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Ping Theo: Home Assistant and clocks:
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T i m
2021-01-13 13:43:02 UTC
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Firstly I'd like to thank Theo for giving me the confirmation re Home
Assistant as being a good Home Automation solution.

I have numerous devices here (22) all doing stuff now and it's going
well so far (HA is a very powerful solution so there is a lot to
learn). It also monitors our two smart phones (battery charge and
charging type, location) and my Synology NAS (CPU and shared space)
etc.

One important thing I can't seem to crack is the timings applied to
some of the logs / history of devices.

Like, I have a dehumidifier set to turn on at 10:30 (smart socket) if
the humidity is above 50% (Sonoff T/H sensor) and to turn off at
midnight. It does all that fine and I can see the humidity going down
over the day from the graph.

The 'problem' is the history of the switch or annotation on the graph
suggest it comes on at 11:30 and goes off at 01:00.

Now whilst I can make the adjustment in my head, it's a PITA and I
have looked into it all but am yet to pin down a solution (or even
sure there is one)?

(Theo), are you running hass.io / HA, have you seen this issue and
resolved it please, or if you haven't seen it, any idea what the
solution could be please?

The question has been asked several times on the forum but I haven't
seen a reply / solution that I understand how to implement?

Cheers, T i m
Tricky Dicky
2021-01-13 14:02:34 UTC
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Post by T i m
Firstly I'd like to thank Theo for giving me the confirmation re Home
Assistant as being a good Home Automation solution.
I have numerous devices here (22) all doing stuff now and it's going
well so far (HA is a very powerful solution so there is a lot to
learn). It also monitors our two smart phones (battery charge and
charging type, location) and my Synology NAS (CPU and shared space)
etc.
One important thing I can't seem to crack is the timings applied to
some of the logs / history of devices.
Like, I have a dehumidifier set to turn on at 10:30 (smart socket) if
the humidity is above 50% (Sonoff T/H sensor) and to turn off at
midnight. It does all that fine and I can see the humidity going down
over the day from the graph.
The 'problem' is the history of the switch or annotation on the graph
suggest it comes on at 11:30 and goes off at 01:00.
Now whilst I can make the adjustment in my head, it's a PITA and I
have looked into it all but am yet to pin down a solution (or even
sure there is one)?
(Theo), are you running hass.io / HA, have you seen this issue and
resolved it please, or if you haven't seen it, any idea what the
solution could be please?
The question has been asked several times on the forum but I haven't
seen a reply / solution that I understand how to implement?
Cheers, T i m
Hi Tim

Just a query about the Sonoff T/H, can it be used to measure the dew point? I am hoping to make a start on my man cave at the back of the garage and because there will be electronic equipment and paper items stored there I need to monitor the dew point when it is not in use and raise the temperature as the dew point is reached to prevent condensation. I only need to be able to raise the temperature and hold above the dew point.

Regards
Richard
T i m
2021-01-13 15:42:04 UTC
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On Wed, 13 Jan 2021 06:02:34 -0800 (PST), Tricky Dicky
<snip>
Hi Tim
Yo.
Just a query about the Sonoff T/H, can it be used to measure the dew point?
I'm not aware of one that obvious and not sure if what you want could
be calculated from temperature and RH?

I know dew point can be 'measured' but not sure if these basic (and
cheap) sensors would be able to do so.

https://sonoff.tech/product/smart-home-security/snzb-02
I am hoping to make a start on my man cave at the back of the garage and because there will be electronic equipment and paper items stored there I need to monitor the dew point when it is not in use and raise the temperature as the dew point is reached to prevent condensation. I only need to be able to raise the temperature and hold above the dew point.
Would a dehumidifier (with built in humidistat) be the better option
in any case, possibly alongside a background level heater, to stop
the dehumidifier from freezing up too often?

Cheers. T i m
Theo
2021-01-13 17:02:56 UTC
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Post by T i m
On Wed, 13 Jan 2021 06:02:34 -0800 (PST), Tricky Dicky
<snip>
Hi Tim
Yo.
Just a query about the Sonoff T/H, can it be used to measure the dew point?
I'm not aware of one that obvious and not sure if what you want could
be calculated from temperature and RH?
Using the formula from wikipedia:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dew_point#Simple_approximation
Post by T i m
T=8.28 # degreesC
RH=82.31 # percent
b = 18.678
c = 257.14
gamma = math.log(RH/100) + (b*T)/(c+T)
Tdp = c*gamma / (b-gamma)
print(Tdp)
5.45488691615

ie dew point of 5.5C. Does that sound plausible?

Theo
Rod Speed
2021-01-13 20:50:36 UTC
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Post by T i m
On Wed, 13 Jan 2021 06:02:34 -0800 (PST), Tricky Dicky
<snip>
Hi Tim
Yo.
Just a query about the Sonoff T/H, can it be used to measure the dew point?
I'm not aware of one that obvious and not sure if what
you want could be calculated from temperature and RH?
Yes it can.
Post by T i m
I know dew point can be 'measured' but not sure if these
basic (and cheap) sensors would be able to do so.
https://sonoff.tech/product/smart-home-security/snzb-02
I am hoping to make a start on my man cave at the back of the garage and
because there will be electronic equipment and paper items stored there I
need to monitor the dew point when it is not in use and raise the
temperature as the dew point is reached to prevent condensation. I only
need to be able to raise the temperature and hold above the dew point.
Would a dehumidifier (with built in humidistat) be the better option
in any case, possibly alongside a background level heater, to stop
the dehumidifier from freezing up too often?
Cheers. T i m
Peeler
2021-01-13 21:38:13 UTC
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<FLUSH more senile trollshit unread>
--
***@down.the.farm about senile Rot Speed:
"This is like having a conversation with someone with brain damage."
MID: <ps10v9$uo2$***@gioia.aioe.org>
Theo
2021-01-13 14:07:18 UTC
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Post by T i m
The 'problem' is the history of the switch or annotation on the graph
suggest it comes on at 11:30 and goes off at 01:00.
Now whilst I can make the adjustment in my head, it's a PITA and I
have looked into it all but am yet to pin down a solution (or even
sure there is one)?
That sounds like a timezone issue - either wrong timezone or something
thinks it's in BST when it isn't. Is the time zone of the Pi set correctly,
and the timezone in Home Assistant?
Post by T i m
(Theo), are you running hass.io / HA, have you seen this issue and
resolved it please, or if you haven't seen it, any idea what the
solution could be please?
I haven't noticed it - you'll have to look around the forum to see if
there's any insights.

Theo
T i m
2021-01-13 15:26:17 UTC
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On 13 Jan 2021 14:07:18 +0000 (GMT), Theo
Post by Theo
Post by T i m
The 'problem' is the history of the switch or annotation on the graph
suggest it comes on at 11:30 and goes off at 01:00.
Now whilst I can make the adjustment in my head, it's a PITA and I
have looked into it all but am yet to pin down a solution (or even
sure there is one)?
That sounds like a timezone issue - either wrong timezone or something
thinks it's in BST when it isn't.
That was my first check and it comes up (in HA) as Europe/London. I
think this in turn is taken from the map and (I think) that was
determined automatically from 'Location' (ip address etc) (and is
correct).

I have tried setting it to a timezone that is one hour behind (in the
GUI), it doesn't stick.
Post by Theo
Is the time zone of the Pi set correctly,
The best answer I can give to that is it's set correctly if I access
the terminal and type 'date'. I used the terminal addon.
Post by Theo
and the timezone in Home Assistant?
Yes. All the automations are correctly timed.
Post by Theo
Post by T i m
(Theo), are you running hass.io / HA, have you seen this issue and
resolved it please, or if you haven't seen it, any idea what the
solution could be please?
I haven't noticed it - you'll have to look around the forum to see if
there's any insights.
I have but none have been any use as yet as I'm not sure where to look
... as it doesn't seem to be out where I have looked so far (and I'm
not the only one suffering the issue).

Is your HA running on a RPi and via hass.io or is it installed
directly on a Linux?

Cheers, T i m
Theo
2021-01-13 15:57:43 UTC
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Post by T i m
Is your HA running on a RPi and via hass.io or is it installed
directly on a Linux?
It's a Pi 3, but installed via Docker not via hass.io. That means I get a
'proper' terminal, instead of the walled garden hass.io gives you.
(which is fine as an 'appliance' but not if you want to do other things)

My History view is very slow, so it might be time to move to a proper USB
SSD, instead of a random SD card. When it eventually shows up it looks like
it is doing the right timestamps. System timezone is set to UTC.

Theo
T i m
2021-01-13 16:37:10 UTC
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On 13 Jan 2021 15:57:43 +0000 (GMT), Theo
Post by Theo
Post by T i m
Is your HA running on a RPi and via hass.io or is it installed
directly on a Linux?
It's a Pi 3, but installed via Docker not via hass.io.
Ah, ok, thanks (but isn't hass.io 'a docker', but you are saying it's
not the product 'docker')?
Post by Theo
That means I get a
'proper' terminal, instead of the walled garden hass.io gives you.
Erm. Do we know that to be the case Theo? eg, is there not an
interface in the hass.io 'docker' that gives you access to the
subsystem (hypervisor of some sort)? If there isn't, could it be that
it's set to UTC in any case (as the feedback I've read seems to
suggest most servers / system might be in any case)? JUst asking etc.
Post by Theo
(which is fine as an 'appliance' but not if you want to do other things)
Understood. FWIW, I've just installed, enabled , accessed HA on my
Synology NAS and will see if the USB TI coordinator is picked up by
that.
Post by Theo
My History view is very slow, so it might be time to move to a proper USB
SSD, instead of a random SD card.
Understood, same here (especially over an extended timeperiod).
Post by Theo
When it eventually shows up it looks like
it is doing the right timestamps. System timezone is set to UTC.
Hmm.

I had no technical reason for installing HA the way I did, other than
the general instructions seemed to suggest it was the most
straightforward and durable / efficient way?

So did you install Linux on your RPi, then Docker and then imported
the docker image downloaded from the links in the HA site?

If the whole installation was a straight image I think I would be keen
to give that a go, especially if you are happy with it (and as long as
it didn't require much in the way of Linux expertise)?

Alternatively, I could look to installing HA under Virtual box on a
straight Linux image on a 'silent' slimline Shuttle mini PC (assuming
the Synology NAS solution doesn't work out as viable).

Cheers, T i m
Theo
2021-01-13 22:25:21 UTC
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Post by T i m
On 13 Jan 2021 15:57:43 +0000 (GMT), Theo
Post by Theo
Post by T i m
Is your HA running on a RPi and via hass.io or is it installed
directly on a Linux?
It's a Pi 3, but installed via Docker not via hass.io.
Ah, ok, thanks (but isn't hass.io 'a docker', but you are saying it's
not the product 'docker')?
hass.io is a Pi distro that has a minimal Linux install and everything else
runs in Docker containers. That means outside of Docker there isn't much
installed.

I like to have a 'full' Linux distro with all the usual tools. Then I've
installed Home Assistant's Docker setup on top. This is unsupported, and
means I need to do upgrades via Docker not via the GUI. But I have a
more flexible environment (for general tinkering, eg for backups via SSH).
Post by T i m
Erm. Do we know that to be the case Theo? eg, is there not an
interface in the hass.io 'docker' that gives you access to the
subsystem (hypervisor of some sort)? If there isn't, could it be that
it's set to UTC in any case (as the feedback I've read seems to
suggest most servers / system might be in any case)? JUst asking etc.
Usually system time is set to UTC, but there's a user-facing timezone.
Post by T i m
Understood. FWIW, I've just installed, enabled , accessed HA on my
Synology NAS and will see if the USB TI coordinator is picked up by
that.
You would likely need to pass through the /dev/tty-whatever device node to
the Docker container. That's probably feasible, although depends what
config Synology offers.
Post by T i m
I had no technical reason for installing HA the way I did, other than
the general instructions seemed to suggest it was the most
straightforward and durable / efficient way?
I think you used hass.io by flashing the SD card for a Pi? I would stick
with that - it's the best supported option. No reason you can't do
something else, but until you have a good reason and a willingness to debug
things I'd stick with the mainstream.

Theo
T i m
2021-01-13 22:53:16 UTC
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On 13 Jan 2021 22:25:21 +0000 (GMT), Theo
<theom+***@chiark.greenend.org.uk> wrote:

<snip>
Post by Theo
Post by T i m
Post by Theo
It's a Pi 3, but installed via Docker not via hass.io.
Ah, ok, thanks (but isn't hass.io 'a docker', but you are saying it's
not the product 'docker')?
hass.io is a Pi distro that has a minimal Linux install and everything else
runs in Docker containers. That means outside of Docker there isn't much
installed.
Ok...
Post by Theo
I like to have a 'full' Linux distro with all the usual tools. Then I've
installed Home Assistant's Docker setup on top. This is unsupported, and
means I need to do upgrades via Docker not via the GUI.
Ah.
Post by Theo
But I have a
more flexible environment (for general tinkering, eg for backups via SSH).
Understood. As you say, for me and now an 'appliance is probably best.
;-)
Post by Theo
Post by T i m
Erm. Do we know that to be the case Theo? eg, is there not an
interface in the hass.io 'docker' that gives you access to the
subsystem (hypervisor of some sort)? If there isn't, could it be that
it's set to UTC in any case (as the feedback I've read seems to
suggest most servers / system might be in any case)? JUst asking etc.
Usually system time is set to UTC, but there's a user-facing timezone.
I've been playing with timezone as seen in Configuration > General but
whilst I can change the apparent time of my Desktop, I can't seem to
change the time of things as seen by the history / logs.

eg. If it's 19:50 and I set an automation to toggle a light on a smart
socket at 20:00, the light toggles at 20:00 but the log says it
happened one hour in the future, at 21:00 ;-(
Post by Theo
Post by T i m
Understood. FWIW, I've just installed, enabled , accessed HA on my
Synology NAS and will see if the USB TI coordinator is picked up by
that.
You would likely need to pass through the /dev/tty-whatever device node to
the Docker container. That's probably feasible, although depends what
config Synology offers.
I installed HA on the Synology NAS ok but it won't seem to install the
Zigbee appliance (just seems to hang with a spinning wheel) so I
assume my little Synology NAS isn't up to it. ;-(
Post by Theo
Post by T i m
I had no technical reason for installing HA the way I did, other than
the general instructions seemed to suggest it was the most
straightforward and durable / efficient way?
I think you used hass.io by flashing the SD card for a Pi?
Correct. Boot, it installs / updates itself and then is ready to rock.
;-)
Post by Theo
I would stick
with that - it's the best supported option.
Understood.
Post by Theo
No reason you can't do
something else, but until you have a good reason and a willingness to debug
things I'd stick with the mainstream.
Agreed, it's just that this issue is very frustrating. Part of the
point of Home Automation for me is that you can 'manage what you can
measure'. So what would be nice is to go to the log / history of a
smart switch or sensor and associate the display with an even, like
the humidity not falling as expected because the tank wasn't replaced
properly and it didn't start properly.

At the moment I can simply subtract 1 hour from the times indicated in
the log but it would be nice (and I don't think it's unreasonable,
technically, given how flexible HA is) that I can't achieve what I
expect?

I'm hoping a programmer friend I know (here) who has a RPi will
install HA via hass.io for me soon and help me resolve it. ;-)

Cheers, T i m

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