
Note this Signature is meaningless.!
Post by Rod Speed
Post by Radio Man
The missus is getting green and now wants one of those poofter electric
cars. What are the arguments against it?
Stupid having to plug the damned thing in every fucking night.
Stupid price.
Stupid not having decent heating in winter.
Stupidly slow to recharge on long trips.
Post by Radio Man
Don't the batteries pack up after a few years?
Yep, so its worthless quite quickly.
alan_m
2021-09-07 08:03:22 UTC
Permalink
Post by Brian Gaff (Sofa)
And the materials used in the current batteries are dug out of the ground
and rare and expensive. I think they are going to replace Lithium with song
else soon. I did wonder if you could just buy the battery, and a charging
circuit and an inverter, go on the cheap overnight charging rate offered and
then run the house during the day from the battery?
That would put the energy companies noses out of joint.
And you think there is actually going to be a cheap overnight rate in
the future with everyone changing their cars? I'm sure that the energy
companies would welcome with open arm anyone willing to spend £10k on
batteries to help cope with the grid's peak demands.
--
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The Natural Philosopher
2021-09-07 08:07:54 UTC
Permalink
Post by alan_m
And the materials  used in the current batteries are dug out of the
ground
and rare and expensive. I think they are going to replace Lithium with song
else soon.  I did wonder if you could just buy the battery, and a
charging
circuit and an inverter, go on the cheap overnight charging rate offered and
then run the house during the day from the battery?
  That would put the  energy companies noses out of joint.
And you think there is actually going to be a cheap overnight rate in
the future with everyone changing their cars?  I'm sure that the energy
companies would welcome with open arm anyone willing to spend £10k on
batteries to help cope with the grid's peak demands.
+1.
--
"Corbyn talks about equality, justice, opportunity, health care, peace,
community, compassion, investment, security, housing...."
"What kind of person is not interested in those things?"

"Jeremy Corbyn?"
newshound
2021-09-07 13:21:22 UTC
Permalink
Post by alan_m
And the materials  used in the current batteries are dug out of the
ground
and rare and expensive. I think they are going to replace Lithium with song
else soon.  I did wonder if you could just buy the battery, and a
charging
circuit and an inverter, go on the cheap overnight charging rate offered and
then run the house during the day from the battery?
  That would put the  energy companies noses out of joint.
And you think there is actually going to be a cheap overnight rate in
the future with everyone changing their cars?  I'm sure that the energy
companies would welcome with open arm anyone willing to spend £10k on
batteries to help cope with the grid's peak demands.
The market is already rigged to make fashionable ideas economic. The way
things are going I can certainly see a time where plugged in cars might
become part of the stability mechanism.

Interesting article here

https://watt-logic.com/2021/09/05/developing-smart-energy-markets-for-suppliers-and-consumers/

about how Ofgem are beginning to recognise that the "social" stuff that
has been loaded on to suppliers is having unexpected consequences.
Surprise, surprise.
alan_m
2021-09-07 18:16:00 UTC
Permalink
Post by newshound
about how Ofgem are beginning to recognise that the "social" stuff that
has been loaded on to suppliers is having unexpected consequences.
Surprise, surprise.
It also suggests that the UK education system is somewaht lacking :)

"17 million adults – representing 49% of the working age population –
have the numeracy skills expected of a primary school child"
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mailto : news {at} admac {dot} myzen {dot} co {dot} uk
The Natural Philosopher
2021-09-08 06:42:47 UTC
Permalink
Post by alan_m
Post by newshound
about how Ofgem are beginning to recognise that the "social" stuff
that has been loaded on to suppliers is having unexpected
consequences. Surprise, surprise.
It also suggests that the UK education system is somewaht lacking :)
"17 million adults – representing 49% of the working age population –
have the numeracy skills expected of a primary school child"
No wonder they voted to stay in the EU
--
Any fool can believe in principles - and most of them do!
Pamela
2021-09-08 18:13:18 UTC
Permalink
Post by alan_m
Post by newshound
about how Ofgem are beginning to recognise that the "social" stuff
that has been loaded on to suppliers is having unexpected
consequences. Surprise, surprise.
It also suggests that the UK education system is somewaht lacking :)
"17 million adults representing 49% of the working age population
have the numeracy skills expected of a primary school child"
Oh my! That's far worse than I would have guessed.

I found the source here: https://tinyurl.com/uk-numeracy

There's a former lecturer in uk.politics who is trying to assure me
university students are no less intelligent than they were 60 years
ago. Yeah, right.
Pamela
2021-09-09 12:07:31 UTC
Permalink
Post by Pamela
Post by alan_m
"17 million adults representing 49% of the working age population
have the numeracy skills expected of a primary school child"
Oh my! That's far worse than I would have guessed.
I found the source here: https://tinyurl.com/uk-numeracy
There's a former lecturer in uk.politics who is trying to assure me
university students are no less intelligent than they were 60 years
ago. Yeah, right.
Unless evolution has reversed in a massive way or we're all suffering
from a mind degenerating disease it's not that we're less intelligent
it's the education system that is failing.
Sadly the last people to see that are those working in the education
system itself. Their complacency is part of the cause.
AJH
2021-09-09 12:10:15 UTC
Permalink
Post by Pamela
Post by alan_m
"17 million adults representing 49% of the working age population
have the numeracy skills expected of a primary school child"
Oh my! That's far worse than I would have guessed.
I found the source here: https://tinyurl.com/uk-numeracy
There's a former lecturer in uk.politics who is trying to assure me
university students are no less intelligent than they were 60 years
ago. Yeah, right.
Unless evolution has reversed in a massive way or we're all suffering
from a mind degenerating disease it's not that we're less intelligent
it's the education system that is failing.
Yes I was going to post much the same.

My granddaughter, 25, recently asked me why were there bales in the
fields, I was gob smacked how little she knew about farming and food
production.
Steve Walker
2021-09-09 16:34:31 UTC
Permalink
Post by Pamela
Post by alan_m
"17 million adults representing 49% of the working age population
have the numeracy skills expected of a primary school child"
Oh my! That's far worse than I would have guessed.
I found the source here: https://tinyurl.com/uk-numeracy
There's a former lecturer in uk.politics who is trying to assure me
university students are no less intelligent than they were 60 years
ago. Yeah, right.
Unless evolution has reversed in a massive way or we're all suffering
from a mind degenerating disease it's not that we're less intelligent
it's the education system that is failing.
However, as more students than ever are going to university, the range
of intelligence encompassed must be much wider, so it will be perfectly
accurate to say that the student population *IS* less intelligent than
in the past, simply because more that wouldn't have got in before, can.
Andrew
2021-09-09 18:50:21 UTC
Permalink
Post by Steve Walker
Post by alan_m
"17 million adults representing 49% of the working age population
have the numeracy skills expected of a primary school child"
Oh my!  That's far worse than I would have guessed.
I found the source here:  https://tinyurl.com/uk-numeracy
There's a former lecturer in uk.politics who is trying to assure me
university students are no less intelligent than they were 60 years
ago.  Yeah, right.
Unless evolution has reversed in a massive way or we're all suffering
from a mind degenerating disease it's not that we're less intelligent
it's the education system that is failing.
However, as more students than ever are going to university, the range
of intelligence encompassed must be much wider, so it will be perfectly
accurate to say that the student population *IS* less intelligent than
in the past, simply because more that wouldn't have got in before, can.
They might be going, but in many places like Exeter and Bristol there
are far more students than accommodation, forcing many to stay in
hotels, as I heard on Radio 4 earlier today.
Pamela
2021-09-09 21:06:00 UTC
Permalink
Post by Steve Walker
Post by Pamela
Post by alan_m
"17 million adults representing 49% of the working age population
have the numeracy skills expected of a primary school child"
Oh my! That's far worse than I would have guessed.
I found the source here: https://tinyurl.com/uk-numeracy
There's a former lecturer in uk.politics who is trying to assure
me university students are no less intelligent than they were 60
years ago. Yeah, right.
Unless evolution has reversed in a massive way or we're all
suffering from a mind degenerating disease it's not that we're less
intelligent it's the education system that is failing.
However, as more students than ever are going to university, the
range of intelligence encompassed must be much wider,
The additional 7% is not drawn from the same pool as existing students
but from the weaker residue.
Post by Steve Walker
so it will be
perfectly accurate to say that the student population *IS* less
intelligent than in the past, simply because more that wouldn't have
got in before, can.
Steve Walker
2021-09-10 00:48:55 UTC
Permalink
Post by Pamela
Post by Steve Walker
Post by Pamela
Post by alan_m
"17 million adults representing 49% of the working age population
have the numeracy skills expected of a primary school child"
Oh my! That's far worse than I would have guessed.
I found the source here: https://tinyurl.com/uk-numeracy
There's a former lecturer in uk.politics who is trying to assure
me university students are no less intelligent than they were 60
years ago. Yeah, right.
Unless evolution has reversed in a massive way or we're all
suffering from a mind degenerating disease it's not that we're less
intelligent it's the education system that is failing.
However, as more students than ever are going to university, the
range of intelligence encompassed must be much wider,
The additional 7% is not drawn from the same pool as existing students
but from the weaker residue.
Exactly what I was saying - students that would not have merited a place
without the increased numbers.
Gopalan Sampath
2021-09-10 04:59:17 UTC
Permalink
Post by Steve Walker
Post by Pamela
Post by Steve Walker
Post by alan_m
"17 million adults representing 49% of the working age population
have the numeracy skills expected of a primary school child"
Oh my! That's far worse than I would have guessed.
I found the source here: https://tinyurl.com/uk-numeracy
There's a former lecturer in uk.politics who is trying to assure
me university students are no less intelligent than they were 60
years ago. Yeah, right.
Unless evolution has reversed in a massive way or we're all
suffering from a mind degenerating disease it's not that we're less
intelligent it's the education system that is failing.
However, as more students than ever are going to university, the
range of intelligence encompassed must be much wider,
The additional 7% is not drawn from the same pool as existing students
but from the weaker residue.
Exactly what I was saying - students that would not have merited a place
without the increased numbers.
Rest Ye all!
StoreDot, an Israeli developer of extreme fast-charging (XFC) battery technology for electric vehicles, unveiled this month what it called the “world’s first” silicon-dominant battery prototype capable of recharging in just 10 minutes.
alan_m
2021-09-10 10:07:18 UTC
Permalink
Post by Gopalan Sampath
Rest Ye all!
StoreDot, an Israeli developer of extreme fast-charging (XFC) battery technology for electric vehicles, unveiled this month what it called the “world’s first” silicon-dominant battery prototype capable of recharging in just 10 minutes.
And how many Amps is that in 10 minutes from a UK mains supply? 100+
Amps for 10 minutes per 100mile range in an EV.
--
mailto : news {at} admac {dot} myzen {dot} co {dot} uk
Tim+
2021-09-10 10:18:48 UTC
Permalink
Post by alan_m
Post by Gopalan Sampath
Rest Ye all!
StoreDot, an Israeli developer of extreme fast-charging (XFC) battery
technology for electric vehicles, unveiled this month what it called the
“world’s first” silicon-dominant battery prototype capable of recharging
in just 10 minutes.
And how many Amps is that in 10 minutes from a UK mains supply? 100+
Amps for 10 minutes per 100mile range in an EV.
Rather missing the point that there’s little need for super fast charging
at home. Most folk sleep for part of the day. ;-)

Being able to recharge quickly mid-journey is what is needed.

Tim
--
Please don't feed the trolls
Steve Walker
2021-09-10 12:16:12 UTC
Permalink
Post by Tim+
Post by alan_m
Post by Gopalan Sampath
Rest Ye all!
StoreDot, an Israeli developer of extreme fast-charging (XFC) battery
technology for electric vehicles, unveiled this month what it called the
“world’s first” silicon-dominant battery prototype capable of recharging
in just 10 minutes.
And how many Amps is that in 10 minutes from a UK mains supply? 100+
Amps for 10 minutes per 100mile range in an EV.
Rather missing the point that there’s little need for super fast charging
at home. Most folk sleep for part of the day. ;-)
Being able to recharge quickly mid-journey is what is needed.
Yes, but little does not mean none. A teenager, living with parents may
use the family car and get back at 2 in the morning, when one of the
parents has to set off on a business trip at 4 and don't want to have
top set of earlier to charge en-route..

Or people may just have a very sick relative that means that after
getting home, they have to be available to set off at any time in case
of emergency - and such a sick relative might be ill for a couple of
years, so not just a one off.

Edge cases maybe
fred
2021-09-15 11:40:18 UTC
Permalink
Post by Tim+
Post by Gopalan Sampath
Rest Ye all!
StoreDot, an Israeli developer of extreme fast-charging (XFC) battery
technology for electric vehicles, unveiled this month what it called the
“world’s first” silicon-dominant battery prototype capable of recharging
in just 10 minutes.
And how many Amps is that in 10 minutes from a UK mains supply? 100+
Amps for 10 minutes per 100mile range in an EV.
Rather missing the point that there’s little need for super fast charging
at home. Most folk sleep for part of the day. ;-)
Being able to recharge quickly mid-journey is what is needed.
Tim
--
Please don't feed the trolls
Exactly. I use a slow charger at home where time is not critical but when planning a journey I look out for fast charging stations en route
Pamela
2021-09-10 09:23:38 UTC
Permalink
Post by Steve Walker
Post by Pamela
Post by Steve Walker
Post by Pamela
Post by alan_m
"17 million adults representing 49% of the working age
population have the numeracy skills expected of a primary
school child"
Oh my! That's far worse than I would have guessed.
I found the source here: https://tinyurl.com/uk-numeracy
There's a former lecturer in uk.politics who is trying to assure
me university students are no less intelligent than they were 60
years ago. Yeah, right.
Unless evolution has reversed in a massive way or we're all
suffering from a mind degenerating disease it's not that we're
less intelligent it's the education system that is failing.
However, as more students than ever are going to university, the
range of intelligence encompassed must be much wider,
The additional 7% is not drawn from the same pool as existing
students but from the weaker residue.
Exactly what I was saying - students that would not have merited a
place without the increased numbers.
Okay thanks. I misread your post!
Steve Walker
2021-09-10 12:16:52 UTC
Permalink
Post by Pamela
Post by Steve Walker
Post by Pamela
Post by Steve Walker
Post by Pamela
Post by alan_m
"17 million adults representing 49% of the working age
population have the numeracy skills expected of a primary
school child"
Oh my! That's far worse than I would have guessed.
I found the source here: https://tinyurl.com/uk-numeracy
There's a former lecturer in uk.politics who is trying to assure
me university students are no less intelligent than they were 60
years ago. Yeah, right.
Unless evolution has reversed in a massive way or we're all
suffering from a mind degenerating disease it's not that we're
less intelligent it's the education system that is failing.
However, as more students than ever are going to university, the
range of intelligence encompassed must be much wider,
The additional 7% is not drawn from the same pool as existing
students but from the weaker residue.
Exactly what I was saying - students that would not have merited a
place without the increased numbers.
Okay thanks. I misread your post!
No problem.
Bob Eager
2021-09-10 09:51:15 UTC
Permalink
Post by Steve Walker
Post by Pamela
Post by Steve Walker
However, as more students than ever are going to university, the range
of intelligence encompassed must be much wider,
The additional 7% is not drawn from the same pool as existing students
but from the weaker residue.
Exactly what I was saying - students that would not have merited a place
without the increased numbers.
Indeed. I was an admissions officer for 15 years.

I wouldn't have let me in, though - 50 years ago!
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My posts are my copyright and if @diy_forums or Home Owners' Hub
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Use the BIG mirror service in the UK: http://www.mirrorservice.org
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Vir Campestris
2021-09-10 16:05:48 UTC
Permalink
Post by Pamela
The additional 7% is not drawn from the same pool as existing students
but from the weaker residue.
Where does 7% come from?

<https://www.ons.gov.uk/peoplepopulationandcommunity/birthsdeathsandmarriages/livebirths/articles/howhasthestudentpopulationchanged/2016-09-20>

AKA https://tinyurl.com/2rmjzcss

says it has doubled since 1992.

Andy
Pamela
2021-09-11 18:11:10 UTC
Permalink
Post by Vir Campestris
Post by Pamela
The additional 7% is not drawn from the same pool as existing
students but from the weaker residue.
Where does 7% come from?
<https://www.ons.gov.uk/peoplepopulationandcommunity/birthsdeathsandm
arriages/livebirths/articles/howhasthestudentpopulationchanged/2016-0
9-20>
AKA https://tinyurl.com/2rmjzcss
says it has doubled since 1992.
Andy
Seven percent is the increase of the current year over the previous one.

"Record numbers of 18-year-olds in the UK have accepted university
places this year [2021], according to updated figures from the Ucas
admissions service. There will be 272,500 of this age cohort starting
at UK universities - up by 7% on last year."

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/education-58478227

It's the broader discussion that's been about declining student standards
comparing the 1960s/1970s with today.

Interesting that the first chart in your link doesn't show any surge in
numbers after 1999, when Blair declared a target of 50% participation in
Higher Education. The biggest blip seen is for 2009, just before tuition
fees tripled. There must be another factor.
Vir Campestris
2021-09-13 20:29:04 UTC
Permalink
Post by Pamela
Seven percent is the increase of the current year over the previous one.
Ah, OK, I see.
Post by Pamela
"Record numbers of 18-year-olds in the UK have accepted university
places this year [2021], according to updated figures from the Ucas
admissions service. There will be 272,500 of this age cohort starting
at UK universities - up by 7% on last year."
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/education-58478227
I cannot imagine why anybody would want to sign up for a course at the
moment when COVID is disrupting things.

You'll get no social life and no teaching.

Best to get a job in a pub or something for a year (they are crying out
for staff) and go back when you can do it properly.
Post by Pamela
It's the broader discussion that's been about declining student standards
comparing the 1960s/1970s with today.
Interesting that the first chart in your link doesn't show any surge in
numbers after 1999, when Blair declared a target of 50% participation in
Higher Education. The biggest blip seen is for 2009, just before tuition
fees tripled. There must be another factor.
Even our kids comment on it. And we were only just in the 1970s...

Andy
Bob Eager
2021-09-13 21:23:35 UTC
Permalink
Post by Vir Campestris
Post by Pamela
Seven percent is the increase of the current year over the previous one.
Ah, OK, I see.
Post by Pamela
"Record numbers of 18-year-olds in the UK have accepted university
places this year [2021], according to updated figures from the Ucas
admissions service. There will be 272,500 of this age cohort
starting at UK universities - up by 7% on last year."
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/education-58478227
I cannot imagine why anybody would want to sign up for a course at the
moment when COVID is disrupting things.
You'll get no social life and no teaching.
Best to get a job in a pub or something for a year (they are crying out
for staff) and go back when you can do it properly.
And compete with next year's intake for a place. Universities are under
no obligation to keep the same place open.

And if you defer applying, then you are competing then and there.
--
My posts are my copyright and if @diy_forums or Home Owners' Hub
wish to copy them they can pay me £1 a message.
Use the BIG mirror service in the UK: http://www.mirrorservice.org
*lightning surge protection* - a w_tom conductor
williamwright
2021-09-09 16:39:07 UTC
Permalink
Unless evolution has reversed in a massive way or we're all suffering
from a mind degenerating disease it's not that we're less intelligent
it's the education system that is failing.
It's because society allows stupid people to breed.

Bill
Tim Streater
2021-09-09 19:00:53 UTC
Permalink
Post by williamwright
Unless evolution has reversed in a massive way or we're all suffering
from a mind degenerating disease it's not that we're less intelligent
it's the education system that is failing.
It's because society allows stupid people to breed.
I don't think that would actually make any difference. Take a population of
extra smart people and have them breed only amongst themselves, and AIUI over
some generations the median smarts would revert to the average of today.
--
"Freedom is sloppy. But since tyranny's the only guaranteed byproduct of those who insist on a perfect world, freedom will have to do." -- Bigby Wolf
72y33
2021-09-09 20:54:30 UTC
Permalink
Post by Tim Streater
Post by williamwright
Unless evolution has reversed in a massive way or we're all suffering
from a mind degenerating disease it's not that we're less intelligent
it's the education system that is failing.
It's because society allows stupid people to breed.
I don't think that would actually make any difference. Take a population of
extra smart people and have them breed only amongst themselves, and AIUI over
some generations the median smarts would revert to the average of today.
Doesn’t explain how some societies have ended up more intelligent.

But I have only just started to read
https://www.amazon.com/s?k=henrich+weirdest+people&crid=J3CHECET1GLW&sprefix=henrich%2Caps%2C392&ref=nb_sb_ss_ts-doa-p_4_7
Peeler
2021-09-09 21:13:58 UTC
Permalink
On Fri, 10 Sep 2021 06:54:30 +1000, 72y33, better known as cantankerous
trolling senile geezer Rodent Speed, wrote:

<FLUSH the abnormal trolling senile cretin's latest trollshit unread>
--
Richard about senile Rodent:
"Rod Speed, a bare faced pig and ignorant twat."
MID: <r5uoe4$1kqo$***@gioia.aioe.org>
The Natural Philosopher
2021-09-10 11:28:36 UTC
Permalink
Post by 72y33
Post by Tim Streater
I don't think that would actually make any difference. Take a
population of
extra smart people and have them breed only amongst themselves, and AIUI over
some generations the median smarts would revert to the average of today.
Doesn’t explain how some societies have ended up more intelligent.
Its all evolution.

If food is generally available except for short term famines, massive
breasts and huge buttocks will keep the mums and kids alive long enough
to die of infant diarrhoea...and polygamy will sort out things when the
males kill each other


Whereas where food supply is down to hard work and planning,
intelligence becomes more useful
--
I would rather have questions that cannot be answered...
...than to have answers that cannot be questioned

Richard Feynman
72y33
2021-09-10 21:43:08 UTC
Permalink
Post by The Natural Philosopher
Post by 72y33
Post by Tim Streater
I don't think that would actually make any difference. Take a population of
extra smart people and have them breed only amongst themselves, and AIUI over
some generations the median smarts would revert to the average of today.
Doesn’t explain how some societies have ended up more intelligent.
Its all evolution.
Its more complicated than that. The bit I have read spells out very
clearly that the rise of Protestantism with it’s approach to reading
the bible yourself lead to literacy and that in turn lead to very
measurable changes in the wiring of the brain and that lead to
the west doing all sorts of stuff the rest of the world didn’t like
the industrial revolution and before that colonies etc.

I haven't yet read it all yet so its not clear if he has an explanation
for why literacy didn’t produce the same result in China and
Japan. That may just be because their system of writing is
much harder to learn or something.
Post by The Natural Philosopher
If food is generally available except for short term famines, massive
breasts and huge buttocks will keep the mums and kids alive long enough
to die of infant diarrhoea...and polygamy will sort out things when the
males kill each other
But that has nothing to do with what we are discussing, intelligence.
Post by The Natural Philosopher
Whereas where food supply is down to hard work and planning, intelligence
becomes more useful
He does make the point that if you take a group of higher
apes and humans and provide them with no tools at all,
and let them see who survives best, the apes will win
hands down and the humans will die out.

So isn't just intelligence, its much more about passing
down the knowledge that someone has managed to
discover that has made humans so much more successful.
Peeler
2021-09-10 22:00:40 UTC
Permalink
On Sat, 11 Sep 2021 07:43:08 +1000, 72y33, better known as cantankerous
trolling senile geezer Rodent Speed, wrote:

<FLUSH the abnormal trolling senile cretin's latest trollshit unread>
--
Bod addressing abnormal senile quarreller Rot:
"Do you practice arguing with yourself in an empty room?"
MID: <***@mid.individual.net>
tim...
2021-09-10 05:19:35 UTC
Permalink
Post by Pamela
Post by alan_m
"17 million adults representing 49% of the working age population
have the numeracy skills expected of a primary school child"
Oh my! That's far worse than I would have guessed.
I found the source here: https://tinyurl.com/uk-numeracy
There's a former lecturer in uk.politics who is trying to assure me
university students are no less intelligent than they were 60 years
ago. Yeah, right.
Unless evolution has reversed in a massive way or we're all suffering
from a mind degenerating disease it's not that we're less intelligent
it's the education system that is failing.
no it's simply that the set has increased

Back in the day only the *top* 5-10% of the population went to Uni

now it's approaching 50%

It's simply arithmetic that the average ability of the set of Uni entrants
is going to be lower
Pamela
2021-09-10 09:28:34 UTC
Permalink
Post by tim...
Post by Pamela
Post by alan_m
"17 million adults representing 49% of the working age
population have the numeracy skills expected of a primary school
child"
Oh my! That's far worse than I would have guessed.
I found the source here: https://tinyurl.com/uk-numeracy
There's a former lecturer in uk.politics who is trying to assure
me university students are no less intelligent than they were 60
years ago. Yeah, right.
Unless evolution has reversed in a massive way or we're all
suffering from a mind degenerating disease it's not that we're less
intelligent it's the education system that is failing.
no it's simply that the set has increased
Back in the day only the *top* 5-10% of the population went to Uni
now it's approaching 50%
It's simply arithmetic that the average ability of the set of Uni
entrants is going to be lower
I recognise both those stats.

However someone posting in ukpm (a former maths lecturer, no less) is
saying there may not have been a drop in ability at all. {sigh}

As George Orwell wrote, "One has to belong to the intelligentsia to
believe things like that. No ordinary man could be such a fool."
whisky-dave
2021-09-10 12:27:17 UTC
Permalink
Post by alan_m
"17 million adults representing 49% of the working age population
have the numeracy skills expected of a primary school child"
Oh my! That's far worse than I would have guessed.
I found the source here: https://tinyurl.com/uk-numeracy
There's a former lecturer in uk.politics who is trying to assure me
university students are no less intelligent than they were 60 years
ago. Yeah, right.
Unless evolution has reversed in a massive way or we're all suffering
from a mind degenerating disease it's not that we're less intelligent
it's the education system that is failing.
--
Chris Green
·
That's becasue we need to see it improving via 'fake results' like better grades than the previous year(s).
Results improve as standards drop.
Rod Speed
2021-09-07 10:24:12 UTC
Permalink
And the materials used in the current batteries are dug out of the ground
and rare and expensive. I think they are going to replace Lithium with
song else soon.
No chance.
I did wonder if you could just buy the battery, and a charging circuit and
an inverter, go on the cheap overnight charging rate offered and then run
the house during the day from the battery?
Corse you can, plenty of the stupids have been doing that.
That would put the energy companies noses out of joint.
Nope, they tell you that there is no cheap overnight charging rate anymore
Post by Rod Speed
Post by Radio Man
The missus is getting green and now wants one of those poofter electric
cars. What are the arguments against it?
Stupid having to plug the damned thing in every fucking night.
Stupid price.
Stupid not having decent heating in winter.
Stupidly slow to recharge on long trips.
Post by Radio Man
Don't the batteries pack up after a few years?
Yep, so its worthless quite quickly.
Peeler
2021-09-07 12:25:56 UTC
Permalink
On Tue, 7 Sep 2021 20:24:12 +1000, cantankerous trolling geezer Rodent
Speed, the auto-contradicting senile sociopath, blabbered, again:

<FLUSH the abnormal trolling senile cretin's latest trollshit unread>
--
Marland answering senile Rodent's statement, "I don't leak":
"That’s because so much piss and shite emanates from your gob that there is
nothing left to exit normally, your arsehole has clammed shut through disuse
and the end of prick is only clear because you are such a Wanker."
Message-ID: <***@mid.individual.net>
Cursitor Doom
2021-09-07 18:05:02 UTC
Permalink
On Tue, 7 Sep 2021 08:54:18 +0100, "Brian Gaff \(Sofa\)"
Post by Brian Gaff (Sofa)
And the materials used in the current batteries are dug out of the ground
and rare and expensive. I think they are going to replace Lithium with song
else soon. I did wonder if you could just buy the battery, and a charging
circuit and an inverter, go on the cheap overnight charging rate offered and
then run the house during the day from the battery?
That would put the energy companies noses out of joint.
Brian
Quite right, Brain. Lithium technology needs to be dumped; it's really
a non-starter for extended use in heavy current-demand applications
such as vehicles. I'd wait until the alternative is implemented and we
can forget all about the nightmare of range anxiety and finding a
recharge source when out on a long run far from home. In ten years
time, we'll laugh in disbelief at the wretchedly poor capabilities of
this first generation of electric cars.
--

"The Communists are further reproached with desiring to abolish countries
and nationality."

- The Communist Manifesto, Marx & Engels
Paul
2021-09-08 00:09:08 UTC
Permalink
Post by Cursitor Doom
On Tue, 7 Sep 2021 08:54:18 +0100, "Brian Gaff \(Sofa\)"
Post by Brian Gaff (Sofa)
And the materials used in the current batteries are dug out of the ground
and rare and expensive. I think they are going to replace Lithium with song
else soon. I did wonder if you could just buy the battery, and a charging
circuit and an inverter, go on the cheap overnight charging rate offered and
then run the house during the day from the battery?
That would put the energy companies noses out of joint.
Brian
Quite right, Brain. Lithium technology needs to be dumped; it's really
a non-starter for extended use in heavy current-demand applications
such as vehicles. I'd wait until the alternative is implemented and we
can forget all about the nightmare of range anxiety and finding a
recharge source when out on a long run far from home. In ten years
time, we'll laugh in disbelief at the wretchedly poor capabilities of
this first generation of electric cars.
Have you seen the cost-reduction curve on Lithium batteries ?

Someone has been pocketing the savings.

The batteries are being improved, while you're
sitting there in your chair. Lithium batteries
have not been standing still. They have been getting
better with time.

Tesla bought the company that makes Ultracaps, and
bought them for only one reason. Their "dry process"
patent. This allows Lithium batteries to be made without
"drying ovens", which were a major energy consumer during
battery manufacture.

And it's not all Lithium Cobalt either.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lithium-titanate_battery

"This makes fast recharging possible and
provides high currents when needed."

"Proterra, in its all-electric EcoRide BE35 lightweight 35-foot bus"

The Proterra bus, the idea is, it drives for an hour. A
pantograph connects the bus roof to a power source, and
the bus charges at its depot for ten minutes. Then does
another hour-long run. This allows the bus to do a
22-hour service day. The ten minute charge does not
count as a full charge cycle, so there is some
multiplier involved there.

That bus is being trialled here. They are sampling several
buses and it's one of the candidates.

This solves the pattern one of the competitors had, where
the other bus only "worked" for a four hour pattern or
so. The service pattern did not seem conducive to running
the buses all day long, like the current diesels handle
without a problem.

The bus technology won't be going to cars, because the
number of cells required would likely leave little
room for cargo inside a car. It's not that this technology
is a replacement for Lithium Cobalt. It's an example of
designing an alternate, that makes bus schedules possible.
The bus in question, isn't all that large, so would not
be an exact replacement for a bus that is on the road
right now.

What it would do for cars, is allow fast charging every
time you charged it. Versus the "limited" fast charging
offered now. Lithium Cobalt still has it beat on
energy density.

Paul
Rod Speed
2021-09-08 02:57:51 UTC
Permalink
Post by Paul
Post by Cursitor Doom
Post by Brian Gaff (Sofa)
And the materials used in the current batteries are dug out of the
ground and rare and expensive. I think they are going to replace Lithium
with song else soon. I did wonder if you could just buy the battery,
and a charging circuit and an inverter, go on the cheap overnight
charging rate offered and then run the house during the day from the
battery?
That would put the energy companies noses out of joint.
Quite right, Brain. Lithium technology needs to be dumped; it's really
a non-starter for extended use in heavy current-demand applications
such as vehicles. I'd wait until the alternative is implemented and we
can forget all about the nightmare of range anxiety and finding a
recharge source when out on a long run far from home. In ten years
time, we'll laugh in disbelief at the wretchedly poor capabilities of
this first generation of electric cars.
Have you seen the cost-reduction curve on Lithium batteries ?
Someone has been pocketing the savings.
Nope, china is making them cheaper. Solar panels too.
Post by Paul
The batteries are being improved, while you're
sitting there in your chair. Lithium batteries
have not been standing still. They have been getting
better with time.
Tesla bought the company that makes Ultracaps, and
bought them for only one reason. Their "dry process"
patent. This allows Lithium batteries to be made without
"drying ovens", which were a major energy consumer during
battery manufacture.
And it's not all Lithium Cobalt either.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lithium-titanate_battery
"This makes fast recharging possible and
provides high currents when needed."
"Proterra, in its all-electric EcoRide BE35 lightweight 35-foot bus"
The Proterra bus, the idea is, it drives for an hour. A
pantograph connects the bus roof to a power source, and
the bus charges at its depot for ten minutes. Then does
another hour-long run. This allows the bus to do a
22-hour service day. The ten minute charge does not
count as a full charge cycle, so there is some
multiplier involved there.
That bus is being trialled here. They are sampling several
buses and it's one of the candidates.
This solves the pattern one of the competitors had, where
the other bus only "worked" for a four hour pattern or
so. The service pattern did not seem conducive to running
the buses all day long, like the current diesels handle
without a problem.
The bus technology won't be going to cars, because the
number of cells required would likely leave little
room for cargo inside a car. It's not that this technology
is a replacement for Lithium Cobalt. It's an example of
designing an alternate, that makes bus schedules possible.
The bus in question, isn't all that large, so would not
be an exact replacement for a bus that is on the road
right now.
What it would do for cars, is allow fast charging every
time you charged it. Versus the "limited" fast charging
offered now. Lithium Cobalt still has it beat on
energy density.
Paul
Peeler
2021-09-08 08:47:24 UTC
Permalink
On Wed, 8 Sep 2021 12:57:51 +1000, cantankerous trolling geezer Rodent
Speed, the auto-contradicting senile sociopath, blabbered, again:

<FLUSH the usual trollshit unread>
--
Kerr-Mudd,John addressing the auto-contradicting senile cretin:
"Auto-contradictor Rod is back! (in the KF)"
MID: <***@85.214.115.223>
alan_m
2021-09-08 09:56:48 UTC
Permalink
Post by Rod Speed
Nope, china is making them cheaper.
And with 4x the capacity per volume unit than its western competitors -
or so the labels on the batteries say :) :)
--
mailto : news {at} admac {dot} myzen {dot} co {dot} uk
The Natural Philosopher
2021-09-08 06:42:06 UTC
Permalink
Post by Cursitor Doom
Quite right, Brain. Lithium technology needs to be dumped; it's really
a non-starter for extended use in heavy current-demand applications
such as vehicles.
Its not heavy current that is te iussue

Its that extended use bit, range
Post by Cursitor Doom
I'd wait until the alternative is implemented and we
There IS no alternative
Post by Cursitor Doom
can forget all about the nightmare of range anxiety and finding a
recharge source when out on a long run far from home. In ten years
time, we'll laugh in disbelief at the wretchedly poor capabilities of
this first generation of electric cars.
There will be no second generation of chemical battery cars
--
Any fool can believe in principles - and most of them do!
newshound
2021-09-08 19:43:13 UTC
Permalink
Post by The Natural Philosopher
Post by Cursitor Doom
Quite right, Brain. Lithium technology needs to be dumped; it's really
a non-starter for extended use in heavy current-demand applications
such as vehicles.
Its not heavy current that is te iussue
Its that extended use bit, range
Post by Cursitor Doom
I'd wait until the alternative is implemented and we
There IS no alternative
Post by Cursitor Doom
can forget all about the nightmare of range anxiety and finding a
recharge source when out on a long run far from home. In ten years
time, we'll laugh in disbelief at the wretchedly poor capabilities of
this first generation of electric cars.
There will be no second generation of chemical battery cars
Chatting to my very well informed mechanic in the boozer yesterday, we
reckoned that Lithium Ion might be close to its theoretical capacity but
that nanotechnology would still be improving supercapacitors for a while
yet. He thought we might see cars with both: supercapacitors for rapid
charging, but lithium ion as the main store.

In the long term, for HGVs, we reckoned there would be some form of
"highway charging" on motorways, interstates, etc.
tony sayer
2021-09-08 20:41:54 UTC
Permalink
Post by newshound
Post by The Natural Philosopher
Post by Cursitor Doom
Quite right, Brain. Lithium technology needs to be dumped; it's really
a non-starter for extended use in heavy current-demand applications
such as vehicles.
Its not heavy current that is te iussue
Its that extended use bit, range
Post by Cursitor Doom
I'd wait until the alternative is implemented and we
There IS no alternative
Post by Cursitor Doom
can forget all about the nightmare of range anxiety and finding a
recharge source when out on a long run far from home. In ten years
time, we'll laugh in disbelief at the wretchedly poor capabilities of
this first generation of electric cars.
There will be no second generation of chemical battery cars
Chatting to my very well informed mechanic in the boozer yesterday, we
reckoned that Lithium Ion might be close to its theoretical capacity but
that nanotechnology would still be improving supercapacitors for a while
yet. He thought we might see cars with both: supercapacitors for rapid
charging, but lithium ion as the main store.
In the long term, for HGVs, we reckoned there would be some form of
"highway charging" on motorways, interstates, etc.
Yep!

Now all we have to do is get the prime power generation on the go so
more Coal stations;)....

Sorted!...
--
Tony Sayer


Man is least himself when he talks in his own person.

Give him a keyboard, and he will reveal himself.
Vir Campestris
2021-09-10 15:58:57 UTC
Permalink
Post by Brian Gaff (Sofa)
And the materials used in the current batteries are dug out of the ground
and rare and expensive. I think they are going to replace Lithium with song
else soon. I did wonder if you could just buy the battery, and a charging
circuit and an inverter, go on the cheap overnight charging rate offered and
then run the house during the day from the battery?
That would put the energy companies noses out of joint.
Brian
Tesla will do you one for £8,300. That gets you 13.5 kilowatt hours.

<https://www.tesla.com/en_gb/powerwall/design>

I know someone who has one. And solar panels. And an electric car...

Andy
David Wade
2021-09-07 07:15:42 UTC
Permalink
Post by Radio Man
The missus is getting green and now wants one of those poofter electric
cars. What are the arguments against it?
You need a smart meter to charge at a sensible price?
Post by Radio Man
Don't the batteries pack up after a few years?
Who knows. They may last longer than me...
.... plus side you don't have to worry about E10 petrol , or whatever E
number they come up with

D.
The Natural Philosopher
2021-09-07 07:59:18 UTC
Permalink
Post by David Wade
Post by Radio Man
The missus is getting green and now wants one of those poofter
electric cars. What are the arguments against it?
You need a smart meter to charge at a sensible price?
You need a divorce. It will work out cheaper in the long run.
--
"If you don’t read the news paper, you are un-informed. If you read the
news paper, you are mis-informed."

Mark Twain
tim...
2021-09-07 08:30:54 UTC
Permalink
Post by Radio Man
The missus is getting green and now wants one of those poofter electric
cars. What are the arguments against it?
that you can't afford it
Post by Radio Man
Don't the batteries pack up after a few years?
Not in any way noticeable by someone prepared to pay 30 grand for an
(otherwise) 10K run-around
Tim+
2021-09-07 08:36:20 UTC
Permalink
Post by Radio Man
The missus is getting green and now wants one of those poofter electric
cars. What are the arguments against it?
Don't the batteries pack up after a few years?
For God’s sake don’t tell her that with a smart meter and charging 4 hours
overnight at 5p/kWhr, I’ve paid a whopping £220 for 16,000 miles of
driving. That’s sure to put her off…

Tim
--
Please don't feed the trolls
Max Demian
2021-09-07 10:56:57 UTC
Permalink
Post by Radio Man
The missus is getting green and now wants one of those poofter electric
cars. What are the arguments against it?
Don't the batteries pack up after a few years?
Make sure the range is as short as possible. That's why women were
supplied with electric cars around 1900: to stop them from straying to far.
--
Max Demian
Brian Morrison
2021-09-07 12:31:36 UTC
Permalink
Post by Radio Man
What are the arguments against it?
There are many, three are:

1) risk of self-combustion which is worse than petrol/diesel/LNG

2) lugging the whole battery mass around instead of reducing mass with
usage as with petrol/diesel/LNG

3) Having your car be part of an unofficial grid energy storage scheme
where you come back to it to find it has discharged rather than charged.
This is part of the plan for the fact that the grid is unable to supply
the needs of millions of EVs.
--
Brian
whisky-dave
2021-09-07 15:50:50 UTC
Permalink
Post by Brian Morrison
Post by Radio Man
What are the arguments against it?
1) risk of self-combustion which is worse than petrol/diesel/LNG
2) lugging the whole battery mass around instead of reducing mass with
usage as with petrol/diesel/LNG
3) Having your car be part of an unofficial grid energy storage scheme
where you come back to it to find it has discharged rather than charged.
This is part of the plan for the fact that the grid is unable to supply
the needs of millions of EVs.
--
Brian
Not sure if this counts but a collegue is getting an electric car, the cheapest he can
and a charger has been installed on his property so he opened it up
and inside there's a raspberry Pi which connects to you're wifi hub.
Being in IT he thinks this is a bit of a security rsik because it would be possible to hack into the pi
and hence yuor router. This is sued so he can can cheap rate electricity.
but ti;s not exactly clear from teh manual what goes on.

So if anyone has any detailed experiences it'd be intresting to know.
What they do and whether thre's any real concern in the real world, as I'm not sure what advantage
anyone would gain from hacking into a Pi inn this situation.
Theo
2021-09-07 16:04:46 UTC
Permalink
Post by whisky-dave
Not sure if this counts but a collegue is getting an electric car, the cheapest he can
and a charger has been installed on his property so he opened it up
and inside there's a raspberry Pi which connects to you're wifi hub.
Being in IT he thinks this is a bit of a security rsik because it would be possible to hack into the pi
and hence yuor router. This is sued so he can can cheap rate electricity.
but ti;s not exactly clear from teh manual what goes on.
The Pi is a lazy way to provide the 'cloud' features, like being able to
control the charger away from home on your phone, or being able to look up
the current price of electricity and decide when to charge based on when
it's cheap. It's not a really different threat from any other bit of IoT
kit on your network, apart from the fact it's outside where people could
more easily tamper with it.
Post by whisky-dave
So if anyone has any detailed experiences it'd be intresting to know.
What they do and whether thre's any real concern in the real world, as I'm not sure what advantage
anyone would gain from hacking into a Pi inn this situation.
https://www.pentestpartners.com/security-blog/smart-car-chargers-plug-n-play-for-hackers/

If you don't want the cloud features, get a 'dumb' charger, or DIY your own
smart charger.

Theo
Michael Chare
2021-09-07 17:52:34 UTC
Permalink
Post by Radio Man
The missus is getting green and now wants one of those poofter electric
cars. What are the arguments against it?
Don't the batteries pack up after a few years?
8 years is the number I remember, though I would expect the cpacity to
decline over several years rather than suddenly become zero.

I hope that my next car can use HVO (Hydro treated Vegetable Oil.)
--
Michael Chare
Steve Walker
2021-09-07 18:38:29 UTC
Permalink
Post by Michael Chare
Post by Radio Man
The missus is getting green and now wants one of those poofter
electric cars. What are the arguments against it?
Don't the batteries pack up after a few years?
8 years is the number I remember, though I would expect the cpacity to
decline over several years rather than suddenly become zero.
At least some of the EVs have a management system that monitors how
often you fast charge. Do it too often and the facility is temporarily
disabled, to preserve the life of the battery just enough to ensure that
it gets past the battery warranty period.

Woe betide anyone buying such a car second-hand, not knowing that the
manufacturer has protected themselves from warranty claims, but in doing
so, has dramatically increased the chances of failure for the next
owner, by ensuring that the battery has been run as close as possible to
likelihood of imminent failure, while not reaching it while the
manufacturer was still liable.
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