Discussion:
DIY Tenor Guitars?
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Ottavio Caruso
2024-10-01 09:43:36 UTC
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Tenor guitar:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tenor_guitar

Tenor guitars cost a lot (compare to a standard tenor guitar) because of
lack of mass production and the quality is mediocre. I spent just under
£200 for a mediocre tenor guitar. With the same money I could have
bought a more than decent 6 string acoustic guitar.

Building a guitar from scratch is not a option, but converting a
smallish acoustic guitar into a tenor guitar could be an option.

All it takes is to change and file the nut, change or modify the bridge,
change and file the saddle.

I have been told that the tools to do that are very expensive
(especially the file).

Has anybody had a go at amateur luthiery? What would be the investment?
I am not talking of expensive CNS machines and all that jazz, just
enough to do change nut, bridge and saddle?

I don't mind investing a couple of £100s if this is coming back after a
couple of conversions.
--
Ottavio Caruso
Jethro_uk
2024-10-01 10:58:33 UTC
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Post by Ottavio Caruso
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tenor_guitar
Tenor guitars cost a lot (compare to a standard tenor guitar) because of
lack of mass production and the quality is mediocre. I spent just under
£200 for a mediocre tenor guitar. With the same money I could have
bought a more than decent 6 string acoustic guitar.
Building a guitar from scratch is not a option, but converting a
smallish acoustic guitar into a tenor guitar could be an option.
All it takes is to change and file the nut, change or modify the bridge,
change and file the saddle.
I have been told that the tools to do that are very expensive
(especially the file).
Has anybody had a go at amateur luthiery? What would be the investment?
I am not talking of expensive CNS machines and all that jazz, just
enough to do change nut, bridge and saddle?
I don't mind investing a couple of £100s if this is coming back after a
couple of conversions.
There are quite a few luthiers on YouTube ...
Graham.
2024-10-01 11:33:15 UTC
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Post by Jethro_uk
There are quite a few luthiers on
YouTube ...
I'm sure there was one on this NG.
--
Graham.
%Profound_observation%
Nick Odell
2024-10-01 20:24:05 UTC
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On Tue, 1 Oct 2024 12:33:15 +0100 (GMT+01:00), "Graham. "
Post by Graham.
Post by Jethro_uk
There are quite a few luthiers on
YouTube ...
I'm sure there was one on this NG.
I was only a professional stringed instrument maker for 49 years
before I retired so I'm still a beginner really;-)

Nick
Ottavio Caruso
2024-10-01 13:43:41 UTC
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Post by Jethro_uk
Post by Ottavio Caruso
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tenor_guitar
Tenor guitars cost a lot (compare to a standard tenor guitar) because of
lack of mass production and the quality is mediocre. I spent just under
£200 for a mediocre tenor guitar. With the same money I could have
bought a more than decent 6 string acoustic guitar.
Building a guitar from scratch is not a option, but converting a
smallish acoustic guitar into a tenor guitar could be an option.
All it takes is to change and file the nut, change or modify the bridge,
change and file the saddle.
I have been told that the tools to do that are very expensive
(especially the file).
Has anybody had a go at amateur luthiery? What would be the investment?
I am not talking of expensive CNS machines and all that jazz, just
enough to do change nut, bridge and saddle?
I don't mind investing a couple of £100s if this is coming back after a
couple of conversions.
There are quite a few luthiers on YouTube ...
Yes but I am not an upper class bastard who can trow £ 5000 on a hand
made guitar!
--
Ottavio Caruso
Nick Odell
2024-10-01 20:24:05 UTC
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Permalink
On Tue, 1 Oct 2024 14:43:41 +0100, Ottavio Caruso
Post by Ottavio Caruso
Post by Jethro_uk
Post by Ottavio Caruso
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tenor_guitar
Tenor guitars cost a lot (compare to a standard tenor guitar) because of
lack of mass production and the quality is mediocre. I spent just under
£200 for a mediocre tenor guitar. With the same money I could have
bought a more than decent 6 string acoustic guitar.
Building a guitar from scratch is not a option, but converting a
smallish acoustic guitar into a tenor guitar could be an option.
All it takes is to change and file the nut, change or modify the bridge,
change and file the saddle.
I have been told that the tools to do that are very expensive
(especially the file).
Has anybody had a go at amateur luthiery? What would be the investment?
I am not talking of expensive CNS machines and all that jazz, just
enough to do change nut, bridge and saddle?
I don't mind investing a couple of £100s if this is coming back after a
couple of conversions.
There are quite a few luthiers on YouTube ...
Yes but I am not an upper class bastard who can trow £ 5000 on a hand
made guitar!
I don't think Mr Jethro was suggesting that you should buy from those
people but that you might want to watch videos of them at work.

Nick
JNugent
2024-10-01 23:09:53 UTC
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Permalink
Post by Ottavio Caruso
Post by Jethro_uk
Post by Ottavio Caruso
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tenor_guitar
Tenor guitars cost a lot (compare to a standard tenor guitar) because of
lack of mass production and the quality is mediocre. I spent just under
£200 for a mediocre tenor guitar. With the same money I could have
bought a more than decent 6 string acoustic guitar.
Building a guitar from scratch is not a option, but converting a
smallish acoustic guitar into a tenor guitar could be an option.
All it takes is to change and file the nut, change or modify the bridge,
change and file the saddle.
I have been told that the tools to do that are very expensive
(especially the file).
Has anybody had a go at amateur luthiery? What would be the investment?
I am not talking of expensive CNS machines and all that jazz, just
enough to do change nut, bridge and saddle?
I don't mind investing a couple of £100s if this is coming back after a
couple of conversions.
There are quite a few luthiers on YouTube ...
Yes but I am not an upper class bastard who can trow £ 5000 on a hand
made guitar!
You wouldn't need to spend that much.

Quality vintage tenor guitars can be had for MUCH less than that.

How about a 1963 Gibson for £1,100 (in the UK at that)?

<https://reverb.com/marketplace?query=tenor%20guitar&product_type=acoustic-guitars>

[Scroll down]

Or a reasonable quality new instrument from about £200?
Ottavio Caruso
2024-10-02 09:26:01 UTC
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Permalink
Post by JNugent
Post by Ottavio Caruso
Post by Jethro_uk
Post by Ottavio Caruso
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tenor_guitar
Tenor guitars cost a lot (compare to a standard tenor guitar) because of
lack of mass production and the quality is mediocre. I spent just under
£200 for a mediocre tenor guitar. With the same money I could have
bought a more than decent 6 string acoustic guitar.
Building a guitar from scratch is not a option, but converting a
smallish acoustic guitar into a tenor guitar could be an option.
All it takes is to change and file the nut, change or modify the bridge,
change and file the saddle.
I have been told that the tools to do that are very expensive
(especially the file).
Has anybody had a go at amateur luthiery? What would be the investment?
I am not talking of expensive CNS machines and all that jazz, just
enough to do change nut, bridge and saddle?
I don't mind investing a couple of £100s if this is coming back after a
couple of conversions.
There are quite a few luthiers on YouTube ...
Yes but I am not an upper class bastard who can trow £ 5000 on a hand
made guitar!
You wouldn't need to spend that much.
Quality vintage tenor guitars can be had for MUCH less than that.
How about a 1963 Gibson for £1,100 (in the UK at that)?
<https://reverb.com/marketplace?query=tenor%20guitar&product_type=acoustic-guitars>
[Scroll down]
Or a reasonable quality new instrument from about £200?
They will most likely need at the very least a good setup if not a full
neck reset.
--
Ottavio Caruso
JNugent
2024-10-02 15:03:52 UTC
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Permalink
Post by Ottavio Caruso
Post by JNugent
Post by Ottavio Caruso
Post by Jethro_uk
Post by Ottavio Caruso
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tenor_guitar
Tenor guitars cost a lot (compare to a standard tenor guitar) because of
lack of mass production and the quality is mediocre. I spent just under
£200 for a mediocre tenor guitar. With the same money I could have
bought a more than decent 6 string acoustic guitar.
Building a guitar from scratch is not a option, but converting a
smallish acoustic guitar into a tenor guitar could be an option.
All it takes is to change and file the nut, change or modify the bridge,
change and file the saddle.
I have been told that the tools to do that are very expensive
(especially the file).
Has anybody had a go at amateur luthiery? What would be the investment?
I am not talking of expensive CNS machines and all that jazz, just
enough to do change nut, bridge and saddle?
I don't mind investing a couple of £100s if this is coming back after a
couple of conversions.
There are quite a few luthiers on YouTube ...
Yes but I am not an upper class bastard who can trow £ 5000 on a hand
made guitar!
You wouldn't need to spend that much.
Quality vintage tenor guitars can be had for MUCH less than that.
How about a 1963 Gibson for £1,100 (in the UK at that)?
<https://reverb.com/marketplace?query=tenor%20guitar&product_type=acoustic-guitars>
[Scroll down]
Or a reasonable quality new instrument from about £200?
They will most likely need at the very least a good setup if not a full
neck reset.
A vintage flat-top instrument could well require that sort of major
attention. But you either want one or you don't. Either position is fair
enough.

New instruments from respected factories and importers should NOT need
anything like such drastic intervention. If a neck reset were necessary,
the instrument should be returned for a replacement swap-out.

Acoustic guitars only start getting reasonable in action and sound at
(approximately) the £200 mark. As I am sure you are aware, a USA-made
instrument would be at least £1,000 for an entry-level item.
No mail
2024-10-01 11:06:31 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by Ottavio Caruso
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tenor_guitar
Tenor guitars cost a lot (compare to a standard tenor guitar) because of
lack of mass production and the quality is mediocre. I spent just under
£200 for a mediocre tenor guitar. With the same money I could have
bought a more than decent 6 string acoustic guitar.
Building a guitar from scratch is not a option, but converting a
smallish acoustic guitar into a tenor guitar could be an option.
All it takes is to change and file the nut, change or modify the bridge,
change and file the saddle.
I have been told that the tools to do that are very expensive
(especially the file).
Has anybody had a go at amateur luthiery? What would be the investment?
I am not talking of expensive CNS machines and all that jazz, just
enough to do change nut, bridge and saddle?
I don't mind investing a couple of £100s if this is coming back after a
couple of conversions.
I've made several instruments, including a rather nice Tenor Guitar. All
you need (apart from the wood, strings and hardware) are: some drawings,
a bending iron, something to thickness the timber, a Japanese pull saw,
fret files, nut files, lots of small clamps ... can't think of much else
that isn't "standard". You would make the mould and the rest of the jigs
as you went along.
Converting a standard steel-string guitar might not be acoustically
optimum and the neck would be a bit wide - you'd need to think about
scale length too.
There seem to be plenty of cheap'ish TGs available - check Thomann, for
example.
Nick Odell
2024-10-01 20:24:05 UTC
Reply
Permalink
On Tue, 1 Oct 2024 10:43:36 +0100, Ottavio Caruso
Post by Ottavio Caruso
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tenor_guitar
Tenor guitars cost a lot (compare to a standard tenor guitar) because of
lack of mass production and the quality is mediocre. I spent just under
£200 for a mediocre tenor guitar. With the same money I could have
bought a more than decent 6 string acoustic guitar.
Building a guitar from scratch is not a option, but converting a
smallish acoustic guitar into a tenor guitar could be an option.
All it takes is to change and file the nut, change or modify the bridge,
change and file the saddle.
I have been told that the tools to do that are very expensive
(especially the file).
Has anybody had a go at amateur luthiery? What would be the investment?
I am not talking of expensive CNS machines and all that jazz, just
enough to do change nut, bridge and saddle?
I don't mind investing a couple of £100s if this is coming back after a
couple of conversions.
I think you might be, as we English like to say, "putting the cart
before the horse." Good tools won't turn you into a talented craftsman
any more than a good pair of football boots will make you a soccer
superstar but if you have basic competency with woodworking tools and
the confidence to use them then the specialist equipment can come
later.

You never really answered some of my questions when you brought up
this subject before and to be honest those answers are more than
somewhat germain to moving forward on this. Care to revisit them?

As nomail suggested in <***@mid.individual.net> you are
unlikely to be satisfied by trying to convert something that began
life as something different but if you really don't want to start from
scratch a robust rebuild of a poor quality or badly built original
could give you an instrument to enjoy. If you have built up other
craft skills you can do it, even if you've never specifically worked
on instruments before. With imagination you can use those tools you
already have access to in order to achieve most of the work and can
make or adapt most of the others. (eg Nut files are great - I have
loads of them - but a ground-down junior hacksaw blade will get you
out of trouble with nut slots most of the time. Etc. Etc.)

YouTube videos are excellent if that's your preferred way of learning
but visiting makers in their workshops taught me a lot. The London
College of Furniture Musical Instrument Making course is long gone but
its students and teachers are still working all over London and
beyond. Go and see some of them.

Finally, being in the company of people who are doing craft for
enjoyment can be a great experience as you all teach and learn
together. Although FE Evening classes in woodwork etc are mostly
something from the past (I used to teach instrument making at an
evening class in the Tec in Southend-on-Sea) U3A has all sorts of
opportunities all over the place and it doesn't matter if you are not
a pensioner yet but absolutely fine if you are.

Nick
Ottavio Caruso
2024-10-02 09:23:23 UTC
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Post by Nick Odell
you are
unlikely to be satisfied by trying to convert something that began
life as something different
The tenor guitar started literally by sticking a tenor banjo neck onto a
standard guitar body, so, yes, you can inject new life into something
that began as something different.

The guitar itself began as a modification of the lute.
--
Ottavio Caruso
No mail
2024-10-02 09:59:15 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by Nick Odell
On Tue, 1 Oct 2024 10:43:36 +0100, Ottavio Caruso
Post by Ottavio Caruso
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tenor_guitar
Tenor guitars cost a lot (compare to a standard tenor guitar) because of
lack of mass production and the quality is mediocre. I spent just under
£200 for a mediocre tenor guitar. With the same money I could have
bought a more than decent 6 string acoustic guitar.
Building a guitar from scratch is not a option, but converting a
smallish acoustic guitar into a tenor guitar could be an option.
All it takes is to change and file the nut, change or modify the bridge,
change and file the saddle.
I have been told that the tools to do that are very expensive
(especially the file).
Has anybody had a go at amateur luthiery? What would be the investment?
I am not talking of expensive CNS machines and all that jazz, just
enough to do change nut, bridge and saddle?
I don't mind investing a couple of £100s if this is coming back after a
couple of conversions.
I think you might be, as we English like to say, "putting the cart
before the horse." Good tools won't turn you into a talented craftsman
any more than a good pair of football boots will make you a soccer
superstar but if you have basic competency with woodworking tools and
the confidence to use them then the specialist equipment can come
later.
You never really answered some of my questions when you brought up
this subject before and to be honest those answers are more than
somewhat germain to moving forward on this. Care to revisit them?
unlikely to be satisfied by trying to convert something that began
life as something different but if you really don't want to start from
scratch a robust rebuild of a poor quality or badly built original
could give you an instrument to enjoy. If you have built up other
craft skills you can do it, even if you've never specifically worked
on instruments before. With imagination you can use those tools you
already have access to in order to achieve most of the work and can
make or adapt most of the others. (eg Nut files are great - I have
loads of them - but a ground-down junior hacksaw blade will get you
out of trouble with nut slots most of the time. Etc. Etc.)
YouTube videos are excellent if that's your preferred way of learning
but visiting makers in their workshops taught me a lot. The London
College of Furniture Musical Instrument Making course is long gone but
its students and teachers are still working all over London and
beyond. Go and see some of them.
Finally, being in the company of people who are doing craft for
enjoyment can be a great experience as you all teach and learn
together. Although FE Evening classes in woodwork etc are mostly
something from the past (I used to teach instrument making at an
evening class in the Tec in Southend-on-Sea) U3A has all sorts of
opportunities all over the place and it doesn't matter if you are not
a pensioner yet but absolutely fine if you are.
Nick
I can highly recommend the short instrument-making courses at West Dean.
When accommodation is added-in they aren't cheap, and the West Dean
"experience" (food, staff, access to workshops, bar stocks) is not what
it was a few years ago, but it's still a great place to spend time.
More info here:
https://www.westdean.ac.uk/short-courses/courses?category=Musical+Instrument+Making
JNugent
2024-10-01 23:05:46 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by Ottavio Caruso
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tenor_guitar
Tenor guitars cost a lot (compare to a standard tenor guitar) because of
lack of mass production and the quality is mediocre. I spent just under
£200 for a mediocre tenor guitar. With the same money I could have
bought a more than decent 6 string acoustic guitar.
Building a guitar from scratch is not a option, but converting a
smallish acoustic guitar into a tenor guitar could be an option.
All it takes is to change and file the nut, change or modify the bridge,
change and file the saddle.
I have been told that the tools to do that are very expensive
(especially the file).
Has anybody had a go at amateur luthiery? What would be the investment?
I am not talking of expensive CNS machines and all that jazz, just
enough to do change nut, bridge and saddle?
I don't mind investing a couple of £100s if this is coming back after a
couple of conversions.
At a pinch, no mods are necessary.

Simply restring the instrument with the four strings of your choice,
omitting the two E strings.
Ottavio Caruso
2024-10-02 09:24:18 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by JNugent
Post by Ottavio Caruso
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tenor_guitar
Tenor guitars cost a lot (compare to a standard tenor guitar) because
of lack of mass production and the quality is mediocre. I spent just
under £200 for a mediocre tenor guitar. With the same money I could
have bought a more than decent 6 string acoustic guitar.
Building a guitar from scratch is not a option, but converting a
smallish acoustic guitar into a tenor guitar could be an option.
All it takes is to change and file the nut, change or modify the
bridge, change and file the saddle.
I have been told that the tools to do that are very expensive
(especially the file).
Has anybody had a go at amateur luthiery? What would be the
investment? I am not talking of expensive CNS machines and all that
jazz, just enough to do change nut, bridge and saddle?
I don't mind investing a couple of £100s if this is coming back after
a couple of conversions.
At a pinch, no mods are necessary.
Simply restring the instrument with the four strings of your choice,
omitting the two E strings.
Well, Sir, no!
--
Ottavio Caruso
jkn
2024-10-02 16:17:45 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by Ottavio Caruso
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tenor_guitar
Tenor guitars cost a lot (compare to a standard tenor guitar) because of
lack of mass production and the quality is mediocre. I spent just under
£200 for a mediocre tenor guitar. With the same money I could have
bought a more than decent 6 string acoustic guitar.
Building a guitar from scratch is not a option, but converting a
smallish acoustic guitar into a tenor guitar could be an option.
All it takes is to change and file the nut, change or modify the bridge,
change and file the saddle.
I have been told that the tools to do that are very expensive
(especially the file).
Has anybody had a go at amateur luthiery? What would be the investment?
I am not talking of expensive CNS machines and all that jazz, just
enough to do change nut, bridge and saddle?
I don't mind investing a couple of £100s if this is coming back after a
couple of conversions.
I thought I had written a reply here, but it hasn't shown up. A couple
of points:

- use a feeler gauge and cut slots in the appropriate 'leaf' to make
saws of the thickness matching the string
- then polish out with folded emery cloth or similar
- don't buy the ultra-cheap 'nut files' that are on eBay for a fiver or
so. They are worse than useless

I have fettled a few instruments, including some high quality ones, with
this kind of method.

HTH
J^n

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