Why I voted Brexit

[Broadback]

It was not because I thought the stock market of £ would go up or down,
it was simply that as my fore bearers fought German dominance twice I
was not willing to surrender to then now

[Scott M]

Post by Broadback
It was not because I thought the stock market of £ would go up or down,
it was simply that as my fore bearers fought German dominance twice I
was not willing to surrender to then now

Well done, another old person who doesn't care about the future, only
about clinging onto some weird notion of the good old days.

I bet you think Rover made good cars too.

[Broadback]

Post by Scott M

Post by Broadback
It was not because I thought the stock market of £ would go up or
down, it was simply that as my fore bearers fought German dominance
twice I was not willing to surrender to then now

Well done, another old person who doesn't care about the future, only
about clinging onto some weird notion of the good old days.
I bet you think Rover made good cars too.

Sadly not as good as Volks Vagon

[Scott M]

Post by Broadback

Post by Scott M

Post by Broadback
It was not because I thought the stock market of £ would go up or
down, it was simply that as my fore bearers fought German dominance
twice I was not willing to surrender to then now

Well done, another old person who doesn't care about the future, only
about clinging onto some weird notion of the good old days.
I bet you think Rover made good cars too.

Sadly not as good as Volks Vagon

Which is kinda the point. This idea that Britain is somehow better than
everyone else is demonstrable bollocks. We're in the decline stage of
empire and throwing away connections with powerful neighbours is a bad idea.

[JoeJoe]

Post by Scott M

Post by Broadback

Post by Scott M

Post by Broadback
It was not because I thought the stock market of £ would go up or
down, it was simply that as my fore bearers fought German dominance
twice I was not willing to surrender to then now

Well done, another old person who doesn't care about the future, only
about clinging onto some weird notion of the good old days.
I bet you think Rover made good cars too.

Sadly not as good as Volks Vagon

Which is kinda the point. This idea that Britain is somehow better than
everyone else is demonstrable bollocks. We're in the decline stage of
empire and throwing away connections with powerful neighbours is a bad idea.

"CONNECTIONS with powerful neighbours"? This is what The Project was
meant to be originally. They have long moved in with us... in to our
bedrooms in fact.

[The Natural Philosopher]

Post by Scott M

Post by Broadback

Post by Scott M

Post by Broadback
It was not because I thought the stock market of £ would go up or
down, it was simply that as my fore bearers fought German dominance
twice I was not willing to surrender to then now

Well done, another old person who doesn't care about the future, only
about clinging onto some weird notion of the good old days.
I bet you think Rover made good cars too.

Sadly not as good as Volks Vagon

Which is kinda the point. This idea that Britain is somehow better than
everyone else is demonstrable bollocks. We're in the decline stage of
empire and throwing away connections with powerful neighbours is a bad idea.

This idea that Germany is somehow better than everyone else is
demonstrable bollocks. They're in the decline stage of empire and
throwing away connections with powerful neighbours is a bad idea.

[Cursitor Doom]

Post by The Natural Philosopher
This idea that Germany is somehow better than everyone else is
demonstrable bollocks. They're in the decline stage of empire and
throwing away connections with powerful neighbours is a bad idea.

Puts me in mind of this song by Noel Coward which it seems appropriate to
quote at this time:


Don't let's be beastly to the Germans
When our victory is ultimately won,
It was just those nasty Nazis
Who persuaded them to fight,
And their Beethoven and Bach
Are really far worse than their bite!


Let's be meek to them
And turn the other cheek to them,
And try to bring out their latent sense of fun.
Let's give them full air parity
And treat the rats to charity
But don't let's be beastly to the Hun!


We must be kind,
And with an open mind
We must endevour to find a way
To let the German know that, when the war is over
They are not the ones who'll have to pay.


We must be sweet,
And tactful and discreet,
And when they've suffered defeat
We mustn't let them feel upset,
Or ever get the feeling
That we're cross with them or hate them,
Our future policy must be to reinstate them.


Don't let's be beastly to the Germans
When we've definitely got them on the run.
Let us treat them very kindly
As we would a valued friend;
We might send them some bishops
As a form of lease and lend.


Let's be sweet to them,
And day by day repeat to them
That sterilisation simply isn't done.
Let's help the dirty swine again
To occupy the Rhine again,
But don't let's be beastly to the Hun!


We must be just
And win their love and trust,
And in addition we must be wise,
And ask the conquered lands
To join our hands to aid them,
That would be a wonderful surprise!


For many years
They've been in floods of tears,
Because the poor little dears
Have been so wronged,
And only longed
To cheat the world,
Deplete the world,
And beat the world to blazes;
This is the moment when we ought to sing their praises!


Don't let's be beastly to the Germans,
For you can't deprive a gangster of his gun!
Though they've been a little naughty
To the Czechs and Poles and Dutch,
I don't suppose those countries
Really minded very much.


Let's be free with them
And share the BBC with them,
We mustn't prevent them basking in the sun.
Let's soften their defeat again
And build their blasted fleet again,
But don't let's be beastly to the Hun!


Don't let's be beastly to the Germans
When the age of peace and plenty has begun.
We must send them steel and oil and coal
And everything they need,
For their peaceable intentions
Can be always guaranteed!


Let's employ with them
A sort of "stength through joy" with them,
They're better than us at honest manly fun.
Let's let them feel they're swell again
And bomb us all to hell again,
But don't let's be beastly to the Hun!

[Tim Streater]

Post by Scott M

Post by Broadback

Post by Scott M

Post by Broadback
It was not because I thought the stock market of £ would go up or
down, it was simply that as my fore bearers fought German dominance
twice I was not willing to surrender to then now

Well done, another old person who doesn't care about the future, only
about clinging onto some weird notion of the good old days.
I bet you think Rover made good cars too.

Sadly not as good as Volks Vagon

Which is kinda the point. This idea that Britain is somehow better than
everyone else is demonstrable bollocks.

No one's ever said that. In fact, that we have seen off foreign
invaders and evolved a decent system of government and have the rule
of law is more down to good luck than anything else. But that doesn't
stop me being pleased that we have it.

Post by Scott M
We're in the decline stage of empire and throwing away connections
with powerful neighbours is a bad idea.

The EU may be powerful, or thinks it is, but it's also corrupt and
bullying. That sort of neighbour is worth having nothing more to do
with. Unlike the EU's constituent states, that is.

[Capitol]

Post by Tim Streater

Post by Scott M

Post by Broadback

Post by Scott M

Post by Broadback
It was not because I thought the stock market of £ would go up or
down, it was simply that as my fore bearers fought German dominance
twice I was not willing to surrender to then now

Well done, another old person who doesn't care about the future, only
about clinging onto some weird notion of the good old days.
I bet you think Rover made good cars too.

Sadly not as good as Volks Vagon

Which is kinda the point. This idea that Britain is somehow better
than everyone else is demonstrable bollocks.

No one's ever said that. In fact, that we have seen off foreign
invaders and evolved a decent system of government and have the rule
of law is more down to good luck than anything else. But that doesn't
stop me being pleased that we have it.

As Napoleon said, "give me soldiers who are lucky". Ringworld
anyone?

[Mike Tomlinson]

Post by Tim Streater
The EU may be powerful, or thinks it is, but it's also corrupt and
bullying.

Totally unlike Westminster, of course.

Power corrupts, etc.

[The Natural Philosopher]

Post by Mike Tomlinson

Post by Tim Streater
The EU may be powerful, or thinks it is, but it's also corrupt and
bullying.

Totally unlike Westminster, of course.
Power corrupts, etc.

But Westminster doesn't have absolute power and it is as we have seen,
accountable.
--
If you tell a lie big enough and keep repeating it, people will
eventually come to believe it. The lie can be maintained only for such
time as the State can shield the people from the political, economic
and/or military consequences of the lie. It thus becomes vitally
important for the State to use all of its powers to repress dissent, for
the truth is the mortal enemy of the lie, and thus by extension, the
truth is the greatest enemy of the State.

Joseph Goebbels

[Capitol]

Post by Scott M

Post by Broadback

Post by Scott M

Post by Broadback
It was not because I thought the stock market of £ would go up or
down, it was simply that as my fore bearers fought German dominance
twice I was not willing to surrender to then now

Well done, another old person who doesn't care about the future, only
about clinging onto some weird notion of the good old days.
I bet you think Rover made good cars too.

Sadly not as good as Volks Vagon

Which is kinda the point. This idea that Britain is somehow better
than everyone else is demonstrable bollocks. We're in the decline
stage of empire and throwing away connections with powerful neighbours
is a bad idea.

Oh god, a comedian!

[Richard]

Post by Scott M

Post by Broadback

Post by Scott M

Post by Broadback
It was not because I thought the stock market of £ would go up or
down, it was simply that as my fore bearers fought German dominance
twice I was not willing to surrender to then now

Well done, another old person who doesn't care about the future, only
about clinging onto some weird notion of the good old days.
I bet you think Rover made good cars too.

Sadly not as good as Volks Vagon

Which is kinda the point. This idea that Britain is somehow better than
everyone else is demonstrable bollocks. We're in the decline stage of
empire and throwing away connections with powerful neighbours is a bad idea.

Nothing stopping you emigrating, instead of being fucking grating.

[Cursitor Doom]

Post by Scott M
Which is kinda the point. This idea that Britain is somehow better than
everyone else is demonstrable bollocks. We're in the decline stage of
empire and throwing away connections with powerful neighbours is a bad idea.

You're obviously very young and stupid. But don't let it get you down. We
were all of us like you at one time. The important thing is to learn
throughout life. If we are wise, we learn from our mistakes. But if we
are wiser still, we learn from the mistakes of others, too. This is what
the older people who wisely voted Leave have done.

[The Natural Philosopher]

Post by Cursitor Doom

Post by Scott M
Which is kinda the point. This idea that Britain is somehow better than
everyone else is demonstrable bollocks. We're in the decline stage of
empire and throwing away connections with powerful neighbours is a bad idea.

You're obviously very young and stupid. But don't let it get you down. We
were all of us like you at one time. The important thing is to learn
throughout life. If we are wise, we learn from our mistakes. But if we
are wiser still, we learn from the mistakes of others, too. This is what
the older people who wisely voted Leave have done.

And like parents who drag their toddler kicking and screaming to his
first day at proper school, despite his wishes, we have introduced you
to a far far bigger world.

You will thank us in the end.

Time you grew up and left Merkels Kindergarten.

And realised the world is never how you want it, but always how it is,
and good education does not consist in filling your head full of fancy
notions about how it ought to be so some cunt of a politician can
promise it to you and get elected, but instead full of some of the more
successful strategies people have developed for dealing with Life, and
even having a bit of fun in the process.

[Jack Samuel]

Post by Scott M

Post by Broadback

Post by Scott M

Post by Broadback
It was not because I thought the stock market of £ would go up or
down, it was simply that as my fore bearers fought German dominance
twice I was not willing to surrender to then now

Well done, another old person who doesn't care about the future, only
about clinging onto some weird notion of the good old days.
I bet you think Rover made good cars too.

Sadly not as good as Volks Vagon

Which is kinda the point. This idea that Britain is somehow better than
everyone else is demonstrable bollocks. We're in the decline stage of
empire

Yes, but still do some things well like aircraft engines.

Post by Scott M
and throwing away connections with powerful neighbours is a bad idea.

Nothing is being thrown away, connections with powerful neighbours are
just being done differently. Trading with them as well as Britain ever has,
just not doing the completely freedom of movement of people with the
whole of europe anymore or sending them billions every year either.

[Mike Tomlinson]

Post by Scott M
Well done, another old person who doesn't care about the future

Aye.

<https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2016/jun/24/young-angry-eu-
referendum>

[Mike Tomlinson]

Post by Mike Tomlinson

Post by Scott M
Well done, another old person who doesn't care about the future

Aye.
<https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2016/jun/24/young-angry-eu-
referendum>

and

<http://www.theguardian.com/politics/2016/jun/24/meet-the-75-young-
people-who-voted-to-remain-in-eu>

[Dan S. MacAbre]

Post by Mike Tomlinson

Post by Scott M
Well done, another old person who doesn't care about the future

Aye.
<https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2016/jun/24/young-angry-eu-
referendum>

Just trying to push a wedge between the generations, as usual. I, and
my mother and father voted to remain - my nieces voted to leave. The UK
will adjust, and do just fine. I feel most sorry for the rest of europe.

[Chris Hogg]

Post by Dan S. MacAbre
I feel most sorry for the rest of europe.

LOL!

Britain votes Brexit; Continent cut off!

http://tinyurl.com/jeygpv9

[Cursitor Doom]

Post by Dan S. MacAbre
Just trying to push a wedge between the generations, as usual.

Exactly. Expect more of it!

Post by Dan S. MacAbre
I, and
my mother and father voted to remain - my nieces voted to leave. The UK
will adjust, and do just fine. I feel most sorry for the rest of europe.

I feel most sorry of all for the poor, hard-pressed German taxpayers who
will have to pick up the bill for the missing 437,000,000 euros a week.
Incredible as it seems, Merkel and her CDU party are the 'best hope'
these German Conservatives have. There are no other mainstream parties to
the Right - but a *huge* stinking mass of wrong 'uns to the Left!

[The Natural Philosopher]

Post by Cursitor Doom

Post by Dan S. MacAbre
Just trying to push a wedge between the generations, as usual.

Exactly. Expect more of it!

Post by Dan S. MacAbre
I, and
my mother and father voted to remain - my nieces voted to leave. The UK
will adjust, and do just fine. I feel most sorry for the rest of europe.

I feel most sorry of all for the poor, hard-pressed German taxpayers who
will have to pick up the bill for the missing 437,000,000 euros a week.
Incredible as it seems, Merkel and her CDU party are the 'best hope'
these German Conservatives have. There are no other mainstream parties to
the Right - but a *huge* stinking mass of wrong 'uns to the Left!

I think there is more to Germany and her politics than you know.

[The Natural Philosopher]

Post by Scott M

Post by Broadback
It was not because I thought the stock market of £ would go up or
down, it was simply that as my fore bearers fought German dominance
twice I was not willing to surrender to then now

Well done, another old person who doesn't care about the future, only
about clinging onto some weird notion of the good old days.
I bet you think Rover made good cars too.

ER no, more about not repeating some notion of the very had old days.

[Andrew]

Post by Scott M

Post by Broadback
It was not because I thought the stock market of £ would go up or
down, it was simply that as my fore bearers fought German dominance
twice I was not willing to surrender to then now

Well done, another old person who doesn't care about the future, only
about clinging onto some weird notion of the good old days.
I bet you think Rover made good cars too.

When BMW owned them, there was a chance that they might,
and that includes painting the bottom of doors, but the
workforce didn't want to co-operate, BMW walked away
and the Austin Rover workforce saw their jobs disappear.

This is the precise reason why Nissan employed *no* ex-
carworkers when they were building the Sunderland plant
and selecting staff for total retraining.

[The Natural Philosopher]

Post by Andrew

Post by Scott M

Post by Broadback
It was not because I thought the stock market of £ would go up or
down, it was simply that as my fore bearers fought German dominance
twice I was not willing to surrender to then now

Well done, another old person who doesn't care about the future, only
about clinging onto some weird notion of the good old days.
I bet you think Rover made good cars too.

When BMW owned them, there was a chance that they might,
and that includes painting the bottom of doors, but the
workforce didn't want to co-operate, BMW walked away
and the Austin Rover workforce saw their jobs disappear.

Destroyed by leftycunts, who blamed Thatcher.

Post by Andrew
This is the precise reason why Nissan employed *no* ex-
carworkers when they were building the Sunderland plant
and selecting staff for total retraining.

Exactly.

[Dave Plowman (News)]

Post by Andrew
When BMW owned them, there was a chance that they might,
and that includes painting the bottom of doors, but the
workforce didn't want to co-operate, BMW walked away
and the Austin Rover workforce saw their jobs disappear.

Thanks for confirming you're mad. Did you get your idea of facts from the
leave brigade?

[F]

Post by Scott M
Well done, another old person who doesn't care about the future, only
about clinging onto some weird notion of the good old days.

With age, comes experience.

[The Natural Philosopher]

Post by F

Post by Scott M
Well done, another old person who doesn't care about the future, only
about clinging onto some weird notion of the good old days.

With age, comes experience.

+1

All my life I've watched politicians lips move.

Mostly it is harmless nonsense, and few people care, and the world by
and large runs itself despite their blatherings.

Once every few generations though, they get out of hand, and we need to
take a stand.

The English democratic system acknowledges that there will, from time to
time, be this need. And so we have elections, and as careful balance of
law, parliament, and sovereign power of a monarch.

It's not ideal, but it prevents civil war. When some unelected bunch of
chancers takes over and starts to run the country for their benefit,
rather than the Queen's Subjects'.

In my life, there are two broad movements I will always be proud of
having taken part in.

Building the Internet, and helping leave, and probably destroy, the EU.

They are my gift to future generations.

Who may never understand why I did either.

So be it.

[Jim_S]

Post by Broadback
It was not because I thought the stock market of £ would go up or down,
it was simply that as my fore bearers fought German dominance twice I
was not willing to surrender to then now

'then now'. I take it your first language is not English!

[Richard]

Post by Jim_S

Post by Broadback
It was not because I thought the stock market of £ would go up or down,
it was simply that as my fore bearers fought German dominance twice I
was not willing to surrender to then now

'then now'. I take it your first language is not English!

If it isn't, your point is?

[Chris Hogg]

Post by Broadback
It was not because I thought the stock market of £ would go up or down,
it was simply that as my fore bearers fought German dominance twice I
was not willing to surrender to then now

IMO the arguments about immigration and economics were secondary
considerations. Important as they are, _the_ most important thing was
where the EU is heading, and did we want to be part of it. I didn't.

[Dave Plowman (News)]

Post by Chris Hogg

Post by Broadback
It was not because I thought the stock market of £ would go up or down,
it was simply that as my fore bearers fought German dominance twice I
was not willing to surrender to then now

IMO the arguments about immigration and economics were secondary
considerations. Important as they are, _the_ most important thing was
where the EU is heading, and did we want to be part of it. I didn't.

Well, if you like predicting the future, many aren't going to be happy
with the UK going down the pan.

[Capitol]

Post by Dave Plowman (News)

Post by Chris Hogg

Post by Broadback
It was not because I thought the stock market of £ would go up or down,
it was simply that as my fore bearers fought German dominance twice I
was not willing to surrender to then now

IMO the arguments about immigration and economics were secondary
considerations. Important as they are, _the_ most important thing was
where the EU is heading, and did we want to be part of it. I didn't.

Well, if you like predicting the future, many aren't going to be happy
with the UK going down the pan.

I do like an optimist!

[Richard]

Post by Dave Plowman (News)

Post by Chris Hogg

Post by Broadback
It was not because I thought the stock market of £ would go up or down,
it was simply that as my fore bearers fought German dominance twice I
was not willing to surrender to then now

IMO the arguments about immigration and economics were secondary
considerations. Important as they are, _the_ most important thing was
where the EU is heading, and did we want to be part of it. I didn't.

Well, if you like predicting the future, many aren't going to be happy
with the UK going down the pan.

At least you'll be ecstatic.

[Dave Plowman (News)]

Post by Richard

Post by Dave Plowman (News)

Post by Chris Hogg

Post by Broadback
It was not because I thought the stock market of £ would go up or down,
it was simply that as my fore bearers fought German dominance twice I
was not willing to surrender to then now

IMO the arguments about immigration and economics were secondary
considerations. Important as they are, _the_ most important thing was
where the EU is heading, and did we want to be part of it. I didn't.

Well, if you like predicting the future, many aren't going to be happy
with the UK going down the pan.

At least you'll be ecstatic.

That's the difference between me and you BREXIT loonies. I want my country
to do well for everybody who lives here. Not just a few at the expense of
the rest.

[Richard]

Post by Dave Plowman (News)

Post by Richard

Post by Dave Plowman (News)

Post by Chris Hogg

Post by Broadback
It was not because I thought the stock market of £ would go up or down,
it was simply that as my fore bearers fought German dominance twice I
was not willing to surrender to then now

IMO the arguments about immigration and economics were secondary
considerations. Important as they are, _the_ most important thing was
where the EU is heading, and did we want to be part of it. I didn't.

Well, if you like predicting the future, many aren't going to be happy
with the UK going down the pan.

At least you'll be ecstatic.

That's the difference between me and you BREXIT loonies. I want my country
to do well for everybody who lives here. Not just a few at the expense of
the rest.

OK. What are you actually doing to make the country do well for me?

[The Natural Philosopher]

Post by Richard

Post by Dave Plowman (News)

Post by Broadback

Post by Dave Plowman (News)

Post by Chris Hogg

Post by Broadback
It was not because I thought the stock market of £ would go up or down,
it was simply that as my fore bearers fought German dominance

twice I

Post by Dave Plowman (News)

Post by Chris Hogg

Post by Broadback
was not willing to surrender to then now

IMO the arguments about immigration and economics were secondary
considerations. Important as they are, _the_ most important thing was
where the EU is heading, and did we want to be part of it. I didn't.

Well, if you like predicting the future, many aren't going to be happy
with the UK going down the pan.

At least you'll be ecstatic.

That's the difference between me and you BREXIT loonies. I want my country
to do well for everybody who lives here. Not just a few at the expense of
the rest.

OK. What are you actually doing to make the country do well for me?

Fuck all. Remainiacs are elitists who only care about their narrow circle.

They don't work in chip shops in Burnley.

[Rod Speed]

Post by Dave Plowman (News)

Post by Richard

Post by Dave Plowman (News)

Post by Chris Hogg
IMO the arguments about immigration and economics were secondary
considerations. Important as they are, _the_ most important thing was
where the EU is heading, and did we want to be part of it. I didn't.

Well, if you like predicting the future, many aren't
going to be happy with the UK going down the pan.

At least you'll be ecstatic.

That's the difference between me and you BREXIT loonies.
I want my country to do well for everybody who lives here.

Not even possible.

Post by Dave Plowman (News)
Not just a few at the expense of the rest.

Usual leftycunt line/lie, comrade.

[Rod Speed]

Post by Dave Plowman (News)

Post by Chris Hogg

Post by Broadback
It was not because I thought the stock market of £ would go up or down,
it was simply that as my fore bearers fought German dominance twice I
was not willing to surrender to then now

IMO the arguments about immigration and economics were secondary
considerations. Important as they are, _the_ most important thing was
where the EU is heading, and did we want to be part of it. I didn't.

Well, if you like predicting the future, many aren't
going to be happy with the UK going down the pan.

It wont be going down any pan, you watch.

[Mike Tomlinson]

Post by Chris Hogg
the_ most important thing was
where the EU is heading, and did we want to be part of it

But now we're out, we have zero influence. And once Scotland, and NI,
and Gibraltar, secede, we'll have a rump of Little Englanders
brandishing their tridents (not the nukes) and STILL hankering after the
past with the joke that is BoJo at their helm.

Time to wake up and smell the coffee.

[Chris Hogg]

On Fri, 24 Jun 2016 18:26:15 +0100, Mike Tomlinson

Post by Mike Tomlinson

Post by Chris Hogg
the_ most important thing was
where the EU is heading, and did we want to be part of it

But now we're out, we have zero influence.

Cameron's little 'renegotiation' exercise showed just how much
influence we had _in_ it: none!

Post by Mike Tomlinson
And once Scotland, and NI, and Gibraltar, secede, we'll have a rump of Little Englanders
brandishing their tridents (not the nukes) and STILL hankering after the
past with the joke that is BoJo at their helm.

Scotland can't afford to secede (oil revenues fast going down the
pan), nor can NI (would we miss them if they did?), and if Gib does,
Spain'll be over the border faster than Putin into Crimea. Gib knows
that.

[The Natural Philosopher]

Post by Chris Hogg
On Fri, 24 Jun 2016 18:26:15 +0100, Mike Tomlinson

Post by Mike Tomlinson

Post by Chris Hogg
the_ most important thing was
where the EU is heading, and did we want to be part of it

But now we're out, we have zero influence.

Cameron's little 'renegotiation' exercise showed just how much
influence we had _in_ it: none!

Post by Mike Tomlinson
And once Scotland, and NI, and Gibraltar, secede, we'll have a rump of Little Englanders
brandishing their tridents (not the nukes) and STILL hankering after the
past with the joke that is BoJo at their helm.

Scotland can't afford to secede (oil revenues fast going down the
pan),

That may not stop them however.

Post by Chris Hogg
nor can NI (would we miss them if they did?),

Actually Sinn Fein is using it to promote the idea of a united ireland,
which, if they dont slaughter the Orangemen is probably fine with me

Actually, I am not sure if I care if they DO slaughter the Orangemen.

So long as we can still beat em at Rugby. And pop over for a saturday
night in Dublin..And they promise to take Geldof back.

.
and if Gib does,

Post by Chris Hogg
Spain'll be over the border faster than Putin into Crimea. Gib knows
that.

WE need to do as deal with Spain. They get the rick we get whats on it
and permanent right to have brits live there. Honor satisfied, business
as usual.

[Chris]

Scotland can't afford to secede (oil revenues fast going down the pan),

It would be nice if they went though, wouldn't it? After
all, a bunch of malcontent, whining benefit-junkies dragging the rest of
us down is an 'ally' we really don't need.

[Mike Tomlinson]

Post by Chris Hogg
Scotland can't afford to secede (oil revenues fast going down the
pan)

Sturgeon is playing a clever game. She realises Jockshire is a third
world shithole with dwindling North Sea oil revenues, so they only way
to survive is to get into Europe pronto where it can be kept afloat with
Euro funding, because the steady supply of revenue they get from
Westminster is going to dry up the moment a referendum for independence
succeeds.

Post by Chris Hogg
nor can NI (would we miss them if they did?),

Sinn Féin are gonna make the most of it while UK Govt is in disarray,
you can be sure of that. The sabre-rattling has already started. If I
lived in NI right now I'd be /very/ nervous, especially if I had kids
and a family.

Post by Chris Hogg
and if Gib does,
Spain'll be over the border faster than Putin into Crimea. Gib knows
that.

Gib should be Spanish anyway. And Argentina's welcome to the Falklands.

[Capitol]

Post by Mike Tomlinson

Post by Chris Hogg
the_ most important thing was
where the EU is heading, and did we want to be part of it

But now we're out, we have zero influence. And once Scotland, and NI,
and Gibraltar, secede, we'll have a rump of Little Englanders
brandishing their tridents (not the nukes) and STILL hankering after the
past with the joke that is BoJo at their helm.
Time to wake up and smell the coffee.

That's what many said when I went out on my own. It was the best
thing I ever did!

[Cursitor Doom]

Post by Mike Tomlinson

the_ most important thing was where the EU is heading, and did we want
to be part of it

But now we're out, we have zero influence.

You clearly weren't paying attention. We had zero influence anyway.
That's why Dave came back from visiting 27 countries, begging for a few
crumbs, with precisely *fuck all* to offer.

[Mike Tomlinson]

Post by Cursitor Doom
You clearly weren't paying attention. We had zero influence anyway.

So why were they so desperate for us to not fuck off?

[The Natural Philosopher]

Post by Mike Tomlinson

Post by Cursitor Doom
You clearly weren't paying attention. We had zero influence anyway.

So why were they so desperate for us to not fuck off?

Because they wanted £350m a week?
--
If you tell a lie big enough and keep repeating it, people will
eventually come to believe it. The lie can be maintained only for such
time as the State can shield the people from the political, economic
and/or military consequences of the lie. It thus becomes vitally
important for the State to use all of its powers to repress dissent, for
the truth is the mortal enemy of the lie, and thus by extension, the
truth is the greatest enemy of the State.

Joseph Goebbels

[Dave Plowman (News)]

Post by Mike Tomlinson

Post by Chris Hogg
the_ most important thing was
where the EU is heading, and did we want to be part of it

But now we're out, we have zero influence. And once Scotland, and NI,
and Gibraltar, secede, we'll have a rump of Little Englanders
brandishing their tridents (not the nukes) and STILL hankering after the
past with the joke that is BoJo at their helm.
Time to wake up and smell the coffee.

True. But at least they'll have got back control. Over where to plant the
turnips.

[T i m]

Post by Chris Hogg

Post by Broadback
It was not because I thought the stock market of £ would go up or down,
it was simply that as my fore bearers fought German dominance twice I
was not willing to surrender to then now

IMO the arguments about immigration and economics were secondary
considerations.

Really? Who were you speaking to about this and don't you have a TV?
*Every* politician said one of the main things people were discussing
with them was Immigration.

Post by Chris Hogg
Important as they are, _the_ most important thing was
where the EU is heading, and did we want to be part of it.

I don't know of anyone (outside the loon(s) here <g>) who mentioned
that.

Post by Chris Hogg
I didn't.

I don't think I'm stupid but neither am I 'politically aware'. I don't
read a paper (never have, so not 'biased' that way) but do watch and
listen to the news (all types / sources). I also talk to ordinary
people about it and take on board what they say, often including
'immigrants'.

The most expressive were those ranting about immigration, about the
hospitals being full of immigrants and not being able to get a doctors
appointment. The strange thing being I live near them and haven't
experienced any of that and nor have any of my friends or family?

Again, watching the TV news, most of the most vocal regarding
defending their position are saying things like 'The Germans ... ' and
wanting 'Britain to be Britain again'? I think they mean like it was
in 'their day' or some other long-forgotten time that many of us are
very pleased we have moved on / away from and can never, ever get back
to in any case.

I'm guessing they also want the raging inflation and unsustainable
wages that made (make) the UK uncompetitive around the world?

Cheers, T i m

[Chris Hogg]

Post by T i m

Post by Chris Hogg

Post by Broadback
It was not because I thought the stock market of £ would go up or down,
it was simply that as my fore bearers fought German dominance twice I
was not willing to surrender to then now

IMO the arguments about immigration and economics were secondary
considerations.

Really? Who were you speaking to about this and don't you have a TV?
*Every* politician said one of the main things people were discussing
with them was Immigration.

Secondary considerations to me.

Post by T i m

Post by Chris Hogg
Important as they are, _the_ most important thing was
where the EU is heading, and did we want to be part of it.

I don't know of anyone (outside the loon(s) here <g>) who mentioned
that.

Granted, the politicians and media were full of immigration and
economic arguments, but I wasn't particularly interested or influenced
by them. The financial arguments were more or less evenly balanced,
and it was all supposition anyway, and immigration isn't a problem in
these parts in the way it is elsewhere in the UK.

But I didn't want to end up part of the USE, a conglomeration of
states with widely differing economic maturities, governed
undemocratically by a bunch of bureaucrats in Brussels who were
un-elected and couldn't be voted out. And it's no good telling me that
we had an opt-out from that, because I don't believe those opt-outs
are robust or watertight, or wouldn't be sacrificed or negotiated away
by a future, pro-EU UK government.

[T i m]

Post by Chris Hogg

Post by T i m

Post by Chris Hogg

Post by Broadback
It was not because I thought the stock market of £ would go up or down,
it was simply that as my fore bearers fought German dominance twice I
was not willing to surrender to then now

IMO the arguments about immigration and economics were secondary
considerations.

Really? Who were you speaking to about this and don't you have a TV?
*Every* politician said one of the main things people were discussing
with them was Immigration.

Secondary considerations to me.

Yes, but you aren't all the voters Chris. ;-)

Post by Chris Hogg

Post by T i m

Post by Chris Hogg
Important as they are, _the_ most important thing was
where the EU is heading, and did we want to be part of it.

I don't know of anyone (outside the loon(s) here <g>) who mentioned
that.

Granted, the politicians and media were full of immigration and
economic arguments,

Not just them, the 'people on the street' they were talking to.

Post by Chris Hogg
but I wasn't particularly interested or influenced
by them.

No, you weren't but obviously millions were (they were telling us
themselves).

Post by Chris Hogg
The financial arguments were more or less evenly balanced,
and it was all supposition anyway,

Quite.

Post by Chris Hogg
and immigration isn't a problem in
these parts in the way it is elsewhere in the UK.

Ok.

Post by Chris Hogg
But I didn't want to end up part of the USE,

But when did this happen (for you) Chris as we have been part of this
same club for ~40 years now haven't we?

Post by Chris Hogg
a conglomeration of
states with widely differing economic maturities, governed
undemocratically by a bunch of bureaucrats in Brussels

But isn't that the same 'tired old line' that many drag out but isn't
actually the whole truth? Don't get me wrong, I know little of the
detail but I though I heard several people (on TV) who seemed to be
answering questions directly and calmly who were saying that in the
main, that simply wasn't true. Yes the 'bureaucrats' *processes* the
stuff but they do it on the behest of *us* (so all member states) and
we (all) have a veto on it (or a majority percentage thing).

Post by Chris Hogg
who were
un-elected and couldn't be voted out.

But don't we have MEP's. How do they get in? This seems to suggest
they are elected by each member state:

http://www.europarl.org.uk/en/your-meps.html

Post by Chris Hogg
And it's no good telling me that
we had an opt-out from that, because I don't believe those opt-outs
are robust or watertight, or wouldn't be sacrificed or negotiated away
by a future, pro-EU UK government.

Like I said, I don't know enough of the details to be able to confirm
or deny that.

All I do know is I can't think of anything that was unreasonable that
has affected me directly? Ok, I believe we have some coastal fishing
rights issues that I can't say I fully understand.<shrug>

Is there anything that has specifically affected you that you are 100%
sure has been introduced by 'Brussels' that wasn't instigated by any
of the member states and isn't for the good of everyone (at it's
heart)?

Cheers, T i m

[Chris Hogg]

Post by T i m
Is there anything that has specifically affected you that you are 100%
sure has been introduced by 'Brussels' that wasn't instigated by any
of the member states and isn't for the good of everyone (at it's
heart)?
Cheers, T i m

Several questions in there. Two points. As to affecting me personally,
the only thing I can immediately think of is the banning of certain
garden chemicals, sometimes in total or sometimes just for the
amateur, either because they are deemed harmful or because the mfrs
don't see any point in spending money putting a particular chemical
through the expensive testing programme to get it 'approved' by TPTB.
Soft soap is the classic example of the last, where it is apparently
illegal publicly to recommend a soft soap solution for spraying onto
greenfly or other insects, despite it having been done for centuries,
and despite the fact that soft soap doesn't harm anyone, and the ban
exists simply because there's no point in any manufacturer spending
money to prove that fact. It's a typical bureaucratic Brussels
approach.

I live in a rural and coastal area. The local farming and fishing
industries are forever complaining about EU regulations and
intervention. Whether the regulations are justified, I don't know,
and the UK fishing industry may be at least partly to blame for the
situation. IIRC when fish quotas were originally handed out, many UK
fishermen simply sold their quotas to Spanish fishermen, and then
complained that the Spanish were taking all the fish. But certainly
when we eventually joined the Common Market, we had to give up a lot
of our fishing rights to the Europeans as a price for joining. But see
http://tinyurl.com/hg4s4rj for a fuller history. But AIUI landlocked
EU countries with no fishing fleets have an equal say in who fishes
for what, where and how much, which is ridiculous. Cornwall voted
56.5% - 43.5% for Brexit, despite the fact that Cornwall receives a
lot of 'EU funding' (actually part of the cash the UK pays in and then
gets returned, so it's our money anyway). I saw a lot of 'Vote Leave'
notices around, but hardly any 'Vote Remain' ones. The strength of
feeling reflects my comments above.

And then there's the general principle. It's said by the Brexiteers
that 80% of our 'laws' (or perhaps it's 'regulations'), are made in
Brussels, and I don't think that has been challenged by the 'Remain'
campaign. Being a member of the EU also influences our legal decisions
through the European court of human rights (ECOHR). How closely the
ECOHR is tied to the EU I'm not sure, but the impression given is that
they're all part of the same bureaucracy. I just want us to make our
own laws and regulations, and for British courts and legal system to
be answerable ultimately to our own Parliament, where we have a fairly
direct say in what gets passed and what doesn't, rather than in
Brussels where if we have any say at all, it's heavily diluted and
outnumbered by the other EU members, all of which have different axes
to grind.

[Tim Streater]

Post by Chris Hogg
Soft soap is the classic example of the last, where it is apparently
illegal publicly to recommend a soft soap solution for spraying onto
greenfly or other insects, despite it having been done for centuries,
and despite the fact that soft soap doesn't harm anyone, and the ban
exists simply because there's no point in any manufacturer spending
money to prove that fact. It's a typical bureaucratic Brussels
approach.

It's a typical example our how our approach in this country to the law
differs from that in Continental Europe. Here, everything is legal
unless it is explicitly illegal. Over there, everything is banned until
the law permits it. And so soft soap is banned.

[michael adams]

Post by Chris Hogg

Post by T i m
Is there anything that has specifically affected you that you are 100%
sure has been introduced by 'Brussels' that wasn't instigated by any
of the member states and isn't for the good of everyone (at it's
heart)?
Cheers, T i m

Several questions in there. Two points. As to affecting me personally,
the only thing I can immediately think of is the banning of certain
garden chemicals, sometimes in total or sometimes just for the
amateur, either because they are deemed harmful or because the mfrs
don't see any point in spending money putting a particular chemical
through the expensive testing programme to get it 'approved' by TPTB.
Soft soap is the classic example of the last, where it is apparently
illegal publicly to recommend a soft soap solution for spraying onto
greenfly or other insects, despite it having been done for centuries,
and despite the fact that soft soap doesn't harm anyone, and the ban
exists simply because there's no point in any manufacturer spending
money to prove that fact. It's a typical bureaucratic Brussels
approach.
I live in a rural and coastal area. The local farming and fishing
industries are forever complaining about EU regulations and
intervention. Whether the regulations are justified, I don't know,
and the UK fishing industry may be at least partly to blame for the
situation. IIRC when fish quotas were originally handed out, many UK
fishermen simply sold their quotas to Spanish fishermen, and then
complained that the Spanish were taking all the fish. But certainly
when we eventually joined the Common Market, we had to give up a lot
of our fishing rights to the Europeans as a price for joining. But see
http://tinyurl.com/hg4s4rj for a fuller history. But AIUI landlocked
EU countries with no fishing fleets have an equal say in who fishes
for what, where and how much, which is ridiculous.

Even if they're large consumers of fish ? People who like
say a piece of cod on a Saturday, have no interest in the
depletion of cod stocks and its likely effect on the cost
of their Saturday dinner ?



Cornwall voted

Post by Chris Hogg
56.5% - 43.5% for Brexit, despite the fact that Cornwall receives a
lot of 'EU funding' (actually part of the cash the UK pays in and then
gets returned, so it's our money anyway). I saw a lot of 'Vote Leave'
notices around, but hardly any 'Vote Remain' ones. The strength of
feeling reflects my comments above.
And then there's the general principle. It's said by the Brexiteers
that 80% of our 'laws' (or perhaps it's 'regulations'), are made in
Brussels, and I don't think that has been challenged by the 'Remain'
campaign.

Indeed. But in many of these areas laws and regulations
would otherwise have needed to have been drafted by individual
goverments in any case. As is now going to have to be done
as we unravel from the EU. Which given the amount
of work which will be involved in terms of Parliamentary
sessions, makes it higly unlikely that very many will
be debated in full, or amended in any way.

Post by Chris Hogg
Being a member of the EU also influences our legal decisions
through the European court of human rights (ECOHR). How closely the
ECOHR is tied to the EU I'm not sure, but the impression given is that
they're all part of the same bureaucracy. I just want us to make our
own laws and regulations, and for British courts and legal system to
be answerable ultimately to our own Parliament,

A cynic might simply say Paliament and the Law simply serve the
interests of the prevailing Establishment of the day. And that
the degree to which a person believes Pariament and the Law to
be serving their interests will depend on how closely they share
Estabishment values. Or at least think they do.

Post by Chris Hogg
where we have a fairly
direct say in what gets passed and what doesn't, rather than in
Brussels where if we have any say at all, it's heavily diluted and
outnumbered by the other EU members, all of which have different axes
to grind.

The point about the EU - assuming our fellow Europeans aren't
all savages or barbarians - is that the European Establishment
is rather broader based than that in the UK, where most of the
most influential roles are filled by Old Etonians and ex-public
schoolboys generally.

Who as the outcome of the referendum amply demonstrated, don't really
have a clue as to how "ordinary voters" feel about topics such as
immigration. Old Etonian Cameron fully expected to win, while
judging by his appearance and demenour after the result Old Etonian
Boris Johnson had been fully expecting, indeed hoping to lose.
But by a sufficient margin to give him leverage in any future
bid for the leadership .

Not that I've got anything against Old Etonians or public school
educated people generally. They've been running this Country for
centuries and not neceesarily in their own intersts as such, but
out of a sense of duty. But any "ordinary" i.e non establishement
person who belives these people, this establishment is acting in
that persons particular interests, is IMO fooling themseves.


michael adams

...

[The Natural Philosopher]

Post by T i m
Is there anything that has specifically affected you that you are 100%
sure has been introduced by 'Brussels' that wasn't instigated by any
of the member states and isn't for the good of everyone (at it's
heart)?
Cheers, T i m

'Renewable' energy.


When I first set out to answer the question 'can renewables work' and
discovered that no, basically they couldn't and then looked at the chain
of influence that shoved windmills all over the place, it became clear
that although that leftycunt Miliband with no knowledge whatsoever had
gold plated the legislation renewable obligations cane from Brussels and
beyond, and there was no chance to stop renewable energy as long as we
obeyed EU rules.

I then looked at everybody who might have reasonably been able to object
about windfarms and solar panels, and every time I got to an
organisation - RSPB, WWF, conservation england, and the like, guess
what. They all were taking government and EU funding as were the greens.

There appeared to be a vast network of grants and subsidies all coming
from the taxpayer and all ending up in a narrow elites pockets, all
sanctioned by the EU and all justified by leftycunt ideology.

And the universities that supported climate change privately admitted to
being hamstrung as well, by EU and government funds.

It isn't just about the EU. That's why Brexit has sent ripples round the
world. Its about a global cartel of power and influence, that exerts
influence by buying politicians, buying academics, buying media outlets
and influence everywhere, and where it can't buy influence exerting what
influence it has to destroy the careers and livelihoods of anyone who
speaks out against it. And with that array of opinion forming people in
its grasp, it simply blankets the idiots with propaganda, leftists
ideology, and disinformation.

IN short its essentially totally corrupt. Whatever emotional narrative
achieves its purpose, it sells to the public. It talks morality, but has
none. It is all about power influence money and security for itself., It
is simply the way a global elite works,. And above all it has no
'noblesse oblige' It regards little people as plebs to be spat on.

It isn't a conspiracy, its just business done with no thought to the
humans it corrupts and destroys. Climate change isn't science. Its
marketing. Renewable energy doesn't generate electricity. It generates a
profitable narrative.

Socialism was bought years ago, from the very first time management paid
a union official to call a strike, to save paying wages to workers who
they couldn't give work to.

Al Gore bought the environmental movement with grants and subsidies, so
that his cartel of oil and gas interest could smash coal.


Everyone has been bought. Or threatened or silenced. And the EU was
perfect for it.

Buy the politicians, sell a wet dream to the plebs, and have the power
to protect whatever industries you want, and tax the plebs on any
morally justifiable excuse, and keep the cash yourself.

But they got lazy and sloppy. They thought controlling the media would
be enough to stop contrary messages getting to people, but the internet
they didnt see coming. And they misjudged ordinary plebs - after all
they had never bothered about Mrs Duffy before, why now? And they forgot
the golden rule of political power.

Noblesse oblige. If the plebs are getting NOTHING from you, they have
nothing to lose by getting rid of you.

If they have the means, and in the most politically sophisticated
country in the world, whose been playing this game longer than anyone,
they struck back..

The question is of course, will the elite win and suppress democracy
completely and forever? Or will they accept that they have a
responsibility to the people who build and run the world they want to
control?

I've always known people like that existed, and I've been high enough up
the tree to meet some of them, and been invited to join the club.

I declined.

Power and money isn't my bag.

Brexit is a massively global event. It is ultimately a struggle between
the little people and a soulless oligarchy.

What Marxism was supposed to be, but that was bought and added to the
marketing toolkit 50 years ago.

Marxism is now the tool of the people it was supposed to be against.

I think they will try to destroy Britain and British Politicians.

Farage has already been pushed aside by the Tory rump. Boris is probably
part of that elite.

The people will be whipped back into place to show what happens if
anyone dares go up againts them.

Or perhaps Europe will simply revolt against them. They are not
omnipotent, and they are pretty stupid in some ways. I am not sure
cameron didn't actually want to lose the game. Maybe a twinge of
conscience and patriotism

We will see.

[michael adams]

The question is of course, will the elite win and suppress democracy completely and
forever? Or will they accept that they have a responsibility to the people who build
and run the world they want to control?
I've always known people like that existed, and I've been high enough up the tree to
meet some of them, and been invited to join the club.
I declined.
Power and money isn't my bag.

So which was it. The Bilderburg Group, or the Illuminati ?


michael adams

...

[Steve Walker]

Post by T i m

Post by Chris Hogg

Post by Broadback
It was not because I thought the stock market of £ would go up or down,
it was simply that as my fore bearers fought German dominance twice I
was not willing to surrender to then now

IMO the arguments about immigration and economics were secondary
considerations.

Really? Who were you speaking to about this and don't you have a TV?
*Every* politician said one of the main things people were discussing
with them was Immigration.

Post by Chris Hogg
Important as they are, _the_ most important thing was
where the EU is heading, and did we want to be part of it.

I don't know of anyone (outside the loon(s) here <g>) who mentioned
that.

Post by Chris Hogg
I didn't.

I don't think I'm stupid but neither am I 'politically aware'. I don't
read a paper (never have, so not 'biased' that way) but do watch and
listen to the news (all types / sources). I also talk to ordinary
people about it and take on board what they say, often including
'immigrants'.
The most expressive were those ranting about immigration, about the
hospitals being full of immigrants and not being able to get a doctors
appointment. The strange thing being I live near them and haven't
experienced any of that and nor have any of my friends or family?

Neither have I with GPs and hospitals. However, schools are another matter.

We are 75 yards outside the catchment area for our local primary school
(the one whose area we are in is further away and a lot harder to
access), but we had no trouble getting our eldest son in, with 23
children in the class (26 places and 30 at a pinch). It is a church
school, that my wife and her sister attended, that is attached to the
church that my wife's parents attended, where their funerals took place,
where my wife and her sister were baptised, first confessed, first took
communion, were confirmed, that she has attended all her life, where we
were married and where our children were baptised. It is also attached
to the nursery that our children attended.

Just 3 years later, when his younger brother was due to start school, he
could not get a place, as there were 54 applicants for those 26 places.
Meanwhile the playground had filled with French, Spanish, Polish (and
other Eastern European) accents and languages.

It was of course impossible for my wife to get two children to school by
herself, at different schools, at the same time - I was unable to help
as I needed to be at work.

We had many months of stress and legal appeals before we managed to get
both into the same school.

This is the immigration problem, large, sudden population rises, that
the education authorities cannot plan nor cater for.

It will have an effect on GPs and hospitals too, but later, as the now
relatively young immigrant population ages.

[T i m]

On Fri, 24 Jun 2016 21:32:33 +0100, Steve Walker
<***@walker-family.me.uk> wrote:

<snip>

Post by Steve Walker

Post by T i m
The most expressive were those ranting about immigration, about the
hospitals being full of immigrants and not being able to get a doctors
appointment. The strange thing being I live near them and haven't
experienced any of that and nor have any of my friends or family?

Neither have I with GPs and hospitals. However, schools are another matter.

Ok.

Post by Steve Walker
We are 75 yards outside the catchment area for our local primary school
(the one whose area we are in is further away and a lot harder to
access), but we had no trouble getting our eldest son in, with 23
children in the class (26 places and 30 at a pinch).

Ok, not bad numbers.

Post by Steve Walker
It is a church
school, that my wife and her sister attended, that is attached to the
church that my wife's parents attended, where their funerals took place,
where my wife and her sister were baptised, first confessed, first took
communion, were confirmed, that she has attended all her life, where we
were married and where our children were baptised.

So, quite some 'connection' there then? ;-)

Post by Steve Walker
It is also attached
to the nursery that our children attended.

More! It sounds a similar picture to me and my childhood family where
my sister and I and then my daughter went to the same CoE Primary
school as my Mum. ;-)

Post by Steve Walker
Just 3 years later, when his younger brother was due to start school, he
could not get a place, as there were 54 applicants for those 26 places.

;-(

Post by Steve Walker
Meanwhile the playground had filled with French, Spanish, Polish (and
other Eastern European) accents and languages.

Ok, well the language / nationality thing sometimes isn't an issue,
especially where 'religion doesn't swamp what they are and do. I know
a Latvian lady who speaks pretty good English but it's always with a
Latvian accent. Her son on the other hand is bi-lingual and his spoken
English is perfectly normal. ;-)

The other thing that can be an issue (for the naturally English
speaking kids) is having to slow down to 'accommodate' those who are
trying to learn the subject *and* the language.

Post by Steve Walker
It was of course impossible for my wife to get two children to school by
herself, at different schools, at the same time - I was unable to help
as I needed to be at work.

Sounds a common issue these days. ;-(

Post by Steve Walker
We had many months of stress and legal appeals before we managed to get
both into the same school.

Glad you got there in the end.

Post by Steve Walker
This is the immigration problem, large, sudden population rises, that
the education authorities cannot plan nor cater for.

Understood. I believe this is accentuated when you get some
'Ghettoisation' as I'm guessing it's not unreasonable for 'outsiders'
to do (for support and 'community' etc). Just like we do in Spain and
with Fish and Chip shops. ;-)

The biggest issue round here is (now) 'London' people moving out (of
all nationalities) and bringing their London parking with them. Gone
are the days when we would respect the spaces outside our and other
neighbours houses. ;-(

Post by Steve Walker
It will have an effect on GPs and hospitals too, but later, as the now
relatively young immigrant population ages.

But as you reference above it's particularly the 'sudden' change in
the cultural mix, especially re the requirements of education that
creates a specific problem.

Should be some form of 'foreign language' prep-school that brings
these kids up to speed first so they can then be integrated into the
main stream system? One or two non native English speakers in a class
would probably be expected to 'keep up'. When a class is only 10%
English speaking I'm guessing they can't set a precedence?

Some round here 'complain that you 'don't here an English person' when
you go shopping but I'm pretty sure that's not the case and even if it
was, I don't care as long as everyone gets along and does their bit.
;-)

Cheers, T i m

[Steve Walker]

Post by T i m
On Fri, 24 Jun 2016 21:32:33 +0100, Steve Walker
<snip>

Post by Steve Walker

Post by T i m
The most expressive were those ranting about immigration, about the
hospitals being full of immigrants and not being able to get a doctors
appointment. The strange thing being I live near them and haven't
experienced any of that and nor have any of my friends or family?

Neither have I with GPs and hospitals. However, schools are another matter.

Ok.

Post by Steve Walker
We are 75 yards outside the catchment area for our local primary school
(the one whose area we are in is further away and a lot harder to
access), but we had no trouble getting our eldest son in, with 23
children in the class (26 places and 30 at a pinch).

Ok, not bad numbers.

Post by Steve Walker
It is a church
school, that my wife and her sister attended, that is attached to the
church that my wife's parents attended, where their funerals took place,
where my wife and her sister were baptised, first confessed, first took
communion, were confirmed, that she has attended all her life, where we
were married and where our children were baptised.

So, quite some 'connection' there then? ;-)

Post by Steve Walker
It is also attached
to the nursery that our children attended.

More! It sounds a similar picture to me and my childhood family where
my sister and I and then my daughter went to the same CoE Primary
school as my Mum. ;-)

Post by Steve Walker
Just 3 years later, when his younger brother was due to start school, he
could not get a place, as there were 54 applicants for those 26 places.

;-(

Post by Steve Walker
Meanwhile the playground had filled with French, Spanish, Polish (and
other Eastern European) accents and languages.

Ok, well the language / nationality thing sometimes isn't an issue,
especially where 'religion doesn't swamp what they are and do. I know
a Latvian lady who speaks pretty good English but it's always with a
Latvian accent. Her son on the other hand is bi-lingual and his spoken
English is perfectly normal. ;-)
The other thing that can be an issue (for the naturally English
speaking kids) is having to slow down to 'accommodate' those who are
trying to learn the subject *and* the language.

Post by Steve Walker
It was of course impossible for my wife to get two children to school by
herself, at different schools, at the same time - I was unable to help
as I needed to be at work.

Sounds a common issue these days. ;-(

Post by Steve Walker
We had many months of stress and legal appeals before we managed to get
both into the same school.

Glad you got there in the end.

Post by Steve Walker
This is the immigration problem, large, sudden population rises, that
the education authorities cannot plan nor cater for.

Understood. I believe this is accentuated when you get some
'Ghettoisation' as I'm guessing it's not unreasonable for 'outsiders'
to do (for support and 'community' etc). Just like we do in Spain and
with Fish and Chip shops. ;-)
The biggest issue round here is (now) 'London' people moving out (of
all nationalities) and bringing their London parking with them. Gone
are the days when we would respect the spaces outside our and other
neighbours houses. ;-(

Post by Steve Walker
It will have an effect on GPs and hospitals too, but later, as the now
relatively young immigrant population ages.

But as you reference above it's particularly the 'sudden' change in
the cultural mix, especially re the requirements of education that
creates a specific problem.
Should be some form of 'foreign language' prep-school that brings
these kids up to speed first so they can then be integrated into the
main stream system? One or two non native English speakers in a class
would probably be expected to 'keep up'. When a class is only 10%
English speaking I'm guessing they can't set a precedence?
Some round here 'complain that you 'don't here an English person' when
you go shopping but I'm pretty sure that's not the case and even if it
was, I don't care as long as everyone gets along and does their bit.
;-)
Cheers, T i m

I had no complaint at all about people speaking foreign languages or
changes in ethnic mix - almost all of the children spoke good English
anyway. The reference to language and accent was purely to point out
that the massive increase in potential pupils and the inability of
locals to get places was entirely down to a sudden influx from abroad,
as opposed to a sudden increase in the birthrate amongst locals a few
years earlier - which could have been spotted and plans possibly put in
place in time.

[T i m]

On Sat, 25 Jun 2016 01:10:05 +0100, Steve Walker
<***@walker-family.me.uk> wrote:

<snip>

Post by Steve Walker
I had no complaint at all about people speaking foreign languages or
changes in ethnic mix - almost all of the children spoke good English
anyway.

Understood and ok.

Post by Steve Walker
The reference to language and accent was purely to point out
that the massive increase in potential pupils and the inability of
locals to get places was entirely down to a sudden influx from abroad,

Ok ...

Post by Steve Walker
as opposed to a sudden increase in the birthrate amongst locals a few
years earlier - which could have been spotted and plans possibly put in
place in time.

Understood.

I was just reflecting and wondering what you thought might be a
solution for the future (for the next two+ years anyway <g> for
dealing larges batches of children coming into our education system.

If you suggest they all typically already speak good English (or good
enough that it wouldn't handicap their learning other subjects) then
maybe it's just a matter of having enough schools and teachers for
them all?

I wonder where we might find a good supply of trained teachers,
assuming we can't meet the needs locally? ;-)

Cheers, T i m

[DJC]

Post by T i m
I don't think I'm stupid but neither am I 'politically aware'. I don't
read a paper (never have, so not 'biased' that way) but do watch and
listen to the news (all types / sources). I also talk to ordinary
people about it and take on board what they say, often including
'immigrants'.

The impression I have from all the flannel you have written in this and
other threads is that you are. You somehow do not consider yourself
capable of making a decision and yet you are unable to accept the
decision of those who are prepared to make one. As if 'don't know' was
not only a valid view but had precedence over all others.

[T i m]

Post by DJC

Post by T i m
I don't think I'm stupid but neither am I 'politically aware'. I don't
read a paper (never have, so not 'biased' that way) but do watch and
listen to the news (all types / sources). I also talk to ordinary
people about it and take on board what they say, often including
'immigrants'.

The impression I have from all the flannel you have written in this and
other threads is that you are.

Awww, thanks for following me so closely.

Post by DJC
You somehow do not consider yourself
capable of making a decision

I can, given enough information, skill on the subject and interest and
in fact I think I just made one! <weg>

Post by DJC
and yet you are unable to accept the
decision of those who are prepared to make one.

Is that right (no it isn't).

Post by DJC
As if 'don't know' was
not only a valid view but had precedence over all others.

And that's what you took from all that reading eh. ;-(

No, I fully respect anyone who has made a real considered 'decision'
about something, even if it isn't what I would have done or what I
agree with. What I question (in a real-world practical sense) is the
logic of asking people to make what could be a very important
*decision* (not coin toss) without first giving them the facts or the
training to be able to fully understand and consider their re-action.

So, given that isn't what happens, I (personally, me) would prefer
there was an option on the ballot paper allowing people to be honest.
A NOTA or similar, that way they (we) won't feel pressureed into
making a 'decision' that just could tips the odds and do some real
damage. The governement would then get some feedback and then may re
offer the options or provide better information for people to work
with. Nothing will change while we all just go along with it (and
exactly what I understand the refurendum is all about to some).

So, they (the general public and their gran and in the local
elections) vote for the person with the friendly face or because they
like her dress, who opened the local supermarket, happen to mention
they will do something for some cause you happen to follow or you vote
the same (or opposite) to your parents / wife / brother or just always
vote 'Green'.

Of *course* there will be some who happen to be interested and follow
the whole political 'game', talk politics to their mates down the pub
(or at complete strangers) or at work ... but outside of things like
this referendum or the general elections they aren't representative of
the general public.

I had a good mate who retired and became interested in 'politics',
even standing for his chosen party in the local elections. From that
point on I lost him as a mate because I wasn't interested in politics
and that was all he then did. He is (was) the only person I know who
is into politics (IMHO).

However, in our democrasy that's how it works and if you are happy
with that then good for you. And you are right, I maked my paper NOTA
so I can't 'complain' that my 'wish' didn't come true ... but I didn't
have 'a wish' so how could it? I'm pretty sure for many it took no
more interest than picking the winner for the Grand National.

So I still don't know what the right choice was, something I think
I'll be sharing with most of the UK if not the world for a few years
(decades?) to come and I have as much right to discuss the pros and
cons as the next man.

Cheers, T i m

[Huge]

Post by DJC

Post by T i m
I don't think I'm stupid but neither am I 'politically aware'. I don't
read a paper (never have, so not 'biased' that way) but do watch and
listen to the news (all types / sources). I also talk to ordinary
people about it and take on board what they say, often including
'immigrants'.

The impression I have from all the flannel you have written in this and
other threads is that you are. You somehow do not consider yourself
capable of making a decision and yet you are unable to accept the
decision of those who are prepared to make one. As if 'don't know' was
not only a valid view but had precedence over all others.

He's a prime example of the Duning-Kruger Effect.

[Mike Tomlinson]

Post by Huge
He's a prime example of the Duning-Kruger Effect.

*scampers off to wikipedia*

Ooh, burn. :)

[The Natural Philosopher]

Post by Mike Tomlinson

Post by Huge
He's a prime example of the Duning-Kruger Effect.

*scampers off to wikipedia*
Ooh, burn. :)

Yes, and watching sky this morning, interviewing remainers, most of them
came into the 'I think I really am intelligent and educated, and this
was wrong wrong wrong' and then the leavers they deliberately selected
were 'I may be thick, but its my country'

There is no one easier to fool than someone who thinks they are smart,
but aren't.

Bullshit Baffles Brains.

[T i m]

On Sat, 25 Jun 2016 10:17:30 +0100, The Natural Philosopher

Post by The Natural Philosopher

Post by Mike Tomlinson

Post by Huge
He's a prime example of the Duning-Kruger Effect.

*scampers off to wikipedia*
Ooh, burn. :)

Yes, and watching sky this morning, interviewing remainers, most of them
came into the 'I think I really am intelligent and educated, and this
was wrong wrong wrong' and then the leavers they deliberately selected
were 'I may be thick, but its my country'
There is no one easier to fool than someone who thinks they are smart,
but aren't.
Bullshit Baffles Brains.

Aww bless, 3 of the classic 'footer message users' all equally
confused and because they are left brained, completely miss the entire
point (as usual).

Is it a 'triad of loons'?

Cheers, T i m

[Mike Tomlinson]

Post by DJC
The impression I have from all the flannel you have written in this and
other threads is that you are.

+1

[Dave Plowman (News)]

Post by T i m

Post by Chris Hogg
IMO the arguments about immigration and economics were secondary
considerations.

Really? Who were you speaking to about this and don't you have a TV?
*Every* politician said one of the main things people were discussing
with them was Immigration.

Absolutely. Immigration was worth about 10 points to the leave side. And
those who did think it the most important issue are going to be *very*
disappointed.

[T i m]

On Sat, 25 Jun 2016 01:39:21 +0100, "Dave Plowman (News)"

Post by Dave Plowman (News)

Post by T i m

Post by Chris Hogg
IMO the arguments about immigration and economics were secondary
considerations.

Really? Who were you speaking to about this and don't you have a TV?
*Every* politician said one of the main things people were discussing
with them was Immigration.

Absolutely. Immigration was worth about 10 points to the leave side. And
those who did think it the most important issue are going to be *very*
disappointed.

And that's my point ... people voting for something that they think is
going to happen when they were shown it wasn't, even before they
voted! ;-(

Nearly every headline grabbing 'fact' put up by either side was torn
down by an expert or respected Ex minister (often with no axe to
grind). Even if they weren't honest, the case they put up was often as
convincing as the ones put up by the opposition.

How was the average and open minded man/woman_on_the_street supposed
to pick the wheat from the chaff?

Answer, they (mostly) couldn't of course and how they then fell back
to one of the good old myths to pin their hat on.

Cheers, T i m

[Rod Speed]

Post by Dave Plowman (News)

Post by T i m

Post by Chris Hogg
IMO the arguments about immigration and
economics were secondary considerations.

Really? Who were you speaking to about this and don't
you have a TV? *Every* politician said one of the main
things people were discussing with them was Immigration.

Absolutely. Immigration was worth about 10 points to the leave side.

That number is straight from your arse, we can tell from the smell.

Post by Dave Plowman (News)
And those who did think it the most important
issue are going to be *very* disappointed.

Bet they wont be.

[JoeJoe]

Post by Chris Hogg

Post by Broadback
It was not because I thought the stock market of £ would go up or down,
it was simply that as my fore bearers fought German dominance twice I
was not willing to surrender to then now

IMO the arguments about immigration and economics were secondary
considerations. Important as they are, _the_ most important thing was
where the EU is heading, and did we want to be part of it. I didn't.

+1

[The Natural Philosopher]

Post by Broadback
It was not because I thought the stock market of £ would go up or down,
it was simply that as my fore bearers fought German dominance twice I
was not willing to surrender to then now

Ultimately in my case it was 'all power corrupts, absolute power
corrupts absolutely and the inability to sack them or affect policy in
the bastards and knowing they were making HUGE policy mistakes.

WE dont have, when we have left, any RENEWABLE OBLIGATIONS at all.

we can stop subsidising ALL renewable energy and fart in their general
direction.

Repealing the climate change act top priority

[T i m]

On Fri, 24 Jun 2016 19:32:08 +0100, The Natural Philosopher

Post by The Natural Philosopher

Post by Broadback
It was not because I thought the stock market of £ would go up or down,
it was simply that as my fore bearers fought German dominance twice I
was not willing to surrender to then now

Ultimately in my case it was 'all power corrupts, absolute power
corrupts absolutely and the inability to sack them or affect policy in
the bastards and knowing they were making HUGE policy mistakes.
WE dont have, when we have left, any RENEWABLE OBLIGATIONS at all.
we can stop subsidising ALL renewable energy and fart in their general
direction.
Repealing the climate change act top priority

And OOI, just how sure are you that *any* of that *will* be changed?

Cheers, T i m

[dennis@home]

Post by The Natural Philosopher

Post by Broadback
It was not because I thought the stock market of £ would go up or down,
it was simply that as my fore bearers fought German dominance twice I
was not willing to surrender to then now

Ultimately in my case it was 'all power corrupts, absolute power
corrupts absolutely and the inability to sack them or affect policy in
the bastards and knowing they were making HUGE policy mistakes.
WE dont have, when we have left, any RENEWABLE OBLIGATIONS at all.
we can stop subsidising ALL renewable energy and fart in their general
direction.
Repealing the climate change act top priority

What makes you think a UK government will do any of those things?

You thought Farage was going to put £350m a week into the NHS but he
isn't so I have no faith in your judgement and neither should you.

[The Natural Philosopher]

Post by ***@home

Post by The Natural Philosopher

Post by Broadback
It was not because I thought the stock market of £ would go up or down,
it was simply that as my fore bearers fought German dominance twice I
was not willing to surrender to then now

Ultimately in my case it was 'all power corrupts, absolute power
corrupts absolutely and the inability to sack them or affect policy in
the bastards and knowing they were making HUGE policy mistakes.
WE dont have, when we have left, any RENEWABLE OBLIGATIONS at all.
we can stop subsidising ALL renewable energy and fart in their general
direction.
Repealing the climate change act top priority

What makes you think a UK government will do any of those things?
You thought Farage was going to put £350m a week into the NHS but he
isn't so I have no faith in your judgement and neither should you.

Repeating a lie every post doesn't make it True Denise.

GO and have an aspirin and some hot Ovaltine and have a little lie down

[Chris Hogg]

Post by ***@home
You thought Farage was going to put £350m a week into the NHS

It was never my impression that the Brexit campaign, or Farage, said
that would happen. My recollection was that that sum could be
available for spending on the NHS, as indeed it could be, or anything
else we needed for that matter, but there was never any commitment or
promise. The 'promise' was the interpretation put on it by the Remain
campaign, who totally distorted the argument.

Having said that though, there's no doubt the Brexit side were wrong
in trying to pretend that the UK would be £350m a week better off.
There were distortions, exaggerations and lies on both sides.

[Mike Tomlinson]

Post by Chris Hogg
Having said that though, there's no doubt the Brexit side were wrong
in trying to pretend that the UK would be £350m a week better off.
There were distortions, exaggerations and lies on both sides.

OK, it's the Grauniad, but suspend prejudice for a moment:

<http://www.theguardian.com/politics/video/2016/jun/15/eu-referendum-
lies-myths-and-half-truths-video-explainer>

or http://tinyurl.com/hz4q6jp

[The Natural Philosopher]

Post by Mike Tomlinson

Post by Chris Hogg
Having said that though, there's no doubt the Brexit side were wrong
in trying to pretend that the UK would be £350m a week better off.
There were distortions, exaggerations and lies on both sides.

<http://www.theguardian.com/politics/video/2016/jun/15/eu-referendum-
lies-myths-and-half-truths-video-explainer>
or http://tinyurl.com/hz4q6jp

Dunno why that cunt warsi is in the leave camp. She never was.

[Chris Hogg]

On Sat, 25 Jun 2016 10:19:56 +0100, The Natural Philosopher

Post by The Natural Philosopher

Post by Mike Tomlinson

Post by Chris Hogg
Having said that though, there's no doubt the Brexit side were wrong
in trying to pretend that the UK would be £350m a week better off.
There were distortions, exaggerations and lies on both sides.

<http://www.theguardian.com/politics/video/2016/jun/15/eu-referendum-
lies-myths-and-half-truths-video-explainer>
or http://tinyurl.com/hz4q6jp

Dunno why that cunt warsi is in the leave camp. She never was.

Nor do I understand why she changed sides. Both sides were telling
porkies. Surely she could have assessed the fundamentals for herself,
irrespective of the superficial spin put out by either side, and made
a judgement on those fundamentals rather than jumping ship just
because she didn't like what was being said. Seems rather shallow to
me.

[The Natural Philosopher]

Post by Chris Hogg
On Sat, 25 Jun 2016 10:19:56 +0100, The Natural Philosopher

Post by The Natural Philosopher

Post by Mike Tomlinson

Post by Chris Hogg
Having said that though, there's no doubt the Brexit side were wrong
in trying to pretend that the UK would be £350m a week better off.
There were distortions, exaggerations and lies on both sides.

<http://www.theguardian.com/politics/video/2016/jun/15/eu-referendum-
lies-myths-and-half-truths-video-explainer>
or http://tinyurl.com/hz4q6jp

Dunno why that cunt warsi is in the leave camp. She never was.

Nor do I understand why she changed sides. Both sides were telling
porkies. Surely she could have assessed the fundamentals for herself,
irrespective of the superficial spin put out by either side, and made
a judgement on those fundamentals rather than jumping ship just
because she didn't like what was being said. Seems rather shallow to
me.

You expect someone with her background to even understand what 'social
conscience' means?


She's just another puppet, and she jumped when she was told, to try and
get a few percent of the Asian vote.

She was always in remain, so when she 'changed sides' it was a
meaningless headline. A PR stunt

[Tim Streater]

Post by ***@home

Post by The Natural Philosopher

Post by Broadback
It was not because I thought the stock market of £ would go up or down,
it was simply that as my fore bearers fought German dominance twice I
was not willing to surrender to then now

Ultimately in my case it was 'all power corrupts, absolute power
corrupts absolutely and the inability to sack them or affect policy in
the bastards and knowing they were making HUGE policy mistakes.
WE dont have, when we have left, any RENEWABLE OBLIGATIONS at all.
we can stop subsidising ALL renewable energy and fart in their general
direction.
Repealing the climate change act top priority

What makes you think a UK government will do any of those things?
You thought Farage was going to put £350m a week into the NHS but he
isn't so I have no faith in your judgement and neither should you.

Oh, was Farage going to do that? In government is he Den? Did I miss
something there?

[Dave Liquorice]

Post by The Natural Philosopher
Ultimately in my case it was 'all power corrupts, absolute power
corrupts absolutely and the inability to sack them or affect policy in
the bastards and knowing they were making HUGE policy mistakes.

And you *REALLY* think anything is going to change? It's big kick up
the arse of Brussels and it may be a kick that starts some form of
"reform". That is other countries will want to break or loosen the
shackles, the sore arses sat on the gravy train won't have much
choice but to reliquish some control, they'll deperately want to stay
on the gravy train. They'll swap seats, change the seat back labels
and those over the doors. Leading to a "reformed" Europe of states
that share common standards but have more control. Borders will come
back, but that doesn't prevent legitimate movement or trade.

Mean while the UK flounders about outside, finds that being such a
piddling market the rest of the world isn't particularly interested
in trade agreements (two way things, what do we make that will
sell?). Notices that Europe has "reformed", tweaks the existing
agreements and never bothers invoking Article 50.

[The Natural Philosopher]

Post by Dave Liquorice

Post by The Natural Philosopher
Ultimately in my case it was 'all power corrupts, absolute power
corrupts absolutely and the inability to sack them or affect policy in
the bastards and knowing they were making HUGE policy mistakes.

And you *REALLY* think anything is going to change? It's big kick up
the arse of Brussels and it may be a kick that starts some form of
"reform". That is other countries will want to break or loosen the
shackles, the sore arses sat on the gravy train won't have much
choice but to reliquish some control, they'll deperately want to stay
on the gravy train. They'll swap seats, change the seat back labels
and those over the doors. Leading to a "reformed" Europe of states
that share common standards but have more control. Borders will come
back, but that doesn't prevent legitimate movement or trade.
Mean while the UK flounders about outside, finds that being such a
piddling market the rest of the world isn't particularly interested
in trade agreements (two way things, what do we make that will
sell?). Notices that Europe has "reformed", tweaks the existing
agreements and never bothers invoking Article 50.

That is such utter piffle that I am not even going to respond. I dunno
what planet you are on, but I hope you never have to come to this one

[Jack Samuel]

Post by Dave Liquorice

Post by The Natural Philosopher
Ultimately in my case it was 'all power corrupts, absolute power
corrupts absolutely and the inability to sack them or affect policy in
the bastards and knowing they were making HUGE policy mistakes.

And you *REALLY* think anything is going to change? It's big kick up
the arse of Brussels and it may be a kick that starts some form of
"reform". That is other countries will want to break or loosen the
shackles, the sore arses sat on the gravy train won't have much
choice but to reliquish some control, they'll deperately want to stay
on the gravy train. They'll swap seats, change the seat back labels
and those over the doors. Leading to a "reformed" Europe of states
that share common standards but have more control. Borders will come
back, but that doesn't prevent legitimate movement or trade.
Mean while the UK flounders about outside, finds that being such a
piddling market the rest of the world isn't particularly interested
in trade agreements (two way things, what do we make that will
sell?). Notices that Europe has "reformed", tweaks the existing
agreements and never bothers invoking Article 50.

And suffers the wrath of the voter at the next election
if they try that and see UKIP end up in govt.

[Tim Streater]

... absolute power corrupts absolutely ...

+1

The EU was certainly showing the classic signs of this.

To me the important thing was exemplified by Benn's five questions (see
link below for how these relate to power in the EU). These are:

1) What Power Have You Got?

2) Where Did You Get It From?

3) In whose interests do you exercise it?

4) To Whom are you Accountable?

5) How do we get rid of you?

<https://thebrexitdoor.com/2016/04/25/richard-corbett-and-benns-5-questi
ons/>

That no part of the EU power structure would be able to respond
democratically to those five questions is why I voted Leave.

[Chris]

Post by The Natural Philosopher
Repealing the climate change act top priority

I'd have thought stopping that massive Direct Debit should come first!

[Mike Tomlinson]

Post by Chris
I'd have thought stopping that massive Direct Debit should come first!

You mean the one we get a massive rebate on?

[Andrew]

Post by Broadback
It was not because I thought the stock market of £ would go up or down,
it was simply that as my fore bearers fought German dominance twice I
was not willing to surrender to then now

Well Britain was instrumental in creating the new (West) German
democracy (and meritocracy) out of the ruins of Nazi Germany.

[The Natural Philosopher]

Post by Andrew

Post by Broadback
It was not because I thought the stock market of £ would go up or down,
it was simply that as my fore bearers fought German dominance twice I
was not willing to surrender to then now

Well Britain was instrumental in creating the new (West) German
democracy (and meritocracy) out of the ruins of Nazi Germany.

Which led to its spectacular success. The ARMY designed new germany.
Once the polit8cains took over it started to go downhill.

[Jack Samuel]

Post by Andrew

Post by Broadback
It was not because I thought the stock market of £ would go up or down,
it was simply that as my fore bearers fought German dominance twice I
was not willing to surrender to then now

Well Britain was instrumental in creating the new (West) German
democracy (and meritocracy) out of the ruins of Nazi Germany.

Actually, the US was. Same with Japan.

[The Natural Philosopher]

Post by Jack Samuel

Post by Andrew

Post by Broadback
It was not because I thought the stock market of £ would go up or down,
it was simply that as my fore bearers fought German dominance twice I
was not willing to surrender to then now

Well Britain was instrumental in creating the new (West) German
democracy (and meritocracy) out of the ruins of Nazi Germany.

Actually, the US was. Same with Japan.

joint effort.

[Jack Samuel]

It was not because I thought the stock market of £ would go up or down, it
was simply that as my fore bearers fought German dominance twice

And ended with kraut kings and queens.

I was not willing to surrender to then now

It would have been nothing even remotely like surrender to stay in the EU.

[Archibald Tarquin Blenkinsopp]

Post by Jack Samuel

It was not because I thought the stock market of £ would go up or down, it
was simply that as my fore bearers fought German dominance twice

And ended with kraut kings and queens.

I was not willing to surrender to then now

It would have been nothing even remotely like surrender to stay in the EU.

Have you forgotten the "straight banana" mess so soon?

At last Britain will be great again, chomping away at curved and
twisted bananas in total defiance of johnny Foreigner.

It is a pity the EU didn't stop RS Components from selling Weidmuller
terminals in AWG though. Methinks if they were made to stick to mm,
the Brexit wouldn't have happened!

AB

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[Adrian]

Post by Archibald Tarquin Blenkinsopp
Have you forgotten the "straight banana" mess so soon?

Which was, of course, a total and utter fabrication.

[The Natural Philosopher]

Post by Adrian

Post by Archibald Tarquin Blenkinsopp
Have you forgotten the "straight banana" mess so soon?

Which was, of course, a total and utter fabrication.

We are allowed one, to compete with the 10001 from the remainiacs,
aren't we?

[Jack Samuel]

Post by Archibald Tarquin Blenkinsopp

Post by Jack Samuel

It was not because I thought the stock market of £ would go up or down, it
was simply that as my fore bearers fought German dominance twice

And ended with kraut kings and queens.

I was not willing to surrender to then now

It would have been nothing even remotely like surrender to stay in the EU.

Have you forgotten the "straight banana" mess so soon?

That was always a lie.

Post by Archibald Tarquin Blenkinsopp
At last Britain will be great again, chomping away at curved and
twisted bananas in total defiance of johnny Foreigner.
It is a pity the EU didn't stop RS Components from selling Weidmuller
terminals in AWG though. Methinks if they were made to stick to mm,
the Brexit wouldn't have happened!

Sieg Heil.

[The Natural Philosopher]

Post by Jack Samuel

Post by Broadback
It was not because I thought the stock market of £ would go up or
down, it was simply that as my fore bearers fought German dominance twice

And ended with kraut kings and queens.

Post by Broadback
I was not willing to surrender to then now

It would have been nothing even remotely like surrender to stay in the EU.

No, its more like capitulation and ethnic cleansing

[Jack Samuel]

Post by The Natural Philosopher

Post by Jack Samuel

Post by Broadback
It was not because I thought the stock market of £ would go up or
down, it was simply that as my fore bearers fought German dominance twice

And ended with kraut kings and queens.

Post by Broadback
I was not willing to surrender to then now

It would have been nothing even remotely like surrender to stay in the EU.

No, its more like capitulation and ethnic cleansing

Even sillier than you usually manage with
all those wogs pouring into the country.

[Tim Streater]

Post by Jack Samuel

Post by The Natural Philosopher

Post by Jack Samuel

Post by Broadback
It was not because I thought the stock market of £ would go up or
down, it was simply that as my fore bearers fought German dominance twice

And ended with kraut kings and queens.

Post by Broadback
I was not willing to surrender to then now

It would have been nothing even remotely like surrender to stay in the EU.

No, its more like capitulation and ethnic cleansing

Even sillier than you usually manage with
all those wogs pouring into the country.

Woddles alert.