Discussion:
Chemists & household chemicals
(too old to reply)
Egremont
2005-07-15 12:19:14 UTC
Permalink
According to the news, the bombs used in London were constructed from
chemicals obtainable from high street Chemists.

Well, of late I've tried to get stuff like ammonia for cleaning and, more
optomistically, dilute HCL for de-scaling and just got a look of bemusement
from behind the counter. I came to the conclusion that the old fashioned
Chemist doesn't exist any more -they are now Pharamacies selling drugs, cold
cures and the like but not household chemicals.

Does some Chemists actually still sell old-fashioned cleaning agents, meths,
paraffin, ammonia and the like thesedays?.

Egremont
Jon
2005-07-15 12:24:19 UTC
Permalink
Paraffin I've managed to get from (some) garages, not chemists though.
No idea about other agents... Isn't most nail varnish remover ammonia,
though, or is that too dilute (or expensive) a solution for cleaning?

Jon
Alastair
2005-07-15 12:31:33 UTC
Permalink
Nail varnish remover is acetone I think.
raden
2005-07-15 15:55:21 UTC
Permalink
Post by Jon
Paraffin I've managed to get from (some) garages, not chemists though.
No idea about other agents... Isn't most nail varnish remover ammonia,
acetone
Post by Jon
though, or is that too dilute (or expensive) a solution for cleaning?
Jon
--
geoff
PC Paul
2005-07-15 12:31:50 UTC
Permalink
Post by Egremont
According to the news, the bombs used in London were constructed from
chemicals obtainable from high street Chemists.
Well, of late I've tried to get stuff like ammonia for cleaning and, more
optomistically, dilute HCL for de-scaling and just got a look of bemusement
from behind the counter. I came to the conclusion that the old fashioned
Chemist doesn't exist any more -they are now Pharamacies selling drugs, cold
cures and the like but not household chemicals.
Does some Chemists actually still sell old-fashioned cleaning agents, meths,
paraffin, ammonia and the like thesedays?.
Have you tried buying citric acid for descaling recently - you get a right
dirty look because apparently it's used for cutting drugs...
Stuart Noble
2005-07-15 13:11:00 UTC
Permalink
Post by PC Paul
Post by Egremont
According to the news, the bombs used in London were constructed from
chemicals obtainable from high street Chemists.
Well, of late I've tried to get stuff like ammonia for cleaning and, more
optomistically, dilute HCL for de-scaling and just got a look of bemusement
from behind the counter. I came to the conclusion that the old fashioned
Chemist doesn't exist any more -they are now Pharamacies selling drugs, cold
cures and the like but not household chemicals.
Does some Chemists actually still sell old-fashioned cleaning agents, meths,
paraffin, ammonia and the like thesedays?.
Have you tried buying citric acid for descaling recently - you get a right
dirty look because apparently it's used for cutting drugs...
It's also used to make kiddies bath bombs (whatever they are) so no need
to look sheepish.
Bob Eager
2005-07-15 14:09:15 UTC
Permalink
Post by PC Paul
Have you tried buying citric acid for descaling recently - you get a right
dirty look because apparently it's used for cutting drugs...
No problem round here. One place refused to sell me more than two
packets at once, mind, and got very huffy.
Chip
2005-07-15 14:36:13 UTC
Permalink
On 15 Jul 2005 14:09:15 GMT,it is alleged that "Bob Eager"
Post by Bob Eager
Post by PC Paul
Have you tried buying citric acid for descaling recently - you get a right
dirty look because apparently it's used for cutting drugs...
No problem round here. One place refused to sell me more than two
packets at once, mind, and got very huffy.
Wow, the things you miss by not being a druggie. <g>
I use citric acid and/or HCl for descaling regularly.

BTW, places that deal with swimming pools should be able to source
hydrochloric acid fairly cheaply. Better deal than 'patio cleaner'
(It'll need dilution before use for that purpose though).
--
"Anyone who is capable of getting themselves made President should on
*no* account be allowed to do the job."
- The Hitchhiker's Guide to the Galaxy
Dave Plowman (News)
2005-07-15 15:56:12 UTC
Permalink
Post by Chip
Post by Bob Eager
No problem round here. One place refused to sell me more than two
packets at once, mind, and got very huffy.
Wow, the things you miss by not being a druggie. <g>
Don't think they're used by a druggie, but by a dealer to 'cut' the drug
into larger but weaker portions to increase profits. A bit like watering
beer. ;-)
--
*Why do overlook and oversee mean opposite things?

Dave Plowman ***@davenoise.co.uk London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.
Ian
2005-07-15 19:07:11 UTC
Permalink
"Dave Plowman (News)" <***@davenoise.co.uk> wrote in message news:***@davenoise.co.uk...
| In article <***@news.virgin.net>,
| Chip <***@excite.com> wrote:
| > >No problem round here. One place refused to sell me more than two
| > >packets at once, mind, and got very huffy.
| > >
| > Wow, the things you miss by not being a druggie. <g>
|
| Don't think they're used by a druggie, but by a dealer to 'cut' the drug
| into larger but weaker portions to increase profits. A bit like watering
| beer. ;-)
| ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Possibly, but according to
http://saferinjecting.org/citric/citric%20pdfs/citric_briefing.pdf
"In order to inject brown heroin or crack cocaine an acid must be added to
make the drug dissolve.
Anxieties amongst pharmacists and shopkeepers have led to severe
restrictions in the supply of citric acid in some areas. The consequence
of this has been an increase in the use of lemon juice and vinegar as
acidifiers, despite the additional risks that are associated with the use
of these substances."

The anxiety to pharmacists stemmed from the threat that the Royal
Pharmaceutical Society might take action against them if they were selling
the stuff and it got used for this purpose, so many just stopped - it was
simpler. Users found it easier to buy it from home wine-making outlets.


Ian
PC Paul
2005-07-15 19:47:50 UTC
Permalink
Post by Ian
| > >No problem round here. One place refused to sell me more than two
| > >packets at once, mind, and got very huffy.
| > >
| > Wow, the things you miss by not being a druggie. <g>
|
| Don't think they're used by a druggie, but by a dealer to 'cut' the drug
| into larger but weaker portions to increase profits. A bit like watering
| beer. ;-)
| ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Possibly, but according to
http://saferinjecting.org/citric/citric%20pdfs/citric_briefing.pdf
"In order to inject brown heroin or crack cocaine an acid must be added to
make the drug dissolve.
Anxieties amongst pharmacists and shopkeepers have led to severe
restrictions in the supply of citric acid in some areas. The consequence
of this has been an increase in the use of lemon juice and vinegar as
acidifiers, despite the additional risks that are associated with the use
of these substances."
The anxiety to pharmacists stemmed from the threat that the Royal
Pharmaceutical Society might take action against them if they were selling
the stuff and it got used for this purpose, so many just stopped - it was
simpler. Users found it easier to buy it from home wine-making outlets.
Well found, Sir!

Nice to know why.
Chip
2005-07-15 19:58:01 UTC
Permalink
On Fri, 15 Jul 2005 19:47:50 GMT,it is alleged that "PC Paul"
Post by PC Paul
Post by Ian
| > >No problem round here. One place refused to sell me more than two
| > >packets at once, mind, and got very huffy.
| > >
| > Wow, the things you miss by not being a druggie. <g>
|
| Don't think they're used by a druggie, but by a dealer to 'cut' the drug
| into larger but weaker portions to increase profits. A bit like watering
| beer. ;-)
| ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Possibly, but according to
http://saferinjecting.org/citric/citric%20pdfs/citric_briefing.pdf
"In order to inject brown heroin or crack cocaine an acid must be added to
make the drug dissolve.
Anxieties amongst pharmacists and shopkeepers have led to severe
restrictions in the supply of citric acid in some areas. The consequence
of this has been an increase in the use of lemon juice and vinegar as
acidifiers, despite the additional risks that are associated with the use
of these substances."
The anxiety to pharmacists stemmed from the threat that the Royal
Pharmaceutical Society might take action against them if they were selling
the stuff and it got used for this purpose, so many just stopped - it was
simpler. Users found it easier to buy it from home wine-making outlets.
Well found, Sir!
Nice to know why.
Yeesh, liability society.

Sad really, "no, we won't supply you with a bottle of mineral water in
case you decide to inhale it and drown".
--
"Anyone who is capable of getting themselves made President should on
*no* account be allowed to do the job."
- The Hitchhiker's Guide to the Galaxy
mike ring
2005-07-15 21:58:51 UTC
Permalink
Post by Chip
Yeesh, liability society.
Sad really, "no, we won't supply you with a bottle of mineral water in
case you decide to inhale it and drown".
I should think so too, those squeezy ones are lethal; I was nearly drowned
by one myself.

mike
Chris Hodges
2005-07-15 17:26:39 UTC
Permalink
Post by PC Paul
Have you tried buying citric acid for descaling recently - you get a right
dirty look because apparently it's used for cutting drugs...
Try a homebrew shop for citric acid (small-ish quantities anyway)
--
Spamtrap in use
To email replace 127.0.0.1 with blueyonder dot co dot uk
Andy Dingley
2005-07-15 22:36:13 UTC
Permalink
Post by Chris Hodges
Try a homebrew shop for citric acid (small-ish quantities anyway)
And a stainless steel fabricator for kilograms
news
2005-07-15 13:16:17 UTC
Permalink
Post by Egremont
According to the news, the bombs used in London were constructed from
chemicals obtainable from high street Chemists.
Well, of late I've tried to get stuff like ammonia for cleaning and,
more optomistically, dilute HCL for de-scaling and just got a look of
bemusement from behind the counter. I came to the conclusion that the
old fashioned Chemist doesn't exist any more -they are now
Pharamacies selling drugs, cold cures and the like but not household
chemicals.
Does some Chemists actually still sell old-fashioned cleaning agents,
meths, paraffin, ammonia and the like thesedays?.
Egremont
everything is available online and if you have a proper reason you can buy
anything that isn't illegal. people tend to forget that in a parliamentary (faux)
democracy if it's isn't specifically illegal, you can do it :D
Frank Erskine
2005-07-15 13:19:56 UTC
Permalink
Post by Egremont
According to the news, the bombs used in London were constructed from
chemicals obtainable from high street Chemists.
Well, of late I've tried to get stuff like ammonia for cleaning and, more
optomistically, dilute HCL for de-scaling and just got a look of bemusement
from behind the counter. I came to the conclusion that the old fashioned
Chemist doesn't exist any more -they are now Pharamacies selling drugs, cold
cures and the like but not household chemicals.
Does some Chemists actually still sell old-fashioned cleaning agents, meths,
paraffin, ammonia and the like thesedays?.
I don't have any bother getting isopropyl alcohol, but from a real
pharmacy rather than an in-supermaket one.

You can readily buy meths from outdoor accessory/camping shops.
--
Frank Erskine
news
2005-07-15 13:21:34 UTC
Permalink
Post by Frank Erskine
Post by Egremont
According to the news, the bombs used in London were constructed from
chemicals obtainable from high street Chemists.
Well, of late I've tried to get stuff like ammonia for cleaning and,
more optomistically, dilute HCL for de-scaling and just got a look
of bemusement from behind the counter. I came to the conclusion that
the old fashioned Chemist doesn't exist any more -they are now
Pharamacies selling drugs, cold cures and the like but not household
chemicals.
Does some Chemists actually still sell old-fashioned cleaning
agents, meths, paraffin, ammonia and the like thesedays?.
I don't have any bother getting isopropyl alcohol, but from a real
pharmacy rather than an in-supermaket one.
I bought a litre of IPA from maplins 3 weeks ago.
Bob Eager
2005-07-15 14:09:15 UTC
Permalink
On Fri, 15 Jul 2005 13:19:56 UTC, Frank Erskine
Post by Frank Erskine
I don't have any bother getting isopropyl alcohol, but from a real
pharmacy rather than an in-supermaket one.
I get IPA from CPC.
Post by Frank Erskine
You can readily buy meths from outdoor accessory/camping shops.
Old fashioned ironmongers (not that easy to find, but...). Same for
ammonia.
Stuart Noble
2005-07-15 13:28:25 UTC
Permalink
Post by Egremont
According to the news, the bombs used in London were constructed from
chemicals obtainable from high street Chemists.
Probably from supermarkets even. Combinations of branded household goods
can be pretty lethal IIRC.
Pointless looking for evil Egyptian chemists when it appears any bloody
fool can make a bomb. Detonating it might be more difficult and possibly
the London bombers didn't get that bit right. Why carry ID unless you
envisage walking away from the scene?
Interesting that caustic soda cannot be sold over the counter by my
local plumbers merchant, so I was forced to go to Focus and get it off
the shelf.
Dave Plowman (News)
2005-07-15 14:49:27 UTC
Permalink
Post by Stuart Noble
Detonating it might be more difficult and possibly
the London bombers didn't get that bit right. Why carry ID unless you
envisage walking away from the scene?
Because they were proud to be known to die for their cause?
Seems impossible to any normal person, but these suicide bombers are brain
washed.
--
*I pretend to work. - they pretend to pay me.

Dave Plowman ***@davenoise.co.uk London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.
Egremont
2005-07-15 13:32:45 UTC
Permalink
I don't think my local Chemist ever did sell meths or paraffin - that was
the hardware shop.

If I tried buying Citric acid from my Chemist (Pharmacist) I wouldn't get a
dirty look, just a look of 'why do you think we'd sell that - we sell cough
mixture!". Specific examples elude me but now and again you see a suggestion
to use some chemical for some cleaning or DIY job and whenever I've tried a
Chemist I've drawn a blank.

It just made me want to ask - do Chemists/Pharmacists (e.g. Boots) really
sell chemicals as suggested on the news?.

Egremont
PC Paul
2005-07-15 13:43:41 UTC
Permalink
Post by Egremont
I don't think my local Chemist ever did sell meths or paraffin - that was
the hardware shop.
If I tried buying Citric acid from my Chemist (Pharmacist) I wouldn't get a
dirty look, just a look of 'why do you think we'd sell that - we sell cough
mixture!". Specific examples elude me but now and again you see a suggestion
to use some chemical for some cleaning or DIY job and whenever I've tried a
Chemist I've drawn a blank.
It just made me want to ask - do Chemists/Pharmacists (e.g. Boots) really
sell chemicals as suggested on the news?.
rec.woodworking people are always suggesting using 'mineral oil' for
finishing food related items such as chopping boards, salad bowls etc. and
getting it from a pharmacy.

Nobody over here (UK) has any idea what it is...
S Viemeister
2005-07-15 13:52:52 UTC
Permalink
Post by PC Paul
rec.woodworking people are always suggesting using 'mineral oil' for
finishing food related items such as chopping boards, salad bowls etc. and
getting it from a pharmacy.
Nobody over here (UK) has any idea what it is...
Isn't it liquid parafin?
Rob Morley
2005-07-15 13:58:18 UTC
Permalink
Post by S Viemeister
Post by PC Paul
rec.woodworking people are always suggesting using 'mineral oil' for
finishing food related items such as chopping boards, salad bowls etc. and
getting it from a pharmacy.
Nobody over here (UK) has any idea what it is...
Isn't it liquid parafin?
Yes.
Mary Fisher
2005-07-16 10:46:09 UTC
Permalink
Post by S Viemeister
Post by PC Paul
rec.woodworking people are always suggesting using 'mineral oil' for
finishing food related items such as chopping boards, salad bowls etc. and
getting it from a pharmacy.
Nobody over here (UK) has any idea what it is...
Isn't it liquid parafin?
Yes, that's two of us who know in UK.

:-)

Mary
Huge
2005-07-15 13:46:40 UTC
Permalink
"Egremont" <***@noggin.nog> writes:

[9 lines snipped]
Post by Egremont
It just made me want to ask - do Chemists/Pharmacists (e.g. Boots) really
sell chemicals as suggested on the news?.
Of course. And "chemicals" are, as we all know, utterly evil.

Meanwhile, in the real world, making explosives sufficiently energetic
to cause the damage seen in London whilst being transportable in a
rucksack is difficult and dangerous. Easily manufactured explosives
are not very energetic and hard to initiate, whereas energetic ones are
difficult to make without blowing yourself up and require chemicals
not often stocked in a High St. chemists; "5 litres of fuming nitric
acid, please, my man."

The media are, as usual, full of shit.
--
"The road to Paradise is through Intercourse."
[email me at huge [at] huge [dot] org [dot] uk]
Bob Eager
2005-07-15 14:09:16 UTC
Permalink
Post by Egremont
If I tried buying Citric acid from my Chemist (Pharmacist) I wouldn't get a
dirty look, just a look of 'why do you think we'd sell that - we sell cough
mixture!".
All our local chemists sell it - apart from Boots, who are always
bemused anyway. They keep it in the pharmacy.
John Rumm
2005-07-16 00:15:55 UTC
Permalink
Post by Egremont
If I tried buying Citric acid from my Chemist (Pharmacist) I wouldn't get a
dirty look, just a look of 'why do you think we'd sell that - we sell cough
mixture!". Specific examples elude me but now and again you see a suggestion
to use some chemical for some cleaning or DIY job and whenever I've tried a
Chemist I've drawn a blank.
It just made me want to ask - do Chemists/Pharmacists (e.g. Boots) really
sell chemicals as suggested on the news?.
It used to be the case you could buy citric acid in the wine making
section of boots. Mixed in solution with Sodium Metabisulfite makes a
sterilising solution (or in fact, the gas evolved by it IIRC).
--
Cheers,

John.

/=================================================================\
| Internode Ltd - http://www.internode.co.uk |
|-----------------------------------------------------------------|
| John Rumm - john(at)internode(dot)co(dot)uk |
\=================================================================/
dave stanton
2005-07-16 06:39:00 UTC
Permalink
Post by John Rumm
It used to be the case you could buy citric acid in the wine making
section of boots. Mixed in solution with Sodium Metabisulfite makes a
sterilising solution (or in fact, the gas evolved by it IIRC).
In Wilkinson you now have to ask for it at the counter, where no doubt
its behind several locks.

DAve
Mary Fisher
2005-07-16 10:47:39 UTC
Permalink
Post by John Rumm
It used to be the case you could buy citric acid in the wine making
section of boots. Mixed in solution with Sodium Metabisulfite makes a
sterilising solution (or in fact, the gas evolved by it IIRC).
You're not a winemaker are you ?

;-)

Mary
Post by John Rumm
--
Cheers,
John.
/=================================================================\
| Internode Ltd - http://www.internode.co.uk |
|-----------------------------------------------------------------|
| John Rumm - john(at)internode(dot)co(dot)uk |
\=================================================================/
John Rumm
2005-07-16 15:55:52 UTC
Permalink
Post by Mary Fisher
You're not a winemaker are you ?
Nope, my mum used to be though. I Dabbled in home brewing a few years back.
--
Cheers,

John.

/=================================================================\
| Internode Ltd - http://www.internode.co.uk |
|-----------------------------------------------------------------|
| John Rumm - john(at)internode(dot)co(dot)uk |
\=================================================================/
Mary Fisher
2005-07-16 19:04:29 UTC
Permalink
Post by John Rumm
Post by Mary Fisher
You're not a winemaker are you ?
Nope, my mum used to be though. I Dabbled in home brewing a few years back.
Citric acid isn't used for sterilising but to balance flavours. Sometimes
malic acid is used and sometime tannic. Sometimes a combination.

Mary
raden
2005-07-16 19:15:10 UTC
Permalink
Post by Mary Fisher
Post by John Rumm
Post by Mary Fisher
You're not a winemaker are you ?
Nope, my mum used to be though. I Dabbled in home brewing a few years back.
Citric acid isn't used for sterilising but to balance flavours. Sometimes
malic acid is used and sometime tannic. Sometimes a combination.
Or glycol in Austria / Italy
--
geoff
Mary Fisher
2005-07-16 19:22:23 UTC
Permalink
Post by raden
Post by Mary Fisher
Post by John Rumm
Post by Mary Fisher
You're not a winemaker are you ?
Nope, my mum used to be though. I Dabbled in home brewing a few years back.
Citric acid isn't used for sterilising but to balance flavours. Sometimes
malic acid is used and sometime tannic. Sometimes a combination.
Or glycol in Austria / Italy
That's for smoothness.

Mary
Post by raden
--
geoff
dennis@home
2005-07-16 20:38:39 UTC
Permalink
Post by Mary Fisher
Post by John Rumm
Post by Mary Fisher
You're not a winemaker are you ?
Nope, my mum used to be though. I Dabbled in home brewing a few years back.
Citric acid isn't used for sterilising but to balance flavours.
I thought it was to provide an environment that the yeast thrived in.

IIRC you used to mix citric acid and sodium metabisulphate to make a
sterilising solution (SO2 being the result).
John Rumm
2005-07-16 21:51:25 UTC
Permalink
Post by Mary Fisher
Post by John Rumm
Nope, my mum used to be though. I Dabbled in home brewing a few years back.
Citric acid isn't used for sterilising but to balance flavours. Sometimes
malic acid is used and sometime tannic. Sometimes a combination.
You can use citric as an acidity adjuster in the wine itself (which is
what you describe), however it also works in solution with Sodium
Metabisufate as a sterilsing solution.

The sodium metabisulfate solution evolves a gas (sulphur dioxide) which
sterilises on contact. The addition of citric acid helps speed up the
reaction IIUC. Very effective, but try and avoid breathing the fumes!
--
Cheers,

John.

/=================================================================\
| Internode Ltd - http://www.internode.co.uk |
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| John Rumm - john(at)internode(dot)co(dot)uk |
\=================================================================/
b***@meeow.co.uk
2005-07-15 13:52:28 UTC
Permalink
Post by Egremont
According to the news, the bombs used in London were constructed from
chemicals obtainable from high street Chemists.
Well, of late I've tried to get stuff like ammonia for cleaning
smelling salts, or use caustic, or try a wood finishing place.
Post by Egremont
and, more
optomistically, dilute HCL for de-scaling and just got a look of bemusement
from behind the counter.
brick acid, fernox, tesco bog cleaner
Post by Egremont
I came to the conclusion that the old fashioned
Chemist doesn't exist any more -they are now Pharamacies selling drugs, cold
cures and the like but not household chemicals.
Does some Chemists actually still sell old-fashioned cleaning agents, meths,
rubbing alcohol, surgical spirit, rectified etc, tape head cleaner, all
similar but not same. Try a paint shop for real meths
Post by Egremont
paraffin,
sold at gararges. aka lamp oil
Post by Egremont
ammonia and the like thesedays?.
just a case of knowing whats what. Its not labelled as obviously as it
used to be, and most products are now proprietary mixes rather than
single chems, and one tends to have to get this here, that there etc.
Theres not the demand for those kind of things there once was. Guess
bom making just isnt as fashionable now. It used to be a popular sport
among teenagers.


NT
John Rumm
2005-07-16 00:19:01 UTC
Permalink
Post by b***@meeow.co.uk
brick acid, fernox, tesco bog cleaner
Fernox descaler is usually Sulphamic acid...
--
Cheers,

John.

/=================================================================\
| Internode Ltd - http://www.internode.co.uk |
|-----------------------------------------------------------------|
| John Rumm - john(at)internode(dot)co(dot)uk |
\=================================================================/
Dave Plowman (News)
2005-07-15 14:46:35 UTC
Permalink
Post by Egremont
Does some Chemists actually still sell old-fashioned cleaning agents,
meths, paraffin, ammonia and the like thesedays?.
I wanted some IPA for cleaning purposes and got the third degree from my
local chemist. Eventually he sold me a 1/2 litre bottle about 1/4 full.
--
*The beatings will continue until morale improves *

Dave Plowman ***@davenoise.co.uk London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.
Chip
2005-07-15 15:52:07 UTC
Permalink
On Fri, 15 Jul 2005 15:46:35 +0100,it is alleged that "Dave Plowman
Post by Dave Plowman (News)
Post by Egremont
Does some Chemists actually still sell old-fashioned cleaning agents,
meths, paraffin, ammonia and the like thesedays?.
I wanted some IPA for cleaning purposes and got the third degree from my
local chemist. Eventually he sold me a 1/2 litre bottle about 1/4 full.
I'd have given him the third degree back, as to what the hell he was
doing in business as a chemist if he doesn't want to sell chemicals.

Maplin electronics, 9.99 for a litre.
--
"Anyone who is capable of getting themselves made President should on
*no* account be allowed to do the job."
- The Hitchhiker's Guide to the Galaxy
Doctor Evil
2005-07-15 16:02:34 UTC
Permalink
Post by Chip
On Fri, 15 Jul 2005 15:46:35 +0100,it is alleged that "Dave Plowman
Post by Dave Plowman (News)
Post by Egremont
Does some Chemists actually still sell old-fashioned cleaning agents,
meths, paraffin, ammonia and the like thesedays?.
I wanted some IPA for cleaning purposes and got the third degree from my
local chemist. Eventually he sold me a 1/2 litre bottle about 1/4 full.
I'd have given him the third degree back, as to what the hell he was
doing in business as a chemist if he doesn't want to sell chemicals.
Maplin electronics, 9.99 for a litre.
You have to put yourslef in the Chemists place. If dribbling, babbling
scruffy sod walked in, you would have to ask questions. No doubt he gave
him half and watched him go out the door, just in case he drank it.
Dave Plowman (News)
2005-07-15 16:54:58 UTC
Permalink
Post by Doctor Evil
Post by Chip
I'd have given him the third degree back, as to what the hell he was
doing in business as a chemist if he doesn't want to sell chemicals.
Maplin electronics, 9.99 for a litre.
You have to put yourslef in the Chemists place. If dribbling, babbling
scruffy sod walked in, you would have to ask questions.
And what was your answer? Of course he wouldn't have understood it.
--
*Why is "abbreviated" such a long word?

Dave Plowman ***@davenoise.co.uk London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.
Doctor Evil
2005-07-15 20:53:48 UTC
Permalink
Post by Dave Plowman (News)
Post by Chip
I'd have given him the third degree back, as to what the hell he was
doing in business as a chemist if he doesn't want to sell chemicals.
Maplin electronics, 9.99 for a litre.
You have to put yourslef in the Chemists place. If a dribbling, babbling
scruffy sod walked in, you would have to ask questions.
And what was your answer? Of course he wouldn't have understood it.
The Chemist never understood your babble, understandable so, and he gave you
the stuff? If I know I would go to the police to stop this sort of thing,
and get the Chemist locked up, and you sent back to the clinic.
raden
2005-07-15 16:50:15 UTC
Permalink
Post by Chip
On Fri, 15 Jul 2005 15:46:35 +0100,it is alleged that "Dave Plowman
Post by Dave Plowman (News)
Post by Egremont
Does some Chemists actually still sell old-fashioned cleaning agents,
meths, paraffin, ammonia and the like thesedays?.
I wanted some IPA for cleaning purposes and got the third degree from my
local chemist. Eventually he sold me a 1/2 litre bottle about 1/4 full.
I'd have given him the third degree back, as to what the hell he was
doing in business as a chemist if he doesn't want to sell chemicals.
Maplin electronics, 9.99 for a litre.
About 6 quid from cpc IIRC
--
geoff
Frank Erskine
2005-07-15 18:25:43 UTC
Permalink
Post by Chip
On Fri, 15 Jul 2005 15:46:35 +0100,it is alleged that "Dave Plowman
Post by Dave Plowman (News)
Post by Egremont
Does some Chemists actually still sell old-fashioned cleaning agents,
meths, paraffin, ammonia and the like thesedays?.
I wanted some IPA for cleaning purposes and got the third degree from my
local chemist. Eventually he sold me a 1/2 litre bottle about 1/4 full.
I'd have given him the third degree back, as to what the hell he was
doing in business as a chemist if he doesn't want to sell chemicals.
I spoke to a pharmacist pal of mine a while ago, and he reckons that
"chemists" are no longer allowed to "make up" medicines, apart from
very simple mixtures.

Their pharmacoepia (sp?) (a pharmacy reference book) used to have
various formulae - alas no more. It simply describes drugs from
various manufacturers.

Virtually all medicines have to be proprietary, so any odd "chemicals"
they may have will be simply used alone, so there's no need for them
to stock saltpetre, flowers of sulphur, etc.
--
Frank Erskine
Doctor Evil
2005-07-15 15:57:08 UTC
Permalink
Post by Dave Plowman (News)
Post by Egremont
Does some Chemists actually still sell old-fashioned cleaning agents,
meths, paraffin, ammonia and the like thesedays?.
I wanted some IPA for cleaning purposes
and got the third degree from my
local chemist.
I'm not surprise. I wouldn't let you near matches.
raden
2005-07-15 16:45:29 UTC
Permalink
Post by Dave Plowman (News)
Post by Egremont
Does some Chemists actually still sell old-fashioned cleaning agents,
meths, paraffin, ammonia and the like thesedays?.
I wanted some IPA for cleaning purposes and got the third degree from my
local chemist.
Did you ask him why ?

Next time, ask me, and I'll get you a litre on my next CPC order
--
geoff
Dave Plowman (News)
2005-07-15 17:11:41 UTC
Permalink
Post by raden
Post by Dave Plowman (News)
I wanted some IPA for cleaning purposes and got the third degree from my
local chemist.
Did you ask him why ?
I expect it's because you may be able to drink it. And it's not a shop
I've been in before.
Post by raden
Next time, ask me, and I'll get you a litre on my next CPC order
It was one of those things I wanted there and then, but thanks for the
offer.
--
*Honk if you love peace and quiet.

Dave Plowman ***@davenoise.co.uk London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.
Andy Dingley
2005-07-15 19:28:47 UTC
Permalink
Post by raden
Did you ask him why ?
War On Drugs (rather than terrorism). Isopropanol has been difficult
to buy from a chemist for some years now, and not _entirely_ without
justification. OTOH, go round the corner to the industrial supplier
(greasemonkey, not lab coat) and you'll get it no problem because they
don't even know what else it can be used for.

I expect acetone to become harder to get hold of, following last week's
bombs.
raden
2005-07-15 19:42:33 UTC
Permalink
Post by Andy Dingley
Post by raden
Did you ask him why ?
War On Drugs (rather than terrorism). Isopropanol has been difficult
to buy from a chemist for some years now, and not _entirely_ without
justification. OTOH, go round the corner to the industrial supplier
(greasemonkey, not lab coat) and you'll get it no problem because they
don't even know what else it can be used for.
I expect acetone to become harder to get hold of, following last week's
bombs.
Bugger, that's my nails gonna be a mess
--
geoff
Mary Fisher
2005-07-16 10:50:30 UTC
Permalink
Post by raden
Post by Andy Dingley
Post by raden
Did you ask him why ?
War On Drugs (rather than terrorism). Isopropanol has been difficult
to buy from a chemist for some years now, and not _entirely_ without
justification. OTOH, go round the corner to the industrial supplier
(greasemonkey, not lab coat) and you'll get it no problem because they
don't even know what else it can be used for.
I expect acetone to become harder to get hold of, following last week's
bombs.
Bugger, that's my nails gonna be a mess
Don't worry, dwahling, the best nail polish removers don't contain acetone.

You reall ARE bored aren't you!

Mary
Post by raden
--
geoff
raden
2005-07-16 16:27:29 UTC
Permalink
Post by Mary Fisher
Post by raden
Post by Andy Dingley
Post by raden
Did you ask him why ?
War On Drugs (rather than terrorism). Isopropanol has been difficult
to buy from a chemist for some years now, and not _entirely_ without
justification. OTOH, go round the corner to the industrial supplier
(greasemonkey, not lab coat) and you'll get it no problem because they
don't even know what else it can be used for.
I expect acetone to become harder to get hold of, following last week's
bombs.
Bugger, that's my nails gonna be a mess
Don't worry, dwahling, the best nail polish removers don't contain acetone.
You reall ARE bored aren't you!
Bored, but improving
--
geoff
Mary Fisher
2005-07-16 19:05:11 UTC
Permalink
Post by raden
Post by Mary Fisher
You reall ARE bored aren't you!
Bored, but improving
Good. I'm pleased to here it :-)

Mary
Post by raden
--
geoff
dave stanton
2005-07-15 19:51:31 UTC
Permalink
Post by Andy Dingley
I expect acetone to become harder to get hold of, following last week's
bombs.
That used Acetone Peroxide or are you writing tongue in cheek
Andy!!

I expect this will now get filed at MI5.

Dave
Andy Dingley
2005-07-15 20:28:55 UTC
Permalink
Post by dave stanton
Post by Andy Dingley
I expect acetone to become harder to get hold of, following last week's
bombs.
That used Acetone Peroxide
Has that been confirmed publically yet, or was it just obvious ?

You can't buy acetone peroxide OTC (you can't store or ship the stuff
safely anyway) but it's an easy synthesis and the only powerful
explosive that's still a viable kitchen sink process.
dave stanton
2005-07-16 06:34:01 UTC
Permalink
Post by Andy Dingley
Post by dave stanton
That used Acetone Peroxide
Has that been confirmed publically yet, or was it just obvious ?
You can't buy acetone peroxide OTC (you can't store or ship the stuff
safely anyway) but it's an easy synthesis and the only powerful
explosive that's still a viable kitchen sink process.
Yeah, used to be a chemist this end ( many years ago I hasten to add).
I love the way the press make out these things are so simple to do.

Dave
The Natural Philosopher
2005-07-16 09:32:32 UTC
Permalink
Post by Andy Dingley
Post by raden
Did you ask him why ?
War On Drugs (rather than terrorism). Isopropanol has been difficult
to buy from a chemist for some years now, and not _entirely_ without
justification. OTOH, go round the corner to the industrial supplier
(greasemonkey, not lab coat) and you'll get it no problem because they
don't even know what else it can be used for.
I expect acetone to become harder to get hold of, following last week's
bombs.
Its fairly hard already.

But there are places where you can get it...indiustrial suppliers to
certain specialist trades..
Peter Riocreux
2005-07-15 16:42:51 UTC
Permalink
Post by Dave Plowman (News)
Post by Egremont
Does some Chemists actually still sell old-fashioned cleaning agents,
meths, paraffin, ammonia and the like thesedays?.
I wanted some IPA for cleaning purposes and got the third degree from my
local chemist. Eventually he sold me a 1/2 litre bottle about 1/4 full.
Did you try your nearest Greene King pub .....


Peter
Dave Plowman (News)
2005-07-15 17:12:31 UTC
Permalink
Post by Peter Riocreux
Post by Dave Plowman (News)
I wanted some IPA for cleaning purposes and got the third degree from
my local chemist. Eventually he sold me a 1/2 litre bottle about 1/4
full.
Did you try your nearest Greene King pub ....
Wonder which does more harm to your guts? ;-)
--
*Too many clicks spoil the browse *

Dave Plowman ***@davenoise.co.uk London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.
Andrew Gabriel
2005-07-15 15:45:37 UTC
Permalink
Post by Egremont
Well, of late I've tried to get stuff like ammonia for cleaning and, more
optomistically, dilute HCL for de-scaling and just got a look of bemusement
from behind the counter. I came to the conclusion that the old fashioned
Chemist doesn't exist any more -they are now Pharamacies selling drugs, cold
cures and the like but not household chemicals.
As a teenager, I used to buy chemicals from our local chemist.
They were rarely in stock, but they had two deliveries a day
as needed to get the more obscure prescription in drugs anyway,
and could order chemicals in the same way. I've still got a
bottle of ferric chloride from back then (used for etching
circuit boards). I remember ordering all sorts of things for
doing chemistry experimentation at the time.

I often wonder if kids still do any practical work in chemistry
lessons nowadays. I'm pretty certain they wouldn't be allowed
to do a number of the things we did.
--
Andrew Gabriel
Egremont
2005-07-15 16:38:22 UTC
Permalink
Something else I've never been able to get is Plaster of Paris, as
recommended by Jackson / Day to fix a broken ceiling. Perhaps it's now
branded as "Arm Fixer" in Chemists or "Fast Setting Ceiling Fixer" in B&Q,
or maybe I need to find an outlet that supplies my local A&E unit...

RE my original post, I was starting to think Al Quaeda must be making bombs
out of Aspirin or something - I can't even get something to clean up a brass
letterbox from my local Chemists. But maybe I just need to find a better
one.

Egremont.
b***@meeow.co.uk
2005-07-15 17:58:40 UTC
Permalink
Post by Egremont
Something else I've never been able to get is Plaster of Paris, as
recommended by Jackson / Day to fix a broken ceiling. Perhaps it's now
branded as "Arm Fixer" in Chemists or "Fast Setting Ceiling Fixer" in B&Q,
or maybe I need to find an outlet that supplies my local A&E unit...
RE my original post, I was starting to think Al Quaeda must be making bombs
out of Aspirin or something - I can't even get something to clean up a brass
letterbox from my local Chemists. But maybe I just need to find a better
one.
Egremont.
The chemists makret is more drugs than what we think of as 'chemicals.'
You can probably get more 'chemicals' from the cleaning section at
tesco.


NT
Chris McBrien
2005-07-16 12:27:33 UTC
Permalink
Since when has it been an offence to drink Meths or Isopropyl alcohol?

If a pack of cigarettes says, "Smoking Kills", why aren't you charged with
carrying an offensive weapon(s)?

Rust remover...
50% - Phosphoric Acid
50% - Acetone
and a squirt of Fairy Liquid to act as a surfactant


x-- 100 Proof News - http://www.100ProofNews.com
x-- 30+ Days Binary Retention with High Completion
x-- Access to over 1.9 Terabytes per Day - $8.95/Month
x-- UNLIMITED DOWNLOAD
Dave Plowman (News)
2005-07-16 12:51:06 UTC
Permalink
Post by Chris McBrien
Since when has it been an offence to drink Meths or Isopropyl alcohol?
It might not be, but I'll bet it is if you sell it knowing (or suspecting)
it's going to be drunk.
--
*Not all men are annoying. Some are dead.

Dave Plowman ***@davenoise.co.uk London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.
raden
2005-07-15 18:09:26 UTC
Permalink
Post by Egremont
Something else I've never been able to get is Plaster of Paris, as
recommended by Jackson / Day to fix a broken ceiling. Perhaps it's now
branded as "Arm Fixer" in Chemists or "Fast Setting Ceiling Fixer" in B&Q,
or maybe I need to find an outlet that supplies my local A&E unit...
Casting plaster

You can buy it in normal plaster size bags

I bought one last year
--
geoff
Andy Dingley
2005-07-15 20:29:52 UTC
Permalink
Post by Egremont
RE my original post, I was starting to think Al Quaeda must be making bombs
out of Aspirin or something
It's unlikely they used that (it's ferociously difficult), but are you
aware there _are_ pyro uses for aspirin ?
raden
2005-07-15 20:57:06 UTC
Permalink
Post by Andy Dingley
Post by Egremont
RE my original post, I was starting to think Al Quaeda must be making bombs
out of Aspirin or something
It's unlikely they used that (it's ferociously difficult), but are you
aware there _are_ pyro uses for aspirin ?
Yeah, but the nanny state means you can't even buy a bottle of 100
anymore
--
geoff
chris French
2005-07-16 20:25:32 UTC
Permalink
In message <***@ntlworld.com>, raden <***@kateda.org>
writes
Post by raden
Post by Andy Dingley
Post by Egremont
RE my original post, I was starting to think Al Quaeda must be making bombs
out of Aspirin or something
It's unlikely they used that (it's ferociously difficult), but are you
aware there _are_ pyro uses for aspirin ?
Yeah, but the nanny state means you can't even buy a bottle of 100
anymore
I think yuo mean paracetomol
--
Chris French
raden
2005-07-16 20:32:24 UTC
Permalink
Post by Huge
writes
Post by raden
Post by Andy Dingley
Post by Egremont
RE my original post, I was starting to think Al Quaeda must be making bombs
out of Aspirin or something
It's unlikely they used that (it's ferociously difficult), but are you
aware there _are_ pyro uses for aspirin ?
Yeah, but the nanny state means you can't even buy a bottle of 100
anymore
I think yuo mean paracetomol
I thought it was both
--
geoff
Egremont
2005-07-16 09:28:30 UTC
Permalink
are you aware there _are_ pyro uses for aspirin ?
Yes - the fire officer at my local hostpital told me this was quite a
headache.
Badger
2005-07-16 21:24:49 UTC
Permalink
Post by Andy Dingley
Post by Egremont
RE my original post, I was starting to think Al Quaeda must be making bombs
out of Aspirin or something
It's unlikely they used that (it's ferociously difficult), but are you
aware there _are_ pyro uses for aspirin ?
Vitamin tablets make useful propellant IIRC.
Steven Briggs
2005-07-15 21:02:35 UTC
Permalink
Post by Egremont
Something else I've never been able to get is Plaster of Paris, as
recommended by Jackson / Day to fix a broken ceiling. Perhaps it's now
branded as "Arm Fixer" in Chemists or "Fast Setting Ceiling Fixer" in B&Q,
or maybe I need to find an outlet that supplies my local A&E unit...
Ah, now P of P you can get in Boots. That's where I got my last bag
from. Dental grade stuff ISTR. Had to ask for it, as you do for anything
worthwhile these days.
--
steve
raden
2005-07-15 21:32:41 UTC
Permalink
Post by Steven Briggs
Post by Egremont
Something else I've never been able to get is Plaster of Paris, as
recommended by Jackson / Day to fix a broken ceiling. Perhaps it's now
branded as "Arm Fixer" in Chemists or "Fast Setting Ceiling Fixer" in B&Q,
or maybe I need to find an outlet that supplies my local A&E unit...
Ah, now P of P you can get in Boots. That's where I got my last bag
from. Dental grade stuff ISTR. Had to ask for it, as you do for
anything worthwhile these days.
That must have cost a bit

about £4 / 20 kilo bag ISTR from a building supplier
--
geoff
Andy Dingley
2005-07-15 22:29:18 UTC
Permalink
Post by raden
about £4 / 20 kilo bag ISTR from a building supplier
True plaster of paris can't be found in building suppliers with any
degree of faith in its contents. Sometimes this makes a difference.
raden
2005-07-15 22:46:19 UTC
Permalink
Post by Andy Dingley
Post by raden
about £4 / 20 kilo bag ISTR from a building supplier
True plaster of paris can't be found in building suppliers with any
degree of faith in its contents. Sometimes this makes a difference.
But not that often
--
geoff
Badger
2005-07-15 20:09:49 UTC
Permalink
Post by Andrew Gabriel
As a teenager, I used to buy chemicals from our local chemist.
I remember ordering all sorts of things for
doing chemistry experimentation at the time.
I often wonder if kids still do any practical work in chemistry
lessons nowadays. I'm pretty certain they wouldn't be allowed
to do a number of the things we did.
Good schools still do some practical, sat through a basic chem/phys
lesson recently, though 1 mol HCl isn't very strong they still issue
full safety gear, chatting about 1.16sg HCl, fuming nitric, HF and 100
twaddle caustic I use with the teacher made a few other parents present
a bit worried, can't think why ;-)
Andy Dingley
2005-07-15 20:32:18 UTC
Permalink
Post by Andrew Gabriel
I often wonder if kids still do any practical work in chemistry
lessons nowadays
Why should they ? University courses are closing, more than any other
science (except medicine) a postgrad chemist is regarded as a worthless
bottlewasher until they have at least a doctorate. And there's no work
for chemists, even with good degrees and experience.
Grunff
2005-07-15 20:49:52 UTC
Permalink
Post by Andy Dingley
a postgrad chemist is regarded as a worthless
bottlewasher until they have at least a doctorate.
<waves>

Doesn't change after the doctorate.
--
Grunff
Andy Dingley
2005-07-15 22:28:00 UTC
Permalink
Post by Grunff
Doesn't change after the doctorate.
Oh, you get an upgrade to shit-shoveller !

Friend of mine is a chemist. Oxford degree, with considerable experience
in his field.

Now he's working as a sump-emptier for a chemical waste company on £18k,
in the South-East. He's a bit annoyed about that, but a lot more
annoyed about the binwagon drivers in the same company getting £30k.

And don't mention the twenty-somethings in marketing who have no
chemical knowledge, yet get nearly £50k ! How _do_ you market a
service whose customers are almost all driven to them by legal
requirement anyway, rather than discretionary choice?
Mary Fisher
2005-07-16 10:55:25 UTC
Permalink
Post by Andy Dingley
Post by Grunff
Doesn't change after the doctorate.
Oh, you get an upgrade to shit-shoveller !
Friend of mine is a chemist. Oxford degree, with considerable experience
in his field.
Now he's working as a sump-emptier for a chemical waste company on £18k,
in the South-East. He's a bit annoyed about that, but a lot more
annoyed about the binwagon drivers in the same company getting £30k.
Couldn't he drive a binwagon?


Mary
dave stanton
2005-07-16 06:43:27 UTC
Permalink
Post by Andy Dingley
Why should they ? University courses are closing, more than any other
science (except medicine) a postgrad chemist is regarded as a worthless
bottlewasher until they have at least a doctorate. And there's no work
for chemists, even with good degrees and experience.
Concur, take a look at Graduate sslaries in New Scientist. Your better off
being a very well qualified dustman. no offence intended.

Dave
Dave Plowman (News)
2005-07-16 11:57:45 UTC
Permalink
Post by dave stanton
Concur, take a look at Graduate sslaries in New Scientist. Your better
off being a very well qualified dustman. no offence intended.
I'd hardly describe a dustman as a cushy job. Out in all weathers, need to
be fit, and put up with dreadful smells etc. Very early starts, too.

It's not a job I'd choose to do regardless.
--
*If only you'd use your powers for good instead of evil.

Dave Plowman ***@davenoise.co.uk London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.
dave stanton
2005-07-16 14:19:42 UTC
Permalink
Post by Dave Plowman (News)
I'd hardly describe a dustman as a cushy job. Out in all weathers, need to
be fit, and put up with dreadful smells etc. Very early starts, too.
It's not a job I'd choose to do regardless.
Did'nt say it was, just it pays more.

Dave
Mary Fisher
2005-07-16 10:54:46 UTC
Permalink
Post by Andy Dingley
Post by Andrew Gabriel
I often wonder if kids still do any practical work in chemistry
lessons nowadays
Why should they ?
For the experience.

Education shouldn't just be about a career.

Mary
Mary Fisher
2005-07-16 10:52:05 UTC
Permalink
Post by Andrew Gabriel
I often wonder if kids still do any practical work in chemistry
lessons nowadays. I'm pretty certain they wouldn't be allowed
to do a number of the things we did.
They're not. It's ridiculous, takes all the magic out of the lab.

Mary
Peter Lynch
2005-07-15 20:08:54 UTC
Permalink
No, of course you can't, it's just another tabloid fantasy
.
What are they saying about the bombers: 4 people with 10kg bombs,
that's 40kg of explosives
Can you imagine going into your local Boots and asking for
20kg of big-bang sulphate and 20kg of kabluey nitrate

Apart from the issues of the chemicals themselves, they simply wouldn't
have the quantity and would probably report you for even trying to buy
it.
The problem is that there is very little _hard facts_ available yet
but because of the size of the story, papers have to pad out what they
have to fill space. If they just printed the facts, it probably
wouldn't cover half a page total.

p.s. If you want conc. HCl for descaling, buy "spirits of salts" from
a plumbing outlet. it's nasty stuff, so avoid unless you know what you're
doiing.

Pete
Post by Egremont
According to the news, the bombs used in London were constructed from
chemicals obtainable from high street Chemists.
Well, of late I've tried to get stuff like ammonia for cleaning and, more
optomistically, dilute HCL for de-scaling and just got a look of bemusement
from behind the counter. I came to the conclusion that the old fashioned
Chemist doesn't exist any more -they are now Pharamacies selling drugs, cold
cures and the like but not household chemicals.
Does some Chemists actually still sell old-fashioned cleaning agents, meths,
paraffin, ammonia and the like thesedays?.
Egremont
--
..........................................................................
. never trust a man who, when left alone ...... Pete Lynch .
. in a room with a tea cosy ...... Marlow, England .
. doesn't try it on (Billy Connolly) .....................................
Andy Luckman (AJL Electronics)
2005-07-16 09:49:24 UTC
Permalink
Post by Peter Lynch
No, of course you can't,
Can't what?
Post by Peter Lynch
it's just another tabloid fantasy
What is?
No idea as there is no context before your comment.
Post by Peter Lynch
Apart from the issues of the chemicals themselves, they simply wouldn't
have the quantity and would probably report you for even trying to buy
it.
Who wouldn't ?
Post by Peter Lynch
The problem is that there is very little _hard facts_ available yet
but because of the size of the story, papers have to pad out what they
have to fill space. If they just printed the facts, it probably
wouldn't cover half a page total.
Probably would if they printed the responses upside down and left all the
previous week's news flowing in its wake.


http://www.allmyfaqs.com/faq.pl?How_to_post
--
AJL Electronics (G6FGO) Ltd : Satellite and TV aerial systems
http://www.classicmicrocars.co.uk : http://www.ajlelectronics.co.uk
Egremont
2005-07-15 20:33:55 UTC
Permalink
Latest TV report I seen suggest that the bombers might indeed have bought
branded stuff from the shop floor, not some household chemicals over the
counter. And it looks like you're stuggling if you want to buy old-fashioned
chemicals from a Chemist, and as mentioned before it won't be long before
the permitted list is reduced to mineral water (about 5 grams).

Egremont

BTW I'm reliably informed you would have been able to get Meths from a
Chemist a few years ago.
Ed Sirett
2005-07-15 21:56:53 UTC
Permalink
Post by Egremont
According to the news, the bombs used in London were constructed from
chemicals obtainable from high street Chemists.
Well, of late I've tried to get stuff like ammonia for cleaning and, more
optomistically, dilute HCL for de-scaling and just got a look of bemusement
from behind the counter. I came to the conclusion that the old fashioned
Chemist doesn't exist any more -they are now Pharamacies selling drugs, cold
cures and the like but not household chemicals.
Does some Chemists actually still sell old-fashioned cleaning agents, meths,
paraffin, ammonia and the like thesedays?.
Most major reagents are available with a little lateral thinking.

Ammonia NH3 is a gas but Ammonium Hydroxide NH4OH is probably still
available at a tradition hardware store as "Scrubbs Cloudy Ammonia".
Although I've not seen any recently.

Dilute HCl is easily bought as brickwork cleaner from Travis Perkins(say),
I get more dilute stuff from s/fix as Patio Cleaner which probably
contains some detergent as well.

NaOH is readily available as 'Draino' drain cleaner even from the 'sheds'.

Conc. H2SO4 can be gotten from a real plumber's merchant as drain cleaner.

Paraffin - Just buy White Spirit.

In rural areas I would have thought getting hold of Ammonium Nitrate in
the form of commercial fertilizer was plausible.

My chemistry isn't good enough to know what you do next ...
--
Ed Sirett - Property maintainer and registered gas fitter.
The FAQ for uk.diy is at http://www.diyfaq.org.uk
Gas fitting FAQ http://www.makewrite.demon.co.uk/GasFitting.html
Sealed CH FAQ http://www.makewrite.demon.co.uk/SealedCH.html
Andy Dingley
2005-07-15 22:34:36 UTC
Permalink
Post by Ed Sirett
Ammonia NH3 is a gas but Ammonium Hydroxide NH4OH is probably still
available at a tradition hardware store as "Scrubbs Cloudy Ammonia".
Although I've not seen any recently.
".880" ammonia is very hard to find (but easy to buy if you find it).
25% is the usual hardware store grade.
Post by Ed Sirett
Dilute HCl / Conc. H2SO4 can be gotten from a real plumber's merchant as drain cleaner.
Easy to find. H2SO4 is particular popular for suicide(sic) / murder of
disgraced women amongst some communities.
Post by Ed Sirett
NaOH is readily available as 'Draino' drain cleaner even from the 'sheds'.
Check the price though.
Post by Ed Sirett
Paraffin - Just buy White Spirit.
Quite different stuff, and enough to matter. White spirit will
evaporate, paraffin won't, subst. turps mostly does.
Post by Ed Sirett
In rural areas I would have thought getting hold of Ammonium Nitrate in
the form of commercial fertilizer was plausible.
Impossible to get for years (except as explosive prills). Agric
fertilisers are a mixture of salts, not just ammonia or potassium.
They're also full of retardants, because of the risk of them being
diverted for explosive uses. Reagant-grade potassium nitrate is still
easy enough to get, if you go to the right place and don't buy huge
quantities.
Frank Erskine
2005-07-15 23:59:25 UTC
Permalink
On Fri, 15 Jul 2005 23:34:36 +0100, Andy Dingley
Post by Andy Dingley
Quite different stuff, and enough to matter. White spirit will
evaporate, paraffin won't, subst. turps mostly does.
(literally) About 20 years ago I stuffed a paintbrush into some sort
of "solvent" in an old mug next to the kitchen sink. The brush is
still soft(ish) and the solvent is still of about the same volume.
There must be some sort of absorbance of atmospheric
something-or-other.

I'm tempted to chuck the paintbrush away and reclaim the mug as a
coffee-cup :-)
--
Frank Erskine
chris French
2005-07-16 20:31:40 UTC
Permalink
Post by Andy Dingley
Post by Ed Sirett
Paraffin - Just buy White Spirit.
Quite different stuff, and enough to matter. White spirit will
evaporate, paraffin won't, subst. turps mostly does.
And anyway, you can get paraffin easily anyway
--
Chris French
Badger
2005-07-16 21:43:31 UTC
Permalink
Hi all,

We had our windows (softwood) replaced about 12 years ago, with double
glazed PVCU framed ones.
Recently I had a security assessment by the local CRO (crime reduction
officer), he said they were "not robust", no further explanation, so any
ideas what he's talking about and how to improve them???

Niel.
Dave Liquorice
2005-07-15 22:45:27 UTC
Permalink
Post by Ed Sirett
My chemistry isn't good enough to know what you do next ...
You have the net, you have google... I haven't googled acetone
peroxide yet.
--
Cheers ***@howhill.com
Dave. pam is missing e-mail
raden
2005-07-16 00:00:51 UTC
Permalink
Post by Dave Liquorice
Post by Ed Sirett
My chemistry isn't good enough to know what you do next ...
You have the net, you have google... I haven't googled acetone
peroxide yet.
Echelon is waiting for you
--
geoff
Badger
2005-07-16 21:29:27 UTC
Permalink
Post by raden
Post by Dave Liquorice
You have the net, you have google... I haven't googled acetone
peroxide yet.
Echelon is waiting for you
And they are already talking about making it an offence to look....
Rod
2005-07-16 21:19:46 UTC
Permalink
Post by Dave Liquorice
Post by Ed Sirett
My chemistry isn't good enough to know what you do next ...
You have the net, you have google... I haven't googled acetone
peroxide yet.
I have - and very impressed that on the very day that it was announced,
wikipedia had an updated entry mentioning that it had been used in the
Lonodon bombing.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Acetone_peroxide

Ammonia - is it still used in any refrigerators? And would it be
extractable?
--
Rod
Badger
2005-07-16 21:27:01 UTC
Permalink
Post by Ed Sirett
In rural areas I would have thought getting hold of Ammonium Nitrate in
the form of commercial fertilizer was plausible.
I I drive less than a mile out of Fareham on the A32 I can find it ready
prilled in 1 tonne bags left by the roadside for a farmer...
m***@privacy.net
2005-07-16 22:21:40 UTC
Permalink
On 16 Jul,
Post by Badger
Post by Ed Sirett
In rural areas I would have thought getting hold of Ammonium Nitrate in
the form of commercial fertilizer was plausible.
I I drive less than a mile out of Fareham on the A32 I can find it ready
prilled in 1 tonne bags left by the roadside for a farmer...
Since the 1970s full strength ammonium nitrate fertiliser has not been
available. A mixture of AN and diesel fuel was used by irish terrorists for
bomb making after the supply of high explosive was diminished.
--
B Thumbs
Change lycos to yahoo to reply
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